Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Jason Thurman on May 25, 2014, 09:47:28 PM
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This game is simple. The person above you posts an architecturally relevant noun. You respond by deeming it overrated, underrated, or properly rated. Then name a noun of your own for the next person to evaluate.
I'll name the first:
The greens at Pebble Beach
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Properly rated. I have never played, but from what I seem they are interesting, but I am not a huge fan of tiny greens.
Crowned greens
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Potentially great in a Master's hands, a la 16 at Ravisloe, but generally overrated.
Water on Par 3's, e.g. Medinah #3.
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Overrated. Too penal. Most make a double with a bad swing. And i think you meant medinah #3, 2nd hole.
Driveable par 4.
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They are being used more and more and starting to become overrated. The drivable holes take away from what could possibly be an interesting/strategic drive and pitch hole, which seem to be increasingly rare nowadays.
Brutally difficult finishing hole
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Over rated. Great finishing holes allow for birdies and bogeys.
Center line bunkers.
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Properly rated for pros if there is sufficient width on either side and sufficient difference to each side for their to be a difference. For average golfers probably overrated as we tend to just drive straight at em safe in the knowledge that straight is the last place the ball is likely to go. Becoming a little too common.
Front to back sloping greens.
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Underrated. Not nearly enough of 'em IMO. I love holes where the correct miss is long, probably cause they're so rare these days.
The Biarritz Template
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Firm
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Fast
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Underrated. Not nearly enough of 'em IMO. I love holes where the correct miss is long, probably cause they're so rare these days.
The Biarritz Template
Not sure they really work all that well. (Its so hard to hit a 200 yard shot that straight for most golfers) But just the swale is so awesome visually.
Robert Trent Jones
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Firm: underrated.... it seems all too common for soft/green conditions (at least at many American courses)
Fast: properly rated; however, it is becoming overrated. I, and most people, enjoy faster conditions, but the speed should not compromise the intent of the architect. This seems to be a growing problem with the softening of contours nowadays.
Blind approach shots
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Firm: underrated.... it seems all too common for soft/green conditions (at least at many American courses)
Fast: properly rated; however, it is becoming overrated. I, and most people, enjoy faster conditions, but the speed should not compromise the intent of the architect. This seems to be a growing problem with the softening of contours nowadays.
Blind approach shots
agreed
firm under rated -often in an attempt to get too much of the fast.
Fast over rated-first greens, now fairways.
People need grass to play off, and it is becoming increasingly a rare commodity at the more expensive clubs.
and as you say the greens issue
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Robert Trent Jones
In the general golfing public, overrated. On GCA, underrated. I have a feeling that will be the case for many of these answers.
forced carries
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Forced carries - Underrated. Too much time is spent discussing how intimidating they are for high handicappers. Not enough time is spent discussing the satisfaction that high handicappers feel when they watch a good shot sail to safety on the other side. I've discussed this exact topic with many high handicappers and they generally enjoy forced carries provided they aren't too long to comfortably clear.
Renaissance Design
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Forced carries - Underrated. Too much time is spent discussing how intimidating they are for high handicappers. Not enough time is spent discussing the satisfaction that high handicappers feel when they watch a good shot sail to safety on the other side. I've discussed this exact topic with many high handicappers and they generally enjoy forced carries provided they aren't too long to comfortably clear.
Renaissance Design
On this site? Properly rated (dare I whisper "slightly overrated?"...naw). General golfing public? Vastly underrated...still. Whenever I run into a Denverite on a course up here in the mountains I ask if they've been to CommonGround. Al large percentage have not, and have never heard of it. Meanwhile they are paying exorbitant fees up here to play inferior courses with CG and Riverdale Dunes (Dye) down there. I don't get it.
Template holes
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Template holes - overrated, here anyway. They are oversimplifications of design that make it easy for someone with a little knowledge of golf architecture to pretend that he has a lot more. That includes many architects, who deploy them for the same reason -- because they make the members feel "enlightened" and arguments about the merits of the design are neutered. You're not allowed to criticize template holes, even on the grounds that they are unoriginal.
Tom Simpson
(P.S. to Jason: if a forced carry is not too long for the average player to comfortably clear, then what is the merit of it?)
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Underrated. I have not played any of his courses, but I am intrigued.
//RTJ's redesigns
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RTJ was just answered a few comments ago...I think this is correct:
Robert Trent Jones
In the general golfing public, overrated. On GCA, underrated. I have a feeling that will be the case for many of these answers.
forced carries
Heathland Courses - I would actually say properly rated. I would love to play several of them, but are they that much better than many other classic designs?
Punchbowl Greens
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(P.S. to Jason: if a forced carry is not too long for the average player to comfortably clear, then what is the merit of it?)
I don't like forced carries that ask "Are you capable of hitting it this far?" If the answer is "No," then the round ends. That sucks.
I do, however, find that virtually all high handicappers I talk with enjoy the occasional forced carry that, while manageable with a good shot, still stirs some nervousness in their stomach as they stand over the ball. High handicappers hit a lot of shanked, topped, fat, and generally weak shots. They also rarely stuff approaches tight and rattle off highlight-reel shots. As a result, watching a solid hit fly over 115 yards of water and safely to the fairway on the other side is often one of the most satisfying moments they experience on a course. The merit of the feature is the extra dose of nervousness and excitement it adds for the player standing over the ball, along with the upside of feeling the satisfaction of meeting the challenge. "Short enough to comfortably clear" with a good shot doesn't preclude the high handicapper from feeling uncomfortable before he hits it.
Punchbowl Greens
Overrated. They stink.
16 at Cypress Point.
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16th at Cypress Point.
Properly rated I'd say, it's one of the iconic holes in golf. Played it twice, never finished the hole. Both times hit two drives that a- l-m-o-s-t made it across. One actually made it across but on the beach beyond. Both times I looked around for my caddy and both times he was halfway around the cove so I was done. :P
Links courses
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Links courses
I will argue underated. The combination of wind, firm turf and weather that is crisp yet comfortable is hard to beat.
I am less sure about the next topic:
Wind
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I'd say wind is underrated if it's the 1-3 club variety. If it's blowing a steady 30+ mph it's overrated.
Half Par Holes
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I'd say wind is underrated if it's the 1-3 club variety. If it's blowing a steady 30+ mph it's overrated.
Half Par Holes
Properly rated - half under par holes are overrated because everyone likes a birdie. half over par holes are underrated for the opposite reason. Hence the properly rated.
Chicago as a golf town.
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I'd say wind is underrated if it's the 1-3 club variety. If it's blowing a steady 30+ mph it's overrated.
Half Par Holes
Properly rated - half under par holes are overrated because everyone likes a birdie. half over par holes are underrated for the opposite reason. Hence the properly rated.
Chicago as a golf town.
Underrated. It is one of my favorite cities in the world for golf, however, many people over look its greatness.
The Old Course
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I'd say wind is underrated if it's the 1-3 club variety. If it's blowing a steady 30+ mph it's overrated.
Half Par Holes
Properly rated - half under par holes are overrated because everyone likes a birdie. half over par holes are underrated for the opposite reason. Hence the properly rated.
Chicago as a golf town.
Underrated. It is one of my favorite cities in the world for golf, however, many people over look its greatness.
The Old Course
I already played earlier so I'll just disagree with Chicago being underrated. It's probably underrated if you are an out-of-towner or club member with connections to get on many of the private clubs, but for the average Joe Schmoe, the public options are woeful values and the schlep through traffic to get out there is downright depressing. I played Jackson Park on the reg just because living in the city it's the only place you could get to in less than 45 minutes. Sure, if you've never been and can GV it on in on a weekend and whip it around Butler, Chicago, Shoreacres, etc, it's a dream. That being said, Harborside is a decent track and Pine Meadow up in Mundelein is pretty solid for the 99%ers.
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I'd say wind is underrated if it's the 1-3 club variety. If it's blowing a steady 30+ mph it's overrated.
Half Par Holes
Properly rated - half under par holes are overrated because everyone likes a birdie. half over par holes are underrated for the opposite reason. Hence the properly rated.
Chicago as a golf town.
Underrated. It is one of my favorite cities in the world for golf, however, many people over look its greatness.
The Old Course
TOC? I think its over-rated, under-rated and just about right rated - is there any other way to look at it?
Great Courses
Ciao
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The halfway hut/Cart/any food served during golf.
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The halfway hut/Cart/any food served during golf.
Underrated. Not enough places have them and it doesn't cost much to make the day a more enjoyable experience.
This from a man who also champions on here cooked club breakfasts and a 3 course lunch. ;D