Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Howard Riefs on April 20, 2012, 02:53:10 PM
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"Can I quickly get a new bunker over here on #17?" asks Mike Davis.
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2012/4/20/olympic-club-getting-a-new-bunker-this-week.html (http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2012/4/20/olympic-club-getting-a-new-bunker-this-week.html)
Per Geoff Shackelford:
- The bunker will extend the right half green complex bunkering on the par-5 17th to break up a newly widened fairway that extends all the way to the right of the green, where a huge chipping area down the slope figures to add some zesty risk-reward equations to the tournament mix.
- The new bunker leaves about a 40-50 yard recovery shot.
- USGA Executive Director Mike Davis is behind the decision to add the bunker and made the call to install it in February upon club approval. After seeing that the newly widened fairway tied into the green complex short grass was going to reduce or eliminate the temptation to go for the green in two shots, Davis felt a bunker would eliminate decision-making.
- Davis said, "I really think the lay-up would have been so easy and the pitch shot so easy that it would have backfired in what we were trying to do which is to say, hey guys, either go for it, or if you’re going to lay up on this incredibly short par-5, you’ve got to hit a good layup shot."
- The USGA will be paying for the installation and removal of the bunker, should the club decide to take it out after the Open, which Davis believes will be the case because of the severity of the new tight grass area would be too much for every day play.
For those that know the course, is the bunker needed? Do you believe it will be removed after the tournament?
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If they're going to widen the fairway out like that, then yeah, I suppose it's needed. I thought they were just mowing the area right of the green, not the entire approach.
Has this happened before anywhere? A bunker added just for a tournament with the expectation that it would be removed shortly after the tournament?
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"Can I quickly get a new bunker over here?" LOL
Why didn't he ask for a lake?
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There happens to be a large crew installing new greens, bunkers and tees over on the Ocean course right now during the period when the second course is closed for the US Open (to accomodate all of the hospitality and support tents.)
I imagine that they could pop over to 17 on the Lake course and make a new bunker during their lunch break. : )
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I think it's a great idea. There are removeable tattoos for weekend Harley riders, why not removable bunkers for weekend touring pros?
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The bunker site in question, as of April 12, 2012.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o64/kiteboymm/IMG_0736.jpg)
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Que the Joel Stewart meltdown...
;)
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Que the Joel Stewart meltdown...
;)
Oy....
I'm kind of giddy about this. Since the superintendent doesn't listen to the members, green committee, general manager or board of directors, I kind of like the USGA making changes against his will.
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Will this qualify as a fairway bunker?
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Que the Joel Stewart meltdown...
;)
Oy....
I'm kind of giddy about this. Since the superintendent doesn't listen to the members, green committee, general manager or board of directors, I kind of like the USGA making changes against his will.
How does he keep his job then if he doesn't do what the club wants?
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Que the Joel Stewart meltdown...
;)
Oy....
I'm kind of giddy about this. Since the superintendent doesn't listen to the members, green committee, general manager or board of directors, I kind of like the USGA making changes against his will.
How does he keep his job then if he doesn't do what the club wants?
Good question Michael, I was wondering the same thing.
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FWIW, Mike Davis also added a bunker in the layup zone on the par 5 18th at Chambers Bay, the bunker is now known as "the brazilian".
thanks
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It will be interesting to see what effect this will have on the players decision process. It seems very strange to have come to the realization so late in the game though. It will be interesting to see if they end up keeping it or not.
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I pointed out Matthew's photo to Geoff Shackelford. He included it along with a photo credit in Golf World Monday:
http://www.golfworldmonday.com/golfworldmonday/20120423/?pg=7&pm=1&u1=friend#pg14 (http://www.golfworldmonday.com/golfworldmonday/20120423/?pg=7&pm=1&u1=friend#pg14)
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Que the Joel Stewart meltdown...
;)
Oy....
I'm kind of giddy about this. Since the superintendent doesn't listen to the members, green committee, general manager or board of directors, I kind of like the USGA making changes against his will.
How does he keep his job then if he doesn't do what the club wants?
Good question Michael, I was wondering the same thing.
Hard to give you a quick answer. You have a club with 2 facilities and 3 golf courses and 8,000 members. It's a massive organization. With that said, you have a new president and multiple new board members every year. You also have a new green chair every few years and turn over on the green committee every year. Nobody wants to rock the boat and nobody asks any questions.
As I have said before, the superintendent when you first meet him is a very nice guy soft spoken guy. Also, he knows how to grow grass. Since his budget is top secret and members nor the green committee are allowed to see it, you begin to see a darker side.
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If they're going to widen the fairway out like that, then yeah, I suppose it's needed. I thought they were just mowing the area right of the green, not the entire approach.
Has this happened before anywhere? A bunker added just for a tournament with the expectation that it would be removed shortly after the tournament?
I don't have a bunker story for you, but just before teeing off in the third round of the 2003 US Open at Olympia Fields, Tom Meeks asked me for permission to trim back a tree that overhung part of the #4 (for the Open) hole, so they could use that side of the green for a hole location. Permission granted.
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Que the Joel Stewart meltdown...
;)
Oy....
I'm kind of giddy about this. Since the superintendent doesn't listen to the members, green committee, general manager or board of directors, I kind of like the USGA making changes against his will.
How does he keep his job then if he doesn't do what the club wants?
Good question Michael, I was wondering the same thing.
Hard to give you a quick answer. You have a club with 2 facilities and 3 golf courses and 8,000 members. It's a massive organization. With that said, you have a new president and multiple new board members every year. You also have a new green chair every few years and turn over on the green committee every year. Nobody wants to rock the boat and nobody asks any questions.
As I have said before, the superintendent when you first meet him is a very nice guy soft spoken guy. Also, he knows how to grow grass. Since his budget is top secret and members nor the green committee are allowed to see it, you begin to see a darker side.
What a nightmare of a job. 8,000 bosses all with their own opinions...ouch!
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What a nightmare of a job. 8,000 bosses all with their own opinions...ouch!
It isn't quite as bad as it might seem.
Most of those 7000-8000 members are "downtown" members, not golf members.
Out at the Lakeside facility the pro shop guys don't ever refer to us "downtown" members as "members" (nice to be loved, eh? :-\)
I don't know how many golf members there are but I would guess that the number is less than 1000, perhaps significantly less. Not a small number compared to many private golf clubs but substantially less than the somewhat scary 8000 figure quoted above. I'm sure somebody around here knows the actual number.
As you might expect, most of the member input relating to golf at the club comes from the golf members.
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Davis is who made the other change to begin with. I think he butchered up the hole with that one. This trap will make one think twice about snuggling up to the green in 2. That will be a hard shot from there. So this change is a good one. The other was you miss right in 2 and you make par at best. If you are there in 3 it is a bogie. There is nowhere near a thousand golf members
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And the new bunker is in!
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o64/kiteboymm/Newbunker17Olympic.jpg)
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I guess I wouldn't have thought of 55 yards as the "layup zone"? But maybe I'm misunderstanding how it will play.
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Folks just can't resist the urge to hang an ornament on the tree. Smacks of hubris in my book.
Bogey
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I'm kind of giddy about this. Since the superintendent doesn't listen to the members, green committee, general manager or board of directors, I kind of like the USGA making changes against his will.
Sounds like he's putting on a brave face:
“I think it’s going to be dramatic,” Olympic Club superintendent Pat Finlen said today. “Mike is trying to encourage players to go for the green (in two) or lay up quite a ways from the green.
“His thought is, someone could hit their second shot down there and have a relatively easy shot into the green. The whole idea is to put the risk-reward back into it.”
http://blog.sfgate.com/ongolf/2012/04/23/olympic-clubs-new-bunker-at-no-17-could-spice-up-u-s-open/ (http://blog.sfgate.com/ongolf/2012/04/23/olympic-clubs-new-bunker-at-no-17-could-spice-up-u-s-open/)
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Tom's below comment in the NGLA/Merion thread got me thinking...
I'm not sure what would be the purpose of altering National beyond recognition in order to stage a U.S. Open there. Then again, I'm still not sure what was the purpose of doing it to Merion.
P.S. The fallacy of it all is the notion that the club will "change it back" after the tournament is over. Any word from Merion on whether they've restored #12 green? Of course they haven't ... because then they would have to cannibalize it AGAIN to host another Open somehwere down the line. The carrot will always be dangling on the stick for these clubs.
Did the Olympic ever remove this new bunker on #17 that Davis put in just before the 2012 U.S. Open? He thought they later would:
"The USGA will be paying for the installation and removal of the bunker, should the club decide to take it out after the Open, which Davis believes will be the case because of the severity of the new tight grass area would be too much for every day play.[/i]
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Nope, the bunker is as it was for the Open. As is the shaved area to the right and back of the green.
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Nope, the bunker is as it was for the Open. As is the shaved area to the right and back of the green.
Thanks, Mike.