Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Patrick_Mucci on October 18, 2014, 01:34:09 AM
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the idea of concept holes ?
Holes that reflect some of the principles inherent in the template holes ?
Holes, to coin a phrase from Euclidian Geometry, that are similar, but, not congruent to the template holes.
Not long ago I played Old Macdonald with some friends, and everyone walked away incredibly high on the golf course.
Some stated that if they returned to Bandon, they'd play Old Macdonald to the exclusion of the others.
The idea of marrying the template concepts with the unique terrain seemed to produce an incredibly enjoyable, fun, yet challenging golf course. One that could be enjoyed by every level of golfer.
Some of the fellows I played with, had no understanding of the templates or concept holes, yet, they thoroughly enjoyed their golfing experience at Old Macdonald.
Old Macdonald passed my critical test.
Did I want to go straight from the 18th green to the 1st tee.
I did, and so did the fellows in my group, but, we had a plane to catch and the tee sheet was full.
The day was ideal, sunny and warm, with a nice breeze.
I'm now looking forward to the day when I introduce my son to Old Macdonald.
I loved everything about it.
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Pat, I'd be real interested to see your top 25 courses list. Have you ever posted it? Will you?
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That's well said, Pat. And as a lover of all things template, I of course agree.
I had the exact same experience when I took a buddy of mine to a few Macdonald/Raynor courses here on the east coast. He had no idea that we were playing Macdonald templates, but he loved the golf courses and had a blast.
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Pat:
I'm glad you really liked Old Macdonald. But,
Are not the other three courses at Bandon exhibits A, B, and C for NOT just sticking to concept holes?
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Pat,
Glad you "got" it. Not everyone does. Personally, I was blown away by Old Mac. It's currently my favorite at the resort and favorite Doak. I get the feeling that since it was essentially a tribute course and not purely a solo effort Tom may be a bit reluctant to admit publicly just how good it is lest it take a bit of luster away from his other work in the public's eye. But it is that good IMO. Given 10 rounds on property I'd go 4 OM, 3 PD, 2 BT, 1 BD. It's really an updating and reinterpreting of the templates with today's aesthetic of tie-ins and no hard edges with what would appear a somewhat difficult routing. Getting back to the ocean at 7 forced some severe ground into play, but it worked out brilliantly. Really a high point for Tom and Jim IMO. If anything it's underrated given the stiff local competition.
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Are not the other three courses at Bandon exhibits A, B, and C for NOT just sticking to concept holes?
Tom, if you had not gotten the mandate to build concept holes, I wonder what kind of course you might have designed on that exact site. Old Mac turned out so well -- is so highly acclaimed -- could you have built something even more interesting?
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Are not the other three courses at Bandon exhibits A, B, and C for NOT just sticking to concept holes?
Tom, if you had not gotten the mandate to build concept holes, I wonder what kind of course you might have designed on that exact site. Old Mac turned out so well -- is so highly acclaimed -- could you have built something even more interesting?
We would never know the answer to that, because Mr. Keiser probably would have hired a different architect instead. The only reason he was comfortable coming back to have us do a second course at the resort, is because it wouldn't be marketed with my name.
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While Ballyneal is still #1 on my courses to play list, from all I've read OM has firmly taken over 2nd place. It seems like a rare and genuine treat to play. But also, as an example of an architect's work -- I haven't ever thought of OM as a replica course or as using templates or even as a collection of concept holes. To me it has always seemed more akin to an accomplished water-colourist famed for painting fields of flowers (Ballyneal) being asked to instead paint the Himalayas or Mt Everest (Old Macdonald), i.e. the 'forms' he is now capturing are bigger and bolder and more familiar to us than what he's done before, but the approach and philosophy and ethos and aesthetic of the artist-craftsman remain the same. Thus the water-colourist is both squarely within his comfort zone/area of expertise and at the same time totally outside of it -- and that I think makes for very interesting work.
Peter
(PS - the famed water-colourist, however, doesn't talk much about Mt. Everest, because he's never liked being told what to do/paint! :))
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Not long ago I played Old Macdonald with some friends, and everyone walked away incredibly high on the golf course.
Some stated that if they returned to Bandon, they'd play Old Macdonald to the exclusion of the others.
Remind me not to ask those friends for advice on where to play. Old Mac is a fine golf course, but traveling all the way to Bandon and skipping out on the other courses is crazy talk as far as I'm concerned. All three of the other courses belong in the top 50 in the US (easily), with BT and PD in my top ten. I'd like to play Old Mac with a summer wind because I think it was conceived to play that way, especially now that I've played NGLA, Fishers, and some of the "originals," but I'll differ from Jud in that I think OM is clearly my 4th at the resort and also 4th of the Doak designs I have played.
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(PS - the famed water-colourist, however, doesn't talk much about Mt. Everest, because he's never liked being told what to do/paint! :))
:) Peter:
I did enjoy the design exercise of Old Macdonald, trying to marry the famous old holes I know so well with a real links site and state-of-the-art construction ideas, and I think the result was outstanding. I fully expected that the people who love the templates would think it was some of our best work; I just don't like it when they try to use the project as the vindication of the templates as a superior art form. If the public at large really thought it was my BEST work, I would be disappointed at that ... but it is ranked as my fourth best course next to an ocean, not my best.
I do have a mountain course of my own, which Ran just profiled here. It does not have the ocean view to attract the same panelist attention. but I am quite partial to it.
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Pat:
I'm glad you really liked Old Macdonald. But,
Are not the other three courses at Bandon exhibits A, B, and C for NOT just sticking to concept holes?
Tom,
Certainly, but, I found the other courses more challenging for the average to high handicap golfer.
I think part of the increased to intense challenge is the proximity to the ocean and the winds derived from that proximity.
I believe that the "templates" and/or "concept" holes tend to have a user friendly quality blended or woven into the inherent challenge presented by those holes.
Pacific Dunes seems more like a "championship" course, whereas Old Macdonald seems more like a "sporty" course.
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Are not the other three courses at Bandon exhibits A, B, and C for NOT just sticking to concept holes?
But aren't most or all of the underlying "concepts" present at these three other courses?
If anything, I'd say these other courses are exhibits A, B, and C for applying fundamental concepts of sound strategic design implicitly, rather than explicitly. It reminds me of the quote by British golf writer Henry Leach from 1920:
The sum total of the charms and virtues of a golfing hole in its own natural surroundings depends on many things, some of them quite indefinable, which no art can transplant nor imitate. I believe that a wise architect, however closely, in fact, he may try to model one of his creations upon some famous hole elsewhere, will hold his peace about it. If he confesses, those who do not know the famous original will call him sycophantic, those who do know it will deem him profane. If he keep silence, his plagiarism will most likely never be guessed at, and his brilliant and novel design will be warmly commended on all hands.
At Old Macdonald, the adherence to the fundamental concepts is readily acknowledged. At the other three, the architects kept their silence.
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8) Would have to say my favorite memories from OM are 1) talking about the routing and topo with Jim Urbina, 2) talking with George Bahto and almost missing my tee time.. and then 3) the Redan, Roadhole, Sahara, Biarritz, the Ocean, the Alps, WestwardHo.. pretty much everything but walking off the 18th and not being able to replay.
p.s. As much as i loved the Bandon Courses, and enjoyed the amenities, I didn't like the wamm bamm CASH COW RETAIL GOLFER, next please feel there.
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8) Would have to say my favorite memories from OM are 1) talking about the routing and topo with Jim Urbina, 2) talking with George Bahto and almost missing my tee time.. and then 3) the Redan, Roadhole, Sahara, Biarritz, the Ocean, the Alps, WestwardHo.. pretty much everything but walking off the 18th and not being able to replay.
Steve, one of my favorite memories is playing OM with the gca guys prior to its official opening. I played with Gib, who had a role in pitching the idea to Mike Keiser. He was walking on air. George Bahto road around in a cart that day, and he reminded me of a proud fist time father! Without debating design credit, I swear George probably felt like handing out cigars! He was SOOOO proud of what was built on the ground.
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee169/wcb323/Old%20Mac/DSCN0281.jpg) (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/wcb323/media/Old%20Mac/DSCN0281.jpg.html)
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Are not the other three courses at Bandon exhibits A, B, and C for NOT just sticking to concept holes?
Tom, if you had not gotten the mandate to build concept holes, I wonder what kind of course you might have designed on that exact site. Old Mac turned out so well -- is so highly acclaimed -- could you have built something even more interesting?
We would never know the answer to that, because Mr. Keiser probably would have hired a different architect instead. The only reason he was comfortable coming back to have us do a second course at the resort, is because it wouldn't be marketed with my name.
For those of us who like the history of golf course architecture, the building of OM should be fascinating.
I absolutely LOVE the irony of Tom Doak being asked to be the lead architect on this project. First of all, Mike Keiser was going to build a CBM tribute course. So while Tom may have seen a hundred great holes on the site and preferred to route the course in his normal way, that was not an option. If he was going to work on this great piece of land, he was going to have to follow CBM's ideal golf hole formula. You gotta love that!
It is not that Tom did not know all the template holes quite well; he probably had seen all of the originals except the Biarritz. But being restricted to only using templates had to drive him crazy. I know he slipped in a non-tempate with Ocean, which is very cool. So if routing a great course on a great piece of land is a puzzle, the OM solution was resticted to a CB Macdonald solution.
I wonder if history will recognize that the building of Old Macdonald was Tom Doak's one and (probably) only time he was forced to become Seth Raynor? :)
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Tom Doak's 4th best course by an ocean.... And I suspect there is no 5th?
Great as it is - was it not a missed opportunity in that the team didn't 'create the best possible course'?
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Pacific Dunes seems more like a "championship" course, whereas Old Macdonald seems more like a "sporty" course.[/color]
Until Old Mac came along, Trails was considered a championship course and Pacific was a sporty course. Perspective changes with time and neighbors.
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Great as it is - was it not a missed opportunity in that the team didn't 'create the best possible course'?
Yes- in other news, Cindy Crawford has a mole...
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Tom Doak's 4th best course by an ocean.... And I suspect there is no 5th?
Great as it is - was it not a missed opportunity in that the team didn't 'create the best possible course'?
How do you know that they didn't ?
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Pacific Dunes seems more like a "championship" course, whereas Old Macdonald seems more like a "sporty" course.[/color]
I've never thought of Pac Dunes as a "championship" golf course.
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Pacific Dunes seems more like a "championship" course, whereas Old Macdonald seems more like a "sporty" course.[/color]
I've never thought of Pac Dunes as a "championship" golf course.
How many times have you played it from the back tees ?
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Pacific Dunes seems more like a "championship" course, whereas Old Macdonald seems more like a "sporty" course.[/color]
I've never thought of Pac Dunes as a "championship" golf course.
How many times have you played it from the back tees ?
Every time.
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Old Macdonald is Exhibit A for the enduring genius of old school architecture and how one man had the vision and nerve to think it marketable. Played from the proper tees, it is also wacky good fun in a golfing meadow by the seashore.
As for the championship nature of one course versus another, it's almost immaterial, because any of the four can bust your balls or give you a kiss on the cheek, depending on the weather. It's clearly the best pure golf resort in America.
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Great as it is - was it not a missed opportunity in that the team didn't 'create the best possible course'?
Given that Pacific Dunes is oft considered Tom's best. And, given that many considered Old MacDonald better than Pacific Dunes.
It is hard for me to imagine there could be a better course on the site. I know for sure that you couldn't have conceived a better course for the sight. In other words, you are no Tom Doak. :D
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Pacific Dunes seems more like a "championship" course, whereas Old Macdonald seems more like a "sporty" course.[/color]
I've never thought of Pac Dunes as a "championship" golf course.
How many times have you played it from the back tees ?
Every time.
And how many times is that ?
And, what was your score ?
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Terry,
I'd agree.
While some of the greatest architects or our time were employed, it took a man with incredible vision to conceive of Bandon.
And, it took a man with conviction willing to bankroll a speculative venture.
Old Macdonald is Exhibit A for the enduring genius of old school architecture and how one man had the vision and nerve to think it marketable. Played from the proper tees, it is also wacky good fun in a golfing meadow by the seashore.
Everyone in our group loved the golf course.
All vowed that it would be first on their list upon return.
It was challenging, but, it was fun.
Winged Foot West is challenging, but, I wouldn't want to play it day in and day out.
I would want to play Old Macdonald day in and day out.
As for the championship nature of one course versus another, it's almost immaterial, because any of the four can bust your balls or give you a kiss on the cheek, depending on the weather. It's clearly the best pure golf resort in America.
I can't think of another that compares to it.
If only it was an hour from my home ;D
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How many times have you played it from the back tees ?[/color]
Every time.
And how many times is that ?
And, what was your score ?
In other news, a dead horse was beaten today. Film at eleven.
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How many times have you played it from the back tees ?[/color]
Every time.
And how many times is that ?
And, what was your score ?
In other news, a dead horse was beaten today. Film at eleven.
Ron,
It's a relevant question, but, I'm not surprised that it's significance escapes you.
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Pacific Dunes seems more like a "championship" course, whereas Old Macdonald seems more like a "sporty" course.[/color]
I've never thought of Pac Dunes as a "championship" golf course.
How many times have you played it from the back tees ?
Every time.
And how many times is that ?
And, what was your score ?
Probably 8-10 times. Anywhere from 78 to 89, usually with lots of birdies and one or two big blowups and I don't think I ever saw it on a calm day. I don't think of a course that offers of up lots of birdies while kicking your ass on one or two holes a round as a "championship" course by conventional standards. I actually think PD is the sportier of the two.
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Probably 8-10 times. Anywhere from 78 to 89, usually with lots of birdies and one or two big blowups and I don't think I ever saw it on a calm day. I don't think of a course that offers of up lots of birdies with the while kicking your ass on one or two holes a round as a "championship" course by conventional standards. I actually think PD is the sportier of the two.
Well, neither of the two courses was meant for "championships" as Bandon is highly unlikely to host many of those. But if you play the back tees all the time and have never broken 78, you can't really say the course is a pushover, either. :) I agree with the sentiment that Pacific Dunes is more likely to yield more birdies but also cause a couple of "others" each round. Old Macdonald is longer but more open, so there are fewer birdies and fewer triples, but in the end I don't think one is much harder or easier than the other; they're just different.
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Pacific Dunes seems more like a "championship" course, whereas Old Macdonald seems more like a "sporty" course.[/color]
I've never thought of Pac Dunes as a "championship" golf course.
+1, it really isn't, but the ladies loved it at the Curtis Cup in 06
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regarding back tees
the real back tees at Bandon Dunes, are so far back, that they are no longer on the scorecard due to a desire by some to play those tees whether they should or not... (which I think is a good idea overall for the game of golf)
the back tees are still on the card for all the other courses :)
also I think the Old Mac has exceeded everyone's expectations of the land that was given for the course, as it looked pretty ho hum prior to a course being there, the whole team did a great job putting it together!
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I think everyone in my group loved Old Mac during my trip out there and we ended up playing every repeat round we could fit in on Old Mac. Because of the width, it can be easily enjoyed by everyone and you're not out of a hole even if you're a little off that day. One of my favorite spots is the snack shack between 7 and 8--such a great view of the courses, the ocean, the cliffs...
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Tom Doak's 4th best course by an ocean.... And I suspect there is no 5th?
Great as it is - was it not a missed opportunity in that the team didn't 'create the best possible course'?
How do you know that they didn't ?
I don't - hence the question.
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...
Great as it is - was it not a missed opportunity in that the team didn't 'create the best possible course'?
Given that Pacific Dunes is oft considered Tom's best. And, given that many considered Old MacDonald better than Pacific Dunes.
It is hard for me to imagine there could be a better course on the site. I know for sure that you couldn't have conceived a better course for the sight. In other words, you are no Tom Doak. :D
Indeed not. How very perceptive of you, particularly as you'd clearly been drinking on an empty head.
The question I was pondering is could Tom Doak have conceived a better course? he has intimated that quite possibly he could've, which, for how highly acclaimed the course is, is interesting.
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William G,
I have to agree and disagree on some of your points.
I agree on the Curtis Cup. Pac Dunes proved a worthy venue for the right " Championship" The Bandon Dunes resort was a wonderful host for this type of event, I was there during the competition, the weather was calm and the scores proved the set up to be just right. A little breeze and it could have turned the tide for either side.
The Pub Links Championship was another championship test for some of the youngest and most powerful games on the planet. Old Mac did not disappoint, I walked around with the USGA set up staff and discussed with them the days pin locations. I thought the people in charge for set up had just the right amount of Fun factor mixed in. For the record both courses were not set up from all the way back, both course stood up to the best players in each respective championship.
I disagree with the land used for Old Macdonald, You mentioned that the land was not as good. I thought the topography on holes 9- !6 was as good as any land out there and the 13th hole had many small Mini contours that helped shape some of the best links land golf you could want. Once I convinced the group to move the original routing north of hole # 13 the land got even stronger in my opinion.
We did Sand Cap some of the holes namely # 1-6 and 18. But the work performed by the finish crew more then made up for the lack of "Good Land"
Bill,
The Bahto family gave me a picture of George cruising the Old Mac landscape in a golf cart, it is a photo I will cherish forever. George was an inspiration for me and the rest of the construction crew who got to meet him. It was George's idea to do the Punchbowl on the 18th hole, the crew set out create that land form you see.
A lot of people had a hand in the creation of Old Macdonald, George being one of them. A lot of people don't know this but Mike Keiser insisted that George be on hand for the Macdconald Cup and the grand opening of Old Macdonald, he spent considerable time out there as a guest of Mike Keiser, a fitting thank you to wonderful person in George Bahto!
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Probably 8-10 times. Anywhere from 78 to 89, usually with lots of birdies and one or two big blowups and I don't think I ever saw it on a calm day. I don't think of a course that offers of up lots of birdies with the while kicking your ass on one or two holes a round as a "championship" course by conventional standards. I actually think PD is the sportier of the two.
Well, neither of the two courses was meant for "championships" as Bandon is highly unlikely to host many of those. But if you play the back tees all the time and have never broken 78, you can't really say the course is a pushover, either. :) I agree with the sentiment that Pacific Dunes is more likely to yield more birdies but also cause a couple of "others" each round. Old Macdonald is longer but more open, so there are fewer birdies and fewer triples, but in the end I don't think one is much harder or easier than the other; they're just different.
Tom,
I would wholeheartedly agree. In fact, between BD, PD & BT, I always scored worst at PD. Part of that had to do with that fact that it was a little tougher to get out there as a caddie, thus the most accessible days were usually the worst weather days - higher scores. Also, like I said, I've had rounds at PD where I blew up on a hole or two and shot 82 - I think had a 10 on 15 one day. Never struggled all the way around but usually got beat up somewhere along the way.
PD is not at all a pushover...nor a "championship" course. Rather, like I said, it feels like the sportiest of the all Bandon tracks.
Patrick, why did you call it a "championship" course? How many rounds did you log and what did you you shoot?
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Great as it is - was it not a missed opportunity in that the team didn't 'create the best possible course'?
Given that Pacific Dunes is oft considered Tom's best. And, given that many considered Old MacDonald better than Pacific Dunes.
It is hard for me to imagine there could be a better course on the site. I know for sure that you couldn't have conceived a better course for the sight. In other words, you are no Tom Doak. :D
Indeed not. How very perceptive of you, particularly as you'd clearly been drinking on an empty head.
The question I was pondering is could Tom Doak have conceived a better course? he has intimated that quite possibly he could've, which, for how highly acclaimed the course is, is interesting.
OK, we'll put you down as someone that can't take a joke even in the presence of smileys.
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Will,
"Patrick, why did you call it a "championship" course?
At close to 6,700 yards, in cool weather, with plenty of wind I found some of the fairways to play fairly narrow.
I also watched eight (8) different golfers struggle with the course and come nowhere near their handicaps.
How many rounds did you log and what did you you shoot?
I've played Pac Dunes about 6-8 times.
My last round I was 6 over from the Green tees.
By the way, what's your handicap ?
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P.S.
I predict a USGA Championship for Old Macdonald within the next ten (10) years.
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William G,
I have to agree and disagree on some of your points.
I agree on the Curtis Cup. Pac Dunes proved a worthy venue for the right " Championship" The Bandon Dunes resort was a wonderful host for this type of event, I was there during the competition, the weather was calm and the scores proved the set up to be just right. A little breeze and it could have turned the tide for either side.
The Pub Links Championship was another championship test for some of the youngest and most powerful games on the planet. Old Mac did not disappoint, I walked around with the USGA set up staff and discussed with them the days pin locations. I thought the people in charge for set up had just the right amount of Fun factor mixed in. For the record both courses were not set up from all the way back, both course stood up to the best players in each respective championship.
I disagree with the land used for Old Macdonald, You mentioned that the land was not as good. I thought the topography on holes 9- !6 was as good as any land out there and the 13th hole had many small Mini contours that helped shape some of the best links land golf you could want. Once I convinced the group to move the original routing north of hole # 13 the land got even stronger in my opinion.
We did Sand Cap some of the holes namely # 1-6 and 18. But the work performed by the finish crew more then made up for the lack of "Good Land"
Bill,
The Bahto family gave me a picture of George cruising the Old Mac landscape in a golf cart, it is a photo I will cherish forever. George was an inspiration for me and the rest of the construction crew who got to meet him. It was George's idea to do the Punchbowl on the 18th hole, the crew set out create that land form you see.
A lot of people had a hand in the creation of Old Macdonald, George being one of them. A lot of people don't know this but Mike Keiser insisted that George be on hand for the Macdconald Cup and the grand opening of Old Macdonald, he spent considerable time out there as a guest of Mike Keiser, a fitting thank you to wonderful person in George Bahto!
Jim,
Loved the Pub Links at Old Mac, awesome!
What I meant by the land looking ho-hum, is that as we all played Pacific from the 14th tee we look over and all wonder how they can take that land and create something equitable with where we were playing at the time.
great job!
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P.S.
I predict a USGA Championship for Old Macdonald within the next ten (10) years.
a championship course at under 7000 yards
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Will,
"Patrick, why did you call it a "championship" course?
At close to 6,700 yards, in cool weather, with plenty of wind I found some of the fairways to play fairly narrow.
I also watched eight (8) different golfers struggle with the course and come nowhere near their handicaps.
How many rounds did you log and what did you you shoot?
I've played Pac Dunes about 6-8 times.
My last round I was 6 over from the Green tees.
By the way, what's your handicap ?
I love that you LOVE to ask this question! You seem to ask it every time we engage in a discussion...never fails. Do some research.
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Terry,
I'd agree.
While some of the greatest architects or our time were employed, it took a man with incredible vision to conceive of Bandon.
And, it took a man with conviction willing to bankroll a speculative venture.
Old Macdonald is Exhibit A for the enduring genius of old school architecture and how one man had the vision and nerve to think it marketable. Played from the proper tees, it is also wacky good fun in a golfing meadow by the seashore.
Everyone in our group loved the golf course.
All vowed that it would be first on their list upon return.
It was challenging, but, it was fun.
Winged Foot West is challenging, but, I wouldn't want to play it day in and day out.
I would want to play Old Macdonald day in and day out.
As for the championship nature of one course versus another, it's almost immaterial, because any of the four can bust your balls or give you a kiss on the cheek, depending on the weather. It's clearly the best pure golf resort in America WORLD.
I can't think of another that compares to it.
If only it was an hour from my home ;D or 2 hours
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Will,
"Patrick, why did you call it a "championship" course?
At close to 6,700 yards, in cool weather, with plenty of wind I found some of the fairways to play fairly narrow.
I also watched eight (8) different golfers struggle with the course and come nowhere near their handicaps.
How many rounds did you log and what did you you shoot?
I've played Pac Dunes about 6-8 times.
My last round I was 6 over from the Green tees.
By the way, what's your handicap ?
I love that you LOVE to ask this question! You seem to ask it every time we engage in a discussion...never fails. Do some research.
Will,
There's a reason I ask that question.
The answer provides context.
Why are you reluctant to provide your handicap ?
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Will,
"Patrick, why did you call it a "championship" course?
At close to 6,700 yards, in cool weather, with plenty of wind I found some of the fairways to play fairly narrow.
I also watched eight (8) different golfers struggle with the course and come nowhere near their handicaps.
How many rounds did you log and what did you you shoot?
I've played Pac Dunes about 6-8 times.
My last round I was 6 over from the Green tees.
By the way, what's your handicap ?
I love that you LOVE to ask this question! You seem to ask it every time we engage in a discussion...never fails. Do some research.
Will,
There's a reason I ask that question.
The answer provides context.
Why are you reluctant to provide your handicap ?
I am not reluctant at all...I've just told you so many times, it gets really old. Like I said, don't be lazy and look into it. You should be able to find it in just about every thread we've ever engaged on.
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Will,
Dozens, if not hundreds of guys tell me what their handicap is.
While I store a considerable amount of data in my memory banks, your handicap is only of select and limited interest, hence it's been dispatched to the trash bin.
So, spare us the drama and tell us your handicap.
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Will,
Dozens, if not hundreds of guys tell me what their handicap is.
While I store a considerable amount of data in my memory banks, your handicap is only of select and limited interest, hence it's been dispatched to the trash bin.
So, spare us the drama and tell us your handicap.
Drama? ???
I am a former PGA member...take a guess if your memory is so shite.
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Pat, I felt compelled to reply even though I don't post much. I just wanted to share a quick story regarding your original post and specifically the last couple of sentences. I made my 3rd trip out to Bandon just this past August with my Dad and my 2 teenage sons. The trip was a gift from my Dad and I for my oldest son who graduated high school in June. The deal my parents have made with their grandkids is that when they graduate high school, they get to pick a "trip." Both my older sons play competitive golf with my oldest now playing in College. Anyway, both the boys have heard me talk about my 2 other trips to Bandon with the guys and they were dying to go. The bottom line as you can imagine, it was an awesome trip that brings joy every time I talk or write about it. My Dad is not that old (65 going on 66) but 36 a day of walking was not his cup of tea, although he walks regularly with a caddy at our home club. The boys and I were scheduled to play 36, 36, 31. I had scheduled a massage for my Dad after the first round and he was going to figure out something to do in the afternoon on the second day. The last day were going to play PD and then the Preserve, which I had not played yet. One of the best highlights was after the first 9 holes of the trip on PD, my Dad turns to me and says, "cancel that massage - I'm having too much fun. I'm going to play all the rounds." He did and we had an unbelievable trip. Special moments highlighted by my 16 year holing out for a 2 at 16 in the first round at PD to close out our opponents - his older brother and my Dad and then my Dad knocking it off the flag stick on #4 on the preserve for the "almost" ace during our last round. Now, finally back to your original post about introducing your son to OM and Bandon in general. It is obviously a very special place for so many reasons, but what I found so interesting was that my oldest (18 yrs. old) came away saying that OM was his favorite course at the resort. I am definitely a newbie and have enjoyed being part of this site and ready as many books as possible, but there is so much to "get" at OM and I don't know if he fully understood all the architecture and the merits of it, but he loved it. I know I don't need to tell you this, but you are correct in your anticipation of introducing your son to not only OM but the entire resort.
P.S. I know Sven. I can tell you that he added to not only the explanation of the architecture but to each and every round. Thanks again to you, and your partners.
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great post Ryan
Bandon is special 8)
glad you hooked up with Sven
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Pat, I felt compelled to reply even though I don't post much. I just wanted to share a quick story regarding your original post and specifically the last couple of sentences. I made my 3rd trip out to Bandon just this past August with my Dad and my 2 teenage sons. The trip was a gift from my Dad and I for my oldest son who graduated high school in June. The deal my parents have made with their grandkids is that when they graduate high school, they get to pick a "trip." Both my older sons play competitive golf with my oldest now playing in College. Anyway, both the boys have heard me talk about my 2 other trips to Bandon with the guys and they were dying to go. The bottom line as you can imagine, it was an awesome trip that brings joy every time I talk or write about it. My Dad is not that old (65 going on 66) but 36 a day of walking was not his cup of tea, although he walks regularly with a caddy at our home club. The boys and I were scheduled to play 36, 36, 31. I had scheduled a massage for my Dad after the first round and he was going to figure out something to do in the afternoon on the second day. The last day were going to play PD and then the Preserve, which I had not played yet. One of the best highlights was after the first 9 holes of the trip on PD, my Dad turns to me and says, "cancel that massage - I'm having too much fun. I'm going to play all the rounds." He did and we had an unbelievable trip. Special moments highlighted by my 16 year holing out for a 2 at 16 in the first round at PD to close out our opponents - his older brother and my Dad and then my Dad knocking it off the flag stick on #4 on the preserve for the "almost" ace during our last round. Now, finally back to your original post about introducing your son to OM and Bandon in general. It is obviously a very special place for so many reasons, but what I found so interesting was that my oldest (18 yrs. old) came away saying that OM was his favorite course at the resort. I am definitely a newbie and have enjoyed being part of this site and ready as many books as possible, but there is so much to "get" at OM and I don't know if he fully understood all the architecture and the merits of it, but he loved it. I know I don't need to tell you this, but you are correct in your anticipation of introducing your son to not only OM but the entire resort.
P.S. I know Sven. I can tell you that he added to not only the explanation of the architecture but to each and every round. Thanks again to you, and your partners.
Ryan,
Great trip! As a former caddie there, I was lucky enough to be involved in many great golf experiences as a looper and a player. My wife who worked in the Lodge and who does not play, would go out with me with a camera, a book, a water bottle and some snacks and walk entire rounds with me...and I always had a blast - obviously - but she did as well.
On the topic of this thread, what was the consensus amongst the Kelly clan as to which was the toughest, most fun, etc. etc.?
Cheers
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Will, thanks for sharing. It's just that kind of place, right? As far as the courses go, my Dad and my 16 year old liked Bandon Dunes the best. My favorite is Pacific because of the ruggedness and my oldest loved OM. They thought Trails was the hardest, but I think OM is, although I have yet to play it in a light wind. The 3 times, I have played, it's been pretty to very windy. Thanks for asking.