Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: John Chilver-Stainer on December 03, 2012, 09:27:20 AM

Title: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
Post by: John Chilver-Stainer on December 03, 2012, 09:27:20 AM: Mark Bourgeois has done excellent work digging up the scores on the 11th at the Old Course of the 2010 Open.

Field, 2010: 24 birdies, 327 pars, 102 bogeys, 13 doubles

This reveals by my maths an average score of 3.22

Do you think the new 11th, will be “strengthened for the elite players” at the 2015 Open.
If so the scoring average should go up.

Will the new benign area to the left of the green instigate higher or lower averages?
Title: Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
Post by: Rich Goodale on December 03, 2012, 09:51:19 AM: It will give a needed increase in the variety of pin positions available on that hole. Who cares about the scoring average?
Title: Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
Post by: Ulrich Mayring on December 03, 2012, 10:09:08 AM: If the hole plays the same as it played before, then you'd need a pretty good argument to justify architectural changes.

Ulrich
Title: Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
Post by: John Chilver-Stainer on December 03, 2012, 11:33:52 AM: " Who cares about the scoring average?"

Rich,
haven't you been listening?

Peter Dawson said he wants to strengthen the course against Elite Pros.
That implies the changes being made to the course, are to RESIST low scoring.
Title: Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
Post by: Paul_Turner on December 03, 2012, 11:34:08 AM: When was the now "prohibited" pin position last used for an Open or Dunhill?
Title: Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
Post by: Bill_McBride on December 04, 2012, 09:00:36 AM: It would have been a lot less expensive to cut and roll the greens at 9-10 instead of 12!
Title: Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
Post by: Jeb Bearer on December 04, 2012, 08:52:00 PM: Quote from: Bill_McBride on December 04, 2012, 09:00:36 AM
It would have been a lot less expensive to cut and roll the greens at 9-10 instead of 12!

Not to mention it would have saved the integrity and uniqueness of the hole for the other 99.9% of golfers who play the course.
Title: Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
Post by: Jud_T on December 05, 2012, 07:55:35 AM: If the argument was that more pin positions were needed for everyday play due to excessive wear on the green, that would be one thing. But that is not the case, it's that more pin positions are desired for the Open at higher green speeds to make it "fair" for the pros. Essentially the Championship Committee just bitch-slapped the town with their elitist ideals about tournament golf.
Title: Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
Post by: Mark Chaplin on December 05, 2012, 08:08:40 AM: Bill - they aim for 10.5 for the Open greens, speeds over 11 do not work on links courses when the breeze gets up. This is about making more pin positions not faster green speeds.
Title: Re: Will the 11th at the Old Course be strengthened against low scoring?
Post by: jeffwarne on December 05, 2012, 08:15:39 AM: Quote from: Mark Chaplin on December 05, 2012, 08:08:40 AM
Bill - they aim for 10.5 for the Open greens, speeds over 11 do not work on links courses when the breeze gets up. This is about making more pin positions not faster green speeds.

That's correct, but it's also about reclaiming pin positions LOST due to higher greens speeds.
It would be great if the governing bodies in the US adopted/went back to the speeds used in Opens so they could stop butchering their own greens