Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Duncan Cheslett on September 28, 2014, 03:23:06 AM
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What is the worst or most unpleasant golf hole you've ever experienced?
How about this one for starters?
Didsbury Golf Club is one of five adjoining courses built around 100 years ago along the flood plain of the River Mersey in South Manchester. Didsbury is far from the worst course of the five, but like all of them it suffers from damp, boggy conditions at almost any time of year.
In the seventies the Manchester orbital motorway (M60) was routed right through the course which led to unavoidable changes being made. New holes were built on a triangle of land accessed over the motorway by a footbridge and alterations made to the existing holes as necessary by architects Dave Thomas and Peter Allis (yes, him!!)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg157/dantovey/Didsbury10overview_zpsafa52bfb.jpg) (http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dantovey/media/Didsbury10overview_zpsafa52bfb.jpg.html)
Apart from the nightmare walk over the bridge with six lanes of busy traffic thundering under your feet the altered course is not bad, if a little dull and uninspiring. There is though, one complete disaster of a hole - the 10th!
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg157/dantovey/Didsbury10_zpsd2e15c28.jpg) (http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dantovey/media/Didsbury10_zpsd2e15c28.jpg.html)
What is wrong with the 10th at Didsbury? Where do I start?
First of all, the proximity of the motorway means that you cannot hear yourself think. The deafening roar of the traffic, however, drowns out the hum of the high voltage electricity cables 10ft above your head. A pylon sits adjacent to the tee and the cables run directly over the fairway all the way to and over the green. That's right - the entire hole is played with 10000v electricity cables over your head!
But that's not all! Such is the risk of stray balls clearing the high fence protecting the motorway that a local rule is implemented prohibiting the use of all clubs with a loft of less than 17 degrees. Until recently the rule was 'irons only' but I imagine that the advent of hybrids has led to the change. After checking our lofts we all took 5 woods - a club which most players are surely capable of sky-hooking! Perhaps left-handers should be banned from playing the hole at all!
I could just about accept all the above shortcomings if the hole was an architectural gem. It isn't. There is absolutely nothing there! Its disastrous environment is compounded by it being one of the dullest bog standard tree-lined parkland holes you will ever find. It is a relief to emerge from under the wires after putting out with your head still throbbing. It can't be good for your health.
I like Peter Allis and thoroughly enjoy his commentaries. My regard for him however, has taken a big knock after playing Didsbury yesterday!
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg157/dantovey/Didsbury10tee_zps10089489.jpg) (http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dantovey/media/Didsbury10tee_zps10089489.jpg.html)
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Didsbury was a MacKenzie course until the coming of the motorway. I don't know how much of the Mac course survives. When you are on the far side of the motorway you are also adjacent to a big waste tip - can be smelly.
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It seems that you've said precious little about the hole, and plenty about its surrounding freckles. Is it the hole or the dressing?
Does the fairway slope at all? Any mounding or wrinkles, or is it flat from tee to green? What is the green like? Is that single bunker enough to give it character?
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Does the fairway slope at all? Any mounding or wrinkles, or is it flat from tee to green? What is the green like? Is that single bunker enough to give it character?
There is no character to the hole - it is also such an unpleasant place to be that the only thought is to get to the next tee as quickly as possible!
Didsbury was a MacKenzie course until the coming of the motorway. I don't know how much of the Mac course survives.
There appears to be some confusion here, Mark.
According to the club website "Over the years the course has changed significantly. The first clubhouse burned down in 1909. In 1921 it became an 18 hole course and the world renowned golf architect C.A. Mackenzie, famous for his terraced greens, was employed to redesign several holes. In 1973 the whole course was redesigned after the Manchester ring road, the M60 bisected the land."
An entry for June 4th 1921 on the MacKenzie Chronology reads
" Didsbury GC, Manchester, England. The remodelled course was opened for play. ‘The Guardian’ 4 June 1921 Mark Bourgeois, Neil Crafter"
There is no other mention of Didsbury on the Chronology that I can find, despite the apparent reference in the above quote to a possible earlier entry.
So was Didsbury a Dr Mac course or was it the work of his brother Charles? I notice that the club are not members of the MacKenzie Society.
When you are on the far side of the motorway you are also adjacent to a big waste tip - can be smelly.
We're not doing a great job of selling Didsbury here, are we Mark? :)
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Duncan, I've just had a look in the Didsbury GC Centenary booklet:
'A celebrated golf course architect C.A. Mackenzie (famous for his terraced greens) was employed to lay out the five holes required after replanning the existing course, and on the 4th June 1921 an eighteen hole course was opened.'
Was it CA Mac (not, so far as I know, famous for his terraced greens)? Is their scholarship accurate?
I may have to drop them a note of enquiry.
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The par-5 9th hole at "Journey at Pechanga." An absolutely horrible hole with giant oak trees in the middle of the fairway and no way of going around them save a 10 yard-wide sliver of fairway to the right with OB to the right of that. Evidently the right fairway was supposed to be much wider, but a burial ground(?) was discovered on the right side of the hole, and the hole had to be re-routed.
Whatever the reason, the hole is just plain awful.
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I had a whole Eclectic 18 of the worst 18 holes I'd ever seen in the Gazetteer of the original Confidential Guide.
I wisely chose not to rehash it for the current volume!
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Power cables hanging over a course are pretty vile.
I understanding burying them underground isn't really a goer due to heat and cost. Has anyone found an inexpensive way to deal with the issue?
atb
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I remember reading - at the time - that we could have buried every power cable in the UK for the amount we spent on the Millennium Dome. I can't be sure if that is true, but if so, surely it would have been a better contribution to our national well-being?
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I remember reading - at the time - that we could have buried every power cable in the UK for the amount we spent on the Millennium Dome. I can't be sure if that is true, but if so, surely it would have been a better contribution to our national well-being?
That seems unlikely. The big ones cost about $2 million per mile to bury ... and even if you were willing to pay it, the power companies sometimes refuse if the line is important.
The only place I knew of where a golf development buried more than a mile of power lines was Caves Valley in Baltimore, before our client in China rerouted two power lines so they wouldn't cross the island where the course is built.
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Played this gem yesterday
(http://www.golfclub-bremerschweiz.de/assets/birdie_book/Bahn18.jpg)
The pictures doesn't describe nearly enough how bad this hole is. You have no idea where to shoot the ball whether for the tee shot or the second shot. If you are in the Fairway, all you can do is chip out because your second shot is blocked out by the trees. If you are on the fairways and hit the second straight an as arrow there is a 70% chance you end up in the water because the small fairway, which you can't see anywhere after the tee shot, is sharply tilted to the water. If you manage to avoid it, you still can't hit it close to the flag if it is on the left side of the green because the window between the trees in front of the green is maybe 20 meters wide
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I remember reading - at the time - that we could have buried every power cable in the UK for the amount we spent on the Millennium Dome. I can't be sure if that is true, but if so, surely it would have been a better contribution to our national well-being?
That seems unlikely. The big ones cost about $2 million per mile to bury ... and even if you were willing to pay it, the power companies sometimes refuse if the line is important.
The only place I knew of where a golf development buried more than a mile of power lines was Caves Valley in Baltimore, before our client in China rerouted two power lines so they wouldn't cross the island where the course is built.
Tom - That was a pretty happy day when the towers came down! ... and we got video evidence!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bvoeepn5691kh87/Video%20Oct%2001%2C%208%2039%2042%20PM.mov?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/bvoeepn5691kh87/Video%20Oct%2001%2C%208%2039%2042%20PM.mov?dl=0)
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Duncan, I've seen a few crappy holes, but yours takes the cake. ;D
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#6 on one of the nines at Kennedy Muni in Aurora, CO. 450 yard par four. Forced layup off the tee as there is a wide creek 240 yards off the tee; to carry it you need to hit it 300 on the fly.
So, you have to hit 3 iron off the tee and 3 wood for your second shot. The only par four I've ever played where you have to hit a longer club for a second shot than you do off the tee.
Oh, and to your left are six lanes of Interstate 225 and an ugly ass reservoir.
Honorable mention - #6 at Legacy Ridge in Westminster, CO.
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#6 on one of the nines at Kennedy Muni in Aurora, CO. 450 yard par four. Forced layup off the tee as there is a wide creek 240 yards off the tee; to carry it you need to hit it 300 on the fly.
So, you have to hit 3 iron off the tee and 3 wood for your second shot. The only par four I've ever played where you have to hit a longer club for a second shot than you do off the tee.
Oh, and to your left are six lanes of Interstate 225 and an ugly ass reservoir.
Honorable mention - #6 at Legacy Ridge in Westminster, CO.
My friend was visiting Denver earlier this year and drove by JFK as he took 225 from the airport to the Tech center. I wrote him like a 10,000 word email about how horrifically bad this hole is. You forgot about the drive being downhill, which makes it play even shorter, so it's an awkward shot to even try to get out as close to the edge as you'd like. There's also (is? was? Haven't played there in a decade) a giant tree swallowing up the left side of the fairway. I saw people hit drives in the left of the fairway but have to chip out to the right side before trying to clear the creek. God, that's a bad hole.
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Speaking of Denver, Hyland Hills has several candidates. The 3rd is a par 5 that double doglegs around a pond with giant trees guarding the inside of both doglegs. The optimal strategy is to hit something about 225 off the tee to the first bend, then about 200 straight away to a narrow opening then a 135 yard shot to a green which tips heavily left to right down to a bunker or hazard. There really isn't any other way to play the hole. You can try to whack one over the first dogleg with driver, but you take on trees and the pond. Even if successful, your second will be blocked out by a massive tree guarding the inside of the second dogleg, so your play is PW, PW from there. It is an absolute disgrace of a golf hole.
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Talk of power lines reminds me of the time I hosted a high profile GCA visitor from across the pond at Reddish Vale. Teeing off at the 17th he questioned whether the tee was in its original location as he couldn't imagine Dr MacKenzie siting a tee under power lines.
It was gently pointed out to him that the chronology didn't quite work like that! ;)
And before anyone asks, the power lines at Reddish Vale impact only slightly on three holes - the tee shots at 17, 16, and 18 from left to right on the photo. A local rule requires a mandatory reload without penalty if a ball strikes a cable.
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg157/dantovey/RVPowerLines2_zps1bc7c85c.jpg) (http://s247.photobucket.com/user/dantovey/media/RVPowerLines2_zps1bc7c85c.jpg.html)
On one famous occasion a Major Comp was won after a ball heading straight for the river on 16 hit a wire. The second ball was subsequently chipped in for an eagle 2!
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I have played plenty of bad golf courses filled with bad holes. But if they are cheap and you are with your buddies who cares? But charging a premium for terrible golf is where my ire is raised.
I played this course once, The Grove Country Club in Long Grove IL. It is a terrible real estate course. The hole that stands out is the second. The tee was completely in the shade so it was dead and muddy. There was trees and ob left with more trees to the right. Hit a driver and you can go into a pond. After a dogleg in the landing zone there is water to the right and trees all the way down the left side including more in the second landing area. The preferred shot for the approach might be inside a fairway bunker. It was a poorly thought out hole with a house in the middle of the dogleg which necessitated planting of trees to protect the house. The only allowed tee shot is a draw - which many golfers cannot pull off.
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This is the one that came to mind for me --guess the architect.
(http://pevelyfarms.com/files/cache/45425bde85f8139b5d96726f99679551_f39.jpg)
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I have played plenty of bad golf courses filled with bad holes. But if they are cheap and you are with your buddies who cares? But charging a premium for terrible golf is where my ire is raised.
I played this course once, The Grove Country Club in Long Grove IL. It is a terrible real estate course. The hole that stands out is the second. The tee was completely in the shade so it was dead and muddy. There was trees and ob left with more trees to the right. Hit a driver and you can go into a pond. After a dogleg in the landing zone there is water to the right and trees all the way down the left side including more in the second landing area. The preferred shot for the approach might be inside a fairway bunker. It was a poorly thought out hole with a house in the middle of the dogleg which necessitated planting of trees to protect the house. The only allowed tee shot is a draw - which many golfers cannot pull off.
Isn't that the old Hillcrest? That's a bad hole. But it's nothing compared to what used to be #1 (now #10) at Seven Bridges in Woodridge. That's the worst hole I've ever seen - the only par 5 in the world that is best played as 8 iron, 8 iron, 8 iron. Just horrible.
I don't know if used to be Hillcrest. I was only there once and after the Royal Group bought it. That first at 7 Bridges is also godawful. I refuse to go to 7 Bridges anymore. There used to be a par 5 at the Oak Club of Genoa that was 6 iron, 6 iron, 6 iron but I always had a weakness for that course and that particular hole had a cool skyline green with movement. As they are slowly destroying the Oak Club with renovations they turned it into a dumb par 4.
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#6 at Holly Hills (Frederick, MD). 496 yard par 4 with a large tree in the middle of the fairway. Take your drive right of the tree and draw it or left and cut it. If you go right and drive stays straight, OB. If you go left and do not cut it, you are wet. Dumbest hole EVER.
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I played Hartwell in Cincinnati a few times in high school and the third hole was a shortish par 5 with a 90-degree dogleg to the right about 130 yards from the tee, then 270 to the green. It would have been a much better long, straight par 4 rather than a short par 5 with a dogleg. See image below.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/PGAmagAmbassador/hartwell-3.jpg)
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John and David,
I'm sure I haven't played as many Chicago courses as you guys but two awful holes are 9 at Big Run, and one of my all time least favorites anywhere, #18 at George Dunne. Honorable mention for bad holes at Dunne go to 4 and 11.
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John and David,
I'm sure I haven't played as many Chicago courses as you guys but two awful holes are 9 at Big Run, and one of my all time least favorites anywhere, #18 at George Dunne. Honorable mention for bad holes at Dunne go to 4 and 11.
3 Chicago guys in this thread and nobody is going to mention #11 at Oak Grove in Harvard, IL? For shame.
http://www.oakgrovegolfcourse.com/hole11/hole11.htm (http://www.oakgrovegolfcourse.com/hole11/hole11.htm)
The picture doesn't quite do it justice, as that "water" is really a bunch of trees/wetlands that you cannot hit over. It is best played wedge, wedge, wedge, wedge, one putt.
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The worst hole I played this year was the 2nd at the Legend at Shanty Creek in Michigan. It was about 300 yards long from the tees we played with the tee shot uphill over a cliff. I am not sure how high the hill was but it was one of the steepest I have encountered. The fairway is a relatively narrow tabletop surrounded by weeds left, water right and water long. The 2nd shot is a pitch over water to the green.
It is a pretty easy hole for good players, provided that they judge the distance effect of the uphill tee shot correctly. For the vast majority of us it is pretty much impossible. It is pretty much the opposite of what a well designed hole should be. I am not sure why they did not just make a good par 3 on some difficult land.
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#1 at Furry Creek in British Columbia.
It's about 320 yards that's really tight with water all along the left and rubbish to the write. A 100 ft drop from the tee to green allows for the ball to get offline.
It use to the be the 9th now it's the first. Great view but not a great hole.
(http://www.golfbc.com/images/courses/furry_creek/photos/golf/fc_1.jpg)
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#1 at Furry Creek in British Columbia.
It's about 320 yards that's really tight with water all along the left and rubbish to the write. A 100 ft drop from the tee to green allows for the ball to get offline.
It use to the be the 9th now it's the first. Great view but not a great hole.
(http://www.golfbc.com/images/courses/furry_creek/photos/golf/fc_1.jpg)
That's one nervy 1st tee shot!
I don't see how such a spectacular looking hole can be described as being so bad, though. It's just a pity about the cart path (or is it a road) on the right.
For big hitters it's a drivable par 4; at the other end of the spectrum it's 5 iron, 9 iron.
I wish that was the worst hole I'd ever seen! ;D
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Years ago I played Pok-Ta-Pok which is Trent Jones jr course in Cancun. They have a green with a bunker in the middle of it. Somehow the notion of being on the green and not having a putt at the hole seems absurd to me.
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Years ago I played Pok-Ta-Pok which is Trent Jones jr course in Cancun. They have a green with a bunker in the middle of it. Somehow the notion of being on the green and not having a putt at the hole seems absurd to me.
The PGA Tour has this issue every year at Riviera, a Doak 9.
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I think the concept is nuts but at least #6 at Riveria is very narrow behind the green, therefore its not quite as bad. The one in Cancun is truly in the middle. Either way I am certainly not a fan of the concept,your either on the green or your not. If your on the green with a wedge in your hand you might as well be off the green.
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I think the concept is nuts but at least #6 at Riveria is very narrow behind the green, therefore its not quite as bad. The one in Cancun is truly in the middle. Either way I am certainly not a fan of the concept,your either on the green or your not. If your on the green with a wedge in your hand you might as well be off the green.
Maybe they could build some risk/reward features into that type of green. Give the player a route to the hole, even if the bunker is in his way, with the risk that he could putt into the bunker if he doesn't pull the shot off.
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Speaking of Denver, Hyland Hills has several candidates. The 3rd is a par 5 that double doglegs around a pond with giant trees guarding the inside of both doglegs. The optimal strategy is to hit something about 225 off the tee to the first bend, then about 200 straight away to a narrow opening then a 135 yard shot to a green which tips heavily left to right down to a bunker or hazard. There really isn't any other way to play the hole. You can try to whack one over the first dogleg with driver, but you take on trees and the pond. Even if successful, your second will be blocked out by a massive tree guarding the inside of the second dogleg, so your play is PW, PW from there. It is an absolute disgrace of a golf hole.
Ah Hyland Hills.... I see your #3 and raise you #18, which actually might be nearly as bad as my original entry, now that I think about it. Sadly I find myself going there often as my family lives close to it and they seem to like it, for some strange reason. I actually prefer the nine-hole course on the property.
Also forgot another notorious Denver staple.... the 10th at Aurora Hills. The 90 degree dogleg par-five somebody posted elsewhere in this thread actually reminded me of that monstrosity.
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Here's my pick. It may not be the worst hole in the world, but it's a total joke*. It was built on a decent site with good, sandy soil about an hour north of World Woods on similar terrain. As far as I know, there were no development or environmental restrictions. The 16th and 17th holes at Williston Highland(s) Golf Club are pictured below:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KBXudgbe5wY/VB2OJGxrbMI/AAAAAAAAJDk/3ZTxihLuaYE/s800/williston.jpg)
From the back tee of the 17th, at the lower left, the drive must be hit at least 230 yards, slightly uphill, to allow the player a straight shot at the green. But it can only go 250 before the fairway runs out. From there, it's about another 180 yards back down the hill to the green. To top it off, the green is so severely crowned that a bogey is almost certain, even after hitting decent first and second shots.
What about alternate playing angles? A sign just to the right of the tee declares that any ball that flies to the right of it (i.e., over the 16th hole) is OB. When I played this hole in high school matches, throwing caution to the wind, I routinely played over and through the trees in the approximate direction of the "fairway" (woods) bunker. I'm not sure I ever pulled it off.
* The joke is that after 8 holes among the first 16 with severe but not completely unusual doglegs to the left, the course's designer felt the need to overcompensate.
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Matt...wow, that's about as bad as I've ever seen...and I've seen some strange holes. Question.....do players just line up and drive it over the house on the corner lot across the street, or is there something stopping them ?
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Matt...wow, that's about as bad as I've ever seen...and I've seen some strange holes. Question.....do players just line up and drive it over the house on the corner lot across the street, or is there something stopping them ?
It depends on the golfer, his or her confidence and the situation.
There is a net that guards the road (and houses) that lines the net, however, if the golfer tees the ball on the very far left side of the tee and can get the ball up in the air quickly, it is possible to go over it. Of course, you run the risk of hitting into the net and not having a decent second shot, or worse, mishitting it and hitting a car or a house.
Furthermore, I remember from a high school match I played there in 2004 that there was a local rule that penalized players stoke and distance if he or she attempted to go over the net. It was more of a liability thing rather than a "competitive advantage" rule.
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No. 14 at Crowders Mountain Golf Club (a public course), Gastonia, NC. Claimed by the course as "The Hardest Par 5 in the World." http://www.golfholes.com/nc/crowders-mountain.htm Photo of part of the hole at the bottom of linked page. Click on photo for more views. Narrow, fairway slopes severely right to left, with blind "pond" smack in the middle of the of the fairway off the tee. Really stupid hole.