Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Wade Whitehead on February 13, 2014, 05:38:32 PM
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GCAers:
You are cordially invited to participate in the fourth annual Saul Shootout for The George Cup at Ballyhack Golf Club just outside Roanoke, Virginia.
This year's formal competition will take place on Saturday, October 4. Like previous years, players will complete twenty-seven holes followed by dinner and The Quiz. I will share format details closer to the date, but expect a reprise of the wildly popular/convoluted method I've used in the past. As in past years, Saul Shootout participants may add play on Friday, October 3 and/or Sunday, October 5 and are invited to stay and eat on-site at Ballyhack. On-site lodging is limited, and I plan on an event of 20 or fewer players.
2013 Champion Kevin Lynch surely plans to repeat and will, I know, welcome all challengers.
As you may have heard, Ballyhack was recently selected to host the 2014 Virginia State Open in July. The club's reputation for service, excellent accommodations, and world-class golf continues to build and reflects the tremendous efforts placed by staff. It will be a treat to welcome you to my favorite golf course in the world and to play a fast and firm game across a truly strategic routing.
Exact cost is to be determined but shouldn't be much more than previous years. While preference will be given to past supporters of the event, I welcome any GCAer interested in attending.
If interested, please message me. I'm also glad to answer any questions you have.
Thanks for your interest.
WW
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Wade, I'm in. I will be retired so I can be present the whole weekend!!
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I am hoping at some point to get wider play at Ballyhack by those who participate on this site. I am curious how the course would be received. This fall will be my 3rd Saul Shootout and I really look forward to it.
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I am looking forward to the event! There is nothing else like it.
For photos of Ballyhack, see here: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,52757.25.html
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I am hoping at some point to get wider play at Ballyhack by those who participate on this site. I am curious how the course would be received. This fall will be my 3rd Saul Shootout and I really look forward to it.
I don't think I'll be able to attend The George Cup, but I do plan to stop at Ballyhack on the way to a wedding south of DC this spring. It looks like an awesome course and I'd encourage anyone who can attend to do so, based on my experience that GCA events at destination clubs are about as much fun as golf gets.
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Ballyhack is a neat course that will test every part of your game. Great visually and I am interested in heading down for another crack at it.
Wade - I sent an IM.
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Wade, I'm in for your event at Ballyhack. pictures are stunning that I have seen,is it as difficult as it looks. Thanks
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Wade, I'm in for your event at Ballyhack. pictures are stunning that I have seen,is it as difficult as it looks. Thanks
Ballyhack has a very high slope and the first time it is played can be very difficult because the elevation changes make pulling the right stick difficult. After you figure out distances and get a feel as to where to hit it off the tee, you can score. It just takes a couple of plays. It is great course and a great club.
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Gents:
Ballyhack reveals itself through repeated play. There are so many options and it's a much wider place than many perceive on first glance.
I have fifteen RSVPs at present (assuming Jason Jones, who's a current maybe). We're offering a very special prize for our winner this year, and the event should be the best yet.
WW
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Give us an update Wade. Are we full. If not , lets get this event filled up. Looks like a fantastic place
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That first tee looks frightening....what's the carry over the gulch? What is slope/rating?
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It's a great event at a great course. I'm hoping to make it again this year if only to trash talk my man Kevin.
I usually hit hybrid or 5 metal off the first tee, it's not a huge carry.
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It's a great event at a great course. I'm hoping to make it again this year if only to trash talk my man Kevin.
I usually hit hybrid or 5 metal off the first tee, it's not a huge carry.
It wouldn't be the same without the trash-talking! But I'll be trying to help my man Chris DeNigris out of his George Cup slump.
Keith -1st tee is mostly visual intimidation, not a bad carry at all, especially from the middle tees. Even from the absolute tips, it's not bad (perhaps 230?). One year, Wade took us all the way back for a round, when it dawned on him I was playing my hickories that day. But when it landed, the celebration was on!
Actually, the scary part of #1 is the false front on the green. It's not unusual to hit #1 green 2-3 times in one round.
A very common conversation on #1:
"Nice shot"
"Did it stay up?"
"Yep, I think you're OK"
....3 seconds later
"Nope, here it comes"
After recovery chip attempt:
"Get up...please.....stay...."
"Don't move -it's coming back to you"
.....roughly 4 hours later:
"Yep, got Ballyhacked on #1"
It's not over-the-top and completely fair, but exposes any timidity in approaches or recoveries.
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Looks great, I'd consider driving down, but my club championship finale is that weekend.
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Bumping this thread for this great event. I just realized that it will be the same weekend of the Mashie. I will have to resign my captaincy of the East squad for the Mashie as I am committed to the George Cup.
How lucky we are as GCAers to have these two opportunities this Fall.
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Gents:
Working on a few details for the George Cup and will be sending mail to the field in the next couple of weeks.
As you may have heard, the State Open of Virginia is coming to Ballyhack in July. That the event moved from Richmond was quite a coup and there's quite a buzz about what the winning 54-hole score might be. Lots going on to prepare, and there seem to be players visiting every couple of days for practice rounds. See http://vsga.org/state-open/ for more.
Of course, the State Open is the second biggest event being waged on the old Saul dairy property this year...
More soon.
WW
PS Keith, the first fairway, like many features at Ballyhack, lies on a diagonal. The carry to the right side is significantly easier than the left, especially from the angle presented by the back tee. From the second tee, the carry is less than 200 yards; from the middle tee, which lots of folks play, it's more like 160. We'll play from a variety of spots (including both of those) in the George Cup.
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I was at Ballyhack this past week. The course is just stunning and the conditions are excellent. The greens are as good as I've seem them. It will be interesting to see how the course is set up for the VA Open.
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Thanks for providing more color. The diagonal approach to the fairway was not evident from the picture offered on the website. Plenty of playing options offered, as well as interesting topography.
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Email sent to the field tonight. Please read and respond accordingly.
If you are interested in attending and did not receive tonight's email, please advise.
Thanks everyone, and I look forward to a great event.
WW
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Additional email sent to field tonight, including confirmation of arrival and departure days.
If you have contacted me with interest but do not receive the message, please advise.
On-site lodging is full but a convenient off-site option is available. Field is currently 21 players with an anticipated cap of 24. Interested parties, feel free to contact me.
Thanks very much.
WW
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*sigh*
:'(
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At some point my kids (well, kids come August), will be old enough for me to come back. Until then, at least I fixed my grip this summer.
Enjoy - it's a beauty.
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Gents:
Email (with pairings, format, details, directions, suggestions, etc). has been sent to the field.
Let me know if you have questions.
Looking forward to a great event.
WW
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Congratulations to Tommy Williamsen for winning the George Cup in this weekend's fourth annual Saul Shootout. Tommy blew away the field and gladly accepted the Cup, a Ballyhack pinflag, and a signed book from Lester George.
As many of you know, this year's winner also received a one-year membership to Ballyhack Golf Club, which Tommy graciously transferred to our second place finisher, Jim Sherma. As a current national member, Tommy wanted someone else to experience the pleasure of the club; his gesture will be remembered for quite some time (particularly, I know, by Jim!).
Weather was incredible and playing conditions were superb. Ballyhack presented a great test and it was a pleasure to host all twenty entrants.
Thanks to everyone who made the trip.
Wade
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Wade let be the first to thank you for a fine event. Ballyhack was exceptional, I'm sure all came away with a sense of gratitude for all your work in organizing the Saul Shootout. Thanks also to all my new golf friends for a fun weekend, I look forward to our next meeting. Sincerely Lyndell
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After three days of wonderful golf and the ride home yesterday I am still in shock. I thank Wade and Lester for putting it all together and of course Tommy for his kind gesture with the membership. The staff was wonderful towards all of us and it was a great weekend. it was also great meeting all of the GCA guys.
Ballyhack played really well and the architecture really shined. The gunch was more forgiving than my previous trip last year and while still challenging I think it allowed my focus to be more on what is between the gunch-lines instead of just trying to keep it in between the lines. I am looking forward to making it down as often as my schedule allows. I really want to introducing some guys to the course and club.
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I second the thoughts of Lyndell and Jim. The course was a blast to play, and conditions couldn't have been any better. Wade's organization and planning made the event really shine. I hope to return to Ballyhack and figure out how to play a few of those holes.
Lastly, the now former George Cup champion Kevin Lynch handing out the bro hugs nicely punctuated the weekend.
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Congratulations to Tommy. Other than last year's aberration ( ;D), he joins quite a select and talented club.
So how is my new best friend Jim Sherma? ;)
Details, details! Best shots, worst shots, photos?
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Playing two rounds with Kevin was the true "experience like no other". The Lynch-Mallard match on Sunday was one for the ages with the 13th through 15th something that you could only watch and shake your head in disbelief over.
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Congratulations to Tommy Williamsen for winning the George Cup in this weekend's fourth annual Saul Shootout. Tommy blew away the field and gladly accepted the Cup, a Ballyhack pinflag, and a signed book from Lester George.
As many of you know, this year's winner also received a one-year membership to Ballyhack Golf Club, which Tommy graciously transferred to our second place finisher, Jim Sherma. As a current national member, Tommy wanted someone else to experience the pleasure of the club; his gesture will be remembered for quite some time (particularly, I know, by Jim!).
This is so cool.
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Playing two rounds with Kevin was the true "experience like no other". The Lynch-Mallard match on Sunday was one for the ages with the 13th through 15th something that you could only watch and shake your head in disbelief over.
Before responding to the well earned comment about our singles match, I want to take this opportunity to publicly thank Wade Whitehead, Lester George, Jonathan Ireland, Aaron Dudley and the rest of the Ballyhack staff that to a person made us all feel most welcome at their club. This was my second George Cup, and I hope to be a participant in future events.
As for the 6 hole singles match with Kevin Lynch, it started out on the par 3 thirteenth hole with what could fairly described well earned three-putt from the right of the fifteenth pin defeating a regulation tee shot about 30 feet below the hole. It deteriorated quickly from there.
One of the things I enjoy most about these events is the renewal of old friendships, the telling of tales and (mis)adventures, the beginning of new friendships, and the creation of new stories to share and enjoy.
Thanks to everyone for a truly enjoyable weekend.
Jonathan
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Any mention of the Lynch photo album of the Tour de Cup?
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I'd like to echo the thoughts of everyone else who's already posted. My Dad and I had a great time getting to know you guys and experience Ballyhack. Congratulations to Tommy and Jim both!
Wade, thanks very much for all your hard work planning and for the creative and fun event format. I especially liked the format for the morning round, of course ;) but hope to get my driver going straight and my handicap down, and be less of a contender next year. Wish we had been able to make the Sunday match, too.
Aaron and the rest of the staff were very welcoming. Billy Bobbitt and the goats had the place in perfect condition: the greens were fast enough to keep us all on our toes, but just slow enough that nothing got silly, even on the most contoured greens like 3, 5, 9, 13, 14, and 15. And with regard to the goats and Jim Sherma's earlier comment: I hit plenty of balls into the thick stuff, but rarely lost one if I could get a line on it (and often found it, even if I couldn't see it down). Just nasty enough to penalize a poorly executed shot and make one try hard to avoid it, but not an automatic lost ball by any stretch.
Finally, I'd like to express my appreciation for Lester's work. I'm pretty familiar with the area around Roanoke, but I couldn't believe the severity of some of the property, particularly on the front nine, and came home so impressed with Lester's vision and his ability to pull it off. I've been thinking about what Carl said in the other thread (sorry, Carl, I think you were the only guy I failed to shake hands with) about Ballyhack being a difficult property. I think it would have been a difficult property on which to build an easy, or even a conventional, golf course. It demands something thrilling, whether it's the three clifftop par 5s or the drives over the ravines or the multiple-option holes or the "Cape", which looks like a straight hole until you see your ball bouncing down the fairway toward the creek... Look at the 11th, for another example of how Lester took advantage of the landscape presented rather than fighting it. To build a hole on such a severe slope takes courage, and by NOT leveling the playing ground he was able to create a memorable hole and also use less real estate/irrigation water than otherwise might be necessary to achieve a hole with similar scoring and strategy characteristics. Or the 13th, with its awesome green and setting that reminded me of a bigger version of the 18th at Pasatiempo. Instead of benching the green into the hillside, he let the green's contours approximate its surrounds. (I feel a bit like I did in college when writing a literary critique of an author I would later meet, so I hope Lester will correct me if I have any ideas wrong here.)
Thanks again, guys,
JB
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Any mention of the Lynch photo album of the Tour de Cup?
Kevin saved the best photo for last as he gave us a photo of Kevin, the George Cup, and GCA favorite.......
Tom Doak.
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Just like the Super Bowl and the Olympics, George Cup IV was more than worthy of its Roman numerals and has quickly become GCA's most fun (and zaniest) competition. What other event includes a (usually) decisive quiz with questions involving quotes from Sir Nick Faldo and the bassist of 80s rock band Styx (both Ballyhack members) as well as one about the number of golf balls lost during the 2013 event by its champion, Kevin Lynch (an incredible 27)?
A tip of the cap to Wade, Lester George, Jonathan Ireland and the rest of the Ballyhack team.
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Andy,
I believe it's the former bassist of REM who's a member of Ballyhack. That was one of the few Quiz questions I got right.
Thanks to those, especially Lester and Wade, who made the Shootout possible--what a terrific event.
Ballyhack is quite a course--dramatic, heroic, but strategic. One of the things that most impressed me is there are no weak holes. In different hands, I could imagine the land yielding some great holes but also some head scratchers--that's not the case at all. Every hole is at least good and several are world class.
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Congratulations to Tommy Williamsen for winning the George Cup in this weekend's fourth annual Saul Shootout. Tommy blew away the field and gladly accepted the Cup, a Ballyhack pinflag, and a signed book from Lester George.
As many of you know, this year's winner also received a one-year membership to Ballyhack Golf Club, which Tommy graciously transferred to our second place finisher, Jim Sherma. As a current national member, Tommy wanted someone else to experience the pleasure of the club; his gesture will be remembered for quite some time (particularly, I know, by Jim!).
This is so cool.
I would like to point out that second place at the Second Saul Shootout got bupkis.
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Any mention of the Lynch photo album of the Tour de Cup?
Kevin saved the best photo for last as he gave us a photo of Kevin, the George Cup, and GCA favorite.......
Tom Doak.
Ay, laddie. You might be wondering who took the photo...
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Yes, an amazing event and the course is nothing less than spectacular. Thank you Wade, Aaron & Jonathan for a great time.
We need a best of the quiz questions. The one about the number of balls found in re-worked bunker is a classic for the ages.
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Well, Tim, now you know why I flunked the quiz and finished as an also ran!
As for the course, it was in great condition and i agree with Tim's take that there's not a bad hole on the course. What makes Ballyhack so much fun is the many shots that are thrilling every time you face them - including right out of the gate with the tee shot over a chasm on #1 - yet more than achievable for the mid-handicapper from the proper set of tees. And, the wild contours in many of the greens make two-putts a challenge for any level of player. Raise your hand if you didn't three putt at least once from inside 15 feet.
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Any mention of the Lynch photo album of the Tour de Cup?
Kevin saved the best photo for last as he gave us a photo of Kevin, the George Cup, and GCA favorite.......
Tom Doak.
It took every ounce of restraint I had not to tip my hand that I had one more pretty decent photo opportunity with the Cup. Thanks to Ron Montesano for facilitating the meeting and to Tom for taking part. Maybe someday a Renaissance Cup Champ will have a Photo Opp with Lester:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/5klngx.jpg)
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Playing two rounds with Kevin was the true "experience like no other". The Lynch-Mallard match on Sunday was one for the ages with the 13th through 15th something that you could only watch and shake your head in disbelief over.
You had the full experience, Jim! All the way from believing my 9.1 Index was the biggest Sandbag Job in the GCA World on Friday to thinking 9.1 was a classic Vanity exercise by Sunday. :o Welcome to my high-beta brand of golf.
I will forever remember our classic duel, Jonathan. Not often can you bounce back from losing a hole you hit in regulation to winning one hitting five from the tee. But we did finish with pars on the last 3 holes, so I like our resilience.
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I bumped this thread because I am debating starting a thread about Ballyhack, the course, the experience of playing it, the visuals, etc. Wade & staff have been such gracious hosts I am wondering if it can be done.
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Kevin, playing with you is an experience. You can make two triples in a row, and follow it up with two birdies. It's exhausting to watch. Can't imagine what it's like inside your head.
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Kevin, playing with you is an experience. You can make two triples in a row, and follow it up with two birdies. It's exhausting to watch. Can't imagine what it's like inside your head.
Tommy, I thought that was just life as a mid-handicapper--I'm quite familar with it.
Carl, have at it.
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Kevin, playing with you is an experience. You can make two triples in a row, and follow it up with two birdies. It's exhausting to watch. Can't imagine what it's like inside your head.
Trust me - you don't want to experience it.
When you get to the top of your backswing and your swing thought is "will this be a cold top?" - it forever changes your approach to the game. When I can put those thoughts aside, it can be fun to ride along, but the potential downside is frightening. That's why you see me just enjoying everything for what it is, because it's all fleeting.
It takes a very special person to partner with me in alternate shot.
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I bumped this thread because I am debating starting a thread about Ballyhack, the course, the experience of playing it, the visuals, etc. Wade & staff have been such gracious hosts I am wondering if it can be done.
Carl -
I think it would be a great course to discuss and would gladly take part.
For me, the variety and memorability of the holes in on par with any course I have ever played. Usually when I play a course, there are one or two holes that it takes me some time to recall (even if its 5 or 10 seconds). In some cases, it's due to similarity to other holes on the course or that I've seen, and in other cases, it's because the siting or routing is non-descript. For Ballyhack, I had instant recall of every hole from the very first play. Each hole is so different that it's not possible for them to muddle together.
You have short holes, long holes, medium holes, dramatically uphill holes, dramatically downhill holes, straight holes, severe dogleg holes, ground game holes, aerial holes and none of them are even remotely similar, and most are unlike anything I've seen elsewhere. Every hole elicits an emotion, even if some are tinged with controversy.
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Finally, I'd like to express my appreciation for Lester's work. I'm pretty familiar with the area around Roanoke, but I couldn't believe the severity of some of the property, particularly on the front nine, and came home so impressed with Lester's vision and his ability to pull it off. I've been thinking about what Carl said in the other thread (sorry, Carl, I think you were the only guy I failed to shake hands with) about Ballyhack being a difficult property. I think it would have been a difficult property on which to build an easy, or even a conventional, golf course. It demands something thrilling, whether it's the three clifftop par 5s or the drives over the ravines or the multiple-option holes or the "Cape", which looks like a straight hole until you see your ball bouncing down the fairway toward the creek... Look at the 11th, for another example of how Lester took advantage of the landscape presented rather than fighting it. To build a hole on such a severe slope takes courage, and by NOT leveling the playing ground he was able to create a memorable hole and also use less real estate/irrigation water than otherwise might be necessary to achieve a hole with similar scoring and strategy characteristics. Or the 13th, with its awesome green and setting that reminded me of a bigger version of the 18th at Pasatiempo. Instead of benching the green into the hillside, he let the green's contours approximate its surrounds. (I feel a bit like I did in college when writing a literary critique of an author I would later meet, so I hope Lester will correct me if I have any ideas wrong here.)
Thanks again, guys,
JB
I think I used the word "challenging" to characterize the site.
I need to take some time to think about the Ballyhack evaluation thread.....
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Thanks to all who have chimed-in on the George Cup and the work done to create it. Although many of you credit Wade and me for the effort, the accolades belong strictly to Wade. This event was his creation and even though Jonathan, Aaron and I do everything we can to support it, Wade is the guy who makes it all happen.
I am flattered by the remarks and humbled by the gratitude. Thank you all for coming and especially thanks to Tommy for such a gracious gesture. I know Jim will use the membership and we will enjoy having him and his many guests.
We will continue to support and build this event. Now that Lynch has brought Tom Doak into the discussion, this would be a good time for me to ask Tom if the Renaissance Cup Champion will be receiving a membership from now on? Tom, consider it a challenge........
Lester
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We will continue to support and build this event. Now that Lynch has brought Tom Doak into the discussion, this would be a good time for me to ask Tom if the Renaissance Cup Champion will be receiving a membership from now on? Tom, consider it a challenge........
Lester
The first thing Tom asked was "shouldn't Lester have the George Cup?"
In my mind, Lord Stanley isn't carrying around Hockey's Holy Grail, and I did my part to give the George Cup an adventure in the last 12 months. When I saw Jared Stoll using the Stanley Cup as a ball marker, I knew he must have been taking his cues from us.
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Now that Lynch has brought Tom Doak into the discussion, this would be a good time for me to ask Tom if the Renaissance Cup Champion will be receiving a membership from now on? Tom, consider it a challenge........
Lester
I hope that Tom takes this not as a challenge (which would be improper) but a collegial salute, from one accomplished architect to another.
I don't know the parameters of the tournament, but if Lester donated the trophy and the annual membership, that's a wonderful pair of gestures.
Kevin Lynch was a remarkable ambassador for this event. We played a healthy amount of golf together over the past year and his efforts were focused not on his own achievement, but on the site and the tournament. He promoted Ballyhack and the band of brothers that participate in its annual event with proper enthusiasm.
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Kevin, playing with you is an experience. You can make two triples in a row, and follow it up with two birdies. It's exhausting to watch. Can't imagine what it's like inside your head.
Oh my God, I can't even begin to imagine.............
Playing with Kevin I had the good fortune to see parts of the course I had no idea even existed.
Carl, I would enjoy seeing your discussion thread--I suspect it will generate serious disagreement even among those of us who love the course and experience. A few head-scratching moments for me, but countless 'wow' moments. Lester certainly created something special and fun.
Now, can someone check the calendar for Yom Kippur, 2015? ;D
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Now, can someone check the calendar for Yom Kippur, 2015? ;D
23 September
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Kevin, playing with you is an experience. You can make two triples in a row, and follow it up with two birdies. It's exhausting to watch. Can't imagine what it's like inside your head.
Oh my God, I can't even begin to imagine.............
Playing with Kevin I had the good fortune to see parts of the course I had no idea even existed.
Carl, I would enjoy seeing your discussion thread--I suspect it will generate serious disagreement even among those of us who love the course and experience. A few head-scratching moments for me, but countless 'wow' moments. Lester certainly created something special and fun.
Now, can someone check the calendar for Yom Kippur, 2015? ;D
Unless the Saul Shootout is held on a Tuesday/Wednesday in 2015, you should be set.
I don't so much find new places as I find wildly alternate routes. For example, the 9th tee isn't a new place, but hitting your approach on #8 from there is unusual. However, not too unusual, as Chris DeNigris & I both found that route at the same time with equally wayward tee shots. I did find a new one this year. Did you know that if you hit a hard toe-slice from the Big Lick tees on #5, it will place you between the 2nd & 3rd centerline FW bunker on #2?
Carl did start his thread, so please add your thoughts.