Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Sean_A on August 29, 2012, 05:28:19 AM
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Many a golfer has loyalty to one or the other, but few doubt the greatness of Sunningdale’s Old and New courses. Each has their origins in the heathland revolution which was ignited by the likes of Willie Park Jr, WH Fowler, A McKenzie, HS Colt; all grandees of British golf architecture history. All would have their opinions made known through their heathland masterpieces, though it is Willie Park Jr who is often forgotten. Ironic then that it is likely him more than anybody who is responsible for the first attempt to transplant some of the ideals captured in links into inland designs. An epic year, 1901, saw the opening of three iconic Park Jr designs, Sunningdale Old, Huntercombe & Notts. While altered to one degree or another, these courses clearly demonstrate that change in golf course design was afoot. However, no course to date was on the scale of Sunningdale in terms of ambition or cost. Amazingly, at the time, it was not advisable to build a course over sandy heathland terrain. The concept required a breakthrough in that Sunningdale was the first course to be wholly sown from seed. Combined with the prodigious scale of the design (trees and a severe reduction of green size would later visually reduce the scale dramatically), the two concepts launched Sunningdale into instant fame.
That isn’t to say Sunningdale left no room for criticism. In The American Golfer of March 1917: Park and the Past, Henry Leach stated “He (Park Jr) was responsible for the primary design of the latter (Sunningdale), a beautiful course cut out of a wilderness of heather on some high, rolling land in Berkshire. Mr Colt soon set himself to work on the first designs when they had been applied, and he has carried out vast improvements on the original model, so that Sunningdale as we know it now, the inland course that I still consider as the best and most delightful to play upon in the whole of Britain is not at all what was at first. Still Willie was in at the beginning with Sunningdale; that is a lasting distinction.”
Bernard Darwin, among others, believed Sunningdale had major deficiencies with the short holes and that the course played extremely long for the handicap player. As if by magic, the introduction of the Haskell solved the length problem. It would take the hand of an experienced architect to develop Sunningdale into the course we see today; enter HS Colt...except, Colt wasn’t terribly experienced! Colt left the legal profession and would have taken a significant cut in salary when hired as the club secretary in 1901 for £150 per annum. Colt would over the course of the next decade, if not alter the fabric of Sunningdale Old; essentially use the course as a canvass for the invention of what has become modern design. Two of the primary traits of Colt’s style was a steadfast adherence to naturalism and to place greens on plateaux; a design concept which carried through the next 115 years and remains popular to this day. Two of the most high profile examples at Sunningdale are short holes, the 4th and 8th. In all, I believe Colt created four new holes (4, 8,12 & 17), altered seven green sites, altered the bunker scheme and a completed a striking reduction in green sizes (1, 6, 11, 12 & 15 are about half their original size).
Sunningdale has hosted countless top flight events including the inaugural Professional Matchplay Championship in 1903, The Women’s British Open, The Walker Cup and of course The Open’s first sectional qualifying in 1926 when Bobby Jones shot an “incredible and indecent” 66; 33 going out, 33 coming back, 33 putts and 33 other shots. However, the club may well be most proud as the host for the annual Sunningdale Foursomes. Amateurs and professionals alike vie not for prize money, but for the distinction of one’s name appearing in gold letters on the handsome honours board.
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Prior to the opening of the New Course, the first tee was under the shade of the famous oak. Even so, the current shot is attractive. In days gone by, the fairway was further left. When land was acquired the area where the humps are became part of the course.
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The Sunningdale Urns which contained Iron Age body parts found in these mounds are now in the Reading Museum.
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Looking back to the house; at one time the 1st and 17th greens were combined.
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The difficult 2nd and short two-shotter 3rd are very much as Park designed. One can readily see the similarity between the 2nd and many holes at Huntercombe.
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3rd.
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3rd back in the day.
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As noted previously, the short 4th was completely changed by Colt. Just this year the tee was moved further right. This new placement offers the advantage of shots less likely leaking right onto the rear path and the green fully opens up. Previously, trees on the left hindered the shot a bit too much.
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4th back in the day.
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4th green during 1912 PGA Matchplay. Look at the contours!
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The 5th is reputed to be the first hole in the UK to incorporate a specific golf-related man-made water hazard. Many people dislike the hazard, but I like it.
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At some point between Colt resigning as Secretary in 1913 and prior to the completion of the New Course in 1922, the green was sensibly moved further right behind the pond.
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I suspect this heather clad mound is spoil from the pond; very Walton Heath like. (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4353/36599815576_a0f1886193_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4353/36599815576_a0f1886193_b.jpg)
The attractive 6th is as Park Jr designed. In essence, with a required carry for the approach, the 6th is quite similar to the 5th.
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Radically altered from Park Jr's 7th, Colt considerably shortened the hole by eliminating the dogleg left to a green well removed from the present green. After a blind drive, the hole moves slightly right over an interrupted fairway. I believe the empty pit on the left now has sand in it.
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Looking back to the tee.
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Darwin thought Colt's change to the seventh making the once blind par three 8th more visible was to great advantage. I am not convinced visibility was the main problem with the hole. The Colt version isn't a paragon of visibility. I don't think there is enough green surface to properly accomodate keen conditions.
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The short par 4 ninth and much longer two-shot 10th are essentially Park Jr holes, but the 10th is decidely better. Although, I think the club recently placed bunkers in the heathery upslope area of the 9th.
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H Rountree Watercolour of the 10th.
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The 10th as Park Jr and later Colt designed the hole.
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Closer to the green.
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Looking back to the tee.
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More to follow.
Ciao
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Lovely looking course. Awaiting the back 9 and a report on the famous sausage sandwich too, of course.
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Great pictures and write-up. I've always loved the look of heathland courses and Sunningdale especially. The angles on both shots on the 10th hole look very compelling, I'm sure I could convince myself to overswing every time.
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Sean -
Great pics of a wonderful golf course. I am not sure there is anything prettier in golf than a heathland course when the heather is in bloom.
DT
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I think my gent of a host told me that the water on 5 was the first ever artificial water feature on a golf course which is pretty cool.
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The clubhouse and food is exceptional. I'll never forget walking up the stairs to the visitor's locker room past the scorecard of Jones' Perfect Round. Once we arrived in the visitor's locker room, we were surprised to find it empty, except for Hugh Grant!
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Of any club where I have been fortunate enough to play golf in my life, Sunningdale tops the list of places I would most like to be a member (and I have only played the Old). Just a completely exceptional place.
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Sean, are you fan of the location of the that left fairway bunker on 10?
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Thank you for the tour...Sunningdale Old and New are on my short list of courses to visit sooner than later.
Just from pictures, it seems like the two courses are very complimentary of each other. Would be awesome to be able to have that choice as a member.
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Brian
Knowing that pix are mostly about light, I am not one to spend much on cameras. I use a Samsung ES71 - picked it up for £80 a year or so ago.
Mark
The left bunker isn't bad. It more or less keeps longer players who want to bail left honest. I don't like how it is angled the same as the bunker middle bunker. I think it should be facing more toward the tee.
SUNNY OLD TOUR CONT
It was the case with the Park design that a large bunker had to be carried off the 11th tee because the green was some 60 yards left of the present green. Recently, that bunker seems to have been restored :D (though I don't have a photo of it). It would seem Colt's original green was far bigger than today's. A tee shot bailed left on this short par 4 will encounter difficulties for the approach to this raised green with a bunker on the left corner.
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A view of the 12th green as it is today. Some may ask what happened?
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Simpson's sketch of Colt's 12th.
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More to follow.
Ciao
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:) :-*
Peter
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One of my good mates is a member of Deal, Sunningdale and the R&A jealous or what!!
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I want to be Sean Arble when (if) I grow up.
Very handsome, in full bloom, heathland classic.
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SUNNY OLD TOUR CONT
Perhaps the most radically altered hole, the short 13th used to be a blind, short par 4 played from a spot right of the 12th green. I believe the photo below was the view of the green from the top of the hill. As is the case today, the second runs behind the green from right to left. Today, views of the 17th beyond are blocked by trees.
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The original Park Jr green was rectangular. The large ditch at the rear of the green is possibly a remnant of a Park Jr coffin bunker. The heavily criticised new hole was dubbed Colts Po! (chamber pot) by the members. A blind par 4 here sounds quite compelling to me, especially if the Colt green is in place with bunkers in the face of the hill as I suspect may have been the case for a while.
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14-16 would likely be recognizable by Park Jr as not much has changed. The 14th is a reachable par 5 followed by a demanding long one-shotter. I can't help but think the green should extend much further forward on the 15th. The sixteenth turns the golfer toward home and features a plethora of bunkers including a string of pearls. Right bunkers off the tee are blind and some near the green are blind.
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The lovely 17th legs hard right, so much so that it is very possible to run out of room driving down the middle. The hole originally continued straight to share a double green with the first. The green was also briefly further right than today's placement. When Colt built the New Course the green had to be pushed left to make space for the New's 1st and 18th. In any case, this is one of my favourite holes on the property.
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The 17th back in the day, not much has changed.
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For the same reasons as the previous hole, the 18th green too had to be moved left. Further alterations were made courtesy of the Luftwaffe in 1940. Several bombs were released around Sunningdale with the result being the right side of the 18th green was bombed into submission, the same could not be said for the remainder of England. Instead of repairing the damage, two bunkers were created in the perfect spot to catch out the overly aggressive golfer.
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There isn't much more to say...except Sunningdale has that certain something. 2* 2017
Ran's Review.
http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/england/sunningdale-golf-club-old-course/ (http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/england/sunningdale-golf-club-old-course/)
Sunningdale New Course
www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33173.msg659312.html#msg659312 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33173.msg659312.html#msg659312)
A special thank you to the Good Doctor for his kind offer.
Ciao
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Sean,
Thanks for the terrific photos. I think I will be going back to this thread on many occasions. It looks like a great course and your effort has made it available to all.
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Sean,
Thanks for the wonderful images and a look at one of my favorite clubs.
One thing I do remember about Sunningdale was the size of the bets, I thought my stay at Riviera was a bit of an eye-opener but it did not prepare me for the gaming by the Brits.
Bob
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Phenomenal photos Sean - thank you!
I played Sunningdale Old in mid-June. Even though the heather wasn't in bloom, I thought it was one of the most stunning golf courses I've seen.
When did you play here Sean - recently? If so, the mowing lines have altered since I played - they were cut with a light/dark shade with the stripe running down the middle. I'm not sure which I prefer.
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Have those silly bunkers either side of teh 16th settled down
played there about 4 years ago when they were newish and they looked so out of place
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Sean
Nice tour.
I still think the new Hawtree bunker remodels on holes like 3, 10, 16 are way too curvy and symmetrical, it doesn't work and looks modern. All it needed was the rugged, "torn out ridge" heathland look that Coore does...
I think the 11th was once a big double plateau green...the bunker would have been where the middle of the green was...with the fairway plateau joining the current green.
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For instance, Mure Fergusson demonstrated that a course could be cut from the wilds of heathland forest at New Zealand in 1895. This simple enterprise which would today be seen as commonplace, must have set off alarm bells for the likes of other British architects such HS Colt, H Fowler and Dr Mackenzie; for it is Park Jr, along with these men which propelled a revolution in design which is difficult to exaggerate. If one were to add CB Macdonald and T Simpson to that list it might be reasonable to claim that between these six men the canon of golf architecture is encapsulated.
Certainly if one only played courses by those six, life would be pretty good.
Great tour & photos. I have to make a London trip next year. Sunningdale & Huntercombe are tops on my list to visit, and returns to Deal, Sandwich, and Swinley would make pretty much a perfect trip.
What are they feeding some of that heather?
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The heather has been so strong this year, think it is due to the changeable weather, we had a hot dry spring followed by a wet summer which means it is very thick indeed (as is the rough).
Lovely pictures by Sean, as always.
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Great tour Sean. Sunningdale (both courses) is just stunning! Nothing more really needs to be said.
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Sunningdale (both courses) is just stunning! Nothing more really needs to be said.
Heathland courses with heather in bloom are, for me, every bit as attractive as seaside courses with more dramatic views.
Sunningdale on a day like Sean caught it seems about all one could ask for.
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Great pics Sean. In some ways the most striking feature is the luminous, nearly Irish, green colour of the fairways. What a summer it has been!
I agree with Paul re the Hawtree bunkers, especially on 16 - did not use to look like that.
I am surprised you did not make more of the slope on the second green, which makes the approach and playing of it so difficult; and also that you were not more complimentary about 11 which is a great hole - small yet exceptionally tricky if you are out of position.
I think one of the protections of some of these holes is the semi-blind approaches such as to 2, 3, 18 which makes it hard to get the ball close.
Agree that the approach to 7 is maybe the best moment on the course - but also, as you say, that it is hard to match 4-6 on the New. But what a pleasure it always is to be at Sunningdale!
Philip
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Bob - Sunnngdale has long been famous for big bets. Within a foursome £1 or a £1000 a week bet usually evens out over a period of time, the issue is when the "mug" guest is taken into the bet.
From my experiences bets of more than £20 are pretty rare at the clubs I've been involved in. My favourite is the $1 betting at Chicago where the competition and winning is the important thing.
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Of all the courses I see pictures of on this site, Sunningdale is the one where those pictures most compel me to arrange a game there. Beautiful. Thanks, Sean.
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Mark - join the emergency service or clergy, Sunningdale offers a generous discount! £85 Old Course, £60 New.
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I'd be interested in pencilling in a day next March if anyone would care to join me?
Must be nearly a decade since I played there and yet I can recall so many of these holes with absolute clarity. Much of what’s happened since, is now a blur. Never seen a better 36 hole complex.
http://www.sunningdale-golfclub.co.uk/greenfees
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It'd have to be late March to get 36 holes in comfortably; unfortunately the clocks don't go forward until March 31st next year.
But yes, I'd be interested. These photos look fabulous.
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I'd be interested in pencilling in a day next March if anyone would care to join me?
Must be nearly a decade since I played there and yet I can recall so many of these holes with absolute clarity. Much of what’s happened since, is now a blur. Never seen a better 36 hole complex.
http://www.sunningdale-golfclub.co.uk/greenfees
Tony,
I am probably going to be over for the Brassey Easter weekend (3/28-31/13) festivities so would definitely be interested in 36 at Sunningdale before or after.
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Tony,
Looks good to me, if we can agree a date.
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Dan - that's great news look forward to catching up. Are you in Scottsdale late Feb/early March? Nicky and I are planning a few days at Whisper Rock, then non-golfing in Las Vegas and San Francisco.
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Mark,
I'll be at Desert Forest March 7th to the 17th for the club championship. Did you get to enjoy Deal week?
Dan
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Sean, thank you for taking the effort to post these great pictures of this wonderful course, I hope to get to see it soon.
Happy "Aussie" Fathers Day to you all.
Sean, are you able to tell me what turfs are used? ...and are hey drains in front of second tee, are they across the course and do they features part of the design?
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There are narrow ditches on a lot of the holes (2, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16 and 18) and they sometimes come into play. If you do go into one, then you have to drop out as they are too narrow to get a swing at the ball.
It has to be a pretty bad shot to go in one of the ditches though!
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Thanks Sean. Sunningdale is one of those magical places. It is a pretty short list that has two courses of this quality. It is certainly my favorite inland place to play in England. Looks like you had a perfect day to play it.
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Availablilty.
Apparently they won't be opening next year's booking until October! Also the chap I spoke to suggests the last 3 weeks in March are unlikely to have any availabilty due to Club activities!!
I will bump this in October as I would be up for a game in early March. Duncan I'm confident 36 holes can be done at that time of year as long as we're early out.
Dan, hope to meet you on your trip but it doesn't look like it will be at Sunningdale.
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Tony if memory serves me right the Sunningdale Foursomes is mid to late March
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Either Sunningdale course is a wonderful test of golf. On a sunny day with a gentle, cooling breeze they are as close to Heaven as you can get.
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Thanks Sean. Sunningdale is one of those magical places. It is a pretty short list that has two courses of this quality. It is certainly my favorite inland place to play in England. Looks like you had a perfect day to play it.
Tommy, how far back would you place Walton Heath? I've only played the Old but wow! Unfortunately have never played Sunningdale, fully booked when I wrote before my first trip to England 20+ years ago.
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Bill - I'd place Sunningdale as the best day out in the UK, it has everything, two great courses, history, nice clubhouse, etc.
Walton Heath is a distant 2nd but above The Berkshire and St George's Hill of the more than 18 hole clubs. Walton Heath lacks behind on 2 points, peace and tranquility - the M25 can be noisy, sadly there is nothing the club can do about it and secondly the New lacks balance with the last par 3 being the 10th and it's a long run in from there. I am still considering joining though!
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I have played my fair share of golf at 'heavenly' Sunningdale but not for a couple of years. It was easy to notice an 'excessive?' amount of new bunkering in those beautifully shot pix. The overall impression might be described as having far too much orderly sameness but it might also be an extra picky attitude on my part. The new fairway bunkering at Nos. 10 and 16 may conceivably make those holes play easier by 'directing traffic' when in the past the lazy golfer was lulled into a false sense of security. Sunningdale GC needs to be careful. When something is so close to perfection, efforts at 'improvement' can turn out to be the direct opposite.
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Ivan, well said. I enjoyed your interview and comparison of Lahinch and Ballybunion which I had the good fortune to play this year. Lahinch seemed a better challenge with wonderful history and Ballybunion was simply a joy.
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Thank you, Dan. Next time you are in my neck of the woods - let me know. I'll try to join you for a game at Ballybee, Lahinch or Doonbeg which I enjoy playing as much as the other two.
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Thank you Ivan. I hope to be back to the homeland for a visit soon, maybe next year. In a few years, once work obligations will permit, I would like to stay for an extended time somewhere in the vicinity of Ballybunion, Doonbeg or Lahinch. We played Doonbeg twice with members who are related to one of my friends. I had recalled it being somewhat maligned on here when it opened but all of us enjoyed playing there quite a bit and the facilities are great and the setting is magnificent. I enjoyed some of the modern quirkiness. I have some very nice photos so should start a Doonbeg thread so we can get back to Sunningdale on this thread. Cheers.
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Doonbeg seems to be gradually recovering from the overly harsh criticism it suffered when it opened. A course can do a lot of 'maturing' in 10-years and Doonbeg certainly has done so. Bottom line is I enjoy playing there almost as much as I enjoy playing at BB, Lahinch or SUNNINGDALE!! ;-)))))) AND, and I definitely prefer doing my practice routines there over anywhere else in the Emerald Isle. A good PG is a good enough reason for me to enjoy a GC. I must start a new thread - naming my favorite 18-holes in Ireland in chronological order. I'll put some thought into my favorite 18 NOT IN Ireland too - that will be a bit of a world tour!
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About the prevalence of betting at Sunningdale (or anywhere else for that matter), I've often wondered if there is a connection between how a course evolves and the prevailing playing culture of a club. That is, will a course tend to evolve in a different direction if the club is oriented to member gaming versus a club where the focus is medal play events.
I can think of lots of ways in which those different ways of playing golf would affect the kinds of architectural features a club would choose to emphasize.
Bob
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I personally find that having a bet on the game makes me play better and also gets you more used to playing under some form of pressure.
The way the matches are structured ensures that there is pretty much always something to play for over the last few holes, and if you finish with four pars you'll not normally lose money!
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Tom -
Those are my preferences as well.
My suggestion is that such preferences raise architectural questions. If influential members of a club feel as you and I do about the pleasures of betting, doesn't that suggest that we/they would prefer playing on more dramatic courses? That is, on courses with the kinds of features that bring about wider separations between the outcomes of good and not so good shots?
As opposed to courses oriented to medal play where consistent ball-striking is of higher relative importance?
Bob
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Indeed Bob,
I believe that a good shot should be rewarded and a poor shot punished, which often happens more on the better courses (as opposed to a lot of more open courses with less trouble and less strategic design).
Several gorse bushes have been cut back on the New course which has meant shots that would have been punished are now not. Personally I disagree with this.
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Indeed Bob,
I believe that a good shot should be rewarded and a poor shot punished, which often happens more on the better courses (as opposed to a lot of more open courses with less trouble and less strategic design).
Several gorse bushes have been cut back on the New course which has meant shots that would have been punished are now not. Personally I disagree with this.
But Tom, gorse gets bigger over time, does it not? If it weren't cut back from time to time, the playing corridors would get narrower, and the golf balls swallowed up more frequently.
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Indeed Bob,
I believe that a good shot should be rewarded and a poor shot punished, which often happens more on the better courses (as opposed to a lot of more open courses with less trouble and less strategic design).
Several gorse bushes have been cut back on the New course which has meant shots that would have been punished are now not. Personally I disagree with this.
Tom I hope Bob sees this becasue I'm not sure that's what he meant. Surely on a strategic course good shots get proprotionally rewarded, it's on a penal course where poor shots are always punished?
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Ben
I played Sunny Old a few weeks ago. The mowing pattern has never been much of a concern for me though I prefer the up and back split.
Josh
The bunker style doesn't bother me much. A bit of heather here and there and its sorted. Loads of heathland bunkers are in truth rather bland.
Paul
Yes, I was expecting more from #11. Not sure where I read it, but I too thought the green was meant to be big.
AA
For sure #2 is a brute. Chipping to the green is very difficult to judge.
#11 was okay, but in a soft area of the course. As Paul mentioned, for some reason I thought the green was going to be much larger.
Brett
I don't know the turf.
Ivan
I am in your camp. Sunny Old is about as perfect as perfect gets, but I would have preferred more mounding as seen on the first. While quite imaginative in its placement, the bunkering does run a bit wild here and there.
Thanks all for the kind comments.
Ciao
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All...see the updated tour.
Ciao
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Sean
How would you describe the condition and presentation on the Old?
I was shocked in March by the excellent playing surfaces on the new in comparison to the old.
Would be good to get a summer perspective.
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Ryan
Sunny Old was in excellent nick.
Ciao
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All
While Pests were battling for honour on Monday I escaped home with a detour to Sunningdale. Sunny Old is as impressive as ever! See the updated tour.
www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,53335.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,53335.0.html)
Ciao