Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Greg Tallman on August 28, 2014, 11:11:59 AM
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Will do a complete photo tour when time allows. For now here is a sample.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040702_zps3f1ae08b.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040702_zps3f1ae08b.jpg.html)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040748_zps77b99b96.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040748_zps77b99b96.jpg.html)
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Tiger's Course at Diamonte?
Bart
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I wish I was there...
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Tiger's Course at Diamonte?
Bart
No sir, but you can see it from the point where the second picture was taken.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040747_zps5b714ccf.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040747_zps5b714ccf.jpg.html)
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The new "around the mountain" Nicklaus course
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The new "around the mountain" Nicklaus course
Correct. The course name is Quivira and is now open for limited play. If I can get the picture resizing feature to work on photobucket I will keep going... 1 out of 3 thus far... about like my driver yesterday.
Though experiencing moments like this made my poor golf seem unimportant.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040735_zps28c1be80.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040735_zps28c1be80.jpg.html)
The hole being played when above photo was taken...
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040730_zps8760095f.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040730_zps8760095f.jpg.html)
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Quivira is the latest Nicklaus course to hit Los Cabos and brings the Nicklaus offerings to a total of 90 holes in the region. The course is constructed primarily on the dune capped cliffs high above Diamante. You can see all of Diamante from several points at Quivira and much of Quivira from most parts of Diamante. While the principals might not appreciate it an interesting day would be had playing holes 1-11 on Diamante Dunes before hopping over to play 11 back through 10 at Quivira then the final 7 on the Dunes course for a rather interesting, 36 hole trek complete with 6 or 7 comfort stations... designated driver highly suggested.
On to the course.
#1 - Par 4 - 389/378/365/334/261
A largely accommodating opener made difficult only when the wind is blowing, which is most of the time! Strong left to right cross wind makes the tee shot more difficult than it appears though there is a fair amount of width here... something that is lacking elsewhere on the course.
Though lacking the downhill nature of the opener at Doak's Bay of Dreams the tee shot is not dissimilar with ocean behind and native areas dotting what is some form of shared playing area with the 18th hole. You can see the 17th hole in the top left of the photo, including 17 there would be 5 holes down on the flat and the remaining 13 up on the cliffs/dunes.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040662_zps0af6eed1.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040662_zps0af6eed1.jpg.html)
The approach is straightforward with a deep bunker and closely mown area lurking right (remember the wind)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040663_zps6e6d3f11.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040663_zps6e6d3f11.jpg.html)
One of the more benign greens at Quivira though it does have some movement as you get deeper into the green
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040664_zpsb685f31a.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040664_zpsb685f31a.jpg.html)
The fall off and bunker on the right side with my ball that landed on the right edge less than 20 fee from the hole once it found its final resting place
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040665_zps20f6e2e5.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040665_zps20f6e2e5.jpg.html)
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#2 - Par 3 - 210/192/178/155/97
Mid length par 3 where normal wind aids in the preferred left to right shape required for this hole.
I guess I would have preferred the native to provide the "hazard" left and above the green rather than the bunker but overall a solid hole in a nice setting
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040668_zpsed6847aa.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040668_zpsed6847aa.jpg.html)
Plenty of movement in the green. You can make out the ridge running between my ball and the hole creating some interesting hole location options here... I failed to navigate the ridge properly :(
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040669_zpsa3a9ea76.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040669_zpsa3a9ea76.jpg.html)
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#3 - Par 4 - 316/275/260/240/220
Short par 4 which I am not certain it is designed to be "drivable" though some could on this uphill, heavily bunkered hole.
An awful lot going on here, probably too much as the strong player is going to get past the center line hazard which is not a bunker but exposed dune that still requires some vegetation to present well and the average player is going to find it pretty frequently I imagine. May have been better served pulling the bunker/native area in from the left to mess with the better player while allowing the average guy ample room to get the ball in play
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040670_zps1b9e05b0.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040670_zps1b9e05b0.jpg.html)
Zoomed in a bit
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040671_zps95983cc4.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040671_zps95983cc4.jpg.html)
Not that I am a strong player but I was comfortably over the central hazard and left with a pitch of some 50 yards over the front bunker which looked simple enough, not easy but straightforward...
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040672_zps8d830113.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040672_zps8d830113.jpg.html)
...though upon executing the shot I arrive at the green to find out just how tough it really was with the flag tucked not only behind the bunker but just beyond a transition as the green runs away from left to right. With the greens not quite up to speed I was able to get it close though I suspect the same shot a year from now would be another 10-15 right and beyond the hole.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040673_zps4a415377.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040673_zps4a415377.jpg.html)
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#4 - Par 5 - 616/594/531/472/433
Turning around and heading back toward the ocean the wind is now from the right and slightly against, not welcome on this behemoth.
Tee shot is a bit odd. Being a right to left player and with the wind coming hard from the right the tee ball is a bit awkward and requires your full attention. That said, when you get out in the fairway you see there is more than ample room to fit the ball onto the turf.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040674_zpsbde7eccb.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040674_zpsbde7eccb.jpg.html)
A decent tee ball leaves you with an "all you got" second to get into position. WIth the wind howling the play here was at the tree and let the wind move it back, coming up just short of the bunker in the distance, some 90 yards from the green (dumb luck as I had no idea of distance to the bunker)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040675_zps99c000c1.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040675_zps99c000c1.jpg.html)
Beyond the 90 yard bunker is a ton of room right of the green complex that ranks as one of the less memorable at Quivira
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040676_zps4f7d539c.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040676_zps4f7d539c.jpg.html)
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A considerable drive from the fourth green to the fifth tee is broken up by the first comfort station... do not get too close to the edge!!
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040677_zps04e5ae7c.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040677_zps04e5ae7c.jpg.html)
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#5 - Par 4 - 310/311/288/268/202
After the lengthy commute and breathtaking comfort station you meet the holes that will be the most talked about on the course.
Whether the fifth is a good hole or not is open for debate though the rank and file tourist will talk about it over and over. Built along the very edge of the cliff this vertigo inducing beauty will test your nerve should your ball wander too close to the precipice. Heck just standing on the tee is a bit daunting to be honest.
At any rate you are faced with the most difficult tee shot of the day, into a fierce wind. With the turf line being about 25 yards wide in the landing area I doubt many a resort golfer gets a ball in play here and even if so the "fun" has only begun.
You can see the edge of the green jutting out on the left side of the photo some 80 feet(?) below the fairway level
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040680_zps75bb01ec.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040680_zps75bb01ec.jpg.html)
Just for fun they have built a lower tee that serves as the black tee directly below the gold tee that is 1 yard longer than the black... sorry, I am not going down there!
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040679_zps6662f358.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040679_zps6662f358.jpg.html)
If you manage to hit the ribbon of turf you are most likely left with a completely blind shot where you fee as though you are hitting over the cliff and into the ocean but as noted above there is a green down there as evidenced again with this photo from the cart path at the very end of the turf line.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040681_zps0f2ea16e.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040681_zps0f2ea16e.jpg.html)
After carefully managing the snaking cart path you arrive at the green that is literally on the edge of the cliff... only about 200 feet down to the beach.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040682_zps961573fd.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040682_zps961573fd.jpg.html)
The look back up to the fairway.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040683_zps6c707583.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040683_zps6c707583.jpg.html)
And from the green to black tee hanging off the cliff in the distance.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040684_zpsaaa153c3.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040684_zpsaaa153c3.jpg.html)
Interesting golf hole to say the least!
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#6 - Par 3 - 180/165/135/107/98
Just when you thought it was safe to keep your eyes somewhere other than one foot in front of you... we have the second of the cliff side holes.
This par 3, while perhaps a bit forced works better than the 5th in my mind. While it certainly another "hit a very good shot or else" hole it is a hole that will garner much attention and eat many a sleeve. I do not have a photo of the green which is basically your basic narrow, longish, two tier surface
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040685_zps543a0bbb.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040685_zps543a0bbb.jpg.html)
If you are a player who comes up and out of their posture, losing your balance toward your heels on your follow through.... BEWARE as here is the view just off the left edge of the smallish tee!!!!
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040687_zpse76c4439.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040687_zpse76c4439.jpg.html)
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Hmmmmmm, very pretty though ;D
I look forward to seeing it later in the year.
#6 looks alot like that hole on Mahogany Run in St Thomas, hit the green or else.
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#7 - Par 4 - 409/366/345/320/306
After playing along the cliff's edge for the last couple of holes you climb to the top of the dune and play across toward Diamante.
7 and 8 are two of the better holes on the course and just as beautiful as what was just encountered along the cliffs at 5 and 6.
Still playing into the teeth of the wind (probably 25+ MPH yesterday) the seventh is a very tough tee shot. My biggest critique of the course is here. Such a great setting and awesome approach and much is lost with the lack of width from the tee. Again remember you are playing into a stiff breeze on a calm day. I think this is where placing strategy at specific yardages fails the architect. Considering I was playing from the gold markers (366) and after a decent punch driver had 160 yards remaining you simply have to be able to adjust your thinking on hazard placement. Much of the dunescape in the middle/right could be converted to fairway, giving the average player a fighting change. As it is the narrow space left of this and the central bunker that is another 35 yards beyond is all you've got to hit to. Pretty tall order in calm conditions...
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040689_zps7acfb5f0.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040689_zps7acfb5f0.jpg.html)
Zoomed a bit you can see more of the right side fairway though in my mind neither side offers sufficient width to be preferred over the other though the right side may well allow some errant shots to be found in good position though most, with the aid of the wind, will sail off into the dunescape.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040690_zps48777c96.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040690_zps48777c96.jpg.html)
Approaching the central hazards you get a sense of the relationship of the larger first bunker and the smallish second, no real playable area between
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040691_zpse6ad4f4d.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040691_zpse6ad4f4d.jpg.html)
Having crushed my tee ball some 210 yards I am left with about 160 and an absolutely beautiful approach... again my bugaboo here is just let people get to this point without beating them up, let them enjoy THIS!
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040693_zpsbe706836.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040693_zpsbe706836.jpg.html)
Of course after hacking out of the scrub and having this left as your 3rd, or perhaps 5th, isn't all bad either.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040695_zps87eed1d4.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040695_zps87eed1d4.jpg.html)
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#8 - Par 4 - 399/377/318/306/245
Following the awesome approach at 7 is pretty tough but the tee shot at 8 is just as cool. Similar look as the tee shot on 6 at Diamante the 8th is solid and beautiful from start to finish and among my favorite holes on the course. Again playing much longer than the yardage due to the wind one is at least afforded plenty of width on this hole. That said the average "retail golfer" is going to find the junk on the right frequently as the wind is from roughly 10 o'clock on the tee shot before you turn back into the face for the approach.
You can make the green out just beyond the round front bunker.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040697_zps5c78c95e.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040697_zps5c78c95e.jpg.html)
Challenging and attractive approach to a green some 30+ feet above
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040700_zpsb31b8f0d.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040700_zpsb31b8f0d.jpg.html)
Plenty of room for approaches hit shot and right, a theme repeated throughout the course
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040701_zps0490ee4b.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040701_zps0490ee4b.jpg.html)
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Hmmmmmm, very pretty though ;D
I look forward to seeing it later in the year.
#6 looks alot like that hole on Mahogany Run in St Thomas, hit the green or else.
Somewhat like the 13th at Mahogany Run though the green here is 3 times the size and this hole plays parallel along the cliff whereas at Mahogany you are playing over a chasm and back into the hillside a bit more.
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those two holes look great Greg
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Tiger's Course at Diamonte?
Bart
No...that will be called Diamante Cardinal. This is Quivera. Difft altogether.
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#9 - Par 3 - 222/201/181/155/145
Having climbed to the top of the dunes at the 8th green the per 3 ninth is the first of two holes along the backside of the dune. Surely the back side of the dune cannot yield the beauty and cool holes like 7 and 8, right?
Wrong. The 9th is a great looking, strong one shot hole. The wind now coming from the left complicates the play on eth longest par 3 on the course. Again there is room provided for the short right miss though you will be tested from there to certain hole locations, as we will see in a moment.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040702_zps3f1ae08b.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040702_zps3f1ae08b.jpg.html)
Misses to the right, while given plenty of opportunity to find and play the ball leave a tough pitch over the spine coming off the bunker into the right half of the green...
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040705_zps0833c6f0.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040705_zps0833c6f0.jpg.html)
...though shots falling left may find a worse fate, bounding down the slope into the junk with Diamante in the distance.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040704_zpsc009e366.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040704_zpsc009e366.jpg.html)
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Tiger's Course at Diamonte?
Bart
No...that will be called Diamante Cardinal. This is Quivera. Difft altogether.
For the sake of correctness that would be El Cardonal (as in cactus not bird) at Diamante and this is Quivira. ;)
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Pressing on to the back side.
By the way for those following along that is a front side of 3051 from the tips playing to a par of 34. Played MUCH longer than that... MUCH!
#10 - Par 5 - 554/529/499/475/435
The inward nine gets off to an interesting start with a tee shot that will challenge your nerve and penchant for risk. Risk/reward in the truest sense this 90° dogleg right may lull you into thinking the only play is safe, left of all trouble. This is not the case as my tee shot, pushed some 15 yards right of target happily found out. The line for those who can carry it at least 250 or so is over the junk on the right with my unintended line being just over my playing companion's head in the second photo... I let him move before swinging away if you were wondering.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040707_zpsf0e9f2d1.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040707_zpsf0e9f2d1.jpg.html)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040706_zps7a2f61c8.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040706_zps7a2f61c8.jpg.html)
A well executed tee shot or in my case lucky miss is left with a straightforward downhill plunge to a small, narrow green guarded only by a bunker some 40 yards short. Again dead into the wind one must decide if the risk is worth the reward as a simple lay up to 50-100 yards is all but given while not too far off the green is junk from which par is would not be easy.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040710_zpsd8a3464a.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040710_zpsd8a3464a.jpg.html)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040711_zpsdb9450dc.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040711_zpsdb9450dc.jpg.html)
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So this is the hole taht comes closest to the Diamante property?
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So this is the hole taht comes closest to the Diamante property?
Yes, the 10th green is near the property line and just behind Sunset Estates in Diamante. From here we turn around and head back up the dunes on the ocean side at 11 before zig-zagging our way back to the water on 12.
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#11 - Par 4 - 375/362/341/235/210
Completely blind tee shot to a split fairway where only an errant shot would find the lower right portion. Hitting up and over the side of the massive dune is intimidating and made tougher by the fact you really have no idea what is on top. Preferred line is just right of the tree/shrub you can see if you follow the slope of the lighthouse hill to its base. Straight at the tree could be slightly left of safe for longer hitters. A tight tee shot made easier by the strong tailwind.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040712_zpsc703f0fa.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040712_zpsc703f0fa.jpg.html)
Zoomed in
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040713_zps8826c507.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040713_zps8826c507.jpg.html)
Looking back down toward the back tees from the white tee which is 140 yards forward and probably 35 feet above with the new 12th fairway of Diamante floating amid the dunes in the distance.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040714_zps5c24a808.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040714_zps5c24a808.jpg.html)
Looking back from position A off the tee. From here you see the lower portion of the fairway that you cannot see from the tee.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040715_zps45ca974d.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040715_zps45ca974d.jpg.html)
Back to the shot at hand, a 40-80 yard pitch up the hill from a well struck tee shot. Not too daunting to the hole location seen here but no bargain to some of the tougher back right locations as the green falls away from left to right. Front left would also be tricky.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040716_zps1bcba56c.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040716_zps1bcba56c.jpg.html)
You get a sense of the green movement from the 12th tee
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040717_zps2ea814be.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040717_zps2ea814be.jpg.html)
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Greg, is the intent for access to be to specific hotels and time share developments? Is the wind as prevalent as at Diamante? From the photo tour it looks like a nice addition to the golf scene in Cabo.
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Greg, is the intent for access to be to specific hotels and time share developments? Is the wind as prevalent as at Diamante? From the photo tour it looks like a nice addition to the golf scene in Cabo.
The official line for now is only those guests of the Pueblo Bonito family of resorts along with property owners in terms of access but I do not believe that is set in stone.
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#12 - Par 5 - 635/595/578/520/482
I have dubbed this one "Zorro" as it is a Z shaped hole, at least that is how the turf is laid out.
Teeing off from a perched position atop the dune with a strong wind at your back this is the ultimate "let it fly" shot at Quivira. Another pick your poison and bit off what you want... a little local knowledge will go a log way at Quivira.
You see the Z layout of the hole with the green down against the water at the end of the expanse of turf.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040719_zps3c1480c9.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040719_zps3c1480c9.jpg.html)
As you drive down to the fairway you get a good look at the turf snaking its way toward the Pacific Ocean
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040721_zps5edb3024.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040721_zps5edb3024.jpg.html)
From a well it tee shot played along the "base of the Z" to the end of the turf line the yardage suggests a layup is the best play but after doing so I find that I could have reached with a perfect hybrid and easily with a 3 metal. That said it appears to be an all or nothing shot for those going for it, again that is deceiving...
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040722_zps90dfd51b.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040722_zps90dfd51b.jpg.html)
...as only long would be in trouble and there is miles of bailout right
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040726_zps7eafc26e.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040726_zps7eafc26e.jpg.html)
Mishit the tee shot and you may be forced to layup to this position, again leaving a shot that looks much harder than it is
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040725_zpsfaba141b.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040725_zpsfaba141b.jpg.html)
Interesting green, must be 90 yards long, quite narrow and full of movement... no bunkers
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040728_zps867efd18.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040728_zps867efd18.jpg.html)
Looking back on what used to be a big area for adventurous ATV riders
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040727_zps607df92e.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040727_zps607df92e.jpg.html)
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#13 - Par 3 - 148/135/122/108/85
Similar looking hole to the one being finished these days at Cabot Cliffs.
Here the trailing wind makes the hole harder as it is tough to hold the very small green. Just a wedge or 9 iron but it better be struck properly and a very exact distance...
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040730_zps8760095f.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040730_zps8760095f.jpg.html)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040731_zpsf6733f40.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040731_zpsf6733f40.jpg.html)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040732_zpsa606aa99.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040732_zpsa606aa99.jpg.html)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040735_zps28c1be80.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040735_zps28c1be80.jpg.html)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040736_zps1c5a11cb.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040736_zps1c5a11cb.jpg.html)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040737_zpsda14e698.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040737_zpsda14e698.jpg.html)
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Nice job Greg
Looking forward to playing it with you.
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Nice job Greg
Looking forward to playing it with you.
Bring you knockdown driver and an open mind. See you in a couple of weeks.
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#14 - Par 4 - 355/348/310/244/236
Another 90° dogleg right with the wind hard from the left with the green nowhere in sight as it is set behind a sizeable dune ridge and at the base of the largest dune on the site. Sounds appealing but this hole was not to my liking. Again, given the severity of the conditions this is another hole screaming for more width. As I continue saying that please understand this is coming from someone who hits the ball very straight with the driver most days.
The green is set in the right of the photo just below the large clumps of vegetation on the second dune in the distance
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040738_zpse2f6b4e0.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040738_zpse2f6b4e0.jpg.html)
The view from my playing companion's tee shot in the right half of the fairway not quite to the dogleg, faced with a blind 90 yard pitch over the dune
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040740_zpsfd1f15f3.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040740_zpsfd1f15f3.jpg.html)
The view from my badly necked attempt at a high cut wind rider that ended up being a bullet straight up the gut of the fairway
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040742_zpsc8a4f301.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040742_zpsc8a4f301.jpg.html)
Interesting green with a high front that is not quite deep enough to pin but makes depth perception difficult... I thought my approach was within 5 feet, only to find it at least 3x that
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040743_zpsd666154e.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040743_zpsd666154e.jpg.html)
Looking back from the green you get the sense of how little area there is to place the conservative tee shot and have a look at the green. That is the 8th green in the distance
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040744_zpsa325caae.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040744_zpsa325caae.jpg.html)
green view from cart path shows the severity of the slope up to the back tier, quite a few two tier greens on the course
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040745_zps7d7799ec.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040745_zps7d7799ec.jpg.html)
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#15 - Par 5 - 564/526/496/439/430
Once again you head to the back side of the dune and find a beautiful golf hole. Here again I think the effective width is lacking for the average player as few, if any, will consider the left side much of an option upon first glance. Perhaps after numerous plays that would change but I suspect peeling away a bit of the wonderful dunescape the bisects the fairway would provide a more playable experience while not changing the play for the strong player at all.
You can just may out a strip of fairway left of the dunes but it seems obvious the play is up the right side, hugging the central dune as close as possible. That said with the hard left to right wind perhaps those playing the gold or black, from where the left fairway presents itself better, might start the ball on that line and let the wind bring it back... and if they hit it straight, they are OK
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040749_zpsd6e34f81.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040749_zpsd6e34f81.jpg.html)
A well hit tee shot will actually sneak past the dunes though doing so on the fly requires a carry of about 295 from the black markers. From here you must carry the cross bunkering, fit one through a relatively tight space or lay up at the top of the hill. You can see the smallest round bunker in the center of the fairway that is about 50 yards short of and 30 feet above the green surface, carry it and the ball should trundle down around the green
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040751_zpsa5a6e42c.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040751_zpsa5a6e42c.jpg.html)
A better sense of the relationship of the cross bunkering/dunes and the green
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040752_zps1c8366d6.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040752_zps1c8366d6.jpg.html)
Lay up and you are left with an attractive and relatively problem free wedge from the top of the hill
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040753_zpsbfc22686.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040753_zpsbfc22686.jpg.html)
As you see here, nothing but sloping fairway between the center bunker and green. The green falls from higher right shelf to lower left shelf and presents a largely flat surface for all but the longest of putts
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040754_zps87fcc812.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040754_zps87fcc812.jpg.html)
Again, a ton of room short and right to miss it
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040755_zpse61d1a5e.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040755_zpse61d1a5e.jpg.html)
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#16 - Par 4 - 493/449/428/425/285
Longest par 4 on the course that plays far shorter than either the 7th or 8th that are 90-100 yards shorter in actual yardage. Another perched tee, downwind let it fly moment though this one is a bit tighter than the one at 12. The slightly angled fairway keeps you just a bit off balance in terms of where to aim... just hit it at the rocks in the fairway.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040756_zpsf14a0935.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040756_zpsf14a0935.jpg.html)
A bit more comforting angle from the blue tees just left of where this photo was taken
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040758_zpseb733cbf.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040758_zpseb733cbf.jpg.html)
From about 200 yards out the approach can be quite intimidating, the green is set in a bowl behind and well below the bunker
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040759_zps59c1d116.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040759_zps59c1d116.jpg.html)
A well hit tee shot to about 150 yards out will provide just a glimpse of the top of the flag over the bunker. I question the necessity of the bunker here... extra clutter or perhaps necessary directional aid?
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040760_zpsed564ca2.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040760_zpsed564ca2.jpg.html)
High on the left side you get a sense of the sunken nature of the green and surrounds some 35 yards beyond the bunker
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040761_zps5f2e2bf5.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040761_zps5f2e2bf5.jpg.html)
Finally from above the green on the left side you see the entire bowl within which the complex is located
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/P1040762_zps8dc24e9a.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/P1040762_zps8dc24e9a.jpg.html)
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#17 - Par 4 - 478/454/440/410/310
Another longish 4 that does not play to the yardage, in fact for many driver will not be the club of choice from the tee as you have to fit the ball into a smallish area and avoid going through the fairway into the natural wash that winds its way down the hole. Once again with a helping wind the hole does not play to the card yardage.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040764_zps0355cc50.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040764_zps0355cc50.jpg.html)
A well positioned tee shot will leave anything from 165 to 200 into the green that is disappointingly protected well short by a sizeable bunker, making the player carry the hazard rather than allowing a running shot to find the surface. While this does not bother me or influence the way I would play the hole I see it as a flaw when considering the for the average resort player.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040765_zpsf32b9df0.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040765_zpsf32b9df0.jpg.html)
One of the more entertaining greens on the course as it falls away from right to left...
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040767_zpsc2ae4f37.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040767_zpsc2ae4f37.jpg.html)
...throwing a pronounced mound/accent point into the mix about 1/3 of the way into the green
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040768_zpsf66e1022.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040768_zpsf66e1022.jpg.html)
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#18 - Par 4 - 486/444/401/385/318
Unlike the last pair this one plays its yardage and then some as you have turned ever so slightly into a wind now quartering against from the right. One of the few holes where finding turf seems a forgone conclusion, wish this type of width had been seen throughout. Aim it at the bunker on the right and keep it low
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040771_zps13c12c6a.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040771_zps13c12c6a.jpg.html)
Be prepared to have a "I have how much left?" moment when you arrive at your tee ball, not quite like 7 or 8 but as noted the hole plays long, don't put the headcovers back on the fairway woods and hybrids just yet. You can just make out the flag set on the front right in front of the dune in the distance as the green just out into the dune angling right to left. Plenty of room afforded a run up here and once again tons of room to miss short right
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040777_zpsaefba63b.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040777_zpsaefba63b.jpg.html)
From just a bit closer where the likes of MWP might hit their tee ball, not me. Better look at the cool green complex and awesome setting
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040780_zps681f84a4.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040780_zps681f84a4.jpg.html)
Still closer you begin to get the sense of the significant contouring of the final green
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040781_zps160b1732.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040781_zps160b1732.jpg.html)
And from the bailout area you see the long, wild green on the home hole. The final two greens are pretty cool and seem to fit the rugged surroundings better than those that precede them. That said there are some good complexes dotted throughout but for me none match the final pair
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj142/mexmanbgn/Quivira/P1040782_zpsc0ac85ad.jpg) (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/mexmanbgn/media/Quivira/P1040782_zpsc0ac85ad.jpg.html)
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Course Summary
Front 9 - Par 34
3051
2859
2601
2357
1769
Back 9 - Par 38
4088
3842
3615
3241
2557
Total - Par 72
7139
6701
6216
5598
4326
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Thanks for the effort. What is that building directly on the beach?
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Thanks for the effort. What is that building directly on the beach?
Golf clubhouse that will eventually be the beach club when the golf offering is expanded and likely rerouted a bit.
"Thanks for the effort" not real encouraging but considering...
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Thanks for the effort isn't chopped liver. I usually hate photo tours but thought you had just the right mix of pictures. And I do understand that it took considerable effort and am thankful for that.
That is one impressive location for a clubhouse/beach club. If I were the type to go to Mexico this is where I would love to go. Drunken cart ball 4 hour 15 minute rounds is what I love. Doing shots at the comfort stations while looking at the ocean, wow. The course should be uber-successful.
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Thanks for the effort isn't chopped liver. I usually hate photo tours but thought you had just the right mix of pictures. And I do understand that it took considerable effort and am thankful for that.
That is one impressive location for a clubhouse/beach club. If I were the type to go to Mexico this is where I would love to go. Drunken cart ball 4 hour 15 minute rounds is what I love. Doing shots at the comfort stations while looking at the ocean, wow. The course should be uber-successful.
Once they are up and fully running you better add another hour and fifteen minutes to that estimate. We zoomed around pretty good, using the comfort stations as passing zones only to catch a group that I would guess teed off at least two hours ahead of us on the 17th hole. The last two holes took us 50 minutes, if not more. The golf director is planning on rounds approaching 5 hours 30 minutes so be prepared.
Lots of hit and hunt for the average player out there. I would guess it is not a course you would play multiple times if vacationing in Cabo.
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5 hrs and 30 minutes. Have they legalized murder in Mexico?
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Greg, do you think it is better than the original Diamante?
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Greg, do you think it is better than the original Diamante?
Tim, I do not. Not in the same league as Diamante or CDS Ocean.
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5 hrs and 30 minutes. Have they legalized murder in Mexico?
Mainland Mexico? Perhaps.
Cabo? No, have another tequila and enjoy the view.
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Course Summary
Front 9 - Par 34
3051
2859
2601
2357
1769
Back 9 - Par 38
4088
3842
3615
3241
2557
Total - Par 72
7139
6701
6216
5598
4326
3051-4088 is one of the more unique cards I've ever seen.
Course looks like it has lots of potential, but the pictures definitely make it seem insanely narrow, and that's without considering the wind. I know photos can be tricky, but if you noted that concern as well ... pretty disappointing.
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Course Summary
Front 9 - Par 34
3051
2859
2601
2357
1769
Back 9 - Par 38
4088
3842
3615
3241
2557
Total - Par 72
7139
6701
6216
5598
4326
3051-4088 is one of the more unique cards I've ever seen.
Course looks like it has lots of potential, but the pictures definitely make it seem insanely narrow, and that's without considering the wind. I know photos can be tricky, but if you noted that concern as well ... pretty disappointing.
Again there is plenty of bail out for approaches but a lot of tee balls that your average player is simply not going to get in play more than 25% of the time. Overspray into the native areas will only complicate matters but the need for some vegetation is immediate to stabilize the sand.
Tee selection will be VERY important.
Width Assessment hole by hole
#1 - Hard left to right wind... width provided by 18th fairway
#2 - Par 3 sufficient
#3 - Sufficient width cluttered with too many hazards hurting the average player far more than the stronger, longer player
#4 - Sufficient width
#5 - Complete lack of width (Into the teeth of wind... ITW)
#6 Par 3 - no width, hit green or else (though I made three from the dune above the cart path ;) ) - ITW
#7 - Lack of width on otherwise fantastic golf hole - ITW
#8 - Lacking a bit, add some to the right would not hurt at all given the hurting, left to right wind on tee shot and uphill ITW approach
#9 Par 3 - sufficient
#10 Tee shot sufficient second shot pretty tight and ITW, a little more room right up through 80 yards wouldn't hurt at all
#11 Lack of width perhaps compensated by strong tailwind
#12 Sufficient width compromised for many by leaving a brow of dune across the fairway near landing area for many... those landing there are left with a tough second anyway, why penalize more?
#13 Par 3 - hit green or else, significant kicker slope left but distance must still be exact
#14 Lack of width considering strong left to right winds
#15 massive and wide central dune leave perhaps 35 yards width on either side... tough shot for most
#16 Looks tight but tailwind helps and there is a bit more room than it looks OK here
#17 Probably too narrow for resort play but I really liked the tee shot though I failed to execute... my fault
#18 This is what I wish the entire course looked like... WIDE fairway, beautiful approach with plenty of room for those playing safe and considerable challenge for those attacking the hole
I could play 1,2,7,8,9,12,15,16,17,18 all day long. Included 7 as the approach is the best on the course
Front nine (2900) from the gold tees I hit approaches with
-PW
-4 iron
-SW
-SW
-Chip over the hill
-4 iron
-4 iron
-6 iron
-5 iron
Back nine (3900) from the gold tees I hit approaches with
-Half SW
-Half SW
-Half SW
-PW
-SW
-Half SW
-9I
-5I
-Hybrid
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Greg, thank you for this fantastic tour. I appreciated the commentary & the pictures.
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Awesome tour Greg...every time I read one of these I start looking at plane tickets and testing my wife's patience...
One question...so will a new clubhouse totally change the unique (or odd?) split between the length/par of the two nines? Does the "new clubhouse" site make the eventual numbering sequence of the 9s more equal?
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Greg
Thanks so much for sharing, I loved the pictures.
My wife and I are thinking about a return trip to Cabo next spring, this course is high on the list!
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How did the get equipment down to build those holes hanging off the cliff!!
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Awesome tour Greg...every time I read one of these I start looking at plane tickets and testing my wife's patience...
One question...so will a new clubhouse totally change the unique (or odd?) split between the length/par of the two nines? Does the "new clubhouse" site make the eventual numbering sequence of the 9s more equal?
Brad, I have no idea, just that the current site is not permanent
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Greg,what kind of turf?what kind of water source?
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Greg,what kind of turf?what kind of water source?
Paspalum and some form of mixture of treated water and desal.
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Great job Greg,
I look forward to playing it with you in December,it looks better than I thought it would considering the land they used.
It looks more playable than I imagined.
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How did the get equipment down to build those holes hanging off the cliff!!
John, I would imagined they pushed the sand down beginning from near the old lighthouse beside the 7th tee, shaped the 6th green and the CAREFULLY found their way to the are for the 6th tees and 5th green.
I was on site watching as they shaped some of the 5th tees and fairways and was amazed/shocked/terrified to see how close to the edge the D4 would get as he slowly pushed sand toward the Pacific to achieve the shelves that are now turf.
Would have liked to have watched the shaping and wall construction around the 5th green and 5th black tee. Would not have been on that crew for a million a month salary!
By the way the coolest spot on the entire property is the right side of a very cool, although temporary, practice facility with the best area to practice your tee ball I have seen. The right portion of the tee is set right in the beach with a narrow, perhaps 35 yards wide swath, split from the primary target areas by a massive dune. Now when they open the bar/snack area that will serve the practice facility on that side of the tee you'll have a great spot to spend an entire day... for now.
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Great job Greg,
I look forward to playing it with you in December,it looks better than I thought it would considering the land they used.
It looks more playable than I imagined.
Better hurry MWP as I may be PNG by that time. }
I will be playing it again in a couple of weeks with the esteemed Mr. Jim Lipe who had done the original routings on the property which look little like what you see today... I believe 6,7,8,9 are from Jim's routings as well as 15-17. #5 was not his thankfully. Some of the others may have been holes Jim identified for the second course as I'm pretty sure the 18 we see today has borrowed from both while introducing a few new holes to accommodate high end development close to the cliffs on the Diamante side where Jim had a few excellent holes. All in all it worked out pretty well. Will be interesting to get Jim's takes as we play.
Greens should be much better by the time of your visit and mid-December is just about the best possible time to visit this area... you are a wise man/golfer.
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Beautiful Tour! How many of the retail golfers will take a stab a driving #5? I know there is no landing area other than the green but seems like the perfect spot for a heavy slicing resort player.
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Beautiful Tour! How many of the retail golfers will take a stab a driving #5? I know there is no landing area other than the green but seems like the perfect spot for a heavy slicing resort player.
I suppose it is possible, I think it was quoted as only about 250 as the crow flies... but the bird would have trouble flying in that direction. Beyond that you have no idea if anyone is on the green. Heck we hit into people on our second shot as we had no clue there a group in front. Only tee that affords a decent look at the green is the black tee that, like the green, is walled in onto the side of the cliff. I was not joking when saying I wanted no part of walking down to that tee... too scary for me. Good spot for base jumper though.
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I will get you on that Black tee!!!!!!
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I will get you on that Black tee!!!!!!
Chances are like a bad Robert Downey Jr. movie from the late 80s.
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Greg-
Thanks for the tour; very interesting and informative. Need to get to Cabo one of these days . . .
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It is difficult to judge width from pictures but this course looks beautiful but brutally difficult in any sort of normal wind and impossible in a heavy wind. Remind me to bring some used balls when I inevitably visit the area again.
Did the owners want a beast or do you think the desire for dramatic visuals trumped thoughts of making the course playable?
Is there room to soften the course in the future?
Thanks for the tour Greg.
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It is difficult to judge width from pictures but this course looks beautiful but brutally difficult in any sort of normal wind and impossible in a heavy wind. Remind me to bring some used balls when I inevitably visit the area again.
Did the owners want a beast or do you think the desire for dramatic visuals trumped thoughts of making the course playable?
Is there room to soften the course in the future?
Thanks for the tour Greg.
Jason, No, I do not believe the owner or Jack were looking to create a beast. I simply think that, in spots, the effect of the wind was not properly factored into the width. Perhaps they fell in love with a look, like on 7 where the hole would be perfect if not for the wind. I could probably carry the second central bunker with no wind but as it is I struggled to squeeze a tee shot between the junk left and the first central hazard... probably 30-35 yards wide in that area with slightly less room on the right side. Similar look/issues at 15 from the tee before opening up for the second shots. Tough deal with a 20-30 MPH wind.
As noted they did provide plenty of room for the average guy on the approaches with the exceptions of the cliff side par 3s where there is no bail out.
Seemingly an easy fix as the "problem" is not present everywhere. I think with some considerable work on 5, softening of the central hazard/additional width on 7, a little more width on 8(right side), some kind of blending of the fairways on 11 and some rethinking of the 14th hole in general the golf course could be quite good. Perhaps some modest changes on the third as well.
For all my critiquing the course is, at worst, entertaining and definitely worth a play.
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Quite an aerial photo of the 5th hole in today's Golf World:
http://www.golfworlddigital.com/gw/20141201/?pg=11&pm=1&u1=friend#pg11 (http://www.golfworlddigital.com/gw/20141201/?pg=11&pm=1&u1=friend#pg11)
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Greg,
Thanks for the Photo tour! And thanks for taking the time to cart me around the ocean course last week! Next time maybe I'll bring my clubs.
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Quite an aerial photo of the 5th hole in today's Golf World:
http://www.golfworlddigital.com/gw/20141201/?pg=11&pm=1&u1=friend#pg11 (http://www.golfworlddigital.com/gw/20141201/?pg=11&pm=1&u1=friend#pg11)
Only way to get a shot of the entire hole!