Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Jim Hoak on December 11, 2014, 05:47:45 PM
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As I read the thread on Teeth of the Dog, there seemed to be a thought that paspalum grass on the course was a negative thing. I have played several paspalum courses recently--mainly in Hawaii. I saw some drawbacks to the way the ball sat up, but I was impressed with their ability to use less water--and/or use water that was minimally treated. With water shortages being probably the biggest threat to golf, paspalum or other similar varieties may be the future. I understand that a colder-weather form of paspalum is being developed. And, although maybe not totally relevant, I believe paspalum was developed in part with an USGA grant and a royalty is paid to the USGA on all seed sold.
I am curious what others think as to the pros and cons or paspalum as to playability.
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I recently played in the invitational at The Sanctuary on Sanibel Island. The course is 100% paspalum (or so I was told). I thought the performance of the grass was superb, in particular, the greens which ran at 12 with little grain effect. We need to support the use of these grasses for the future.
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Jim,
Not an expert on paspalm but I beleive the majority of the quality hybrids are propograted by stolens not seeds. Without a doubt there are a lot of positives favoring the pasplams compared to the conventional grasses that we have been exposed to in the last forty years. I think it has its place in the market but I think we will see more Zoysia strains coming into the market and dominating. It really is tough as a leather boot and requires less chemical and can also handle the salts. The drawback is they will run at speeds of twelve and up only when dormant or semi dormant. At one time the industry took the, tougher is better road in golf design and we all now realize that was a mistake. Hopefully the same thing will happen with green speeds and if it does we will probably see an explosión in the Zoysia hybrids. The other possibility is that supers or breeder figure a way to get them running faster on actively growing putting surfaces. Do we really need speed over ten? We meaning the average golfer. It is my understanding they do quite well on push up greens..another plus!
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We used platinum paspalum for fairways on sand in China. Some of the things we found watching it grow in were: Its really easy to burn in mow lines/stripes, and it is almost impossible to keep up with the thatch.
However, I tend to agree with Randy and am pro-Zoysia. We had some type of Matrella Zoysia roughs, and wish that was the main playing surface instead... The biggest drawback is it takes a very long time to grow in, which would not have been good in tropical china.
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Does zoysia have the same ability to irrigate with brackish water? That is the major advantage of paspalum as I understand it.
A course--like many in Hawaii--where all the grass--fairways, rough, tees, greens--is paspalum, basically can irrigate with impure water, which almost acts as its own herbicide, killing unwanted weeds and grasses.
At least that is what I understand, although I'm talking beyond my level of competence.
But I'm mainly interested in the drawbacks of playability of paspalum.
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Yes, they are now finding that some of the zoysias hybrids have just as much salt tolerance. The plant needs to be introduced to the salts gradually and it adapts which is the case of with both grasses.
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Just quickly before we get the staff started for the day-When talking about paspalum grass, especially when using it to replace bermudagrass. Fungicides. Fungicides need to be sprayed to keep it looking "pretty" and spripped up. This isn't really the case on bermudagrass. These application can cost several thousand dollars on a 3-4 week rotation. Also a VERY good quality of cut. If that reel and bedknife are not as sharp as can be, one will see some serious leave damage for quite some time.
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But I'm mainly interested in the drawbacks of playability of paspalum.
j
I think pasapalum is a little sticky whenever I've played it and don't think it allows for the best ground game options around the greens.
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I agree shots short of the green 'got stuck'. I don't find this a major negative as 'right or wrong' most Florida courses are designed to be played through the air. We need to embrace grasses that reduce water useage.
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Under proper management paspalum can be made to produce fast, tight surfaces whilst also using less fertiliser and water than bermuda. However, when managed similarly to bermuda (as it so often is) it is easy for paspalum to become slow, sticky and soft as many people have experienced.
Disease is a big issue, with the cost of fungicides no doubt wiping out any money saved through using less fert and water.
It is bizarre that paspalum is marketed as an 'environmental turfgrass' when Zoysia betters paspalum in almost every regard from inputs to disease resistance to invasion from other species.
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I think the major rationale for paspalum is where fresh water supplies are severely restricted as paspalum survives with salt water irrigation. This should make it much prevalent down the road when water supplies become even more a problem.
My only experience playing on paspalum was at Forrest Richardson's very fun Links at Las Palomas at Puerto Penasco, Mexico, on the northern shore of the Sea of Cortez. The playing surface was fine, fast, firm and very tight.
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My only experience, that I know of, with this grass was at May River in a warm up round for the Dixie Cup. It rendered all short game game options into pitches as any attempts at chipping the ball were velcroized. Didn't care for it as a playing surface. If it can be maintained to produce a surface like Bill McBride reports, then I'd only be too happy to try it again especially as it thrives on salt water.
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I think the major rationale for paspalum is where fresh water supplies are severely restricted as paspalum survives with salt water irrigation. This should make it much prevalent down the road when water supplies become even more a problem.
My only experience playing on paspalum was at Forrest Richardson's very fun Links at Las Palomas at Puerto Penasco, Mexico, on the northern shore of the Sea of Cortez. The playing surface was fine, fast, firm and very tight.
But it was also dormant, Bill. Was the same when I was there. Things can be rather different when the grass is growing.
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In my limited experience, and from talking to superintendents, paspalum does not quite live up to the promise of its press releases. [In fact, many discussions on this web site about turf grass are full of press-release claims that haven't stood up in the field.] For one thing, not even paspalum can take high salt levels on a full-time basis; you still need a lot of fresh water reserve for it. And, as Anthony alluded, it's an expensive grass to maintain in fine condition ... that's why the turf grass powers that be have endorsed it.
I am sure that in the right hands, paspalum can work wonders. So can bermuda, zoysia, and other options. It's not a miracle cure for golf, but it will likely continue to play a bigger role going forward.
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My only experience, that I know of, with this grass was at May River in a warm up round for the Dixie Cup. It rendered all short game game options into pitches as any attempts at chipping the ball were velcroized. Didn't care for it as a playing surface. If it can be maintained to produce a surface like Bill McBride reports, then I'd only be too happy to try it again especially as it thrives on salt water.
I'm not an expert on Paspalum, but I'm sure it doesn't thrive on salt water, it will only tolerate it to a certain degree. The grow-in needs fresh water, and once established it can stand a lot of salt - for a turfgrass - but if you used only seawater continuously I don't think you'd be left with much of a surface.
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Steve,
Thrive was a poor choice of words on my part. Tolerate is clearly what was implied and what you rightly pointed out.
Regards,
Steve
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I think the major rationale for paspalum is where fresh water supplies are severely restricted as paspalum survives with salt water irrigation. This should make it much prevalent down the road when water supplies become even more a problem.
My only experience playing on paspalum was at Forrest Richardson's very fun Links at Las Palomas at Puerto Penasco, Mexico, on the northern shore of the Sea of Cortez. The playing surface was fine, fast, firm and very tight.
But it was also dormant, Bill. Was the same when I was there. Things can be rather different when the grass is growing.
Hah, I was sure I was the only GCAer who has been to Rocky Point! It's a little out of the way. How about that 11th hole? :o
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With this grass, it is important to remember that its natural growing environment is tidal swamps, and seashore paspalum dies and is replaced by other plants (see this research http://dx.doi.org/10.1614/WS-08-124.1) unless it is given intensive maintenance.
That means seashore paspalum as a golf course turf requires more inputs than other grasses, and as a consequence it generally is more expensive to maintain.
This photo shows what used to be seashore paspalum. The paspalum remains at left, where irrigation was supplied. At right, irrigation was withheld for a few months during the Thailand dry season. The paspalum is gone, replaced by bermudagrass.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3455/3754710428_639228438f_z.jpg?zz=1) (https://flic.kr/p/6HMSAG)bermuda overtake paspalum (https://flic.kr/p/6HMSAG) by Asian Turfgrass Center (https://www.flickr.com/people/33876864@N03/), on Flickr
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I have learned to keep my mouth shut where the behaviour of warm season turf grasses is concerned... Micah has forgotten far more than I will ever know!
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My only experience, that I know of, with this grass was at May River in a warm up round for the Dixie Cup. It rendered all short game game options into pitches as any attempts at chipping the ball were velcroized. Didn't care for it as a playing surface. If it can be maintained to produce a surface like Bill McBride reports, then I'd only be too happy to try it again especially as it thrives on salt water.
I'm not an expert on Paspalum, but I'm sure it doesn't thrive on salt water, it will only tolerate it to a certain degree. The grow-in needs fresh water, and once established it can stand a lot of salt - for a turfgrass - but if you used only seawater continuously I don't think you'd be left with much of a surface.
You have to flush it regularly with fresh water, according to the director of golf at Las Palomas, but the primary irrigation is saltwater.
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My only experience, that I know of, with this grass was at May River in a warm up round for the Dixie Cup. It rendered all short game game options into pitches as any attempts at chipping the ball were velcroized. Didn't care for it as a playing surface. If it can be maintained to produce a surface like Bill McBride reports, then I'd only be too happy to try it again especially as it thrives on salt water.
I'm not an expert on Paspalum, but I'm sure it doesn't thrive on salt water, it will only tolerate it to a certain degree. The grow-in needs fresh water, and once established it can stand a lot of salt - for a turfgrass - but if you used only seawater continuously I don't think you'd be left with much of a surface.
You have to flush it regularly with fresh water, according to the director of golf at Las Palomas, but the primary irrigation is saltwater.
Paspalum needs to be flushed with fresh water. It also needs to be grown in with fresh water. (Ideally) Once established, normal irrigation cycles with brackish or saltwater will work. Still need flushings and have to have the proper amendments applied to pull the salt through.
As a whole, paspalum can be very expensive to maintain.
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May River used this grass and it is very sticky around the greens; maybe with continual practice one can get the feel but I pride myself on my ground game skills and I have yet to play it enough for it to be fun to play this way.
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Forgot to mention about how the insects love paspalum. Mole crickets and army-cut worms. Down herein the DR we see a lot of dollar spot appear within the winter months. Due to the lack of sunlight and more rain. But we have found out that we just raise our nitrogen levels just a tad and make sure we have enough movement of air within the surface.