Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: RJ_Daley on June 26, 2013, 10:58:42 PM
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After considering the ongoing nation-wide Brazilian protests, much of which seems centered around local resistence to the expenditures detracting from local civic and social needs, and work that is plowing through neighborhoods with Olympic constructions and infrastructure; is it looking like the Hanse golf course will go forward - and if so, will it be finished to the extent of holding an Olympic world championship?
While the linked story is prior to the ground breaking where it was reported much of the permitting and local go-aheads were secured; in the current atmosphere, might these concerns stated in the article get brought back to the fore, and delay what seems like a very narrow and closing window to ready a new course into the sort of shape a world tournament could be played?
http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-sports/2016olympics/2016-olympic-golf-course-controversy-in-rio/# (http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-sports/2016olympics/2016-olympic-golf-course-controversy-in-rio/#)
It might be a stroke of great luck that Gil has a new patron in Trump in other parts of the globe, if this doesn't pan out, at least there will be work for him elsewhere.
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Hey RJ, whats shakin and baking! I guess I can throw in my two cents. I think it will get done and this current events, we could call the second news worthy hurdle and I would imagine there are already much more hurdles that we don´t even hear about that Gill is having to over come and there will be lots more that will créate doubt even in his mind but I think it will work out eventually. This is really not unusal for South America, you learn to go with the flow and accept it and worry about the things you can control and the things you can´t, let them pass! If you don´t, you will go nuts or committ suicide, so I imagine he is transitioning or evolving! If he has moved himself and his family there, I would imagine there will be difficult times and times of regret but they will also pass, he will need to stay focused on the positives.
I just got out of there last Monday before they blocked the roads in protest to the airport and created all the Caos with the International flights coming out of Sao Paulo. I was there because there was a marketing event at one of my projects, an inaugeration of a lighted drivig range, in a nine hole golf course development that I started twelve years ago. The nine is not ready but it is planted, minus two greens and there is a good chance that they will be ready by December making it just under the wire for 13 years. This is my second nine hole course in Brazil and the first one also took twelve years. On the upside, I have done two eighteen hole courses there and were done closer to the norm of two years. Spoke with an Irrigation distributor from there and he said the Project was progressing pretty good and media people from the golf sector were also postive but these things can change day to day but all I heard was positive things but I was talking to Brazilians! Its just a different world! For example, there were over 300 people in attendance all from who is who in the golf world of Brazil and potential clients for lot sales. This was Saturday of the US Open and was quite pleased when I arrived to see a huge cinema screen set up, thought yeah buddy, gonna catch the Open after all, what a nice touch! Wrong...opening of the Federation Cup, Brazil vs Japan! Conclusions: 97.23% it will get done and be ready and be a hit! 50-50 it will get done on time to properly test!
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Randy, what I find interesting about the mood down there, if news reports here are accurate, is that the various groups protesting various issues seem to be a stew of discontent and not one specific thing. Then, with alleged offers by the government or powers that be to negotiate or work-out the problems reportedly have been met with no interest to actually sit down and work things out by disparate factions. If true, that doesn't sound too good for timely progress on all their construction plans surrounding the Oly's.
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All true but Sunday are the finals of the federation cup, Brazil vs Spain, the goverment will intervine to make sure Brazil wins or brazil will just win and things will go back to normal and everybodies mind will be occupied with the upcoming World cup less tan a year away!!
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Spoke this week to a senior Toro guy who said they don't yet have a paid for confirmed order yet so won't be shipping any irrigation product until they do. Interesting.
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Neal, you may want to ask your contact that same question again and let us know.
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Ian Andrew wrote a piece for Score Golf (canada) titled UnRiolistic, published in the June 2014 issue. I cannot find it online, but I'll keep trying. Pretty telling piece.
EDIT: Thanks, David, for the link below.
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http://scoregolf.uberflip.com/i/335135/5
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Ian Andrew wrote a piece for Score Golf (canada) titled UnRiolistic, published in the June 2014 issue.
Right after that piece was written they hired the Golf Contractor and the Irrigation crew picked up the pace with some changes.
I talked to Gil very recently.
Greens are done and seeded.
Golf course will be finished at the end of November.
Golf will be ready.
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Gil, Neil Cameron, Kyle Franz and Ben Hillard deserve a lot of credit for gutting through this one
4th green from back - courtesy Ben Hillard
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzwJ8PWIUAAU5oc.jpg:large)
9th green complex
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0tp9WMCIAEoSvS.jpg:large)
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Great article Ian, in ten days you got it pretty clear what it is like constructing in Brazil. Its going to be a great course but what should have been a fun Project I am sure turned into many sleepless nights for those involved who work with passion. They ended up getting a good finishing contractor..From what i saw of one of their other works were excellent. But they were left alone in the other works, so hopefully, the owners won´t interfere in that step to much. Anymore pictures would be great. Take care!
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Randy,
I heard a couple weeks ago that construction had been halted on at least part of the course by one of the environmental authorities. Something to do with a permit not being done right and further study was needed. Can paspalum be sprigged and grown-in in less than two years to provide putting surfaces for this level of play? Typically, new greens are very firm and often bumpy. What might the Olympians experience? I hope we pick for our team some aggressive putters.
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I hope we pick for our team some aggressive putters.
My understanding is that we don't pick our team. It's whoever are the top 4 U.S. players in the world rankings at the cutoff date.
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Randy,
I heard a couple weeks ago that construction had been halted on at least part of the course by one of the environmental authorities. Something to do with a permit not being done right and further study was needed. Can paspalum be sprigged and grown-in in less than two years to provide putting surfaces for this level of play? Typically, new greens are very firm and often bumpy. What might the Olympians experience? I hope we pick for our team some aggressive putters.
Shackelford makes a comment about the environmental angle in the latest state of the game and how absurd it was in his mind having been on site. Here is a link to an ESPN article.
http://m.espn.go.com/extra/olympics/story?storyId=11463567 (http://m.espn.go.com/extra/olympics/story?storyId=11463567)
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I hope we pick for our team some aggressive putters.
My understanding is that we don't pick our team. It's whoever are the top 4 U.S. players in the world rankings at the cutoff date.
Tom,
I think the process will be interesting. It could very well be that the top 4 have no interest in going. :)
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I hope we pick for our team some aggressive putters.
My understanding is that we don't pick our team. It's whoever are the top 4 U.S. players in the world rankings at the cutoff date.
Tom,
I think the process will be interesting. It could very well be that the top 4 have no interest in going. :)
Mike,
There might not be interest but at that level, like most things today the dollar rules. Remember when your one of the top four in the USA you earn more in endorsements then you do actually in prize money playing golf. So, most likely they will suck it up and play to protect their market perception!
Lou,
My paspalm experience is limited but you have almost ideal year round weather conditions that favor máximum growth, so producing thatch to take them from hard to firm should not be a problem. Aggressive light topdressing can smooth out any fast growing surface and there is always the old stand by of rolling in six directions and then triple cutting. Producing quality greens USE TO BE an ART where a select few stood out but not anymore.
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It might be less than 4 US players if there aren't 4 in the top 15 in the world.
It will be interesting seeing if the Olympic Games will factor in to the players scheduling as the games get closer. Right now Rickie Fowler is on the cusp being the 4th ranked US player. I have no doubt the pull of the Olympics will be on the minds of the lower ranked players.
http://www.igfgolf.org/olympic-games/ogr-men/
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We are close approaching where the Olympics will be like the Worlds Fair. No city is making money and the corruption is high.
There will be a player or two in the near future who chooses not to accept a Ryder Cup selection. The Ryder Cup is presented to us , the public, as if it were all about Country pride etc but in reality that is the sought after perception when in reality it is all about the PGA. It is true the endorsements will play roles in much of this but IMHO it will not necessarily be where they force them to play. You think Callaway was thrilled with Phil sitting on Saturday at the Ryder Cup? I'm fairly certain there is not a top American pro out there excited about playing Olympic golf.
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Weiskopf skipped the RC to go hunting in 1977. I don't necessarily look badly on players opting to allow others "the honor". Perhaps we would seat better teams if we selected only the best players who truly wanted to compete.
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I'm of the same mind, Lou. Was it counterproductive of Webb Simpson to lobby so vigorously, even when he was off form? Might he have taken the high road and not done so?
Also, how many of these guys receive sponsor cash bonuses for making the team? Changes everything.
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I'm of the same mind, Lou. Was it counterproductive of Webb Simpson to lobby so vigorously, even when he was off form? Might he have taken the high road and not done so?
Also, how many of these guys receive sponsor cash bonuses for making the team? Changes everything.
I doubt there will be sponsor bonuses for playing in the Olympics...
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Really Mike?
PS, what's the purse (if anything) for the Olympics?
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Mike,
why do you think golf will be any different to tennis? Just about all competitors at the Olympics are money driven.
Jon
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I know brazil well. Worked there for years. It will be allright on the night even if they ar still painting a few hours befor hand. It just sort of works
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Mike,
why do you think golf will be any different to tennis? Just about all competitors at the Olympics are money driven.
Jon
Jon,
IMHO golf should not be in the Olympics anyway but the guys will not be able to profit from it as their AGENTS would wish and with PGA Championship close by etc it will not be a big deal for the American pros....plus if it is country driven there will be some participants who could not win a club championship here in the States. Watch some of the world am events and who shows up....I have worked Latin America for a while and a long time ago worked some in Brazil and so far I haven't seen a country there that could put 4 world class players together....
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Mike,
I am sorry for being so dense but why will the players not be able to profit from being Olympic Champion? I would have thought that would be worth a hell of a lot in sponsorship deals.
I do not think the field will be any significantly weaker than the USPGA on the whole and though your point about certain countries not being able to field 4 decent players maybe correct it is not relevant as some will only field one and others none. Indeed I suspect apart from the US only Ireland, Australia, GB&I and possibly Germany will field 3+ players.
Jon
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Mike,
why do you think golf will be any different to tennis? Just about all competitors at the Olympics are money driven.
Jon
Jon,
IMHO golf should not be in the Olympics anyway but the guys will not be able to profit from it as their AGENTS would wish and with PGA Championship close by etc it will not be a big deal for the American pros....plus if it is country driven there will be some participants who could not win a club championship here in the States. Watch some of the world am events and who shows up....I have worked Latin America for a while and a long time ago worked some in Brazil and so far I haven't seen a country there that could put 4 world class players together....
What is your point with LatAm players? First, they just need 2 good players. Argentina has more than a handful of PGA and Europeantour players and have done well in team tournaments. Ask Tiger/Duval. If you were referring to amateurs, check out recent WATC scores in Japan, team and individual. Plus the rest of the world competes as well.
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To clarify my previous post, most countries get two players in each of the men's and women's competitions. There is a loophole that allows countries to field up to four players if they are also among the top 15 players in the world ... but if one country had 5 or 6 players in the top 15, the last ones would still not get in. [Fair or unfair, that's the way the Olympics works for other sports, too.]
I am glad to hear the course will be finished. There has been so much angst about it in the media, but delays are hardly unusual in this business [or in Latin America]. I've been working on four projects since we interviewed for the Rio job -- Dismal, China, Bordeaux and Tara Iti -- and three of them took almost as long as the Rio project to complete, due to permitting or money or "China". Slow is the new normal for golf course development.
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Mike,
I am sorry for being so dense but why will the players not be able to profit from being Olympic Champion? I would have thought that would be worth a hell of a lot in sponsorship deals.
I do not think the field will be any significantly weaker than the USPGA on the whole and though your point about certain countries not being able to field 4 decent players maybe correct it is not relevant as some will only field one and others none. Indeed I suspect apart from the US only Ireland, Australia, GB&I and possibly Germany will field 3+ players.
Jon
Jon,
It seems to me that most big time players have agents who receive 20% of a players endorsement deals or other appearance type deals. When a player is gone from home as much as the average tour player and something like the Olympics or Ryder Cup does not pay enough. I seriously doubt the American basketball team gained any notoriety from participating in the Olympics over their NBA teams. JMO
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Considering basketball is a team sport with an entirely different contract structure that isn't a great analogy.
NBA players do often have individual endorsement deals, but generally they are team employees... Tennis players, however, are a similar independent contractor type where weekly performance, travel and individual endorsements are all legit factors... I seem to remember most of the big tennis stars playing in the Olympics.
Golf at the Olympics also does offer its players significantly less impact on health/conditioning/risk to injury during competition than most sports. However the players take 100% risk if something goes wrong... Paul George will still getting paid by the NBA's Pacers this year.
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Mike,
I am sorry for being so dense but why will the players not be able to profit from being Olympic Champion? I would have thought that would be worth a hell of a lot in sponsorship deals.
I do not think the field will be any significantly weaker than the USPGA on the whole and though your point about certain countries not being able to field 4 decent players maybe correct it is not relevant as some will only field one and others none. Indeed I suspect apart from the US only Ireland, Australia, GB&I and possibly Germany will field 3+ players.
Jon
Jon,
It seems to me that most big time players have agents who receive 20% of a players endorsement deals or other appearance type deals. When a player is gone from home as much as the average tour player and something like the Olympics or Ryder Cup does not pay enough. I seriously doubt the American basketball team gained any notoriety from participating in the Olympics over their NBA teams. JMO
There should be ample opportunity to market players at the Olympics. Even for the best players it sets them in a different context and playing for a gold medal. I doubt any agent would go against participation in the Olympics. And I am sure a lot of players will actually enjoy doing something different and hanging out with other athletes.
Unfortunately the golf format is not the best.
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Mike,
I am sorry for being so dense but why will the players not be able to profit from being Olympic Champion? I would have thought that would be worth a hell of a lot in sponsorship deals.
I do not think the field will be any significantly weaker than the USPGA on the whole and though your point about certain countries not being able to field 4 decent players maybe correct it is not relevant as some will only field one and others none. Indeed I suspect apart from the US only Ireland, Australia, GB&I and possibly Germany will field 3+ players.
Jon
Jon,
It seems to me that most big time players have agents who receive 20% of a players endorsement deals or other appearance type deals. When a player is gone from home as much as the average tour player and something like the Olympics or Ryder Cup does not pay enough. I seriously doubt the American basketball team gained any notoriety from participating in the Olympics over their NBA teams. JMO
Mike,
I can understand your point now. As others have said basketball is firstly a tem sport and secondly except in the US it is really a fringe sport in the national awareness of most countries. I could not tell you the name of a single British player or European come to think of it though I know there is at least one German who has done okay but hardly a sport you can market outside the US.
I would say golf is similar to tennis which has done okay since it became an Olympic event.
Jon
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Not sure if anyone saw this from Geoff Shackelford, went up late last night:
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2014/10/27/rio-judge-5-days-to-decide-to-move-3-olympic-course-holes.html
JB
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What an embarrassment for Rio and the country in general. All the advanced negative information of how it is virtually impossible to get anything done without pay-offs and extortion, etc. It is like the old squeeze play, 'I can sell you this car at this price but only for the next couple of hours'.
Gil ought to take his loss now, and get as far away from these goofs as he can. He has done many a excellent project already, and his reputation will not suffer one bit. In fact, he might be thought of as a stronger man in that he would not take this crap from these two bit corrupt judges and bureaucrats. If they kill this project now and for the olympic games, then miraculously re commence the project by some corrupt and influential resort owner in Brazil, no one should patronize the obvious corrupt practices project, no matter how good Gil's work may turn out to be in some successor version after these rotten procedings.
As many on the commentary following the article say, the hell with the idea of golf in the Olympics.
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What an embarrassment for Rio and the country in general. All the advanced negative information of how it is virtually impossible to get anything done without pay-offs and extortion, etc. It is like the old squeeze play, 'I can sell you this car at this price but only for the next couple of hours'.
Gil ought to take his loss now, and get as far away from these goofs as he can. He has done many a excellent project already, and his reputation will not suffer one bit. In fact, he might be thought of as a stronger man in that he would not take this crap from these two bit corrupt judges and bureaucrats. If they kill this project now and for the olympic games, then miraculously re commence the project by some corrupt and influential resort owner in Brazil, no one should patronize the obvious corrupt practices project, no matter how good Gil's work may turn out to be in some successor version after these rotten procedings.
As many on the commentary following the article say, the hell with the idea of golf in the Olympics.
While corruption is rampant in Brazil and other Latin countries, environmental lawsuits are common in Brazil and do not necessarily signal corrpution. It is as likely to be a pseudo environmental/left wing group just being stupid, but judges do hear them out. I have not clue what is realy behind this single case, but I would not assume corruption would be involved in any solution.
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Well, if that order gets suddenly reversed, let's just say I wouldn't be surprised to see the Judge and all his posse sitting in the choice event box seats at the major venues of the games. What next? Maybe replace wrestling as one of the original events with high hurdle shakedowns? ::)
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I do not think the field will be any significantly weaker than the USPGA on the whole and though your point about certain countries not being able to field 4 decent players maybe correct it is not relevant as some will only field one and others none. Indeed I suspect apart from the US only Ireland, Australia, GB&I and possibly Germany will field 3+ players.
The weay I read it - given the current rankings only the US would have more than two pleayers in the field as the US is the only country with more than two players in the top 15. And given the current rankings neither Phil nor Tiger would qualify - the US players would be Furyk, Bubba, Fowler and Kuchar.
Other than the US the highest OWGR ranking of a third ranked golfer in his own country is Luke Donald at #34 (assuming Rory and GMac are Irish rather than UK). The third ranked Aussie is Leishman at 44.
Phil would be the highest ranking player not to qualify.
Its kind of like curling in the winter Olympcs. About 18 of the top 20 teams globally would be from Canada but we are only allowed to send one team.
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Wayne,
as I understand it any player inside the top 15 qualify unless there are 4 fellow country men a head of them. That would mean if it were to be decided today that the US would have 4 players though 4 others inside the top 15 would miss out. On top of that Australia would have 2, Ireland, Spain, Sweden and GBI would each have 1.
Including these top 15 players the field will be made up of 60 players chosen through the rankings where no country may have more than 2 players above the rank of 15 and no more than 4 players in total. Therefore the US will have 4 as could Australia with Ireland, Spain, Sweden and GBI having a possible maximum of 3.
Countries such as India and Austria could possibly also have a player involved.
Jon
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I interpret it differently. I don't think it is the top 15, subject to a max of 4, plus two from each country. I read it as two from each country except you can have up to four if they are in the top 15. But the description is confusing. Aus already has two from the top 15 s that's all they get.
Here is what I found:
The IOC has restricted the IGF to an Olympic field of 60 players for each of the men’s and women’s competition. The IGF will utilise the official world golf rankings to create the Olympic golf rankings as a method of determining eligibility. The top-15 world-ranked players will be eligible for the Olympics, with a limit of four players from a given country. Beyond the top-15, players will be eligible based on the world rankings, with a maximum of two eligible players from each country that does not already have two or more players among the top-15
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Could be Wayne, depends how its read. Guess we'll find out at some point.
Jon
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Weiskopf skipped the RC to go hunting in 1977. I don't necessarily look badly on players opting to allow others "the honor". Perhaps we would seat better teams if we selected only the best players who truly wanted to compete.
That is half the story, the other haolf is that he did tell the PGA BEFORE the season started that we would not be avaialble for selection.
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For some countries the golf event in the Olympics will be a big deal. Ireland has won a total of 9 Gold medals in its history and only one in the last four games (2000-2012). I have to think that Rory winning a gold for Ireland would be a big deal.
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Well, if that order gets suddenly reversed, let's just say I wouldn't be surprised to see the Judge and all his posse sitting in the choice event box seats at the major venues of the games. What next? Maybe replace wrestling as one of the original events with high hurdle shakedowns? ::)
Exactly. If Chicago had won, this would not be a problem at all. Well, not until the indictments. But the golf course (Medinah and Olympia Fields were very interested) would be ready!
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What an embarrassment for Rio and the country in general. All the advanced negative information of how it is virtually impossible to get anything done without pay-offs and extortion, etc. It is like the old squeeze play, 'I can sell you this car at this price but only for the next couple of hours'.
Gil ought to take his loss now, and get as far away from these goofs as he can. He has done many a excellent project already, and his reputation will not suffer one bit. In fact, he might be thought of as a stronger man in that he would not take this crap from these two bit corrupt judges and bureaucrats. If they kill this project now and for the olympic games, then miraculously re commence the project by some corrupt and influential resort owner in Brazil, no one should patronize the obvious corrupt practices project, no matter how good Gil's work may turn out to be in some successor version after these rotten procedings.
As many on the commentary following the article say, the hell with the idea of golf in the Olympics.
While corruption is rampant in Brazil and other Latin countries, environmental lawsuits are common in Brazil and do not necessarily signal corrpution. It is as likely to be a pseudo environmental/left wing group just being stupid, but judges do hear them out. I have not clue what is realy behind this single case, but I would not assume corruption would be involved in any solution.
I agree. I have worked in Brazil for some years, and yes there is corruption, but this smacks more of red tape. There is a very solid and very active legal system in Brazil . - they are almost as litigious as Americans, it is something of a national sport. The judiciary is actually pretty cleanish and fiercely independent. I would not be surprised if there was actually a real issue here. The government no doubt waved its arms and said its all approved but more than likely blatantly ignored some environmental regulations that were in place. Someone who hates gold has picked up on that and the courts are upholding it as they would be required to do in the US. Law is the law. So I wouldn't be too fast to blame the courts, blame the bureaucrats.
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I'm not really interested in Olympic golf and this course debacle only reaffirms my lack of interest. Generally speaking I don't get too excited about any Summer Olympic events; I do enjoy some of the Winter Olympics, specifically the hockey tournament.
But what I don't and cannot understand is why golf made its return in Brazil. Why not the London games? The courses were already there and it seemed to make too much sense not to have golf there. But common sense and the Olympics does not seem to go hand in hand (same with FIFA and the European Ryder Cup venue selections).
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The games have just gotten worse every cycle with commercialism, professionals participating in what should be amatuer sport and freaky corrupt governance. In terms of a top world ranked pro golfer, I can't really see an upside of wasting two weeks in a tour season to bother with the hype and imbalanced method of selecting a top competitive field while missing out on whichever actual paying tour stops may be oposite the olys those weeks, if you want a chance at a payday.
Why a person would want to risk the downside of having your creative work quality and name associated with what convoluted outcomes seemed quite probable to ensue when mixing the IOC with a notoriously fouled up civil governance where you have to rely on an efficient local process to have any chance to have your work succeed seems like more risk than a architect with the up and coming and already good reputation Gil has earned to have been worth it, IMO.
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Sunny days ahead?
http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/rio-wins-legal-battle-over-olympic-golf-course?sct=hp2
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http://sports.yahoo.com/…/brazil-judge-rejects-request-to-h…
Very sensible. Hopefully this is the end of these questions surrounding the project.
I have a great piece of advice for anyone from the environmental side of this discussion who might come across this post. Take it from a person heavily involved as a member of the design/construction team for the course... I would encourage you to shift focus away preventing course completion and focus on the REAL BEST POSSIBLE GOAL for the property -- making sure it stays a golf course!
As long as it does not succumb to another development after the Olympics -- real estate or otherwise -- it will remain a great urban environmental reserve.
Gil's design and the projects maintenance regimen is as innovative towards the environment as any project in recent years.
1. We restored the native dune lands habitat that had been previously destroyed in the last decades.
2. We dealt with invasive vegetation that had overtaken the property and degraded habitat further.
3. And reversed many other negative human impacts to the property.
Great pains were made to minimize impacts in the design and recreate as many acres of native habitat as possible. You will see this come to fruition as this project is completed. In many ways our course design is equally tied to environmental success as your goals.
As long as it remains a course, and does not succumb to further development, that won't change. I think we can all agree the course is a better solution than another real estate development encroaching on the Maripendi.
Given the immense value of this property, in the heart Rio's booming district, this threat can't be ignored -- no matter what the agreements are now.
Everyone involved with this project should focus on working together to make sure that doesn't happen in the long run!
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Kyle,
Nice of you to check in. I'm a fan of your team's work at MidPines.
That said, what can folks in North America do to ensure that Rio Golf stays Rio Golf (does it have a name yet?)
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Golf Channel reported Hanse stated the Rio golf course is "finished" and only needing to mature. I only saw a Spanish article but apparently Hanse discussed this on TV? Anyone has a link?
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Here is the link to the story.
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/hanse-says-olympic-golf-course-complete/
The Latina American Amateur Championship starts Thursday in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Winner gets a spot at the Masters. There is speculation that it will be played at the Rio Olympic Course in January of 2016, and it would serve as a test event for the Olympics. The other rumor is that Teeth of the Dog is the 2016 venue. Anyway, the announcement comes tomorrow.
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Hanse joined others for press conference at the PGA Show to discuss the latest on the Rio course:
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/1/21/rio-olympic-course-has-no-name-but-grass-is-growing.html (http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/1/21/rio-olympic-course-has-no-name-but-grass-is-growing.html)
http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2015/01/olympic-golf-officials-feeling.html (http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2015/01/olympic-golf-officials-feeling.html)
http://golfweek.com/news/2015/jan/21/olympics-golf-rio-de-janeiro-gil-hanse-2016/ (http://golfweek.com/news/2015/jan/21/olympics-golf-rio-de-janeiro-gil-hanse-2016/)
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Has anyone seen the video of the press conference? It was interesting, with multiple pics of the course. I have been looking for it and can't find it online.
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Geoff Shackelford posted links to great photos of the Rio course. Link below.
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/1/26/blame-it-on-the-olympics-rio-mayor-laments-golf-course.html
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While the quality of the course is yet to be seen, I can't help but feel that this course could one day be spoken in the same light as Lido. With the mayor and the city's seeming indifference to the future of the course, this place could be completely grown over by 2018. If the course plays as good as it looks it would be a shame for the city to abandon the property post Olympics.
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Brazil lacks good golf courses. In fact, it might have less than a handful of better than mediocre public or even private club courses (I know there are some single owner courses that might or might not be any good). It has little history of golf and until recently no good players to look up to. This is changing. A huge part of the population is better off these days and disposable income increasing. Within the 2 largest cities with tens of millions in population, there is virtually zero chance of another golf course being built. The mayor is speaking to his socialist leaning electorate but will soon realize there is a huge revenue opportunity from Brazilians and tourists alike. I believe there is a good chance that the course survives well into the future if management is privatized and is properly run with a buisness model similar to top tier courses in the rest of South America. Both the LAAC and PGA Tour Latinoamerica should quickly schedule 2017-18 events on this course.
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The test event for the Olympic golf course in Rio will take place in the first quarter of 2016, says IGF:
http://golfweek.com/news/2015/jul/13/olympic-golf-course-2016-rio-brazil-test-event-igf/ (http://golfweek.com/news/2015/jul/13/olympic-golf-course-2016-rio-brazil-test-event-igf/)
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Brazil lacks good golf courses. In fact, it might have less than a handful of better than mediocre public or even private club courses (I know there are some single owner courses that might or might not be any good). It has little history of golf and until recently no good players to look up to. This is changing. A huge part of the population is better off these days and disposable income increasing. Within the 2 largest cities with tens of millions in population, there is virtually zero chance of another golf course being built. The mayor is speaking to his socialist leaning electorate but will soon realize there is a huge revenue opportunity from Brazilians and tourists alike. I believe there is a good chance that the course survives well into the future if management is privatized and is properly run with a buisness model similar to top tier courses in the rest of South America. Both the LAAC and PGA Tour Latinoamerica should quickly schedule 2017-18 events on this course.
I believe the 2017 LAAC will be held in Los Cabos, Mexico. Not 100% but seems likely.
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The test event for the Olympic golf course in Rio will take place in the first quarter of 2016, says IGF:
I wonder what they're "testing" ? It would be too late to make any substantial change to the course even if they found they wanted to.
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The test event for the Olympic golf course in Rio will take place in the first quarter of 2016, says IGF:
I wonder what they're "testing" ? It would be too late to make any substantial change to the course even if they found they wanted to.
Is it not just all part of the 'process' ? Keeping the bureaucrats happy/paid!? Testing logistics, support infrastructure etc.
When I was with the Project Management team for London 2012, if I remember correctly, there was a big emphasis on the testing period. That was more about getting building/safety 'regs' signed off, mind you.
I'm really not sure what red tape would need crossing for a golf course, a good one anyway. No doubt the Olympic Organisation/politicians could find a way...!
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Can Hanse survive being in bed with both the IOC and Trump? What possibly could be next?
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They pretty much always run events at Olympic venues beforehand as a dry run for logistics, infrastructure, etc. like Clyde said. It allows them to make adjustments for things like crowd flows, getting people to events, whether there are enough washrooms and food outlets, athletes facilities, warm-up capabilities, etc.
But I really wonder if there will be enough people out at this event to be able to tell enough of that. Maybe there won't be anyone attending the golf at the games either.
We are having the PanAm games in Toronto right now and golf is included - they are playing at Angus Glen. The tickets cost $50 and the players are all no-names since Brooke Henderson pulled out.
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New course photos...
http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/22/olympic-golf-course-photos-rio-2016/ (http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/22/olympic-golf-course-photos-rio-2016/)
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The photos aren't great so it is hard to tell but it looks like the course is very flat.
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This is perhaps not a good sign.
Not one single player would go...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2016/03/02/column-players-avoiding-rio-as-if-olympic-golf-is-bad-idea/81236018/
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I don't blame players for not taking time out of their established schedule to play a test event.
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What a horrible article.
The Olympics are in August.
Players will prepare then.
If there was a plane heading to Pebble in a US Open year, with the Tour in Massachussets, would players go?
Doral's a pretty big week, and that kind've travel takes something out of player.
Lots of conclusions jumped to from a pooly conceived idea.
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Jeff,
Fair enough....my only counter to that is.
Everyone on tour has already played Pebble from dozens of times to over 100+ rounds and there are no surprises/suspense. As opposed to the new course in RIo which I suspect is unknown to everyone on tour!!
I didn't think it was that unreasonable, but it seems to be these guys aren't too interested.
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Zika is a now a STD. Why would anyone go?
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Fantastic logic John,
I'm guessing you won't be going to Texas then either...
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/02/health/zika-virus-sexual-contact-texas/
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If I go to Texas it will be to see Mahaffey. If I get him pregnant we will deal with it appropriately.
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If I go to Texas it will be to see Mahaffey. If I get him pregnant we will deal with it appropriately.
Not in rural Texas you won't.
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Jeff,
Fair enough....my only counter to that is.
Everyone on tour has already played Pebble from dozens of times to over 100+ rounds and there are no surprises/suspense. As opposed to the new course in RIo which I suspect is unknown to everyone on tour!!
I didn't think it was that unreasonable, but it seems to be these guys aren't too interested.
While I believe players (and their sponsors) will eventually be very interested in the Olympics, spending 2 short nights on a plane from MIA to Rio is dumb for these guys at this stage. They need to save energies for the rest of the year. They will have plenty of time to practice the course.
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Jeff,
Fair enough....my only counter to that is.
Everyone on tour has already played Pebble from dozens of times to over 100+ rounds and there are no surprises/suspense. As opposed to the new course in RIo which I suspect is unknown to everyone on tour!!
I didn't think it was that unreasonable, but it seems to be these guys aren't too interested.
While I believe players (and their sponsors) will eventually be very interested in the Olympics, spending 2 short nights on a plane from MIA to Rio is dumb for these guys at this stage. They need to save energies for the rest of the year. They will have plenty of time to practice the course.
I get the 2-3 week long trips overseas is pretty grueling for these guys as it would be for anyone...
But we're talking about a one off all expenses paid chartered flight, with 1st class seating and the fully monty on everything else... boo hoo for them, spoiled babies. ;)
Besides they already take 2-4 combined months off during the year, so they get plenty of rest...
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Jeff,
Fair enough....my only counter to that is.
Everyone on tour has already played Pebble from dozens of times to over 100+ rounds and there are no surprises/suspense. As opposed to the new course in RIo which I suspect is unknown to everyone on tour!!
I didn't think it was that unreasonable, but it seems to be these guys aren't too interested.
While I believe players (and their sponsors) will eventually be very interested in the Olympics, spending 2 short nights on a plane from MIA to Rio is dumb for these guys at this stage. They need to save energies for the rest of the year. They will have plenty of time to practice the course.
I get the 2-3 week long trips overseas is pretty grueling for these guys as it would be for anyone...
But we're talking about a one off all expenses paid chartered flight, with 1st class seating and the fully monty on everything else... boo hoo for them, spoiled babies. ;)
Besides they already take 2-4 combined months off during the year, so they get plenty of rest...
Even in first class seats you do not get more than 5 hours sleep. Traffic to and from GIG to the course is a mess. I made those roundtrip no hotel night flights a lot when i was 28-32. Not good for your body.
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Henrik Stenson mentioned today he would rather win a bronze medal at the Olympics than place third at The Masters. Golfers will embrace the experience, and sponsors will make sure they do.
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If I go to Texas it will be to see Mahaffey. If I get him pregnant we will deal with it appropriately.
Not in rural Texas you won't.
I know what the rest of the country thinks of Texas, but believe it or not people in TX do have cars and trucks, and freedom to cross state lines. But we always do appreciate the rest of the country telling us how to live.
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I love Texas. Not crazy about the politicians but everything else is fine, from migas for breakfast in Austin to a cold beer in Luckenbach, to golf at Wolf Point. Don, are there bluebonnets in the rough this time of year?
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From the Golf Channel, this morning: http://www.golfchannel.com/media/alexandre-rocha-playing-rio-olympic-course/
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Well the Olympics open this Friday...
I'm quite surprised how many leading players are skipping the Olympics.
It's understandable how a non US player Olympic eligible player who is struggling to keep his status on Tour might elect to skip, especially if he was having a good enough year to qualify for The fed EX Cup or was borderline on the PGA, Euro or Web.com Tour, and needed the events and or rest to continue with their career.
The Olympics ARE a big deal for anyone with a soul or a sense of history.
Whether golf should be in the Olympics or not is a moot point.(as well as one's opinion about the corrupt IOC)
Golf is in for the next 2 Olympiads, and a unique incredible history making opportunity has been dropped in the laps of many leading players.
The women (the one's who potentially have a bigger risk) have embraced it.
The men-not so much-because they need it less.
a shame, and I would hope they at least feel a tinge of regret while watching the Opening ceremonies.
They risk the event being pulled for good, and I would hope that next go round countries would have the right to skip over players who elected to skip this year's Olympics.
A romantic notion?
Probably, but I think participating in the Olympic experience(warts and all) would be a memorable, once in a lifetime experience.
Kudos to Bubba-even if I have to watch him cry again....
Bogie for Spieth etc.
Seems like Day ought to go-he's got some phantom ailment every week anyway ::) ::)
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+1 Jeff.
Meanwhile, as predicted, there is Zika in Florida. Will be interesting to see Rory move back to Northern Ireland and be consistent with his explanation to skip the Games.
Too many players are missing a potentially historic event and missing a chance to connect with other athletes and fans, as well as help their sponsors.
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Women don't have a higher risk