Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Sean_A on March 12, 2012, 07:40:04 AM
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Ahhhh, Saunton. The view upon turning the corner of the house must rank as one of the highlights of British golf. The 18th green is nestled just below the veranda, the plateau first tee to the middle of the vista and on the far right, the West’s first hole strikes off into the massive (5 square miles) Braunton Burrows. This dunes system is the largest in England and backs three miles of the glorious Saunton Sands beach. Just above the northern end of the beach stands the Saunton Sands Hotel. Even if one has no intention of taking a bed, the hotel is well worth visiting for its celebrated views of Barnstable Bay.
The original layout, like so many in England, was a Tom Dunn design which Herbert Fowler re-designed in 1919. The product of this work had the great advantage of post-dating the arrival of the Haskell and was thus considered a fine and difficult test from its inception. In 1932 the club hosted its first major event, the British Ladies Championship, won by the formidable Miss Enid Wilson – the middle of three in a row. Since this time many important amateur and professional events have taken place at Saunton, including the Brabazon Trophy on four occasions and the British Boys in 1997, the year a teenage Sergio Garcia was crowned champion.
Some twenty or so years after Fowler completed his design the course was used by American troops training for the Normandy landing. As can be imagined, the links didn’t fare very well in these circumstances and in the early 50s, the thoroughly under-rated CK Cotton brought the course back to life and made significant changes, especially to the start and end of the round. The course we play today is largely the same with the exception of additional bunkering scattered here and there.
Saunton is well known for its bruising start and rightfully so; the first four holes cover not far off 1670 yards. The opener is a straightish banger playing into the wind - most will not feel as though they lost a shot to par if recording a 5.
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Looking back to the tee and house.
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The three-shot second is not that attractive from the tee, but it is disorienting. A ditch protects the left side and two bunkers the right. Once in the fairway, the raised green becomes visible even through the mist.
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On the card #3 looks to be a modest hole, but one can't judge a course by the card. This is one of my favourite holes on the course not only for the teasing drive, but also due to an amateurishly raised green creating a tough target.
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The fourth is a brute! One must challenge severe bunkering to the left of the fairway to earn a view of the green through a gap in the dunes. When this is achieved, a wood or long iron is required for the approach.
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The difficult back right hole location.
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The first par 3 on the course, Tiddler, is an uphill teaser. The green was redesigned about 6 years ago. Apparently, the mound to the right was making it too easy to kick shots in. Consequently, that mound has been shaved back.
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The course now drifts into moorland type of terrain with rushes and ditches heavily featured. It also becomes apparent that Saunton will not be a straight forward out n' back course as holes turn in various directions, not allowing the golfer to become overly comfortable with the wind direction. The tee shot on the 6th is quite demanding due to a ditch bordering the fairway down the right, but the hole is let down by the least interesting green on the course. Fairly long at 400ish yards and to a tighter than readily apparent fairway, the 7th is a great example of an interesting flat hole which creates a welcome balance with holes running through dunes.
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The angle of the green running behind the two right bunkers is evident once beyond the centreline bunker. The twotier effect of the green is also interesting.
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I often say that a links without a daring blind drive over a dune is somehow a less than satisfying experience. Luckily, Saunton provides this thrilling feature in the form of the 8th...which also heralds the start of a tremendous run of short two-shotters. However, the true test of the hole is in the approach as the green is nestled in a horseshoe of dunes/mounding.
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The side finishes very well - in fact the stretch between 7 and 11 is probably my favourite on the course. From the tee #9 is visually confusing with the wind coming off the left. The far bunker is perfectly placed on the outside of the leg to make players take on the left bunkers - thus leaving a terrible angle of approach.
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The green nestles beautifully into the site.
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Its difficult to tell in pix, but the greens have a fair bit of movement to them with little tiers creating quite severe sections; many of the greens feel very modern. I wonder if Cotton added more touches than folks realize or if perhaps when the greens were re-laid in the 80s some contour was added.
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#10 is a classic sucker hole both from the tee and on the approach. It is better to lay back to a comfortable full club distance than it is to have a go at the green 313 yards away. One of the few criticisms of Saunton I can muster is the propensity of flat fairways. This may be a consequence of the WWII military training. Notice the fantastic random feature of sea grass down the left.
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One can see that it is better to approach from the left of the fairway so as to take advantage of the green length.
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Looking back to the tee.
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I expect to be in the minority, but I admire holes which are manufactured from land which is far from ideal. Like St Enodoc's 4th, Saunton's 11th is not a looker, but it provides what the game is about - thinking. The hole is roughly 350 yards with the corner of a field being the prime hazard off the tee. Depending on where the flag is, one can have a bash and try to execute the finicky chip over a bunker or lay back for a full club approach.
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This ends a marvelous four hole stretch which is completely unique. Like the 11th, #s 12, 13 and the tee shot on 14 are also in moorland country more reminiscent of Exmoor than links. Although, I have a lot of time for these holes. The 12th is perhaps the best of this run; a longish two-shotter with nasty rough right and a ditch left. The greens have the curious effect of seeming modern because of their elevated nature and broad contours.
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With only two short holes in the first thirteen, Saunton must be a bit unusual, unfortunately, this isn't a positive feature. Be that as it may, #13 is probably Saunton's best par 3 due to the severity of the green contours.
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#14, or Narrows, is unbelievably difficult if a 4 is the goal. To gain a decent glimpse of the green the tee shot must be played as close to the right fairway bunkering as one dares. There is maybe 10 yards of bail area if one can't reach the green...in the middle of the fairway.
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There is nowhere to lay up on this 432 yard beast.
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Looking back to the tee - Narrows is an apt name.
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The second and final three-shotter, 15 leaves pure linksland for the tee shot. This is a relatively short par 5, but in the winter it still seemed awfully difficult to reach. The real star of this hole is the green; it rests on a small plateau with off-set tiers.
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Another tortuous long par 4, the 16th is probably the best of this sort at Saunton. While the two bunkers to the outside of the leg are very well placed, they aren't terribly attractive. The approach must hold a shelf cut off the left dunes. Yes, its a tough shot, but ever so much fun.
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Another terrific green site and interesting contours.
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The penultimate hole is a long par 3. Not a bad hole at all, but not as good as the other par 3s. The home hole, wonderfully named Isaacs Slopes, apparently after the right dune in the drive zone, is a good one that finishes directly in front of the house, just as a golf course should.
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It had been about 6 years since my last visit to Saunton – too long by anyone’s count for Saunton is more than merely good golf. Not many courses in England are its superior and that is high praise indeed. Three aspects of Saunton East impress me greatly. First, while the threes and fives are not top notch, the variety and quality of the par 4s is outstanding. There isn't a single one of the bunch I could could say is less than good. Additionally, the 16th is an All-England candidate. Second, I rather admire the restraint required to keep most of the tees on lower ground (or level with the green) as hill climbing for a set-piece view can become tiresome. Finally, the variety of greens is unusually good for a links. I find it perplexing that anybody would have anything but praise for the East. 2018
Ciao
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:) :)
Sandy Saunton Saunters Smartly into a Seeker's Sights, Stellar Sean Stylishly Singing its Subtle Stengths
Salute!!
Peter
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Shame about the weather, here's how you could have had it:
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Ulrich
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Oh, my. That is one beguiling golf course, Sean, thanks so much for posting.
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Sean
When Witty and i were there two falls ago they were planning an event to commemorate Westward Ho's 150th
I believe it was to be a match played on a composite course with the linkage being a massive hole/play across the tidal flats.
Did they pull it off? How epic ...shades of Charlton Heston
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Saunton, is always highly rated yet remains largely an unknown quantity by many. I have often thought that it would be on my short list of clubs I would join if I lived in the area. I find the courses wonderful and the club itself outstanding. Thanks Sean. Wonderful stuff as always.
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Thanks for the tour, Sean. No idea how you can get something posted so quickly. I'm in agreement on the stretch from 7-11, with the 11th possibly being my favorite on the course. Will try to post some more photos of it in the next day or so, as it's a really good use of that part of the property.
Ulrich,
Beautiful conditions that day, but did you have to rub it in?
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Thank you, Sean. Very observant, as always. Mark.
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Thanks Sean,
It looks like you had some odd weather, but the quality of Saunton east still shines through.
A pity you didn't play the short par 3 5th as its a particular favourite of mine. The drop off the back is especially lethal for such a short hole and when played downwind its very easy to end up down there.
Other favourites of mine are the 8th where I love the drive over the dune to a big wide and flat fairway, then the approach to a green sitting almost punchbowl like between the other dunes is great use of the land. Also the 16th which is a real tough par 4 making use of some of the more undulating land.
This has to be the first time I've seen a mention of Saunton on here, without someone mentioning it as a possible future Open venue... ::)
Cheers,
James
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The view upon turning the corner of the house must rank as one of the highlights British golf. The 18th green is nestled just below the veranda, the plateau first tee to the middle of the vista and on the far right, the West’s first hole strikes off into the massive (5 square miles) Braunton Burrows dune system. The system is the largest in England and backs three miles of the glorious Saunton Sands beach. Just above the northern end of the beach stands the Saunton Sands Hotel. Even if one has no intention of taking a bed, the hotel is well worth visiting for its celebrated views of the Barnstable Bay which naturally include the burrows and beach.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/BrauntonBurrowsDuneSystem.jpg)
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The original layout, like so many in England, was a Tom Dunn design which Herbert Fowler re-designed in 1919. The product of this work had the great advantage of post-dating the arrival of the Haskell and was thus considered a fine and difficult test from its inception. In 1932 the club hosted its first major event, the British Ladies Championship, won by the formidable Miss Enid Wilson – the middle of three in a row. Since this time many important amateur and professional have taken place at Saunton, including the Brabazon Trophy on two occasions and the British Boys in 1997, the year a teenage Sergio Garcia was crowned champion.
Some twenty or so years after Fowler completed his design the course was used by American tank divisions training for the Normandy landing. As can be imagined, the course didn’t fare very well in these circumstances and in the early 50s, the thoroughly under-rated CK Cotton brought the course back to life and made changes to the start and end of the round. The course we play today is largely the same with the exception of additional bunkering scattered here and there.
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East1.jpg)
Saunton is well known for its bruising start and rightfully so; the first four holes cover not far off 1670 yards. The opener is a straightish banger playing into the wind - most will not feel as though they lost a shot to par when recording a 5.
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From in front of green.
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Looking back to the tee and house.
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East2.jpg)
The second is protected (assuming one can't reach the green) by a sneaky ditch, a particular feature of the East and moreso the West. The green lies in a saddle and is not terribly large!
The three-shot second is not that attractive from the tee, but it is disorienting. A ditch protects the left side and two bunkers the right.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast006_zps000fb7f9.png)
Once in the fairway, the raised green becomes visible even through the mist.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast008_zps652f109e.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East3.jpg)
On the card #3 looks to be a modest hole, but one can't judge a course by the card. This was one of my favourite holes on the course not only for the teasing drive, but also due to amateurishly raised green creating a tough target.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast009_zps1108a7f7.png)
From well beyond the drive zone.
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East4.jpg)
The fourth is a brute! One must challenge severe bunkering to the left of the fairway to earn a view of the green through a gap in the dunes. When this is achieved, a wood or long iron is required for the approach.
(http://]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast012_zpsf2261c86.png)
(http://]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast013_zps87da6d82.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East5.jpg)
The first par 3 on the course, Tiddler, was not in play as it underwent the knife some eight months previously. Apparently, the mound to the right was making it too easy to kick shots in. Consequently, that mound has been shaved back and presumably the green re-laid.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/SAUNTON%20GC%20East%20Course/015.jpg)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East6.jpg)
The course now drifts into moorland type of terrain with rushes and ditches heavily featured. It also becomes apparent that Saunton will not be a straight forward out n' back course as holes turn in various directions, not allowing the golfer to become overly comfortable with the direction of the wind. The tee shot on the 6th is quite demanding due a ditch bordering the fairway down the right, but the hole is let down by the least interesting green on the course.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast017_zps0c9c60d8.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East7.jpg)
Fairly long at 400ish yards and to a tighter than readily apparent fairway, the 7th is a great example of an interesting flat hole which creates a welcome balance with holes running through dunes.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast019_zps75cc6b0a.png)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast020_zps430b6eba.png)
The angle of the green running behind the two right bunkers is evident once beyond the centreline bunker.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast022_zps67c86234.png)[/URL]
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East8.jpg)
I often say that a links without a daring drive over a dune is somehow less than a satisfying experience. Luckily, Saunton provides this thrilling feature.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast023_zps0246f0c7.png)
However, the true test of the hole is in the approach as the green is nestled between two rows of dunes/mounding.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast024_zpsfb5c15b0.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East9.jpg)
The side finishes very well - in fact the stretch between 7 and 11 is probably my favourite on the course. From the tee #9 is visually confusing with the wind coming off the left. The far bunker is perfectly placed on the outside of the leg to make players take on the left bunkers - thus leaving a terrible angle of approach.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast027_zpse53d2585.png)
From the left side - the flag can just be made out.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast028_zps6dc5cf36.png)
There is absolutely no room to come in on this side of the fairway.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast029_zpsbb21e305.png)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/SAUNTON%20GC%20East%20Course/030.jpg)
Its difficult to tell in pix but the greens have a fair bit of movement to them with little tiers creating quite severe sections; many of the greens felt very modern. I wonder if Cotton added more touches than folks realize or if perhaps when the greens were re-laid in the 80s some contour was added.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast030_zps80e0a9c6.png)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast033_zpsd213e17d.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East10.jpg)
#10 is a classic sucker hole both from the tee and on the approach. It is better to lay back to a comfortable full club distance than it is to have a go at the green 313 yards away. One of the few criticisms of Saunton I can muster is the propensity of flat fairways. This may be a consequence of the WWII military training.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast032_zpsa9660500.png)
One can see that it is better to approach from the left of the fairway so as to take advantage of the full length of the green.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast035_zps73a8731c.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East11.jpg)
I expect to be in the minority, but I admire holes which are manufactured from land which is far from ideal. Like St Enodoc's 4th, Saunton's 11th is not a looker, but it provides what golf the game is about - thinking golf. The hole is about 350 yards with the corner of a field being the prime hazard off the tee. Depending on where the flag is, one can have a bash and try to execute the finicky chip over a bunker or lay back for a full club approach. With the hole cut up front on this green which runs away from the fairway, I reckon a safe layup to the left of the fairway does the trick. A layup leaked right off the tee leaves a very dodgy wedge over OOB and a ditch. What a hole!
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast036_zpsacdcad02.png)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast037_zpsa593ec84.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East12.jpg)
Like the 11th, 12, 13 and the tee shot on 14 are also in moorland country more reminiscent of Exmoor than links. Although, I have a lot of time for these holes. The 12th is perhaps the best of this run; a longish two-shotter with nasty roughright and a ditch left.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast038_zps044e7c25.png)
The approach isn't easy to this green with quite a bit of movement.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast039_zpse155622b.png)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast042_zps754030c3.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East13.jpg)
With only two short holes in the first thirteen, Saunton must be a bit unusual, unfortunately, this isn't a positive feature. Be that as it may, #13 is probably Saunton's best par 3 due to the severity of the green contours.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast043_zps263dec1c.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East14.jpg)
#14, or Narrows, is unbelievably difficult if a 4 is the goal. To gain a decent glimpse of the green the tee shot must be played as close to the right fairway bunkering. There is maybe 10 yards of bail area if one can't reach the green...in the middle of the fairway. I didn't get a photo, but in the distance to the right of this hole is huge blow-out. Apparently, it was done on purpose to help spread sand among the burrows.
From well in front of the drive zone.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast046_zps0abb4a7a.png)
Looking back to the tee - Narrows is an apt name.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast047_zps40e50bfb.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East15.jpg)
The par 5 fifteenth, the second and final three-shotter, once again leaves the pure linksland for the tee shot. This is a relatively short par 5, but in the winter it still seemed awfully difficult to reach. The real star of this hole is the green; it rests on a small plateau and once again features little off-set tiers.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast048_zpsc8c81f45.png)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast049_zps8ee77746.png)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast051_zpsc89ebc44.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East16.jpg)
#16 is another tortuous long par 4, but its probably the best of this sort at Saunton. While the two bunkers to the outside of the leg are very well placed, they aren't terribly attractive.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast052_zpsc2b5f9a0.png)
The approach must hold a shelf cut off the left dunes. Yes, its a tough shot, but ever so much fun.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast053_zps500c440b.png)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast054_zps0443ace3.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East17.jpg)
The penultimate hole is a long drop shot par 3. Not a bad hole at all, but not as good as the other par 3s.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast055_zps62c341ea.png)
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/East18.jpg)
The home hole, wonderfully named Isaacs Slopes, apparently after the right dune in the drive zone, is a good one that finishes directly in front of the house, just as a golf course should.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast056_zps17a1cd49.png)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast058_zpsf0f252e9.png)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/Saunton/SauntonEast057_zpsef2bd61a.png)
It had been about 18 years since my last visit to Saunton – too long by anyone’s count for Saunton is more than just good golf. Not many courses in England are its superior and that is high praise indeed. Three aspects of Saunton impressed me greatly. First, while the threes and fives are not top notch, the variety and quality of the par 4s is outstanding. There isn't a single one of the bunch I could could say is less then good. Second, I rather admired the restraint required to keep most of the tees on lower ground (or level with the green) as hill climbing for a set-piece view can become tiresome. Finally, the variety of greens is unusually good for a links. For these reasons, Saunton gets a bump up to 1*.
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Garland - thanks very much for that, it's fascinating to see the overhead juxtaposed with the golfer's perspective, just great. Thanks!
Peter
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Peter,
You are most welcome. Stay tuned for the West course update.
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Guys,
If you use the Google Earth timeline - it shows that there have been a number of changes on the East Course particularly the bunkering. Hole 2 is a new green 30/40 yard beyond the old green.
Cheers
Ben
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Ulrich
To the contrary, we had a lovely day for golf; about 12 degrees, light wind and no sun - thats heaven.
Brian
Yes, we played the West in severe fog the next day. I don't think it quite hangs with the East, mainly because the greens on the East are more interesting, but also because I really liked the flat holes. Strangely, I think the West has just as many really good holes as the East.
Boony
It was a shame to miss the fifth, but I have vivid memories of the hole. Yes, the 8th is good without being one of the top holes on the course. Fix the bunkering and 16 is all world!
Garland - cheers.
Others - cheers.
Ciao
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Ben,
I'm sure the first time I played Saunton, the 2nd was a long par 4 rather than the par 5 it is now and when we were there several years ago? That was a real tough opening with 1, 2 and 4 all tough long par 4s!
Cheers,
James
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Boony
I don't think so. When I first saw Saunton - about 20 years ago - the 2nd was a par 5. In Steel's book it is listed as a par 5 and that is 20 years ago. I seem to recall reading that the par of the course went up (with added yardage) in the 50s (when it was worked on by Cotton?). I seem to recall the 1st being a par 4 from the backs and a par 5 from the daily tee when I first played the course circa 1990 - or maybe the other way around.
Ciao
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Sean,
Looks like it depends on the tees and one of those good old quirky pars that doesn't listen to the yardage...
My yardage book from last time I was there shows the old 2nd as well as the new as an insert. The old was a 5 from the blues at 476 and whites at 445 while the yellows was a 4 at 426. Go figure? ;)
For Saunton as a "Championship" test, I would say a couple of par 4s at 478 and 476 to start would be a tougher test than a 478 par 4 then a "breather" par 5 be it 476 or 526? Notwithstanding discussions about the irrelevance of par obviously... ::)
Cheers,
James
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Boony
What does your course planner say about #1?
Ciao
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Sean,
Its all par 4, going 478 from the blues (2 yards less than the 2nd which used to be a 5?), 470 white and then 393 yellow. I've never played it from any other tee than the back one, even if the markers have been yellow.
Cheers,
James
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Indeed the new 2cnd green was being constructed back and to the left of the original when I played there in 2006. The original was still in play and even a short knocker like me was close to the green in 2 shots. I believe they were discussing moving the 18th green back and left also; is that the old 18 green seen in the photo short and to the right? There was also something being done to a bunker in front of the 15th green; perhaps it was it a central bunker that was moved?
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I have read this thread a few times since playing the course.
Frankly I don't get it. It seems the biggest praise the course gets is for having lots of long par fours. Another noticeable aspect is that a good number of the greens are raised up from the fairway for the approach. Is the whole point of saying this course is good is because it is hard?
It certainly is not that entertaining, interesting, or memorable. Sean himself bemoans the flat fairways in his commentary. It may have the shortest green to tee walks of any course I've played, but that does not make a great course. Furthermore, futile searching for balls is a major feature. I played 16 links in south Wales and southwest England, and this is the least links like of all of them. So what gives? What am I missing?
Sean dis'es the par threes in his review. But the first two par threes are two of the most memorable holes on the course. What's wrong with the par threes?
I know several of us prefer the west course to the east, but Tom persists in rating the east higher than the west. Why?
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GJ
I am surprised that you couldn't see the quality of 3, 5, 8, 9, 10 & 11 for starters. Links not links? So?
For me the West has just as many really good holes as the East, but say the "worst" six are not the quality of the East "worst" six.
Its fine if you aren't impressed...its your money and time, but you will be hard pressed to find many who will agree with your thoughts concerning the East.
Ciao
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I've always thoroughly enjoyed the East. Mostly I enjoyed the approaches to the greens which often required a great deal of thought, often a case of trying to use a slope to check the ball or throw it towards the target. The flatter more marshy areas are reminiscent of RND's.
I have an idea that many of the changes made a few years ago were made by a Guy called Bob Knott who was a prominent county player of the area.
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GJ
you will be hard pressed to find many who will agree with your thoughts concerning the East. For me, Saunton East is about as close as it gets to great without being great. That said, there are a lot of courses like this in GB&I...missing that whatever it is to get them over the hump.
Ciao
So I've played the West twice and the East once. Whilst I prefer the former I wasn't that excited about either. That said I am increasingly reluctant to make my mind up too Quickly (Mea Culpa - I was wrong re Porthcawl). I've noticed on this and other threads that whilst they are both acknowledged as fine courses, many comments include a note of puzzlement as to why they aren't better loved?
I have also self diagnosed a quirky, little understood medical condition that I have named Flat Earth Golf Syndrome or FEGS for short. Curiously whilst walking a golf course I have marked tendency to become ill at ease if the playing ground seems unaturally flat. Eminent Psychologists I have shared pint with say, "...but surely humps hollows and blindness should be what causes concern and agitation in the player"? I am therefore at something of a loss but I have noticed FEGS being at the most acute where interesting dunesland and flat fairways lie side by side. Therefore inland FEGS is rarely a problem. My worst attacks so far were at Birkdale and The European Club, but there were definite stirrings at Saunton.
PS Garland is right about the rough. St Enedoc is the same. It can't just be high rainfall that accounts for the lack of Fescue and the invasion of all manner of weeds. I have another syndrome relating to this......
Having said all that there is enough about the courses to draw me back and believe it can't be long before it becomes a central contender for a spring tour and a possible reassessment.
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"not only for the teasing drive, but also due to amateurishly raised green creating a tough target"
is what you have to say about three, Sean. What I see is a fairway that narrows forcing the average player to lay up off the tee. Is that a teasing drive? Other than being "amateurish", I don't find anything above average about the green. So yes, I don't see much of interest about three.
It's the only hole that is not a "brute" in the first four. Is that what's appealing?
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"not only for the teasing drive, but also due to amateurishly raised green creating a tough target"
is what you have to say about three, Sean. What I see is a fairway that narrows forcing the average player to lay up off the tee. Is that a teasing drive? Other than being "amateurish", I don't find anything above average about the green. So yes, I don't see much of interest about three.
It's the only hole that is not a "brute" in the first four. Is that what's appealing?
Shortish par 4, long drive is a big plus because the green is a difficult target because its raised and not terribly large...but the fairway narrows the deeper the drive. Simple, to the point, good architecture...akin to fine steak n' chips. I am sure you eat there where you come from ;)
Anyhow, if you see B&NC as better than Saunton, then we don't have much to discuss. Good thing this isn't a union negotiation.
Ciao
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"not only for the teasing drive, but also due to amateurishly raised green creating a tough target"
is what you have to say about three, Sean. What I see is a fairway that narrows forcing the average player to lay up off the tee. Is that a teasing drive? Other than being "amateurish", I don't find anything above average about the green. So yes, I don't see much of interest about three.
It's the only hole that is not a "brute" in the first four. Is that what's appealing?
Shortish par 4, long drive is a big plus because the green is a difficult target because its raised and not terribly large...but the fairway narrows the deeper the drive. Simple, to the point, good architecture...akin to fine steak n' chips. I am sure you eat there where you come from ;)
Anyhow, if you see B&NC as better than Saunton, then we don't have much to discuss. Good thing this isn't a union negotiation.
Ciao
It seems to me that good architecture uses something beside ball gobbling rough to enhance the architecture of a hole. Ball gobbling rough is usually considered bad architecture. The dunes are there. The fairway could be much wider with difficulty coming from having fairway extend into the dunes, and bunkers in the face of the dunes. You go to a golf course to play golf, not to spend all your time tromping around just off fairway looking for golf balls.
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"not only for the teasing drive, but also due to amateurishly raised green creating a tough target"
is what you have to say about three, Sean. What I see is a fairway that narrows forcing the average player to lay up off the tee. Is that a teasing drive? Other than being "amateurish", I don't find anything above average about the green. So yes, I don't see much of interest about three.
It's the only hole that is not a "brute" in the first four. Is that what's appealing?
Shortish par 4, long drive is a big plus because the green is a difficult target because its raised and not terribly large...but the fairway narrows the deeper the drive. Simple, to the point, good architecture...akin to fine steak n' chips. I am sure you eat there where you come from ;)
Anyhow, if you see B&NC as better than Saunton, then we don't have much to discuss. Good thing this isn't a union negotiation.
Ciao
It seems to me that good architecture uses something beside ball gobbling rough to enhance the architecture of a hole. Ball gobbling rough is usually considered bad architecture. The dunes are there. The fairway could be much wider with difficulty coming from having fairway extend into the dunes, and bunkers in the face of the dunes. You go to a golf course to play golf, not to spend all your time tromping around just off fairway looking for golf balls.
GJ
Well, ya got me there. It seems practically everywhere grows rough these days. I know part of the reason for this is poor winter weather, cost to cut the rough and crazy rules about stupid protected plants or birds or toads or ancient solidified shit (Saunton has some restrictions on what they can do)...its endless what the English will do in the name of the environment...but talk about building homes all over the place and its a different matter...build it and they will come...the island is sinking........ :o Still, I think clubs can do better...even B&NC. Even with bad rough, I don't believe the architecture at B&NC compares very well to SE. That said, I can understand if wide open golf is important to golfers, but that sort of design supported by the right maintenance is quite rare in my experience...probably because its costly if the weather doesn't cooperate. Most British clubs aren't bloated with cash...and many of the ones that are, are championship links so they have different reasons for stupid rough. Hence, for many places, the best time to play links golf is on a fine winter's day.
Ciao
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Watch your language! I thought ch+^$!@!*&%p was a four letter word around here when applied to links or course as a modifier.
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I don't think I'd ever want to play Saunton in May or June. My understanding is that Saunton are incredibly restricted with what they can do to the rough and that it is just soul destroying, ball gobbling crap at times. Reading between the lines on their website, I think Saunton would like to cut it back quite a bit more than they can:
"Saunton Golf Course is situated on Braunton Burrows, a sand dune system which is the largest in England and vitally important for its plants and animals. In recognition of this the Burrows, and hence Saunton Golf Course, have been designated as an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI), a Special Area of Conservation (SAC) and a Unesco Biosphere Reserve.
The effect of this is that Saunton has to obtain consent from English Nature whenever we wish to carry out any significant works on the courses, which could be in danger of damaging the Burrows.We have had to agree a Course Management Plan with English Nature, which dictates exactly how we manage the land."
I've only been there in September and October and the rough was fine, as I imagine it is from late August to early April most years.
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Thanks Ed, that's very interesting.
Did not the course predate all the environmental regs?
Apparently if they are under control of such regs then they aren't grandfathered in with their practices like they would be in the U.S. Not true?
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This is England and the EU - nothing takes precedence over environmental regs. There are rare breeds of snail at risk here!
Braunton Burrows is just about the most regulated and controlled dune system in the UK. Saunton don't own the land for the course and I believe the lease comes with all sorts of conditions as to what they can't do, and what they have to do to maintain the site.
The irony in all this of course is that mother nature doesn't decide what happens to the Burrows, English Nature does. Apparently "Scrub invasion is managed to maintain a state of semi-equilibrium and prevent succession to a climax community". Now I'm not sure exactly what that means but it sure as hell doesn't mean let nature take its course!
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I dumbly overlooked that probably most (and as you say specifically Saunton) links courses are on common ground and not owned by the clubs. That makes a huge difference.
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No matter whether the maintenance problems are under their control or not. The golf holes lack good architecture. Therefore, it seems to me to be a mistake to rate them high. Alister MacKenzie in The Spirit of St. Andrews often bemoans the ruination of golf courses by flat ground. I don't see sympathy as a legitimate rating raiser.
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I had the pleasure of playing 18-holes over both the East and West courses at Saunton recently. Both courses were as splendid as ever.
One notable change being undertaken is on the mid-length par-4 11th hole on the East, which is being modified a bit.
Two pot bunkers are in the process of being built on the left side of the fairway directly opposite the angular corner of the ditch, thus making a very tight avenue between the ditch and the new bunkers to hit through. Do you take tight avenue on? Do you try to fly it? Or do you lay-up? Nice strategic questions/puzzle to solve.
In addition, the area to the back-right of the green is being adjusted and the ditch to the right side of the green is being cleared out, re-sloped and also extended a few yards around the back-right edge of the green.
Atb
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While I liked a number of holes, I was equally underwhelmed at times too.
Club seem to be obsessed with being hard over everything else.
The reeds growing on the edge of many fairways was the most perplexing of these decisions. [/size]The arbitrary nature of this penalty was beyond me.
There were certainly some great green sites, but they couldn't overcome so many instances where there was no architectural attempt to overcome lesser land.
West had some great bits btw - little more fun to play
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I'm with Garland and Ian on this one.
Was quite disappointed with Saunton East, expecting much more.
Too much blind tee shots, too little variety.
Really came away thinking how much better the course could be if it was rerouted and rebuild by one of the top archies in this day and age....
Funny enough I did not mind the flatness of the property, I thought it would be a great landscape to replicate on a flat property where you had a good budget to do earth moving
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While I liked a number of holes, I was equally underwhelmed at times too.
Club seem to be obsessed with being hard over everything else.
The reeds growing on the edge of many fairways was the most perplexing of these decisions.
The arbitrary nature of this penalty was beyond me.
There were certainly some great green sites, but they couldn't overcome so many instances where there was no architectural attempt to overcome lesser land.
West had some great bits btw - little more fun to play
Ian
Shouldn't golf be arbitrary, particularly links golf?
Miss the fairway, you might have a clear shot to the green, you might not - personally this is preferable to me than uniform-length rough everywhere and was certainly well received at Pinehurst no2
Specifically, what architectural attempts would you make to overcome what you consider lesser land?
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Golf in England is in great shape when folks express disappointment for a course 99% of golfers would give their left nut to play weekly 8) . Perhaps folks should step back and take things in perspective. How anybody could say Saunton's par 4s aren't a great bunch is something which I find puzzling.
Ciao
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I do wonder how someone can complain about too much flatness and at the same time complain about too many blind shots. If a course is flat then it cannot be also blind. From a golfing point of view TOC is far from flat though many on here have judged it too be just that, flat. IMO a courses flatness is judged by the number of level lies that you have on the round. My only real quibble with Royal Birkdale is that it is a flat playing course though it does make up for this in the variety of shot making challenge it sets. TOC has not only this but also a variety of challenge in the stance/lies it provides to the golfer. This is Dornoch's greatest asset and Nairn's as well.
I would suggest that whilst the contours at Sauton are not large of scale they offer a subtle challenge. Are not the large dunes of Cruden, Trump or Doonbeg just golfing bling? What makes these courses great or not are the contours in the field of play.
Jon
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I do wonder how someone can complain about too much flatness and at the same time complain about too many blind shots. If a course is flat then it cannot be also blind.
Jon
Jon,
The lies on the fairways were very often quite flat.
The tee shots were often blind because a hill was blocking the view of the fairway.
So I do not see why you could not have a course with flat fairways with blind tee shots.....
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Well as a past member of 20 years or so and a very regular player of both courses at Saunton, I struggle to recognise the golf course I know so well from the cursory "flat lies and blind tee shots".
When I read that the Saunton links could be supposedly improved on a flat landscape with a significant earth moving budget I assume that is what passes for humour, please assure me that this comment is a joke.
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Well as a past member of 20 years or so and a very regular player of both courses at Saunton, I struggle to recognise the golf course I know so well from the cursory "flat lies and blind tee shots".
When I read that the Saunton links could be supposedly improved on a flat landscape with a significant earth moving budget I assume that is what passes for humour, please assure me that this comment is a joke.
Mike sorry for the confusion and my obviously unclear writing.
What I meant is that:
- first the landforms of Saunton east could more easily be recreated on a flat piece of land, if one could move enough dirt, rather than say sites like Cruden Bay or Royal Hague
- second it would be an interesting exercise to see if you could route a new 18 holes golf course better through the landforms than the existing golf course
As to the blind tee shots, I will go back to my photo's and count them, it made enough of an impression to stick in my mind, but maybe I am wrong......
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I would never put Saunton in the 'blind' category. It is pretty much all in front of you.
Good vision of the fairway at every hole except 8 and 16, you could make a case that downwind at 18 someone might chop a bit off the right mound. The par threes are all very visible. I have not seen the new 2nd green but every other green is visible, if you hit your tee shot on the fairway. At 8 and 9 there are places where you can't see the green from, possibly if you get too close too the 10th.
As a links course I would say it ticks a lot of modern boxes. I think it could be vastly improved with a bit of light movement in the fairways, they did it at Troon on 15 and it looks great from the pictures. That aside Saunton fits the purpose and to most people it is the best course in the South West.
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... IMO a courses flatness is judged by the number of level lies that you have on the round....
That would be all of the lies in the fairway except perhaps on 18.
The only blind shots that I know of are on 8 and 16, and possibly 18 if you don't drive far enough to have a view from beyond the dogleg.
Sean,
It seems to me that those that would give part of their anatomy to play there often, would soon be wishing they had that part of their anatomy back.
I found the course to be boring.
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Garland,
whilst it does not have large movement there is plenty of low key movement giving many subtle challenges. From recollection it is certainly not the tee flat expanse that you paint.
I concur on the blind shots. But given that it is a much talked about course and so many seek out its challenge I suspect it is you that do not understand its charm. A good thing I suspect as if we all agreed on everything this board would be very boring ;D
Jon
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What was Saunton like as laid out by Herbert Fowler, ie before the WWII army/tank etc exercises?
There are a few photos and words on the clubs website history page, however, does anyone have any maps etc of what the original Fowler course(s) were like?
Atb
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I have a map of Old Saunton. From memory there were two holes left of the clubhouse (as you look at 18). The first was a long short hole, I think back down 18. I am away at the moment so can't look. I think the West course was completely rebuilt, my great uncle Alfie Reed did some work on it, perhaps irrigation. I also have some pictures of the 1932 Ladies Amateur and I don't recognise the holes. There is a picture in Sauntpn's history book of the old first.
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Shouldn't golf be arbitrary, particularly links golf?
Yes, but isn't the adjacent fescue an even better answer. You can usually find the ball, identify it and potential play the ball. Even heather is better than dense clumps of reeds
I've played around around 75 courses in the UK, this was unique to this course and in my opinion took away from the course and architecture
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Ian,
Are you talking about the "reeds" that would be the same as the sea rushes on Royal North Devon?
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I have a map of Old Saunton. From memory there were two holes left of the clubhouse (as you look at 18). The first was a long short hole, I think back down 18. I am away at the moment so can't look. I think the West course was completely rebuilt, my great uncle Alfie Reed did some work on it, perhaps irrigation. I also have some pictures of the 1932 Ladies Amateur and I don't recognise the holes. There is a picture in Sauntpn's history book of the old first.
Thanks for this insight Adrian.
There are two photos on the clubs website that got me thinking about previous, even pre-Fowler, routings. These ones -
(http://www.sauntongolf.co.uk/images/thumbs/slideshow/saunton/580x383/2-12-17-6/1/129_372.jpg)
With the caption "The 1st hole - early 1920's"
Notice how play is from the right (east) along a wall. This wall would appear to be alongside the housing/buildings that are now a couple of hundred yards right of the course. The present clubhouse (site of) is not visible so the clubhouse must then have been an older version located nearer the village (ie to the right of the current East 16 fairway) - for a close up see - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.1164676,-4.2039582,144m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.1164676,-4.2039582,144m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en)
and
(http://www.sauntongolf.co.uk/images/thumbs/slideshow/saunton/566x360/0-0-0-0/1/129_374.jpg)
With the caption "Exhibition match on the old 18th green. Now the green on short practice ground." (which it indeed pretty much still is).
Note how play would appear to be from the left (southwest) with the clubhouse on it's current site. I wonder if this exhibition was part of a event to mark the opening of the new clubhouse?
To view some yee olde course maps, pre and post Fowler, would be most interesting.
For a few more olde photos and a potted club history see - http://www.sauntongolf.co.uk/history_of_the_club (http://www.sauntongolf.co.uk/history_of_the_club)
atb
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That first pic was the Old 1st, but became the new 18th in a later routing when they got the present clubhouse (2nd pic). When they got the clubhouse, the new first was 235 yards I think played from in front the clubhouse back down 18 (about where the fairway starts now). I am pretty sure my great uncle said the original West course was better or they (members) had found great holes in the dunes to the left, unfortunately it was 30 years ago, but the essence of what he said was that there was a better course inside those dunes.
There's a 7250 combo that could be used for 'the Open' but obviously Saunton has other logistical problems beyond the course itself.
1, 2, 3 as they are then 6 and 7 of the West, then a long short hole back into the 15th green of the West then no 5 of the West, then 4 of the East (as the 8th) and a 480 yard 6th of the East (as the 9th). 7 became 10 but another 480 yarder...then the rest pretty much as they are. It loses the tiddler and the loop of 8, 9 and 10 but it frees things up for spectators, stands etc, plus adds that 'important' 7250 mandatory length.
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Thanks for the clarifications and further insights Adrian.
The 'Open' composite course is most interesting. Lots of the best holes, like the terrific '7th' on the West included, and playing the '15th' West as a long par-3 but played from a tee somewhere near the green of the '7th' West is most intriguing. It would be a pretty tough hole with that raised green site.
atb
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I've been down to Saunton twice in the last few months - once in August and again last week. I managed to play a round on both the East and West in August and 2 on the East, with 1 on the West in late October. I hadn't played the East for some years and will admit that my recollection was of it being hard, stern, and not particularly fun - I remember feeling slightly let down. Having played it 3 times in the last few months, with the course playing firm and the rough in no way unfair I must admit that I am now converted into a huge fan. The green sites are amongst the best as a set of any course I've ever played - 5, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 15 and 16 are simply fantastic. And those bunkers are proper hazards - open up the face and try and get it out was normally my thought. Conversely, I found my opinion of the West going down slightly and I wanted to be on the East when I was on the West.
I would urge anyone to visit this wonderful course around late summer / autumn as it is real high quality golf. Stupidly cheap if you play at the right time too. I'd even say that, given 10 rounds to split between St.Enodoc and Saunto East, I'd go 5:5.
A few additional photos to Sean's tour:
The wonderful 130 yard 5th. Everything is telling you to not be short off the tee:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1080.jpg)
But you actually are much better off there than slightly long as you'll roll 30 yards down the steep bank.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1082.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1083.jpg)
The 11th with the new bunkers on the corner of the dog leg tightening the drive:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1087.jpg)
From the corner of the wall this is a scary second as the ditch is hard to the green side and snaking round the back right.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1088.jpg)
From 5 yards right where my ball finished up on this occasion - this is a tough shot!
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1089.jpg)
From the center of the fairway
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1090.jpg)
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Thanks for this update Ed. The photos of the revised 11th are interesting for when I last played the East they were in the middle of undertaking the work.
As to the comparison with StE, well although Saunton doesn't have the inherent photogenic-ness that StE has it fortunately also doesn't have that bloody hill to climb!
Atb
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I stopped by Saunton a few weeks back...in glorious weather. I must say, the East is as tough as ever! Last time the 5th wasn't in play...what a hole. See the significantly updated tour on page 1.
www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51415.0.html
Previous Stops:
Saunton West
www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66490.msg1587657.html#msg1587657
Aberdovey
www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,43564.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,43564.0.html)
Westward Ho!
www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66480.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66480.0.html)
Planned Stops
Barton on Sea
Isle of Purbeck
Ciao
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The East is imo simply a super course. From the tee it's maybe a bit less demanding than the West but it has some heavily rolling putting surfaces that perhaps make up for it. Being routed in a non out-n-back fashion, as is the West too, means that the wind direction changes more with the holes than do some other links.
There have been numerous changes to the East since it first came into being. To find out more how the East has evolved over the decades there is in the Clubhouse an A3 size book showing in great detail the changes to the East course which contains overheads and aerial photos of the the whole area used during WWII. All sorts of WWII training areas were included such as flame thrower ranges, hedgehog areas etc. Indeed the area used seems to have covered the whole of Saunton Burrows not just the area now occupied by the East and West courses. If you're in the Clubhouse enquire after the book, which is by MacKenzie and Ebert, as it contains quite a bit of information about Saunton generally including all the alterations that have happened on the East course over the decades plus details about Herbert Fowler, club/course timelines etc.
atb
Later edit - a recent photo taken from behind the 18th East green
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIoVbf6WsAEOBd4?format=jpg&name=small)
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Here is a link (from within the SGC website) detailing the changes made particularly to the East course during it’s history and also showing the various WWII activities all as shown in the M&E book mentioned above.
Very comprehensive and well worth a look - https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/60040459/saunton-historic-report-2017-07 (https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/60040459/saunton-historic-report-2017-07)
Atb
Edit - old photos from the original pre-WW2 East course later added.
The exact location in the first photo is unclear. Wonderful view of the general aspect and terrain though.
The second photo is of the then 18th green - the hole played in from the right. This green is now in approx the same location as the current short-game practice area
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9xqBSmWkAAqFYN.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8kO78AWsAAawvK.jpg)