Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Adrian_Stiff on January 04, 2014, 10:44:34 AM
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1 CARNOUSTIE 54 7361 72 1842 Alan Robertson re:Tom Morris re: James Braid re: James Wright
2 DOWNFIELD 18 6822 72 1932 James Braid ; re Jack Scrimgeour and Les Wright
3 MONTROSE MEDAL 36 6544 72 1562 Willie Park (1903)
4 PANMURE 18 6317 70 1845 Alan Robertson : re James Braid & Alexander Pirie
5 MONIFIETH MEDAL 36 6650 72 Alan Robertson & Alexander Pirie re: Tom Morris
6 CARNOUSTIE BURNSIDE 54 6020 69 1914 re: Robert Simpson sub-red J P Bruce & Willie Park jnr
7 LETHAM GRANGE OLD 36 6968 73 1987 Steel / Smith
8 EDZELL 27 6367 71 1895 Bob Simpson re: James Braid
9 FORFAR 18 6066 69 1871 Tom Morris / James Braid
10 CAIRD PARK 36 6303 70 1926 Harry Colt
11 BRECHIN 18 6200 70 1893 James Braid
12 CARNOUSTIE BUDDON 54 5420 66 1981 Peter Alliss
13 CAMPERDOWN 18 6561 72 1960 Eric Brown
14 ARBROATH ARTISAN 18 6185 70 1903 Tom Morris re: James Braid
15 KIRRIEMUIR 18 5510 67 1884 James Braid
15 LETHAM GRANGE GLENS 36 5528 68 Tom MacAuley
17 MONIFIETH ASHLUDIE 36 5123 66
18 MONTROSE BROOMFIELD 36 4830 63
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Arbroath - originally a Tom Morris lay out but I believe updated by James Braid later on (1920s?). Sometimes known as Arbroath-Elliot. I believe the links are owned by the local authority and played on by Arbroath Artisans. Confusing? Yip! Nice course to play though, worth stopping at on the way north from Carnoustie to Montrose/Aberdeen/Cruden Bay.
Edzell - the original course was renovated later on (1920's?) by James Braid. The 9-holer was added in the early 00's, not sure who by.
ATB
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Again referring to the Sunday Times GCG to B&I:
Edzell, Bob Simpson
Brechin, James Braid
Camperdown, Eric Brown
Arbroath, James Braid
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Whats left of the original Brechin course is Braid.
Edzell is Bob Simpson, with some re-design work by James Briad, which is now in the process of being destroyed by Mackenzie & Ebert.
We have proved Caird Park is a Colt, in the past ?
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Brian
Pretty sure we nailed Caird as a Colt. FBD is the man to confirm.
Adrian
Had a look last night at The Carnoustie Story by Donald Ford (ex-pro footballer with Hearts and now a photographer) who is a local boy.He's clearly done a fair bit of research and this is what he has to say about the various courses. (edit - the book is an excellent read if you can get ahold of it)
Championship Course
1840 - Allan Robertson lays out first formal course that comprises 10 holes using double greens in the St Andrews fashion.
1872 - Old Tom called in to consult and he substantially redesigns course to 18 holes (4,565 yds)
1884 - 1895 - Robert Simpson taken on as greenkeeper in 1884 and quits c.1895 (not sure about this date, this is from memory) and during his tenure he makes various modifications (not specified)
1894 - Old Tom brought back to "stiffen up" Championship Course. No detail as to what was done but in 1897 the course measured 6,082 yds)
1926 - James Braid brought in and he substantially redesigns the course taking in new ground (Stutt did the work)
1930 - following Scottish (?) Championship played over the course, James Wright, Captain of the Dalhousie Club that has stewardship of the course at that time, persuades his Committee that the finish is too soft and needs toughened up. Consequently the last 4 holes were totally redesigned. The suggestion is that Wright came up with the changes and that what we play now is what he designed.
1930-1936 - from my own research Wright writes to Aberdeen Journal in response to reported criticism from Tom Simpson on Carnoustie's suitability to stage the Open, and suggests that Simpson hasn't looked at Carnoustie recently so is in no position to judge and that c.60 bunkers have been closed up since 1930. This is possibly a reaction to Braids bunkering scheme and suggests he was a bit heavy handed in dishing out the sand (as he was at Troon when preparing it for the Open in 1923). Interestingly the website of the Tom Simpson Society has it that Simpson redesigned 6th and 13th at least and that Simpson mentioned this in correspondence to Captain of Liphook in 1959.
1985 - 200? - John Philp taken on as head greenkeeper with task of getting course back up to scratch with view to holding the Open. Following the 1999 Open myself and a group of fellow gca students were given a tour of the links by Philps and it was clear that quite a few changes had been made, some of them aesthetic but not always. Changes like mounding round the back of 1st and 3rd greens, raising approach to 15th and putting in mounding to surrounds to create almost a punchbowl type green. He also brought the burn up the right of the 6th into play more and put mounding on the far side of it to try and force players to go down Hogan's alley. Subsequent to that visit and prior to the next Open at Carnoustie that Harrington won, the 3rd fairway got the dunification treatment. There may have been other changes but I can't recall. It may well be that there was some committee/R&A sponsored architect behind some or all of these changes but I wouldn't bet on it. John Philps struck me as a man with strong views on what he wanted and he by several accounts he was given a fairly free hand to achieve it.
Comments on the Burnside and Buddon to follow.
Niall
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Cheers Everyone, we are making a lot of progress and filling the gaps. Melvyn is also helping a lot and following these threads and is helping filling the gaps, so big thanks to Mr MM.
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Burnside, Carnoustie
1892 - Robert Simpson lays out 9 hole course that was referred to then as Auxilliary course.
1894 - Old Tom makes some modifications such as moving first tee, presumably to accommodate his redesign of Championship course (that's my assumption).
1914 - course extended to 18 holes in accordance with plan by J.P. Bruce who was a member of Dalhousie (?) Club. The Ford book credits Willie Park Jnr as overseeing the construction of the bunkers which I presume means he basically designed and built green complexes and did other "featuring" of the course.
1934/35 - course substantially redesigned including 42 new tees, 14 new greens and 36 new bunkers, and lengthened to c.6,000 yards. Ford makes no mention of who designed the work but does suggest that what we play now is the basically the same course. At that time the course name was changed to The Burnside.
Buddon, Carnoustie
1974 - 1981 - Peter Allis/Dave Thomas called in to design 18 holes on practice ground where 6 practice holes already existed. For various reasons the course didn't open until 1981.
Ford credits Philp with making extensive alterations to course but doesn't detail what those changes were.
Niall
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Letham Grange : Are these NLE? I see to recall something.
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Burnside, Carnoustie
Just done a quick newspaper search and the 1934/35 changes to the Burnside were credited at the time to Mr James Wright and Mr R.R. Webster Baillie.
Niall
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Gents,
Caird defo a Colt.
Letham Grange still operating - just.
There's also 27 holes at Piperdam and 9 holes at Guthrie Castle for guests.
F.
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Burnside, Carnoustie
Just done a quick newspaper search and the 1934/35 changes to the Burnside were credited at the time to Mr James Wright and Mr R.R. Webster Baillie.
Niall
The same newspaper search also brought up that 50 holes closed on Championship (or Medal course as it was then referred to) in previous few years but that several were being made at around 280 yards mark on certain holes ahead of 1936 (?) Open. Another substantive change at that time was to scoop away some of the approach to the first green which prior to that was completely blind. The reason given that this would be a better hole for deciding any matches requiring to go up the 19th.
Niall
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Adrian
Panmure
The Panmure club started out playing on Monifieth links and in 1848 got Allan Robertson and Alexander Pirie (according to Monifieth strokesaver) to lay out 9 holes. The course was later modified and lengthened (1880 ?) which presumably was Old Tom (the strokesaver doesn't say) and when other clubs started using the links, the Panmure club negotiated their own exclusive use of nearby ground and in 1898 the Panmure course was laid out (no idea who the architect was but it clearly wasn't Allan Robertson). Therefore the Monifieth medal course should be the one credited to Robertson/Pirie. I also recall the Monifieth medal was substantially altered after WW1 and the Ashludie created. Don't have my notes to hand but have vague recollection it was Willie Park.
With regards the Panmure course, the clubs website credits Braid with making changes in the early 1920's.
Niall