Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Jason Thurman on March 24, 2014, 03:46:41 PM
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My last visit to Lawsonia was a few years ago, when they had only cleared a few trees behind the 14th green. In the following 18 months or so, they cleared all the trees behind 14 to restore the hole to its appearance in old photos.
I recall being a lone voice of dissent when the trees behind 14 were cleared. While I love open vistas and air flow and sunlight, I also loved the 2008 version of the 14th hole. In the middle of this expansive journey through the back nine came this brief 200 yard journey into the woods as you entered the 13th green and then played the 14th hole. Time seemed to stop, the surroundings grew quiet and still, and a well-struck ball echoed and traced its flight against a deep green backdrop as it flew to the treacherous green. On a course with a fantastic set of par 3s, the 14th was an average hole that more than held its own only because of its unique ambiance in the context of the round.
That's all gone now. The trees have been leveled and the hole's character returned closer to its origin. I'm sure the once-mottled putting surface has seen its turf improve. And yet, I didn't love it when the first few trees were cleared, and I hated the idea of further clearing. Now, I'm told, the course has removed ALL the trees on its back nine, which will be odd to see in photos and probably even odder in person.
Of course, Lawsonia also dropped about 50 spots in this year's Golfweek ratings. There have been a few explanations offered, but none of them make much sense based on reports from people who have been to the course directly. Is it possible that Lawsonia's precipitous drop is partially related to a once excellent tree program that went rogue?
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Jason,
I really liked the tree removal behind the 14th green when I saw it last fall. It makes the green look far more dramatic and interesting from the tee, and I like that you can now see the 15th tee from the 14th hole. And, you can now see Green Lake from the 14th green.
I see what you're saying about the trees around the 13th green, but I always thought that they were out of place with the rest of the course. I haven't seen any pictures of the recent removal, but I'm guessing the approach to the 13th green will be improved as it will now be a pretty neat "skyline" green.
I don't think tree removal has anything to do with the Links dropping on Golfweek's Classic list. Candidly, it's drop makes absolutely no sense to me. As I said before, Lawsonia's conditioning has continued to improve on my visits, and last fall it was in fantastic shape with legit fast green speeds and firm turf.
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Jason, there are enough trees still there. The ones behind the green are gone. Some to either side of the par 3 corridor were thinned. But, it isn't devoid of trees. The course played as firm and fast andd true rolls as I have ever seen it in Sept. when I was there with Pete Pittock. I think any drop in the almighty rankings is just a matter of too many great courses, not enough slots to rank them all, and so there is 'bracket or slot creep'.
If a person wants trees at Lawsonia, they need only pay for a round on the "Woodlands Course" there. ;D
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The tree removal has been outstanding, in my opinion. I thought 14 really needed it, and I was glad to see that it got some when I was out in 2013. I'd like to see more there. At that point I really wanted to see more come down at 13. I don't think that 13 'needed it' as much as 14, but I do think it'll be an improvement, and I'm sure it'll help with the green's turf. So if that's happened I can't wait to see it this summer. For my money, all the trees in that corner should go. In addition to just simply preferring it that way, I thought that corner was incongruous with the rest of the course.
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the tree removal was a good thing, great course
the drop in ratings might be related to an event there when the course not in good condition, who knows ::)
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There was a GW rater retreat in May that included a visit to Lawsonia.
It was late spring after a tough winter and the course showed it. Lots of die back. Many dead patches of grass in fairways and on a number of greens. This may have something to do with it dropping so many places. 20-30 raters giving low scores could bring it down and could have something to do with it.
My 2 cents.
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Yes, last April was brutal. Jus about every course here in Whisky was suffering.
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I love the trees gone!
I can't wait to see all of the trees that were removed this past winter from 13 and what was left on 14. Once the season opens might have to play a round to see the improvement. I bet it will be awesome.
Steve Blake
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Pay no attention to those men behind the curtains!
The great and mighty raters have spoken!
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Considering whether tree clearance can go too far is a potentially interesting topic. But to pretend that a ratings drop (or rise) somewhere down in the pack has anything at all to do with the quality of the golf course? Silly.
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There was a GW rater retreat in May that included a visit to Lawsonia.
It was late spring after a tough winter and the course showed it. Lots of die back. Many dead patches of grass in fairways and on a number of greens. This may have something to do with it dropping so many places. 20-30 raters giving low scores could bring it down and could have something to do with it.
My 2 cents.
If that's the case, I think they should have foregone one of the rounds and had Brad lecture on looking past conditioning (or at least trying to understand why things are the way they are) and seeing the merits of the course. Would have been time better spent.
Sven
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It appears Lawsonia dropped in the polls due the triple whammy of a drought in 2012 that resulted in Green Lake County being declared a national disaster area in summer of 2012 and winter kill exacerbated by a miserable spring that didn't allow them time to recover from the drought and winter until June. I visited over the 4th of July weekend last year and no doubt saw a very different course than what was there 4-5 weeks earlier. It was in fine condition.
Here is a photo from late September 2012 showing how dry Lawsonia was at the end of the season in 2012. The course was clearly stressed heading into the winter.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/Lawsonia-3875_zpsac00bb7d.jpg)
Here is another photo showing Lawsonia July 4th weekend once the course had a chance to recover. Lush and beautiful.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/Lawsonia-7291_zps2d167ab8.jpg)
The greens in the trees on 13 and 14 have always struggled. I think it is a great move to clear the area of non-original evergreens that engulfed those greens to give them more light and airflow like the rest of the greens on the course.
Here is 14 many years ago. No evergreens in this photo.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/Lawsonia/Lawsonia14th.jpg)
Here is what 14 looked before any tree removal. Claustrophobically tight.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/Lawsonia-3439_zps12078211.jpg)
Here is what it looked like in late 2012 after trees on the right (south) and behind the the green were removed.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/_MG_3789.jpg)
I think the tree removal will look great as it will open up some wide open vistas from the high point of the course on the back nine that will be great. Imagine these views without the trees.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/Lawsonia-3415_zpsd5f259f9.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/Lawsonia-3417_zps973bb163.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/Lawsonia-3422_zpsc251a1f4.jpg)
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There was a GW rater retreat in May that included a visit to Lawsonia.
It was late spring after a tough winter and the course showed it. Lots of die back. Many dead patches of grass in fairways and on a number of greens. This may have something to do with it dropping so many places. 20-30 raters giving low scores could bring it down and could have something to do with it.
My 2 cents.
Does the host club get greens fee revenue from the panelist outings? A cautionary tale for having a large group of raters out in less than ideal conditions.
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Dan,
It's probably the Brit in me but those late 2012 photos look perfect. Far preferable to the July '13 greenery. Lawsonia remains the course that has most exceeded my expectations.
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It would truly be sad if maintenance were an issue in evaluating architecture.
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It would truly be sad if maintenance were an issue in evaluating architecture.
Adam I agree. I loved the course and could see the great architecture.
The guys I played with complained abouth the conditions, said they just didn't get it and couldn't believe it was rated so high. I'm not sure if they had heard about Lawsonia prior or not but they were on the trip to play Whistling Straights and the other Kohler courses.
Out of our foursome I was the only one that liked the course. The others said they liked the Woodland course more. I didn't see it that way.
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It would truly be sad if maintenance were an issue in evaluating architecture.
Maybe only the blueprints should be evaluated? I'm sure conditioning could be overrated on either end of the spectrum, but I have no problem with it being a factor. The ability to ignore subpar conditioning can't be all that different than those who prize "perfect" conditioning. At the end of the day, the golf course is getting rated as an aid to people who might use the ratings to decide to play a course. I'm guessing that a good maintenance meld would be seen as a positive by people who actually use the ratings.
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Terry I agree the maintenance meld of a course is important part of evaluating architecture and getting that right makes the architecture and the course shine. The issue here though is whether a brief period of poor conditions caused by exceptional weather circumstances should have been overlooked when rating a course that had been consistently in the middle half of the Top 100.
Lawsonia has been steadily improving since they hired Ron Forse in the 00's. I'm confident course conditions and the overall golf experience at Lawsonia will continue to improve now that Oliphant of Madison (who is partnering with Mike Keiser on Sand Valley) is in charge of both the course and the clubhouse operations.
Personally I can't wait to see the tree removal around 13 and 14.
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It would truly be sad if maintenance were an issue in evaluating architecture.
+2
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It would truly be sad if maintenance were an issue in evaluating architecture.
Maybe only the blueprints should be evaluated? I'm sure conditioning could be overrated on either end of the spectrum, but I have no problem with it being a factor. The ability to ignore subpar conditioning can't be all that different than those who prize "perfect" conditioning. At the end of the day, the golf course is getting rated as an aid to people who might use the ratings to decide to play a course. I'm guessing that a good maintenance meld would be seen as a positive by people who actually use the ratings.
Terry, An example of your statement is Beverly. When our maintenance practices became admittedly very marginal the Bev tumbled from the top !00. 2 years after turning the ship around Beverly is at a very respectable position, #93 amongst the Golfweek classics. Poor conditioning affects the view of raters first impressions- if it looks ratty the course will get dinged a few points. Lawsonia has always looked great when I've visited.
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Conditioning probably doesn't matter when evaluating architecture alone, but it has to matter when evaluating golf courses. The ratings attempt (very poorly, I'm convinced) to do the latter, not the former.
Mark, I think most of us would be excited to play the course shown in Dan's September 2012 photo. However, I think his point is that with a harsh Wisconsin winter about to hit the course was very dry and the turf stressed. The stressed turf combined with 4 or 5 months of snow and ice coverage is a recipe for winter kill out there.
It's funny to read Adam's quote:
It would truly be sad if maintenance were an issue in evaluating architecture.
Isn't one of the main reasons for tree removal the improved playing conditions?
I'm totally on board with that by the way, and I also think the views will be impressive if they've really pulled out as many as has been alleged. But even with the poor airflow and sunlight in the prior version, I really enjoyed walking into that corner of the property for 200 yards or so, especially in late fall when the air got a little colder in the shadows and you could feel the looming winter just a few weeks away. It was just a special place in the routing for me, and I may be alone on GCA but I'm surely not alone among people who used to play Lawsonia frequently.
Hopefully I can get back there when I go to Wisconsin for work at the end of April. I'd like to see how it's changed over the last 2 years or so. I'd be happy to meet up with anyone who's interested.
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Dan,
Are they going to remove the trees to the sides of the tee box on the par 3 (the chute)? The chute is kinda of cool, really like them if they are pulled off well. I do agree the tree removal behind the green would be an improvement. (Just going by photos, never played).
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Ben,
We'll have to see to be sure but the chute is gone from what I hear.
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It would truly be sad if maintenance were an issue in evaluating architecture.
Maybe only the blueprints should be evaluated? I'm sure conditioning could be overrated on either end of the spectrum, but I have no problem with it being a factor. The ability to ignore subpar conditioning can't be all that different than those who prize "perfect" conditioning. At the end of the day, the golf course is getting rated as an aid to people who might use the ratings to decide to play a course. I'm guessing that a good maintenance meld would be seen as a positive by people who actually use the ratings.
Terry, An example of your statement is Beverly. When our maintenance practices became admittedly very marginal the Bev tumbled from the top !00. 2 years after turning the ship around Beverly is at a very respectable position, #93 amongst the Golfweek classics. Poor conditioning affects the view of raters first impressions- if it looks ratty the course will get dinged a few points. Lawsonia has always looked great when I've visited.
As well conditioned as Beverly is, though, my guess is that it's in a lot better condition in mid-summer than mid-May (at least that's been my experience). It's unfortunate if Lawsonia dropped in the rankings due to conditioning issues based on a rater retreat held at a time of year when the course couldn't possibly be expected to be in its best condition. For all I know they took that into account and it was in bad shape even for that time of year.
Conditioning certainly needs to be one of the factors that go into a course rating (as Terry noted, you're reviewing the course, not the blueprints), but if I were rating a course and the greens had just been punched (for example), or if a portion of the course were under construction, I couldn't possibly justify dinging the course for that reason, because it's common and necessary to punch the greens a couple times per year or do some bunker work from time to time. It's also fairly common for Midwestern courses to be in rough shape at the beginning of the season. You'd hope the raters would have the common sense to allow for that in their review. Also, maybe don't schedule a rater retreat at an upper Midwestern course at a time of year when the course is almost certain to not be in its best shape.
To Jason's point about tree removal improving the conditions, when we were up the for the Mashie a few years ago, I thought 14 had the worst conditioned tee box on the course. Of course, it's tee box, so it wasn't that big of a deal (albeit a par 3 tee box). Hopefully the tree removal goes a long way toward rectifying that.
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Dan,
It's probably the Brit in me but those late 2012 photos look perfect. Far preferable to the July '13 greenery.
Agree with that, it looks it's really humming in the 2012 pics...a sort of Royal Melbourne feel to it...
Thats what I was thinking. Often times there will be spotty areas if a course is really pushed (for whatever reason). In any case, conditioning should only really be a factor in design evaluation if its exceptional either way. For me, its mainly the 12 month courses which play very well in all seasons which will get a boost in my evaluation, but its quite rare either way. That said, there are few more wonderful things in golf than to be playing a zippy course in great nick - its ever so rare in my experience.
Ciao
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To my UK friends, yes it was really humming Fall of 2012 and that is the ideal way to play Lawsonia. That's why Lawsonia always shines brightest in September and October when things cool off and they can let the greens dry out. However that particular year there was way too much dead grass in the fairways and around the greens. Its not fun trying to play recovery shots up to those plateau greens from baked dirt. It didn't just go dormant and bouncy back with some rain. The course was very drought stressed going into winter and that apparently caused more problems than usual coming into Spring.
I will soon see how Deal, Rye and Royal St. George's play after a winter of flooding. That should be interesting too.
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Out of our foursome I was the only one that liked the course. The others said they liked the Woodland course more. I didn't see it that way.
Mike,
I hope that the bolded statement above is some sort of joke.
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More vallelujah than hallelujah. Lawsonia never impressed me much perhaps because I grew up playing a L&M and had seen it all before.
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my impression is that most folks who work at Lawsonia and live in the area really don't know what a gem they have there
however the few that do, really are blessed and I'm glad to see the trees removed, and normal improvements and maintenance get dialed in despite it's movement in the ratings
for me it's always interesting how courses in WI, MN, IL, NY, NJ, MA, NJ, PA, etc... close for winter and then get back to optimum for the golf season
additionally, most of not all the privates in those states have dues throughout the winter closure which helps with a maintenance budget
I don't think Lawsonia has a big budget for anything, and it's still a great place
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Willgee, the Oliphant Company - which is becoming a top tier golf services company has the management contract and know golf from the ground-up. I think the reasonable green fee structure comes from the basic philosophy of the Baptist Assembly, that leases the operation out, which is not so much about maximizing profit as they are concerned with the feeling of fellowship and spirituality that can be found for many that wish to get away to this sort of retreat environment.
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Can anyone identify the types of trees in the old Lawsonia photo? None of them are evergreens like in the recent photos. Could they have been Elms that caught Dutch Elm? It seems like they overplanted to with Evergreens to compensate.
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Can anyone identify the types of trees in the old Lawsonia photo? None of them are evergreens like in the recent photos. Could they have been Elms that caught Dutch Elm? It seems like they overplanted to with Evergreens to compensate.
From an expert:
The photos a little grainy but I think it's a birch on the right and there may be some pine in the back left. If I had to guess I'd say the rest is likely a mix of oak and maybe some aspen.
Do we have a date for the photo?
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No but I suspect 1950's. Any idea why the deciduous trees would have disappeared?
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A majority of the trees are in fact white pines . They will reach a height of 80-110 feet and a lifespan of over 100 yrs. I have about 450 white pines on my property some of which were planted in the late 1890's. Looking closely at the picture I see a few red and pin oaks but no aspens.
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I finally got to experience Lawsonia Links yesterday and it did not disappoint. The greens were in great shape and the overall condition of the course was excellent. I loved the layout and look forward to playing again soon!
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While the tree clearing on 13 and 14 has obvious benefits for the turf quality on those greens, perhaps the best thing about it is the change to depth perception it provides to the tee shot on 14. While a fine hole with a green with some nice movement in it, club selection was never much of an issue on the hole with all the tree cover. Now the combo of visual deception and more potential wind makes it a much more interesting tee shot IMO.
Jason,
I disagree with you about the "heading into the woods feel". If anything those holes stuck out as out of character with the rest of the course and now will be more of a piece as well as closer to the original intent. The only potential downside I see is me blading a tee shot on 14 while you're standing on the 15th tee at next year's Mashie. :)
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On Friday, I returned to Lawsonia for the first time in three years with an assist from GCAer and plus-handicap photographer Dan Moore.
I began playing the course back in 2009. At that time, the bulk of Ron Forse's renovation work had been done and the course had begun to reclaim some acclaim. At the time, it immediately became my favorite of any course I had played. A few courses have passed it since, but it has always held a special place in my golfing history and my fondness for it partly explains why I joined a Langford and Moreau club a few years later. Nevertheless, it always felt like the course had some unrealized potential. Primarily, I found it to be a bit limited by frequently too-slow playing surfaces and a back nine that never seemed to match the character of an extraordinary front side.
It doesn't appear that the last three years have seen dramatic changes at the course. Quite a few trees have been cut down and one or two original bunkers reclaimed, but most of the work could have been completed in a week or so by a good maintenance staff. And yet, the difference is dramatic.
Much of the discussion of the tree clearing has focused on the 14th hole. After seeing it in person, I must agree that the 14th is a better hole today without the trees surrounding its corridor than it was three years ago when tucked in an enclave of pines. And yet, the tree removal around the 14th hole has had a far more significant effect on holes like 10 and 13, which are dramatically better today. From the 10th green, one can see the 14th running just below and it gives a feeling of intimacy and drama to the routing that wasn't there previously, while also giving a really cool viewing angle of the engineering of the 14th green itself. 13, which might be my favorite par 5 in the world, has also been drastically improved with better sight lines from the tee and the reclamation of the original fronting bunker, which I took the opportunity to play from when my approach ballooned into the steady 25+ mph wind and left a plugged lie some 10 feet below the putting surface.
10 in 2010:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6074/6143089328_feb41157f7_z.jpg)
10 in 2014:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3871/15130213637_4df3b36390_z.jpg)
13 tee in 2010:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6064/6142541367_be8fa09d64_z.jpg)
13 tee in 2014:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5568/15293678276_a66ffce158_z.jpg)
13 from ~200 yards out in 2010:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6062/6142542437_21af55bb6c_z.jpg)
13 approach in 2014:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/15129977029_2abb1c1d5c_z.jpg)
Lawsonia is no longer a well-kept secret. The staff, finally, seems to recognize how special the Links course is. Golfers are following suit. The guys I played with were from Madison and discussed other courses they play regularly almost apologetically, as though they know that places like Hawks Landing and University Ridge are slums by comparison. The conditioning also finally reflects the principles of the Links course. It played faster and firmer than any bentgrass course I've played before, and even the recently top-dressed greens were firm enough to send wedge shots bouncing through. Coupled with sustained winds approaching 30 mph, and Lawsonia last Friday was hitting a gear that it never came close to in my previous half-dozen rounds there.
One thing that stood out was the course's ability to engage all types of players. I had a Jekyll and Hyde round. I was 12-over on the front nine with a driver that I couldn't control in the wind, and yet, the course was playable even if I couldn't score. On the back side, I started to hit the ball very well with birdies at 10, 11, and 15. I thought I might break par for the back nine until we turned back into the wind on 17 and I closed with a pair of double-bogeys. Yet, even with my game peaking as I hit 5 of the first 7 greens on the back, the toll that the course takes for imprecision was on full display. A near-perfect approach at 13 came up just short and left an impossible up and down. Hitting 11 in two still left a severely difficult two-putt, as did hitting the back portion of the green on 14. Simply put, the course's intrinsic balance, ability to challenge strong players while accommodating weak ones, and its greatly improved conditioning and aesthetics have made it arguably the best public course in Wisconsin today. The fact that its ranking in Golfweek has fallen over the last three years is an embarrassment.
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The guys I played with were from Madison and discussed other courses they play regularly almost apologetically, as though they know that places like Hawks Landing and University Ridge are slums by comparison.
Best-written line on GCA (Wisconsin annex) this year. ;D
Jason:
Good to see you enjoyed your round at Lawsonia; I think without question it's the best public option in the state, and for several of the reasons you point out: current maintenance practices "fitting" the course as Langford intended; the nature of tree removal opening up broader vistas throughout the course; and a course that remains a challenge for the low-handicapper as well as the bogey (or more!) golfer who enjoys a day on the links. Few courses have that range of appeal.
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The next 3-4 weeks at Lawsonia are the best WI has to offer, IMHO. Note to self... must get there within that time frame ;D
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Jason,
Glad to see the course is in top nick and that you like the changes. Only quibble is I find it hard to believe the 13th is really that good when the layup for hacks like me leaves an uphill shot short of the gully from a downhill lie, while the big sticks can have a nice pitch from the uphill after the gully. I heartily agree that it's the best public option in the state currently, not to mention much better value than a couple of its higher rated brethren.
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love #10, great hole that looks way shorter than it plays...great deception :)
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love #10, great hole that looks way shorter than it plays...great deception :)
The 10th hole for your viewing pleasure.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/lawsonia10-2930_zps2b9cae1c.jpg)
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Thanks for the update Jason. Dan's pictures are great...would love to see more if you're willing to post.
As I've said before, the golf course was in fantastic shape last October. I'd have to imagine that after this quality growing weather we've had in the upper Midwest that the course is in even better shape this year.
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Just played both courses at Lawsonia on Saturday. Both courses are in great shape and the tree removal made the Links course even better.
It makes no sense that they dropped in the ratings. Maybe not enough raters or something?
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Playing 36 there on Saturday. I CAN'T wait!
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Played 36 at Lawsonia on Saturday. I was blown away by the course’s presentation. I have played Lawsonia on two previous occasions – the most recent of which was 2-3 years ago – and the course continues to get better every time I play it. This past weekend the course played about as perfect as is possible.
The greens had been punched, but they were probably 95% back to perfection and they rolled true and were FIRM & FAST! The knock on Lawsonia had always been that the greens were too slow to take advantage of the amazing contours, but that is not the case any more. There was enough speed in them to induce fear if you found yourself on the wrong side of the hole – which happens all the time. We had several players in our group putt off greens (mostly on #16 from above the hole). The firmness was also very impressive with only well struck balls having any check on them. We played Erin Hills on Sunday and to a man everyone thought the condition and playing characteristics of the greens (and the rest of the course) at Lawsonia were head and shoulders above EH’s greens. And that is not to say EH’s greens were bad – Lawsonia’s were just that good.
I also experienced the recent changes that continue to improve the course:
- Tree clearing at #2, around #10, #13 green and #14: All I can say is WOW! Those holes feel much more connected to the rest of the course and open up amazing vistas across the back nine.
- New (restored) bunkers: I can’t name them all, but there were definitely more there than the last time I played the course. The obvious restorations were the greenside bunker at #13 (!!) and on #7.
We had twelve guys ranging from +2 to 17 handicaps and all but one fell in love with the course. Many preferred it to Erin Hills.
This most recent trip served to confirm my thoughts that Lawsonia is one of my favorite golf courses on the planet. Did I mention we paid $100 for all-day golf?
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This most recent trip served to confirm my thoughts that Lawsonia is one of my favorite golf courses on the planet. Did I mention we paid $100 for all-day golf?
Lawsonia is not in Kansas anymore.
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"The Lure of Lawsonia is Stronger in 2014 as Tree Removal Project Revitalizes The Links Course"
http://www.golfwisconsin.com/articles/article.cfm?ID=2192
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Finally, we have an overriding focus on customer service. Everything we do is about putting the customer first.
JK- put that in your pipe and gnaw on it.... 8)
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Finally, we have an overriding focus on customer service. Everything we do is about putting the customer first.
JK- put that in your pipe and gnaw on it.... 8)
This is from the link. $145 all day play rate on the weekends. I aways thought Lawsonia was selling value.
5) Anything else you'd like to add about the property?
First off all thank you so much for this opportunity Brian. I can't think of a better place in the state to play 36 holes in one day and feel like you traveled miles and miles to do so. The contrast from Northern Wisconsin within The Woodlands Course's dramatic forest and wildlife, to the Links Course and the feel of playing in the British Open! We have a great all day rate all season long here for just $105 weekdays and $145 on the weekends as well as houses on property to bring the group and stay. Don't forget about our full service restaurant and bar Langford's Pub, serving food and your favorite beverages and food daily. For more information on Lawsonia, make sure to visit their website at www.lawsonia.com or call the pro shop at (920) 294-3320.
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Finally, we have an overriding focus on customer service. Everything we do is about putting the customer first.
JK- put that in your pipe and gnaw on it.... 8)
This is from the link. $145 all day play rate on the weekends. I aways thought Lawsonia was selling value.
John:
Get out from under your table of bid sheets and come up to Wisconsin; in one week (starting Oct. 6) the walking rate for 18 at Lawsonia drops to $35 (and $25 after 1 p.m., and you can still get in 18 starting at that time up here). I'm not sure there is a better value in all of golf. Worth seeing; it's been 6 years or so, hasn't it? ;D A lot has changed since then... http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32829.0.html
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This reminds me of another course that believed their Golfweek ranking and raised fees to soon go out of business. If you think Jesus saves go to Golfnow and see what they are really getting. Besides the shaft, that is.
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Finally, we have an overriding focus on customer service. Everything we do is about putting the customer first.
JK- put that in your pipe and gnaw on it.... 8)
This is from the link. $145 all day play rate on the weekends. I aways thought Lawsonia was selling value.
John:
Get out from under your table of bid sheets and come up to Wisconsin; in one week (starting Oct. 6) the walking rate for 18 at Lawsonia drops to $35 (and $25 after 1 p.m., and you can still get in 18 starting at that time up here). I'm not sure there is a better value in all of golf. Worth seeing; it's been 6 years or so, hasn't it? ;D A lot has changed since then... http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32829.0.html
Phil,
Thanks for the link. I feel like I am sinking into that America's Club demo. Maybe someday.
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Did Lawsonia go too far?
No.
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NO, if anything, not far enough....
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NO, if anything, not far enough....
Frank:
They are about 90 percent there -- there are very few trees that realistically come into play anymore on the course, and those may not be long for the world. And there are still some bunkers to be restored, but those aren't cheap -- my sense is that they are on the drawing board, and it's simply a matter of pacing those out over a period of years to absorb the cost in the course's operating budget.
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No- 13 may be one of the finest par 5s in the country now. We had fantastic firm and fast conditions when I was there this summer. I brought two lawsonia "virgins" with me and they were completely blown away. One day the masses will wake up and realize how amazing this place is.
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I just got back from my first round at Lawsonia, and it was awesome. I cant believe that picture of 14 with all the trees! I believe that it is a far better hole now, and 13 is far better without the trees as well. If you lay up down in the valley, you have no aiming point with the trees gone, further adding to the dilemma of deciding to reach the green in two.
There are definitely a few trees that I could stand to see go (tee shot on 5 comes to mind) but I think they have done a remarkable job looking at old pictures. I cant believe the course has fallen in the rankings. The course was in perfect condition this weekend. Hopefully it isn't another hard winter and the turf can be great right from the start of the season.
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After playing 36 holes there yesterday in an Illinois vs. Wisconsin competition organized by Dan Moore (I got to play for Wisconsin -- a once-in-a-lifetime "opportunity"), I would like to answer the thread's title. My answer is: NO!
Terrific place to play golf, and getting better all the time.
The fewer the trees (e.g., Nos. 10, 13 and 14), the bolder the architecture looks.
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After playing 36 holes there yesterday in an Illinois vs. Wisconsin competition organized by Dan Moore (I got to play for Wisconsin -- a once-in-a-lifetime "opportunity"), I would like to answer the thread's title. My answer is: NO!
Terrific place to play golf, and getting better all the time.
The fewer the trees (e.g., Nos. 10, 13 and 14), the bolder the architecture looks.
Agreed. The hole is a terrific short par 3 and does not need trees. While the greens at the course are in fabulous condition one can see the benefits of removing trees by comparing the condition of the hole in question to that of the 7th where the grass is comparatively thin. Add some significant weather stress and I suspect the difference would become more dramatic.
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There was a GW rater retreat in May that included a visit to Lawsonia.
It was late spring after a tough winter and the course showed it. Lots of die back. Many dead patches of grass in fairways and on a number of greens. This may have something to do with it dropping so many places. 20-30 raters giving low scores could bring it down and could have something to do with it.
My 2 cents.
I wondered how this place could have dropped so quickly.
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After playing 36 holes there yesterday in an Illinois vs. Wisconsin competition organized by Dan Moore (I got to play for Wisconsin -- a once-in-a-lifetime "opportunity"), I would like to answer the thread's title. My answer is: NO!
Terrific place to play golf, and getting better all the time.
The fewer the trees (e.g., Nos. 10, 13 and 14), the bolder the architecture looks.
Agreed. The hole is a terrific short par 3 and does not need trees. While the greens at the course are in fabulous condition one can see the benefits of removing trees by comparing the condition of the hole in question to that of the 7th where the grass is comparatively thin. Add some significant weather stress and I suspect the difference would become more dramatic.
Jason,
Did you finally make your first visit to Lawsonia?
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After playing 36 holes there yesterday in an Illinois vs. Wisconsin competition organized by Dan Moore (I got to play for Wisconsin -- a once-in-a-lifetime "opportunity"), I would like to answer the thread's title. My answer is: NO!
Terrific place to play golf, and getting better all the time.
The fewer the trees (e.g., Nos. 10, 13 and 14), the bolder the architecture looks.
Agreed. The hole is a terrific short par 3 and does not need trees. While the greens at the course are in fabulous condition one can see the benefits of removing trees by comparing the condition of the hole in question to that of the 7th where the grass is comparatively thin. Add some significant weather stress and I suspect the difference would become more dramatic.
Jason,
Did you finally make your first visit to Lawsonia?
Yes. Loved it.
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After playing 36 holes there yesterday in an Illinois vs. Wisconsin competition organized by Dan Moore (I got to play for Wisconsin -- a once-in-a-lifetime "opportunity"), I would like to answer the thread's title. My answer is: NO!
Terrific place to play golf, and getting better all the time.
The fewer the trees (e.g., Nos. 10, 13 and 14), the bolder the architecture looks.
Agreed. The hole is a terrific short par 3 and does not need trees. While the greens at the course are in fabulous condition one can see the benefits of removing trees by comparing the condition of the hole in question to that of the 7th where the grass is comparatively thin. Add some significant weather stress and I suspect the difference would become more dramatic.
Jason,
Did you finally make your first visit to Lawsonia?
Yes. Loved it.
When you have time let's get together for a beer, would be interested to hear specifics of what you thought!
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Sorry you missed the fun Pat.
Here are a couple of shots of Lawsonia in the Fall.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/Lawsonia102014-4853_zps9393be51.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/Lawsonia102014-4863_zpse2fdf4b0.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/Lawsonia102014-4875_zps8277351f.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/Lawsonia102014-4892_zpsa208ba0f.jpg)
And the site of Jason's match winning birdie, still glowing in the Fall sun.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/Lawsonia102014-4645-2_zpsb8ed341e.jpg)
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Thank you for those pics Dan. They may be some of the best I have ever seen and why I think Lawsonia is the magic course in fall. So sorry I had to miss it. I am hoping for next year in fall.