Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Joe Bausch on October 06, 2012, 02:42:46 PM
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Recently I played the CC of Scranton with McKeever and Cirba. This was my first Travis course (at least that I can recall!) and it was memorable.
Much work has been done at Scranton over the past 8 years or so, with still more work planned. Ian Andrew was involved from about 2003 to 2008 and (this from the supe Greg Boring) "he oversaw the expansion of the greens and helped with the tree management program."
Greg summarized in another e-mail to me more of what has and could happen at Scranton:
Approximately 8 years ago the club started a tree management program to begin opening up sight lines and restoring views on the golf course as well as opening up golf holes and allowing the course to be played the way Travis intended it. At this time the club began expanding the greens back to their original shape and size. In 2010 the club hired Tom Marzolf of Fazio Design to complete a Master Plan. Phase one of that Master Plan included a bunker renovation, adding low mow chipping area around the greens that Travis had on his original drawing and recountouring fairway lines. Where we added the chipping areas around the greens we wrapped the greenside bunkers in bentgrass which is a look that is common in Australia. (Travis's Birthplace. Even though he didn't take up the game until he came to the States.) The bunker style is not the origninal style put on the ground in 1926. The club officials felt the original bunkers were entirely too penal for our membership and there was major concern with maintaining them. The project started in July of 2011 and was completed in July of 2012. We started the contruction of a new Driving Range tee this week which should be completed in two weeks. We hope to add a short game center in the next few years. The Master Plan has the addition of some forward and new back tees as well as trying to recapture the original contours on the 4th, 5th, and 11th greens. Those are the only greens that aren't original. That will be several years down the road though. The Tree Management Program continues every year. The Evergreen trees are slowly being removed from the property and Deciduous trees are being evaluated yearly. The club will host the PA Senior Am in 2013 and the PA State Am in 2015.
Here is the hole sequencing at Scranton from an October, 2011 Google Earth aerial. In it you can see where some recent tree removal has occurred.
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/Scranton_routing.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/scranton/Scranton_routing.jpg)
Here is a camera phone picture of the original plans by Travis:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/Travis_plans.jpg)
Greg points out that it is not known how much of those original plans ended up on the ground.
And here is an early oblique aerial of the course from the 30's I believe:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/early_aerial.jpg)
Those are some unusual fairway bunkers!
Enough of the intro, let's see the greens. ;D
Edit: all photos are now 'clickable' leading to a much larger size.
#1. Slightly downhill par 4 (412 yards).
Tee view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/1a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/1a.jpg)
Approach view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/1b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/1b.jpg)
I believe a creek used to run in front of the green but that has been mostly piped under:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/1c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/1c.jpg)
You get the feeling this will be an interesting day after this first green with lots of internal contours and running faster than anyplace I played all season (probably around a 12):
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/1d.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/1d.jpg)
#2. Par 4 (432 yards).
Tee view where you can detect some different looking bunker left:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/2a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/2a.jpg)
Some church pew inspired bunker it is!
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/2b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/2b.jpg)
Approach shot where that bunker left is well short of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/2c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/2c.jpg)
From short of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/2d.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/2d.jpg)
From over the green, where I've now taken 6 putts for the day!:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/2e.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/2e.jpg)
#3. Par 3 (182 yards).
Unfortunately lighting was not so great here on this one-shotter with a devilish green. This front pin was challenging, but there is a "Sunday pin" back right that I could not quite capture with the cam.
Tee view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/3a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/3a.jpg)
From the back of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/3b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/3b.jpg)
From long and left of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/3c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/3c.jpg)
That's it for today. Grading of papers calls my name!
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i think Fazio and co. are currently doing the work at CC of Scranton. Looks like a nice track
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Joe -
Thanks for this tour, for which I have been waiting a very long time.
I don't know if Travis was the best or most artistic green builder, but I do think he was the most clever.
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Joe
I can already see the course looks interesting, but if I see another blasted fairway narrow down to the green (making the green wider than the fairway) I will go spare. I am so fed up with this sort of presentation.
On the other hand, except for the weird rough, this is quite interesting - its more than halfway to getting a good presentation.
(http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/scranton/2c.jpg)
I look forward to more pix.
Ciao
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Sean Arble,
I think I know about what you speak, but I don't see an example of that in any of Joe's photos so far.
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A lot of the bunkers are deceptive, in that there is space between them and the green front. This gives a pinched appearance, but not the reality.
The fellow that helped in the restoration was an interesting choice (not a Golden Age or Travis expert at first blush).
I have exchanged emails with the super. He seems a terrific guy and I cannot wait to see CCS. I believe that my astonishment will match the one that I felt in August and KLCPA felt in September, at CCTroy.
For anyone who wishes to unertake a 10-day Travis Tour across southern Ontario, NY and PA, I'd be happy to set up the party bus if we can get the border negotiations and accessibility issues resolved. We could hit Lookout Point, Cherry Hill, Stafford, Onondaga, Yahnundasis, Scranton, Troy, and three more down NYC way. Could be crazy fun!!!
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Joe,
The perimeter mini-mounds on # 1 green reminded me of the perimeter mounds on the old 12th at GCGC
The aerial photo, circa 1930, looks incredible, a restoration to that photo would be spectacular.
Alex,
I hope you're wrong about Fazio being the consulting architect.
He certainly doesn't have a history of being a restoration advocate
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Sean Arble,
I think I know about what you speak, but I don't see an example of that in any of Joe's photos so far.
Look again at the first hole.
Ciao
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As Pat notes, the 1930 photo is of an incredible golf course. Amazing potential. I hope the club pursues it.
Travis is vastly under appreciated, both for the work he did and the influence he had.
Bob
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Thanks, Joe, for this terrific thread. CC of Scranton is one of my favorite Travis courses--though I must add that I have similar feelings and opinions about most of the other 21 Travis courses I've played. I believe that Scranton stands out because of it's terrific greens, interesting terrain and routing. Their aggressive tree management program has created spectacular vistas across the property restoring the original views as seen in the early 1930s aerial.
Regarding how much of Travis's original plan was actually "put on the ground", a comparison of his layout and the 1930s aerial reveals that most, if not all, of those interesting "sand pit" fairway bunkers in Travis's plan were constructed. The type of bunkering seen in the early aerial was used frequently by Travis, from what I've seen. We had them on my home course, Stafford CC, and you could see them in the early aerials provided in the photo tour thread about Cherry Hill Club. This past Monday, I saw evidence of that type of bunkering at the Stamford Golf Club, in Stamford, NY. In his original drawings, Travis referred to them as "sand pits". Basically, they were clusters of "chocolate drops" with sand amongst them. Did other early architects create that type of bunkering?
With Joe's permission, I would like to post some of his images on the Travis Society website.
Ed
www.travissociety.com
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Sean,
Okay.
I'm not sure I agree with your assessment though as there seems to be a creek that interjects into the fairway and the fairway continues behind and left of the putting green. This does not seem arbitrary and the short grass frames the features on the left side of the putting green nicely. My eye is pulled across those hazards and the pinching to which you refer does not frame the view.
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With Joe's permission, I would like to post some of his images on the Travis Society website.
Ed
www.travissociety.com
Go for it Ed!
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As mentioned in the intro, the next two holes apparently had the greens softened in the 50s or 60s. I guess they aren't quite as severe as others, but still quite challenging.
#4. Par 5 (514 yards).
Cruddy lighting again and perhaps this will convince me to just shoot the hole in reverse and present in that fashion as the last two photos looking back are much better than the first three. :)
Tee view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/4a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/4a.jpg)
The way the fairway wiggles and pinches and with the hazard short and left of the green, you have to play with care on this 'short' par 5.
2nd shot view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/4b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/4b.jpg)
From 100 yards out:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/4c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/4c.jpg)
Two pics looking back from over the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/4d.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/4d.jpg)
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/4e.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/4e.jpg)
#5. Par 3 (205 yards).
Tee view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/5a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/5a.jpg)
From short of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/5b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/5b.jpg)
From long and left of the green, where I love the presentation of the short grass areas:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/5c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/5c.jpg)
After that fairly challenging par 3, you get the No. 1 stroke hole par 4.
#6. Dogleg-right par 4 (462 yards).
Tee view where a line off the TV antennas is pretty good:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/6a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/6a.jpg)
The downhill approach shot here was really beautiful, but I struggled to get a real good pic of it (this one coming from Mark's cam):
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/6b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/6b.jpg)
From just long and left of the green, looking back up the fw:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/6c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/6c.jpg)
And recent interviewee Tommy Naccarato keeps guiding me along in my picture taking world stating how much better this shot would be just raising the camera up a bit more (and he's of course right!):
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/6d.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/6d.jpg)
Three more tomorrow, where perhaps my favorite green appears (the 7th). ;D
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The photo of the downhill approach and the look back up the fwy. of hole #6 could pass as the twin of the 15th at Stamford GC.
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Great tour thus far Joe. Some of these photos turned out fantastic!
Mark
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Joe, this is a great presentation. Thanks
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The photo of the downhill approach and the look back up the fwy. of hole #6 could pass as the twin of the 15th at Stamford GC.
SOOOO predictable, gosh Travis, get a new look!!!
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Post the next hole Joe! I think it's an all world green complex.
Mark
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(still marking papers so I'll only put up the 7th this morning, but perhaps it deserves to go up by itself!)
#7. Dogleg right par 4 (426 yards).
Tee view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/7a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/7a.jpg)
Approach view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/7b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/7b.jpg)
From 75 yards out:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/7c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/7c.jpg)
Really tough pin this day:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/7d.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/7d.jpg)
Only from this view do you see how built up the green is in the back:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/7e.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/7e.jpg)
From the back edge of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/7f.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/7f.jpg)
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I agree with Jim re the similarities between the CC of Scranton's 6th and Stamford's 15th. A striking difference, however, is seen at the green where Stamford's 15th has very interesting and challenging internal contours and, originally, a massive bunker complex. Nothing predictable about those differences, in my opinion. I'm looking forward to seeing Joe's shots of the 8th!
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That 7th green is fantastic. From the tee shot, it looks like the back edge just falls off the face of the earth. (which it sort of does) Anything long could possibly never be found again as it can easily kick down into the trees.
Mark
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Ian Andrew has decided not to wade into this one, but I have played Scranton after the trees were removed and was quite impressed. That said, the club did not want to move forward with a bunker restoration in the style Travis had initially done for the club, despite being taken to a NY club that did restore to Travis' style. So they turfed Ian and hired Fazio, probably spending a fortune on another Master Plan (how stupid are most clubs) and getting an architect (Marzoff) who could likely care less about what Travis did on the site.
Shame clubs go this way, but it isn't surprising. I think the bunkering, for the most part, looks like standard Fazio. In other words, the work of a fine landscape architect.
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Robert, Agreed. I left thinking the course had standard Fazio bunkering.
Mark
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#8. Uphill par 4 (326 yards).
Tee view (choose your club to have a nice short iron in):
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/8a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/8a.jpg)
Approach shot view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/8b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/8b.jpg)
From long and left of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/8c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/8c.jpg)
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9 is a good hole because you are confronted with options off the tee. A driver can creep up past the pinching bunkers, but the conservative play with a long iron to the fat part of the fairway leaves a shot of about 125 into the hole. I recall good scores being made with driver, 3 wood, and 3 iron off the tee.
And yet again, another fantastic hole location. The cup is pinned in an area that has much more break than it looks. It's very easy to have a 6 foot par putt here without blinking.
Mark
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That shot long and left of the 8th green really captures the interesting contours of that green. Gotta post that on the Travis Society website. Thanks for the pics, Joe.
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I was present to play the course as well. I want credit for attending. Me too! Me too!
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The supe has a blog too:
http://www.ccscrantongreen.blogspot.com/
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I was present to play the course as well. I want credit for attending. Me too! Me too!
Doug, were you in the group behind us hitting those massive tee shots?
Mark
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Stay in your lanes, guys!
After the 8th you cross back over the road to play the uphill 9th ending at the clubhouse.
#9. Uphill par 4 (343 yards).
Tee view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/9a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/9a.jpg)
Approach view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/9b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/9b.jpg)
From just short of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/9c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/9c.jpg)
From left of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/9d.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/9d.jpg)
#10. Downhill par 4 (406 yards).
Tee view, where you can just barely see part of the green in the distance:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/10a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/10a.jpg)
Approach shot view to another wonderful green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/10b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/10b.jpg)
From short of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/10c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/10c.jpg)
Nice view of the green taken from near the 11th green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/10d.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/10d.jpg)
More tomorrow.
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I couldnt stop taking pictures of the 10th hole. The green has some good tilt away from the fairway which is evident in the last picture. One thing that's really cool is that you need to be very careful going after the back flags here. Anything long will funnell all the way down into that creek. I dropped a ball just off the back and it went into the water. The green allows for the run up shot which is nice, and I love the way that a player must think twice about attacking a deep flag.
Another wonderful hole..
Mark
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I couldnt stop taking pictures of the 10th hole. The green has some good tilt away from the fairway which is evident in the last picture. One thing that's really cool is that you need to be very careful going after the back flags here. Anything long will funnell all the way down into that creek. I dropped a ball just off the back and it went into the water. The green allows for the run up shot which is nice, and I love the way that a player must think twice about attacking a deep flag.
Another wonderful hole..
Mark
This pic of the 10th green taken from the 18th tee illustrates what Mark is talking about:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/10e.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/10e.jpg)
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#11. Par 3 (161 yards).
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/11a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/11a.jpg)
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/11b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/11b.jpg)
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Three more on this Friday afternoon.
#12. Par 5 (483 yards).
Tee view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/12a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/12a.jpg)
2nd shot view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/12b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/12b.jpg)
From short of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/12c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/12c.jpg)
From just over the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/12d.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/12d.jpg)
#13. Par 4 (382 yards).
Tee view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/13a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/13a.jpg)
Approach view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/13b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/13b.jpg)
From just over the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/13c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/13c.jpg)
#14. Dogleg-left par 5 (583 yards).
The 18th is a pretty good par 5, but I think I like this one even more.
Tee view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/14a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/14a.jpg)
A good drive and you can just typically see part of the flag on the green sitting down low:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/14b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/14b.jpg)
A couple of views from short of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/14c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/14c.jpg)
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/14d.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/14d.jpg)
Looking back up the hole from the back of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/14e.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/14e.jpg)
More over the weekend, I hope!
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Im slightly confused by the bunker styles.
Did travis ever flash the sand in the way that some of those bunkers are at CC of Scranton?
It seems more that this is the "augusta national" influence on the club...
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14 is a neat hole because the player can get home in 2 if they can fly the ball to about 50 yards short of the green and get the forward kick from the speed slot in the last photo. Still a tough two putt once you get on this green!
Mark
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Flashed up greens typically were not Travis's style. However, if you check out the bunkering that Travis did at Hollywood Golf Club in 1917, you will see rare examples of wildly flashed up bunkers by Travis. I like the manner in which the CC of Scranton fairways wrap around the greens. That style is consistent with Travis's original drawings at Scranton as well as at Cherry Hill Club, Stafford CC, CC of Troy and elsewhere. However, I am puzzled by the connection that is made between this style and Australia, implying that Travis was influenced by what was going on in Australia. From what I know of Travis, and the origins of his golf design ideas, that was not the case. After leaving Australia in 1884, as a 23 year old, he returned just once, for a very brief business trip, long before golf was of any interest to him. It was almost as if he had forsaken his Australian heritage; he became a naturalized U.S. Citizen in 1890. In his several writings about golf course architecture, it was always the golf courses of Great Britain and Scotland that he turned to for inspiration.
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That has more to do with Fazio and what the club wanted than what Travis did. Apparently some board knew better than Walter Travis, as is often the case at clubs.
Im slightly confused by the bunker styles.
Did travis ever flash the sand in the way that some of those bunkers are at CC of Scranton?
It seems more that this is the "augusta national" influence on the club...
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Three more today and then I'll finish with the 18th hole tomorrow.
#15. Par 4 (447 yards; No. 2 stroke hole).
Blind tee shot:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/15a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/15a.jpg)
Approach view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/15b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/15b.jpg)
From right of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/15c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/15c.jpg)
From behind the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/15d.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/15d.jpg)
#16. Downhill par 4 (476 yards).
Tee view (not from the tips):
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/16a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/16a.jpg)
Approach shot view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/16b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/16b.jpg)
From the mounding behind the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/16c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/16c.jpg)
#17. Par 3 (248 yards)
Tee view from 195 yard tees:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/17a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/17a.jpg)
From just left of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/17b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/17b.jpg)
From over the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/17c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/17c.jpg)
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I love the liberal use of short grass around the greens. I bet the course would have a completely different feel if they restored the Travis style bunkers given what I have seen in photos of some of his work. A course's bunker style goes a long way in making a place feel special. They can be in the exact same location but if they are uniquely shaped and presented they really add to the experience. Some may think that is just dressing a course up without really adding any substance but I disagree.
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That shot of 17 is calendar material.
Mark
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Time to finish up this wonderful course.
#18. Uphill par 5 (560 yards).
Tee view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18a.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18a.jpg)
Second shot view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18b.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18b.jpg)
Approach shot view:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18c.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18c.jpg)
From short of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18d.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18d.jpg)
View of the green from the 10th tee:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18e.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18e.jpg)
From long and left of the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18f.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18f.jpg)
From just behind the green:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18g.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/Scranton/18g.jpg)
That's all folks. I sure had fun. Thanks to the pro Terry Hurst and their super Greg Boring for making this all possible.
If you wish to view the entire album of pictures, go here:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Scranton/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Scranton/index.html)
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Thanks for the tour Joe. I think this gives a great glance at the course.
Mark
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Thanks for the tour, Joe. Really want to see this one for myself.
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A terrific photo tour of a great golf course. I particularly enjoyed those shots where you captured the intricate internal contours of those CC of Scranton greens. I've posted a few on the Travis Society website. Thanks, Joe.
Ed Homsey
www.travissociety.com
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For anyone who wishes to unertake a 10-day Travis Tour across southern Ontario, NY and PA, I'd be happy to set up the party bus if we can get the border negotiations and accessibility issues resolved. We could hit Lookout Point, Cherry Hill, Stafford, Onondaga, Yahnundasis, Scranton, Troy, and three more down NYC way. Could be crazy fun!!!
Let me know when I should start filing the requisite petitions with the authorities!
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That could be an awesome trip!
Mark
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It would be an awesome trip.
I might be of help in some of the accessibility negotiations.
Ed Homsey
www.travissociety.com
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The presence of both the Fazio fingery bunkers and the ANGC-style ones is extremely jarring to me. There also seems to be little rhyme or reason as to those two styles' respective implementation. There are holed where there are ANGC-style bunkers by the greens and others where it's the standard Fazio style. Very, very odd to me. That said, the greens look so cool that it's not hard to look past the bunkers, which for their inconsistency of look are far from eyesores anyway.
Cool-looking golf course. Thanks for the tour, all.
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The presence of both the Fazio fingery bunkers and the ANGC-style ones is extremely jarring to me. There also seems to be little rhyme or reason as to those two styles' respective implementation. There are holed where there are ANGC-style bunkers by the greens and others where it's the standard Fazio style. Very, very odd to me. That said, the greens look so cool that it's not hard to look past the bunkers, which for their inconsistency of look are far from eyesores anyway.
Like here?
(http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/scranton/11a.jpg)
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Just completed the PA State Senior Am. First state event since the renovation. Course well received.
http://www.pagolf.org/charts.asp?sfile=static/archive/2013_senior_am_story.html
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Awesome. Hopefully a sign of more things to come!
MM
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I can imagine how well the course was received at the PA State Senior Am. It is a terrific course that has some of the greatest Travis greens. I stopped by there recently and was very impressed with the look of the course from the clubhouse. With major tree removal, and major tall grass planting, the course is spectacular. The new bunkering, though dramatically different from the original Travis bunkers on the course, is reminiscent of bunkering that Travis did at Hollywood Golf Club in 1917. It is not a stretch to imagine that the new bunkering is consistent with the Travis philosophy gained from his extensive visit to Great Britain in 1901. That trip was the source of his early ideas about golf course design.
Ed Homsey
www.travissociety.com
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Ed can you post a couple if the old Hollywood pictures for comparison? Thanks!
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I had the great fortune to play this course this week. Greg Boring and Terry Hurst were great hosts and the members that stopped by to chat were informative and helpful. Despite a difficult (understatement) winter, Greg has the course in unbelievable (no hyperbole) shape. If dermatologists could do for teenaged skin what Greg did for CCS' greens, we'd have no more acne.
CCS has a marvelous set of Travis greens. 16 of them are original and the club seems to have plans to reclaim the other two. Numbers 9 and 18 are out of this world; numbers 10 and 7 are right behind, and the others are probably unlike anything you've seen if you don't know Travis.
The movement across the land is enchanting and there is a mixture of (mainly) up and down holes, and flat holes. I don't suffer from vertigo, but all great courses with topographical undulation need and have a balance between vertical and horizontal. There is great width and the rough is quite playable. If you lose a ball, you've really hit a goony.
It is unfortunate that the decision to not restore the bunkers to Travis' specs was made and carried out. CCS deserves to have its fairways and greens be the focal visual points of the round and too often, they are overshadowed by large, flashed-up bunkers.
I recommend this course to anyone with the opportunity to reach Scranton. Travis rejected four or five sites before settling on this one. Back in the day, Scranton was an energy capital of North America, not yet the butt of jokes in "The Office," so there was plenty of money to entice Old Walter J. to come to town and build a great track.
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16 of them are original and the club seems to have plans to reclaim the other two.
15 - Greens 4,5 and 11 are not originals
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YOU"RE RIGHT!!! I forgot about 11. And our hosts even told us. #shameonme
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Not to nitpick, Ron, but Travis was asked to inspect two proposed sites for the CC of Scranton course. In his letter of June 6, 1925, he was emphatic in his recommendation for the site on which the course is built. His letter contained an interesting appraisal of the land, including comments about routing that would avoid "holes running into the sun in the afternoon".
Great that you had the opportunity to play CC of Scranton.
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Nitpick all you want, Ed. As Kevin Lynch says, "your money's no good when I'm around."
Dr. Gershey wanted to say "hello" to you.
There may have been some embellishment on their (or my) part on the number of rejected sites.
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Great looking course Joe. I played Cape Arumdel 2 weeks ago for the first time and I see many similarities.
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Wow!!! I played up at CC of Scranton on Friday and it is all that! Absolutely a wonderful old school course with possibly the best set of greens that I have ever seen. While the world probably does not really need a lot of Travis wannabe's making greens the original was really special based on the 15 greens that I saw. I'll have more to add when I get some time but suffice to say that everyone should try to make the trip up there. The staff treated us wonderfully and GCA'er Greg Boring, the superintendent, recognized my name on the tee sheet and came out to say hi. The course was in wonderful nick as Arble would say and the tree removal made for an awesome set of long views across the property. The greens were the fastest I've played all year but not by too much. Honestly there was no need to run them as fast as they were given the challenge in the contours, (I would guess they were running 11.5 to 12, maybe 12.5) saying that there were no clown's mouths and the pins all played fairly.
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The course looks really good. I have heard that the course was underrated and was definitely something to see. These pictures look like it could be even more than that.
Unfortunately, the bunker style is simply terrible. The whole course looks so natural upon the land. The bunker style simply doesn't fit. I understand courses not wanting to restore a bunkering style that may be difficult to maintain. So if they don't want to go back to the original Travis bunkers (which looked quite interesting, but with a ton of hand mowing accompanying it), I get it. However, a classic grass faced style that Travis would have possibly used is at least needed. This style is a scar upon the land as it looks wholly unnatural and doesn't fit the course. Shame because it looks truly special otherwise.
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The bunkering was jarring at times. I did not really think that any single bunker was too offputting but the different styles on the same hole was weird. The guys I played with, two club pros and a well traveled Hershey member, did not seem to find them as odd as I did. The flashed face bunkers were strange in that the tops of the lips were not at green height but rather 6-10 inches above green height with a sharp downhill fringe needed to tie back to the green. They did not naturally tie iback into the green surrounds at all but did serve to add quite a bit of required height to the recovery shot. They were effectively very deep bunkers and I am sure that travelling players that are not used to steep and deep must be shocked when they find themselves in some of them.
The strangeness of the bunkering did not lessen the joy of the course. Some renovation work like the the rebuilt 4th and 9th greens at Schuylkill are much more annoying to me than these bunkers. Does anyone know what these bunkers looked like originally? Maybe on the next investment cycle they will try for a more coherent style.
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I've fixed all the broken links so these wonderful greens can be experienced again!
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I played the golf course this summer. Highlight are the greens as everyone has said. The greens have a tremendous amount of internal contour with surrounding mounding that is integrated into the edges. The Marzolf bunkering is bold and artistic (though very arbitrary in regard to the grassing schemes). Some bunkers have thick fescue surrounds on the back supports while many others are closely mown. Most bunkers feature high flashed sand to the top edge maintained with the Austrailan method of firm compacted sand on the faces to drawn balls to the bottoms. There are numerous drainage issues on the course and some of the mounding is a bit contrived/overdone. Also many of the approaches need attention due to years of heavy topdressing. Well worth seeing but unfortunately if you are a purist, [/size]much of the original Travis look/feel has been lost. Still an excellent golf course.