Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Sean_A on January 15, 2012, 05:19:19 AM

Title: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: Boony Is Right
Post by: Sean_A on January 15, 2012, 05:19:19 AM
Sherwood Forest, famous for being the mythological home of the gallant outlaw Robin Hood, is far smaller than in ancient times. Today, the 1000 acre forest is hemmed in by Mansfield to the west and Worksop to the north.  The village of Edwinstowe is completely surrounded by the Royal Forest and nearby is the famous 800(ish) year old Major Oak; Robin Hood and his Merry Men’s shelter from the elements and Machiavellian Sheriff of Nottingham. 

Tucked between the forest and Mansfield is a delightful patch of heathland given over to golf in 1912 by the 6th Duke of Portland. Despite the abundantly fanciful images evoked by the name Sherwood Forest, it is inconceivable that any other name would due. It would seem HS Colt contributed with advice to an already existing course the club built when it moved to the Duke’s land and that Braid’s substantial work was completed by the green staff in 1927.  Much of the work centred on lengthening the course and the bunker work associated with such changes, but most of the previously exciting greens remained in tact. The result is nothing short of delightful.  Mind you, at 6300 yards from the daily tees and with five par 4s measuring over 400 yards Sherwood Forest is tough enough to test a high standard of golfer.  Indeed, the club hosted Regional Open Qualifying from 2002 through 2007.  I believe Regional Qualifying will return to Sherwood Forest in 2014.  This honour has nudged the club into making some changes.  There are several bunkers being worked on, some of which I believe are new.  Interestingly, and this is only from memory, the club seems to have decided to toughen up the tee shots for numbers 12-14 (already difficult holes!) by placing bunkers in the landing zones.   I think if work is going to be done, this is the best way to approach it.  Too often clubs will increase the challenge of the breather holes, thus disrupting the rhythm of the design.   

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/883/42078046995_142935d061_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/883/42078046995_142935d061_b.jpg)

Sherwood's first seven holes are essentially as Colt left them, but these holes may precede the great man. Whomever  is responsible did a good job.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/875/42925292232_25facb35ba_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/875/42925292232_25facb35ba_b.jpg)

The course quickly swings into shape with a cracking two-shotter which features beautifully placed bunkers.  In general, the fairway bunkering is outstanding.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1792/42925292122_70d0ea655d_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1792/42925292122_70d0ea655d_b.jpg)

The approach.  Notice the large berm behind the green.  This is very reminiscent of Camberley Heath.  Although the 6th runs behind this green I am not sure why the berm was utilized.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1777/42974728241_ac10be24fc_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1777/42974728241_ac10be24fc_b.jpg)

There are several blind drives, the first of which comes at the third.  The bunkers shown below cut-off the fairway at a very reachable distance so it is best to lay-up. 
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1820/42974728141_fa4e2e5e52_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1820/42974728141_fa4e2e5e52_b.jpg)

#4 is a majestic par 3.  While the house isn't a great backdrop, one can easily imagine that from inside there are outstanding views of #s 1 & 5 going out and #s 4 & 18 coming in.  However, it is the small details which can separate the very good from great courses.  In the photo below, the tee blocking the view of the left bunker detracts from the balance of the set piece.   
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1824/42974728051_53ec7bda65_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1824/42974728051_53ec7bda65_b.jpg)

A closer look at the expert shaping.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1798/28105994027_1f49dfd878_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1798/28105994027_1f49dfd878_b.jpg)

The boozers loop completed; the fifth is the first of two fine reachable three-shotters which play over/through valleys.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1767/28105993927_d68e061dd1_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1767/28105993927_d68e061dd1_b.jpg)

Fairway bunkering once again plays a major role in the decision-making process.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1777/42974727921_803a45cc6b_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1777/42974727921_803a45cc6b_b.jpg)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1796/42974727981_5ebc34dcb9_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1796/42974727981_5ebc34dcb9_b.jpg)

#6 is a tough blind tee shot par 4 with its fairway narrowed by very well placed right hand bunkers. 

Yet another stunning set piece, the par 3 seventh features two greens.  I suspect the left-hand green is original and the right acts as a temporary. 
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1769/28105993857_40433e259f_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1769/28105993857_40433e259f_b.jpg)

The beautiful golf continues with #8, the second par 5.  Braid changed the line and pushed this green much further left to take full advantage of the valley.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1810/42974727701_d93ae6d1c9_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1810/42974727701_d93ae6d1c9_b.jpg)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1772/42974727781_08cfc89787_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1772/42974727781_08cfc89787_b.jpg)

The side ends with the first hole of Sherwood's murderer's row.  One must get his score on the opening eight holes for all the par 4s between 9 and 14 are 400 plus yards.   The ninth's beauty belies its difficulty.  At 453 yards it is the longest of these stretch two-shotters.  The drive is blind, has heather threatening the right side and a bunker left.  While the course features some terrific fairway bunkering, the greenside bunkering is a bit of a let-down.  Almost without exception left and right is on the menu.   
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1818/42925291642_295527869b_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1818/42925291642_295527869b_b.jpg)

In the Colt influenced rendition of the course, the homeward nine had four sub 300 yard holes and a monster par 5.  Braid used existing fairway corridors to create the challenge which exists today.  The short 10th offers some respite (perhaps too early?) from the big hitting.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1804/42925291492_a6fcdaefca_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1804/42925291492_a6fcdaefca_b.jpg)

The course continues its final stint of the eastward march on #11; another exquisite hole of simple allure.  I think the right green-side bunker had its profile raised for better visibility.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1762/28105993647_43a428745c_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1762/28105993647_43a428745c_b.jpg)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1834/28105993677_c3da45291d_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1834/28105993677_c3da45291d_b.jpg)

The long road home begins on the 12th.  The course is far less attractive heading in and the wind is no longer friendly.  It is also the 12th which signals the start of serious new bunker work.  From the daily tee, a freshly built large bunker covering the left half of the fairway is blind - as is the landing zone.  Below is the approach.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1763/42974727601_57ee6683da_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1763/42974727601_57ee6683da_b.jpg)

It is very unfortunate that five of the last six holes head straight into the winter sun.  This drastically effects the enjoyment, but it is also the case that the holes are not nearly as compelling as found earlier.  The 13th is a flat par 4 bending around trees to the left with a new bunker blocking the safe play on the right.  #14 slides left as well and has new bunkers protecting the inside of the leg.  The remaining four holes are a great deal easier than the previous four. The final par 3 is quite good with the expectant heavy bunker protection. 

#16, while not up to the standard of the front nine par 5s, requires sound shot-making to earn a birdie due to a profuse number of bunkers.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1767/42974727461_5f75f62c2f_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1767/42974727461_5f75f62c2f_b.jpg)

#17 is a moderate length par 4 with a large bunker pinching play toward the trees right.  A lay-up is the obvious play - not one of my favourite holes.  Thankfully, other than sun issues, the home hole is very good.  It is feasible that flat bellies could reach this green, but only in favourable conditions.  A large valley bisects the hole and makes the golfer choose between a lay-up, or risking a blind approach from the valley floor if going for the far side. 

Despite the few shortcomings of Sherwood Forest such as the green-side bunkering, winter sun problems and perhaps the lack of a true drivable par 4,  there is a lot to admire...especially the fantastic front 9.  The condition of the course is very good and the greens seemed to have improved over last year. While I can't point to any exceptional hole, the whole is far greater than the individual parts of Sherwood.  There is an undeniable grandeur to many of the holes which should slap a smile to any golfer's face.  The par 5s as a set are good and as a balance to the many long par 4s don't in any way create an added burden for the golfer.  The threes are earnest, if not exceptional, and the fours demonstrate good variety. Finally, and this is something which is quite important to the visiting golfer, though often not mentioned, the club is very friendly.   This area of Nottinghamshire is well blessed with the very solid Coxmoor and striking Notts just the other end of Mansfield - all the more reason to stop by for a few days of golf.  2012

Previous stops on the Tour:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32655.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32655.0.html)  Woking

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32228.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32228.0.html)  Huntercombe

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50427.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50427.0.html)  Berkhamsted

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,46538.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,46538.0.html)  Coxmoor

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37725.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37725.0.html)  Temple

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38973.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38973.0.html)  Little Aston

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30965.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30965.0.html)  Beau Desert

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33988.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33988.0.html)  Notts

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50088.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50088.0.html)  The Old Course

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50086.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50086.0.html)  The New Course

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50078.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50078.0.html)  The Castle Course

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30926.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30926.0.html)  Kington

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37526.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37526.0.html)   Harborne

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49998.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49998.0.html)   Worcester G&CC


Next scheduled stop:

Saunton East & West
   


Ciao
Title: Re: Sherwood Forest GC
Post by: Scott Warren on January 15, 2012, 06:01:08 AM
Have you and Boony taken us around this one before? Looks familiar. Looks good.
Title: Re: Sherwood Forest GC
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on January 15, 2012, 06:49:26 AM
As always, Sean, your photography brings out all the positives, so difficult to do in winter. Thank you.
Title: Re: Sherwood Forest GC
Post by: Niall C on January 15, 2012, 07:14:53 AM
Scott

I was thinking the same thing as the first par 3 looks very familiar for some reason. In any case Sean, thanks for posting. The course looks good fun with a good degree of challenge to make it so.

Niall
Title: Re: Sherwood Forest GC
Post by: Neil White on January 15, 2012, 07:16:11 AM
Hi Sean,

Great photos - looks as though you picked a lovely winters day to play........

Sherwood Forest is the only one of the three, to include Notts and Coxmoor, that I have yet to play and seeing it as it is, even in winter makes me even more keen to get up there for a game.  :)

Cheers,

Neil.



Title: Re: Sherwood Forest GC: Boony Was Right
Post by: Ronald Montesano on January 15, 2012, 07:39:32 AM
I like the use of the valley on #9 better than on either of the par five holes that precede it.

I'd love to see a wider photo of the twin greens on the par three 7th. I've seen separate greens on par four holes, one short, one deep, but nothing so proximate.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Robin_Hiseman on January 16, 2012, 05:29:16 AM
Sean

Any idea who is responsible for the bunker work?

Nice tour and a nice looking course.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Mark Pearce on January 16, 2012, 05:37:07 AM
It looks rather more interesting than I had expected.  I must play more golf in the Midlands.

Until this thread this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/golfer-sues-players-over-cheating-claim-1369853.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/golfer-sues-players-over-cheating-claim-1369853.html) is what I had known Sherwood Forest for.  I recall this story being reported in the national TV news too, at the time!
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Mark Chaplin on January 16, 2012, 05:53:48 AM
Mark - I've been involved in something similar and although the standard of proof was the balance of probabilities, it is a serious matter and the committee should go close to beyond all reasonable doubt. I'm sure that's why they found the matter not proven. The member employing a QC over a multiple day libel trial then ended up with this;

AN AMATEUR golfer faces a legal bill of up to £250,000 after a jury yesterday ruled that he had not been libelled by two fellow players who accused him of cheating.

John Buckingham, 57, was attempting to sue two members of Sherwood Forest Golf Club in Nottinghamshire over allegations that during a competition in 1990 he twice secretly dropped new balls to replace ones lost, while on another hole he kicked his ball to a more favourable lie.

As the jury delivered its verdict at Nottingham County Court, Reginald Dove, 50, and Graham Rusk, 34, smiled and winked at friends and family in the packed public gallery.

The forewoman then concluded the 10-day hearing by reading from a note passed to the judge: 'We would like you to know that we are concerned our decision might be perceived as proof that Mr Buckingham definitely cheated. This is not necessarily the view of the whole jury. But as reflected in our verdict, we did not feel that Mr Rusk or Mr Dove acted maliciously.'
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: John Mayhugh on January 16, 2012, 08:37:05 AM
Thanks for the tour, Sean.  Not sure I've seen the term boozer's loop before, but it's worth keeping.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Jud_T on January 16, 2012, 09:12:31 AM
Thanks Sean.  I actually used to work with the son of the Sheriff of Nottingham.  Quite a character with a touch of the Robber Baron in his blood as I recall.  Pretty good resume for a Euro Bond trader....
Title: Re: Sherwood Forest GC
Post by: Jon Wiggett on January 16, 2012, 12:34:34 PM
Scott

I was thinking the same thing as the first par 3 looks very familiar for some reason. In any case Sean, thanks for posting. The course looks good fun with a good degree of challenge to make it so.

Niall

There was a thread recently about the removal of gorse and trees featuring photos of this hole.

Jon
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Lance Rieber on January 16, 2012, 10:28:12 PM
Just curious Sean. Were these pictures recent?  If so maybe someone can tell me why it is so green?  I would think the turf would be much more brown like here in Boise.  Thanks
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Mark Pearce on January 17, 2012, 01:08:41 AM
Just curious Sean. Were these pictures recent?  If so maybe someone can tell me why it is so green?  I would think the turf would be much more brown like here in Boise.  Thanks
Lance,

From the bare trees, I'd say they were this winter (Sean will no doubt let us know).  Our grass is greener in winter than in summer.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: James Boon on January 17, 2012, 03:35:16 AM
Was I?  ;D

Sean,

Glad you liked Sherwood on your more recent play! Even though its close, I've only played it a couple of times (I find it hard to drag myself away from Hollinwell, especially now, or Beau or Cavendish of my other local favourites) I think its a great course, making excellent use of the rolling landscape and with a brutally tough finishing stretch! I suspect that Hollinwell being nearby, and Lindrick with its Ryder Cup heritage also not far away, pushes Sherwood down the pecking order for anyone in the area, but part of me would be tempted to push it ahead of Lindrick for anyone in the area?

Will hopefully post more later...

Scott, yes here is a photo tour I did of Sherwood Forest a couple of years ago, with some pics (and sarcastic comments  ::) ) from Sean...
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42229.0.html

Also, a link to discussion on the tree and gorse removal
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50159.0.html

Cheers,

James



Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Mark Chaplin on January 17, 2012, 05:12:25 AM
The area sounds like it calls out for BUDA, fine courses for the discerning player yet under the radar for the masses!
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: James Boon on January 18, 2012, 05:07:50 PM
Sean,

Thanks again for the tour of Sherwood Forest and your revised analysis...  ::)

I'll certainly have to head back to see the work to the bunkers, especially 12 through 14 as thats a real tough stretch. I understand your comment regarding the left and right nature of the bunkers, but in many instances, it seems a combination of this, plus a few shorter bunkers or the land short of the green (I'm thinking of 9 and 11 especially) all go to disguising the length of approach shot. Something that is lost a little with various aids, but still worthy architecture for me.

A pity you played to the other green on the short 7th. The main green is a particular favourite of mine, narrow with several different tiers all falling away from you.

Here is a link to some nice photos on the clubs website
http://www.sherwoodforestgolfclub.co.uk/sherwood-forest-golf-course-gallery-nottingham

Chappers,

I'd be more than happy to arrange something at Notts and Sherwood for Buda at some point in the future and I think they would make excellent venues, but from this years experience, aren't we better off playing the Americans on links courses?  ;D

Cheers,

James
Title: Re: Sherwood Forest GC: Boony Was Right
Post by: Sean_A on January 18, 2012, 06:26:03 PM
I like the use of the valley on #9 better than on either of the par five holes that precede it.

Ronald

Why?

Doc

I don't know who did the bunker work.  Hopefully it is a work in progress because they don't strike me as anywhere near as integrated into the layout as the older bunkers.

Boony

Sherwood has a lot of bunkers (must be not that far off 90 and more importantly it feels this way)  and that in and of itself makes it hard to place them in varied positions.  When I compare the placement of the bunkers with Little Aston, it seems clear to me that not all that could be achieved at Sherwood with sand was achieved.  

Ciao
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Tom MacWood on January 18, 2012, 11:17:03 PM
Sean
Once again nice work; you are a hell of a photographer. Do you know what changes Braid made?
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Mark Pearce on January 19, 2012, 07:57:59 AM
James,

BUDA is all about winning taking part not taking part winning.  A BUDA in the Midlands would be great, perhaps 2014 (I have a feeling that there was a move to go to Ireland in 2013)?

Mark
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Tom MacWood on January 19, 2012, 10:02:26 AM
I'm curious about the history of this course. Does anyone know what the course was called prior to 1921? I don't find any mention of it in The Times prior to 1922. I know the original course designed by Tom Dunn was called Welback Abbey, and I believe it was the Duke of Portland's private course. Colt never listed Sherwood Forest as a course he designed/redesigned so I'm thinking it was called something else in 1912.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Paul_Turner on January 19, 2012, 10:17:56 AM
Tom

The club history shows the changes by Braid but I don't have a copy.  From memory they were quite substantial.  I was thinking the same that the course may have been under a different name early on.  I'm not sure how the club has confirmed that it was a Colt design.  I think it's unlikely he would have simply forgotten to include it in the ads.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Paul_Turner on January 19, 2012, 10:25:52 AM
Is "Mansfield" on those earliest Colt ads?
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Sean_A on January 19, 2012, 11:30:04 AM
Paul

I am almost certain the original name was Mansfield GC.  I think the name changed after the new course was built.  I am also nearly positive this isn't an original Colt design.  I think Colt smartened up much of the course (which I am sure #s 2-4 are evidence of).  It could well be that Braid made changes after more land was acquired once the club became the owners of the land, but this is pure speculation.

Ciao 
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Tom MacWood on January 19, 2012, 12:19:01 PM
Paul
Mansfield does ring a bell. I'll check on that when I get home.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Tom MacWood on January 19, 2012, 04:11:41 PM
Oddly Mansfield is only listed on one of Colt's advertisement pamphlets, and its the pamphlet designed for French distribution, from the early twenties. That pamplet has about dozen courses not listed on any of the other pamphlets, and the majority of those courses (if not all of them) were never built. I have my doubts Colt designed the course. My guess would be Tom Williamson who seems to have touched every course in Nottinghamshire at one point or another.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Frank Pont on January 19, 2012, 04:36:35 PM
Sean

Any idea who is responsible for the bunker work?


Robin, the new bunkers have an uncanny resemblance to the bunkers that Tom McKenzie did at Tandridge.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: James Boon on January 19, 2012, 05:28:22 PM
One of the Notts GC members who I've played with a couple of times is also a member and past Captain at Sherwood Forest. I'll try and get hold of him and see if he knows or can point me in the direction of of the courses early history.

Mark,

Happy to arrange a Buda in the Midlands anytime the majority are willing to come this way.

Cheers,

James
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Mark Pearce on January 20, 2012, 05:42:35 AM
James,

BUDA is a bit like that Kevin Costner film, the name of which currently escapes me.  Organize it and they will come.

Mark
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Jon Wiggett on January 20, 2012, 05:59:25 AM
I remember the first time I played Sherwood Forest in the late 80s. There was a huge gash running across one of the fairways on the back nine, I think it might have been either the 15th or 16th. It was the full width of the fairway and then some and as much as 30 feet deep. It had apparently appeared over night and was caused by old mine workings collapsing. I after this I was always a little on edge with the thought that the ground might disappear under my feet.

Having said that, great course. I much prefered playing it as a regional qualifier for the open than Lindrick though I prefer Lindrick as a course and would rate it ahead of Sherwood even after changing the 12th.

Jon
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: David_Elvins on January 20, 2012, 06:16:56 AM
Sean,

Thanks for posting. 

The course looks really cool. 

How would you describe the green contouring?
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Sean_A on January 20, 2012, 08:07:21 AM
David

Like a great many of the classic GB&I courses, the greens aren't dull, but they aren't a strong suit of the design. 

Ciao
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Tony_Muldoon on January 20, 2012, 02:35:37 PM
Mark,

Happy to arrange a Buda in the Midlands anytime the majority are willing to come this way.

Cheers,

James

I've consulted the silent majority and they say. Thank you James. ;)
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Ben Stephens on January 20, 2012, 07:15:25 PM
Mark,

Happy to arrange a Buda in the Midlands anytime the majority are willing to come this way.

Cheers,

James

I've consulted the silent majority and they say. Thank you James. ;)

I must say that Boony actually organised the annual British + Irish architects golf event at hollinwell in 2009, it was very well organised and the eastwood hotel was 10/15 mins away its well worth it. We could call it the robin hood BUDA! Also Ran is more likely to be up for it as Hollinwell is one of his favourites in the UK
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Sean_A on January 21, 2012, 11:41:42 AM
As much as I like Sherwood, I think Beau Desert is a better partner with Notts for Buda.  The bottom line is Beau is clearly a better course than Sherwood.  I think a strong argument can be made that Beau is just as good as Notts.

Ciao
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: John Mayhugh on January 21, 2012, 01:26:24 PM
As much as I like Sherwood, I think Beau Desert is a better partner with Notts for Buda.  The bottom line is Beau is clearly a better course than Sherwood.  I think a strong argument can be made that Beau is just as good as Notts.

Ciao

Both Beau Desert & Notts are VERY good.  I would be more likely to join BD as it's a bit easier course, and heaven knows I need that.

A Midlands Buda is a great idea.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: James Boon on January 26, 2012, 07:00:07 PM
I’ve just managed to get hold of a copy of “Sherwood Forest GC, the First Hundred Years” by Stevenson and Woodward in 1995. As well as some interesting photos from the early 90s which support the discussions regarding tree, gorse and even rhododendron removal, I can report as follows:

The club was founded in 1895, playing over the Ravensdale fields, now a housing estate, and was originally Mansfield GC.

The original 9 hole course was laid out by J McMeeking, a founder member of Notts GC, at the time still playing over Bulwell Common before the move to Hollinwell in 1901.

In 1911 a committee was formed to find a site to move to suitable for a full 18 hole course.

The new course was laid out over land owned by the Duke of Portland. Harry Colt was “called in to advise”. He reported: “My opinion is that the soil and natural features of the land are eminently suitable for the construction of a really good golf course.”

A report was also submitted by Tom Williamson, professional at Notts GC.

Minutes from a special meeting of the members on 11 March 1911 state “Mr H S Colt of Sunningdale has viewed the land and approved the holes as laid out”. The proposals to move to the new course were unanimously endorsed by the members. It was also at this meeting that it was resolved to rename the club “The Sherwood Forest Golf Club Ltd”

The book goes on to state “Work on the new course, under Colt’s guidance, was progressing rapidly” and that JH “George” Vamplew, a greenkeeper from Seacroft played his part and helped to lay the greens, while Frank Mason was the main contractor for the work.

9 holes were ready for play in April 1912 with the full 18 open in 1914.

The book also states that due to a misreading of the course plans the 18th green was laid in the wrong place, initially leaving insufficient room to build a clubhouse.

The book itself goes on to question Colts involvement as the designer of the course, and mentions that one source credits A Mason, a Nottingham lace designer, with producing the plans. It also mentions that Willie Fernie, Open Champion in 1883, was taking an interest with his name in the suggestion book alongside comments o the course layout. Fernie had also laid out another course on Duke of Portland land at Welbeck.

I’ll post more on James Braid’s involvement with the club in the next few days.

Cheers,

James
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Paul_Turner on January 27, 2012, 09:32:46 AM
James

Thanks I guess it's still a bit murky.  As Tom M states, Mansfield isn't listed on Colt's earliest ads at around 1920 but it does pop up on the one French one which is 1924.  But doesn't appear in later ones as either Mansfield or Sherwood.  None of this fits with a 1911 report.

In the earlier ads he lists clubs which he has simply "visited" so I would have thought Mansfield should have been listed in the 1920 ad.  In later ads he is more  explicit in defining the extent of the work involved i.e from minor work, remodeling,  through to a full new and supervised design.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Tom Kelly on January 27, 2012, 01:05:34 PM
Sean

If you think the 10th offers some respite, you should play it in the height of summer when the greens are up to speed...be past/above the pin at your peril, I have seen a great many rounds including one of my own ruined by that green!

I am a big fan of the 3's at Sherwood especially the 7th when played to the proper right hand side green.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Sean_A on January 31, 2012, 03:42:50 AM
Thomas

Yes, the one-shotters are a good set and a good counterbalance against all the long hitting.  For sure the 10th is the most difficult especially if the hole is cut up front between the bunkers.

Ciao  
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: James Boon on February 01, 2012, 05:41:09 PM
I've got a little further into the clubs centenary history book...

Though it appears there are questions over the degree of involvement that Colt had with the club, according to “The First Hundred Years” Braid’s involvement is a little more straightforward…

At the April 1924 Directors meeting, the management were instructed to “Engage the services of an expert to give a report on the course generally as to improvements in the lay-out and to carry out such alterations that may be recommended”. The expert chosen was James Braid.

Braid’s redesigned course came into play during 1927, though some new and reshaped bunkers were not completed until 1930.

Braid made only modest changes to the first few holes, reasoning that the comfortable start gave golfers something to play for, but new tees were added to lengthen the 4th and 6th considerably.

Braid gave the 7th a new narrow, elongated green, strongly bunkered on either side. But the old green to the left has survived and is still occasionally used on none competition days or the winter.

The 8th was given a new tee and the line of the fairway changed to the left to play to the new green, adding 45 yards. The green and fairway at the 9th also moved left producing 40 more yards.

The new 9th blocked out the old 10th which had its green in what is now a spinney alongside the 11th fairway. The new 10th green allowed Braid to add almost 200 yards to the 11th.

The old 12th tee was behind the present one, playing to a green at the right hand corner of the dogleg. The new green was sited short of the old 13th green, which was close to the out of bounds on the right  of the current hole. New tees to the left of the new 12th green, the extra distance gained being added to the old 14th to make a new 13th of 440 odd yds. The old 15 had been a monster hole for the time, at 575yds, played to the current green of the par 3 15th. A new 14th of 430 odd yards finished off the run of four tough par 4s in a row. The length left over from the monster bogey 6 hole thus became a par 3.

The old 16th played straight towards what is now the turf nursery to the left of the current hole. This meant that the old 17th was much shorter at 235 yards. By doglegging the new 16th further down the hill to the right, Braid created extra yardage to stretch the 17th. The 18th was also extended, so that in total Braid had added over 600 yards.

   Original       Braid
1   315yds bogey 4   327yds bogey 4
2   375yds bogey 5   396yds bogey 4
3   340yds bogey 5   362yds bogey 4
4   125yds bogey 3   167yds bogey 3
5   485yds bogey 5   493yds bogey 5
6   375yds bogey 5   434yds bogey 5
7   115yds bogey 3   126yds bogey 3
8   460yds bogey 5   505yds bogey 5
9   432yds bogey 5   472yds bogey 5

10   165yds bogey 3   195yds bogey 3
11   277yds bogey 4   457yds bogey 5
12   290yds bogey 4   433yds bogey 4
13   293yds bogey 4   448yds bogey 5
14   328yds bogey 4   434yds bogey 5
15   575yds bogey 6   188yds bogey 3
16   435yds bogey 5   490yds bogey 5
17   235yds bogey 4   362yds bogey 4
18   335yds bogey 4   371yds bogey 4

   5955yds      6660yds

With the original 11 through 14 all playing as short par 4s, to then be followed by a long par 5 or bogey 6, makes for an interesting difference to what Braid turned into four really tough par 4s and a challenging par 3! That run of holes that Braid created needs to be played, into the prevailing wind, to be believed. One of the toughest stretches in England for certain!

Since then there have been some minor changes, with new bunkers added, old ones removed and then restored, and some new tees, and the 6th and 9th green extended slightly. The biggest changes appear to have been on the par 3 4th, with its green in front of the clubhouse, which used to have a somewhat punchbowl green that suffered from being to wet, and was therefore rebuilt, and then the tees moved as they used to be right of the 3rd green, which put them somewhat in danger from the 5th tee.

Cheers,

James
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Sean_A on February 03, 2012, 02:14:04 AM
Boony

Thanks for the added info. 

What do folks think about the current idea of making the tough holes on the back nine even tougher with additional bunkering compared to the usual idea of making the breather holes tougher?

Ciao
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: James Boon on February 03, 2012, 08:41:54 AM
Sean,

The stretch of long par 4s on the back nine is for me one of the toughest I've played anywhere, though I've been lucky enough that the conditions havent been too tough when I have. If however holes 12, 13 and 14 (actually the par 3 15th is tough of the back, 16 plays as a long 4 from the Championship tees and the last two are both over 400 from the Championship tees as well!!!) are played into the prevailing wind, and possibly also into a low setting sun, then its a brutal stretch.

My thoughts though are that if its already a tough stretch, then a few additional bunkers or whatever measures are employed to toughen it up for the better player, arent going to be noticed by most as its tough enough as it is. If however, they were to toughen up holes like 1, 3 and 5, which enable any player, good or bad, a chance to get a good score going, then it would lose the flow of the routing, and just become too tough for many? There are enough tough inland courses such as Woodhall as it is, Sherwood doesn't need to join them for me?

So make the tough holes tougher, but leave the breather holes as breather holes, whether it Sherwood or anywhere else for that matter.

Cheers,

James
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Sean_A on February 08, 2012, 10:56:38 AM
Yes, I agree.  If a course is going to be made tougher I prefer it be the harder holes made more difficult.  As I like a wide range of challenge, its a shame when clubs contemplate increasing the difficulty of the easier holes - especially in terms of adding distance.

Ciao   
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on July 26, 2012, 01:18:47 AM
I had the pleasure of playing Sherwood Forest yesterday in an open medal comp, using the opportunity to hook up with a buddy from another (non-golf related) forum. Sherwood was chosen for its equidistant location.

Immediately we were struck by the beauty of the place, the firm and fast conditions even after the rainfall of of the last couple of months, and above all the penal rough. A recurrent theme on so many holes is a long semi-blind carry from the tee over heather and worse to a narrow fairway prorected by bunkers whose presence is only revealed upon arival! Even a slightly wayward drive was almost inevitably lost in yesterday's conditions and I would have been tempted to play safe with my 3-wood had it not been for the ever-present fear that the carry was too great. The problem for the first-tiime visitor is that you have absolutely no idea how far it is to the fairway because you can't see it! I was eventually forced to NR after failing to find even my provisional on one hole and not fancying the 'walk of shame' back to a tee already occupied by the following group!

My friend commented towards the end of the round that he felt like he'd played the same hole eight times. I knew exactly what he meant as long par fours and short par fives merge together in the memory - today only hours after ny visit I cannot truly recollect many individual holes. The 18th comes as something of a relief as for the first time an entire hole is laid out before you, rather than just the heather clad brow of a low hill.

Despite this however, I found Sherwood to be a lovely place and as Sean says, the sum is greater than the parts. I am returning in September to play for the MacKenzie Society against the Colt lot and hope that my small amount of new-found local knowledge will work in my favour. Either way, I'm greatly looking forward to it.

On getting home to Stockport I found myself with an hour on my hands and, frustrated by my poor performance earlier in the day, I stopped by at Reddish Vale and played the Boozer's Loop - in level par.

A case of 'Familiarity breeds Competence'?
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Brent Hutto on July 26, 2012, 06:23:12 AM
Note to Self:

Demand extra strokes on Boozer's Loop
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on November 29, 2014, 01:33:22 AM


Any idea who is responsible for the bunker work?


Ken Moodie has had the Sherwood gig for a few years now.

Sherwood Forest is a lovely course. WAY better than Tom Doak's unbelievable 3. I'm very much looking forward to returning in August.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Sean_A on December 01, 2014, 08:09:10 PM
Duncan

Has Ken done anything more in the past year or so?

Ciao
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on December 01, 2014, 11:48:49 PM
Has Ken done anything more in the past year or so?


I think so. Ken and I played together in the MacKenzie - Colt match last year against the Captain and Immediate Past Captain of Sherwood Forest at Sutton Coldfield and there was clearly an on-going arrangement at that time between Ken and SFGC.

I presume there still is. The Sherwood guys expressed great enthusiasm for the work Ken had been doing.
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Sean_A on February 24, 2015, 06:16:32 AM
Duncan

Thank you. 

I realize that my tour is not up to date since the storms which ripped out hundreds of trees and continued work to the course, but I thought the pix may nudge people to attend Buda.  Think of it as a chance to put the Confidential Guide team in its place for such a miserable and shameful review  :D The front 9 alone is worth a 5! 

Ciao
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: Boony Is Right
Post by: James Boon on February 24, 2015, 04:48:21 PM
Sean,

Thanks for bumping this up to highlight Buda, though I feel slightly awkward whenever I read the Subject!  :-[

I played Sherwood a couple of times last year. Regarding tree removal / loss after the storm, from memory your older photos dont look that different, but on closer inspection I think a fair number of the silver birches have gone, especially down the right of 8 and 9 on your pictures. Other key areas where a lot of trees had to be removed are behind 5 green and around 6 tee, and along the right of the 18th. The pines that can be seen on the right of your pics of 4 are all gone as well.

Cheers,

James
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: Boony Is Right
Post by: Sean_A on March 01, 2015, 06:05:44 AM
Boony

I am intrigued by some of the tree loss, although you stated that on the whole it hasn't been positive for the course. 

Ciao
Title: Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
Post by: Frank Pont on March 02, 2015, 01:50:37 PM
Sean

Any idea who is responsible for the bunker work?

Nice tour and a nice looking course.

The bunker work looks very similar to what Hawtree has done with some bunkers at De Pan