Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Sean_A on July 17, 2011, 07:32:30 PM

Title: ALWOODLEY Again: 2016-17 Winter Tour
Post by: Sean_A on July 17, 2011, 07:32:30 PM
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Located on age-old farming land in a moneyed area north of Leeds, Alwoodley retains these farming roots with extensive use of rig and furrow.  Due to the prominence of Augusta National, Dr Alister Mackenzie is probably more famous than any Golden Age architect, however, it is often forgotten that along with Willie Park Jr, HS Colt and Herbert Fowler, Mackenzie was at the forefront of an inland architecture revolution which forever changed how courses were designed and built. While Alwoodley was not the first course to spring from this well of talent, Mackenzie's first effort is an early example being built in 1907. Not completely trusting to Mackenzie’s instincts, the club hired Colt to inspect the design and he visited Alwoodley twice.  It isn’t known if Colt made any suggestions or if The Good Doctor acted on them.  It is however, known that Mackenzie took advantage of poor weather during the winter of 1907/08 and with co-founder Arthur Sykes “were able to disregard their (the Committee) views entirely and make the course exactly as we wished.”

Map of the course.
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In many ways Mackenzie’s maiden design is born of his architectural convictions. When perusing the 13 General Principles layed out in his book, Golf Architecture, there are several tenets of design to which Alwoodley adheres, but never in a dogmatic manner.  It is, however, disappointingly obvious that a major creed of Mackenzie's design theory is now hopelessly buried in lush rough and heather.  The original width offered to the rabbit golfer no longer exists. 

Who wouldn't want to have a go? 
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A blind drive short two-shotter gets the pulse racing on #2.  The approach is tricky for those who can't pound their drive near the green.
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#3 is a flat par 5 moving slightly downhill. There is little trouble on the hole, but the green has a wonderful dip on the left side making hole locations on the precipice particularly difficult.
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A testing par four with beautiful movement to the left; the 4th can often play tougher than the 3rd.  (https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3776/33294505170_2fca52f156_b.jpg) (https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3776/33294505170_2fca52f156_b.jpg)

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The lovely down n’ up fifth makes an about face on #4 and is one the few holes with any measurable elevation change.  The rig and furrow lines are a feature which must be taken into account.
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As can be seen below, the rig and furrow lines can run up and down or across a fairway. 
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An old photo showing the bunkering/hummocks near the green.
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The 6th slopes right, but not to the degree of #5.  The greens are generally quite large and often times missing one can result in a similar situation as off the fairways; lush, heavy rough.  Combined with the canny slopes and numerous greenside bunkers, many greens are effectively smaller targets than they appear. This is especially the case since the project to relay the greens to USGA spec was completed for 1998 season.
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There is a bit of a hitch in the routing after 6 as we have long walk to the 7th....I believe due to the green being moved further back at some point in Alwoodley's history of many changes. Delaying the introduction of a short hole until the 7th may seem less than ideal, but Mackenzie had to cope with a narrow neck in the property.  He rather cleverly built two par threes bisecting the course, #s 7 & 14.  Essentially, a cross-over is created between 8 & 15 without actually having the danger of crossing holes.   
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Legging hard left, the 8th uses "Wigton Cover" extremely well.  There is a good deal of space right, but those wishing to reach the green in two will need to stay near the "Cover".  To gain the best approach position down the left the cross bunker and rough must be taken into account. Often times this cross bunker won't be in play, but it does serve its purpose in a contrary wind.
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The Pound seats after two shots.
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The side closes with a stern par 3 playing toward the wood.  The following two holes are where the major changes of Alwoodley have taken place since the original course was opened.  It is clear that Dr Mac planned for the changes if additional land could be leased.  In the end, these changes were realized and a rather awkward corner of the course was dealt with fairly well.  The changes to #s 10 and 11 are depicted in the upper right section of the plan.
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For those who know Augusta National well, the 10th will look familiar.  In the same vein as the 8th, #10 swings severely left then cuts back on itself at the greensite.  A very large drive will provide a view of the green for the dangerous long approach.  If the green can't be seen, it is perhaps wiser to lay-up with a short or mid iron.  There is nothing but trouble surrounding what may be the biggest sloping green on the course.
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Due to the overbearing vegetation vastly reducing the recovery options, the Redan 11th doesn't work as well as it might. I remain a bit surprised the green wasn't kept on the higher ground to the right. Still, this is a good hole demanding an exacting tee shot.  The hole was significantly altered recently. A new back left section for the green was created and several additional bunkers installed.
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A longish walk through a cooling wood takes us to the fairly short par 4 12th.  Once again there is evidence of rig and furrow in the fairway.  The 13th (are there 13 bunkers on the hole?) is a medium length par 4 playing dead into the prevailing wind.  Interestingly, there is a string of pearls bunkers just shy of the fairway.  Unusual for Mackenzie, there is a blind rear left bunker which protects a nearby hole location. 

The collection of par threes come in a span of eight holes between #s 7 and 14.  The 14th may be the most interesting of the lot.  It isn't dissimilar to the long approach from the right on #8.  The lay of the land suggests a fade, but trouble lurks left for the pulled shot and right for the under-weighted cut. Despite appearances due to the excellent use of natural vegetation, the goodly amount of space available for a bounce in shot is well camoflauged.

"Wigton Cover" once again makes it mark down the right side of the 15th.  Mackenzie again conceals the space fronting the green with clever bunker placement.  Notice the right bunker limits the depth perception between the forward centreline and right greenside bunkers. 
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Unfortunately, in 2017 the club took the decision to flatten out the back left bowl of the green to create more hole locations when so called big events come to town.   
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While blind, the 16th fairway is rather generous.  It is best to stay right due to the slightly angled nature of the green.  The clubhouse beckons for the final two holes.  If it wasn't for the 400+ yards of length, the 17th could almost be bit of light relief with its sunken green.  Approaching from the right isn't inviting because one senses there is a large conurbation of gorse to be mindful of. 
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In a rather Fowlerish manner, the green is tucked under the fold of a hill and for Alwoodley, is unusually defenceless where bunkers are concerned. Although, I believe a bunker once existed back right of the green.
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The second hitch in the magnificent routing is the long walk back to 18 tee.  The view on 18 tee is just as beautiful as that on the veranda...but not so inviting.  It seems everytime I return to Alwoodley the drive gets tighter and perhaps sand is overly emphasized for the shot.  I am not convinced the bunkers down the left are needed and they highlight the debate between aesthetic VS penal bunkering. While these are not Mackenzie originals, this balancing act seemed to be something Dr Mac played with for most of his career.
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Dr Mac on the tee.
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Directly in line with a flag is a dip making the golfer think a bit on how to tackle the shot.     
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Because Alwoodley was Dr Mac's first effort, it is perhaps somewhat surprising that top to bottom it is a very well designed course. But we must remember that he was associated with the club for approximately 25 years and it may be assumed he tinkered with Alwoodley now and again.  Perhaps due to this the course comes together in an exceptional manner in that it is a classic example of the whole being better than the sum of its parts. Not that there aren't exceptional holes, #s 5, 8 and 14 are very fine holes with the 8th being one of the best three shotters with which I am acquainted. 

The ebb and flow of the design works well in offering birdie opportunities to create a highly admirable balance between challenge and playability.  While not daring, the greens are interesting and where a bold feature is utilized it is done so with purpose.

There are few more inspiring views from a clubhouse veranda than Alwoodley’s and one can’t help but to want to stick a peg in the ground and begin the journey.  Unusually, this inviting and beautiful sense of grandeur is present throughout the 18 holes. 

On my visit in 2015 the situation of reduced playability due to severe punishment for missing the not overly wide fairways was a serious detriment to the joy of the game.  Thankfully, the club has taken steps to cut back rough, heather and gorse and it is hoped these efforts will pay off.   2017

Ran's Review.
http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/england/alwoodley1/ (http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/england/alwoodley1/)

Ciao
Title: Re: The Alwoodley GC
Post by: Peter Pallotta on July 17, 2011, 08:12:38 PM
I ask again for the 'applauding wildly' emoticon, a round yellow dot as happy as sunshine with short bouncy legs and three-fingered little hands clapping madly in appreciation!
Title: Re: The Alwoodley GC
Post by: John Mayhugh on July 17, 2011, 09:18:13 PM
Sean,
Thanks for starting this thread. I was fortunate enough to play Alwoodley a few weeks ago, and really enjoyed it. 

You are spot on about the view from the veranda.  The view of the course from there is stunning, and I was certainly excited to get the round underway. 

It's absolutely amazing that this course was Mackenzie's first design.  The variety of green complexes alone in the first five holes is amazing.  I especially liked the fourth.
Title: Re: The Alwoodley GC
Post by: Mark Bourgeois on July 17, 2011, 09:35:11 PM
Looking forward to the tour, Sean.

3-5 is an all-world stretch in my book. Someone should post pics of the original bunker on 1 for comparison.

A quibble, but isn't it rig and furrow? I recall Mark P and I having a discussion on the angle of incidence and the power of that concept as a distance regulator.

Wish we saw that employed purposefully on modern inland courses.
Title: Re: The Alwoodley GC
Post by: Tom MacWood on July 17, 2011, 11:05:55 PM
Sean
I've read what AM wrote about the formation of Alwoodley more than once and I've never quite understood exactly what took place. He wrote the committee finally agreed to his alterations. What does that mean?

Title: Re: The Alwoodley GC
Post by: Neil_Crafter on July 18, 2011, 01:08:37 AM
Tom, Mackenzie was part of the committee, so he was never engaged in the sense we know it today. He had to persuade the committee from within, and this was no doubt part of the reason why Colt was brought in for his opinion, ie to break the deadlock and come down on Mackenzie's side. I think after Colt had visited Mackenzie had a much freer rein.

Sean
Lovely photos. Brings back memories of my two rounds there in April last year with Nick Leefe.
A small quibble, but not Alistair. Either Alexander as he was christened or Alister.
Title: Re: The Alwoodley GC
Post by: John Chilver-Stainer on July 18, 2011, 02:09:11 AM
Sean,

Great photos of Alister Mackenzie’s Alwoodley green entrances.

What were the “differences” between Mackenzie and the committee?



Mark,

When in doubt Google first and you’ll inevitably find Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridge_and_furrow

not to be confused with Sid and Gruntfuttock !!!
Title: Re: The Alwoodley GC
Post by: Mark Pearce on July 18, 2011, 02:16:17 AM
John,

You'll find a similar (albeit shorter) Wikipedia entry for Rig and Furrow.  My home course also has rig and furrow fairways, as do others locally and I know of no-one who calls them "ridge" and furrow.  I suppose it might be a regional thing.

Mark B,

I recall that conversation.  If only golf courses could always be as firm as Alwoodley was for BUDA that year.  The sight of balls bouncing yards in the air off the upslopes was extraordinary.

Sean,

Looking forward to the rest of this tour, thanks.
Title: Re: The Alwoodley GC
Post by: John Chilver-Stainer on July 18, 2011, 02:46:05 AM
Mark P,

Thanks for your version of "Rig and Furrow" – very interesting and once again I’m learning something from this informative web site.

According to the Wikipedia entry for “Rig and Furrow” :-

“Rig and furrow was a type of cultivation practised in upland areas of the British Isles which differs from the more common ridge and furrow in that it appears to have been created through excavation by spade rather than plough”

Apparently the difference is discernible by the narrower spade “rig and furrow” compared with the broader ploughed “ridge and furrow” – but then again maybe the difference is just a local dialect interpretation for the same thing.

If a 5 star modern golf course construction took place these “ridge and furrows” would probably be ironed out and replaced by mounds and catch pits.
It’s great there are still good examples of *ridge and furrow” in the fairways of the older courses.
Muirfield in Scotland  has some “ridge and furrow” fairways, as also the “Braids” near Edinburgh.
Title: Re: The Alwoodley GC
Post by: Scott Warren on July 18, 2011, 03:13:37 AM
Nick Leefe definitely calls them "rigs" and "furrows" at Alwoodley. I trust he can be comfortably relied upon as an authority!
Title: Re: The Alwoodley GC
Post by: Mark Pearce on July 18, 2011, 03:59:29 AM
The rigs are certainly of a narrower wavelength at Alwoodley (and Northumberland) than the movement at Muirfield, so perhaps John's quote from Wikipedia is right and what we see are two different but related styles of agriculture.  Aerial photos of Alwoodley certainly show the rigs and furrows prominently.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Tom MacWood on July 18, 2011, 06:41:08 AM
"The late Mr. Arthur Sykes had also made a close study of golf course architecture, and on putting our heads together we thought we had more chance of getting our ideas through by permanent committee of friends than by committee that was changing every year.

On achieving this, we thought that our troubles were over, but in reality they were only just beginning, as every committee meeting was a dig fight, and on many occasion we nearly came to blows.

At the time Harry Colt made a great success of his alterations at Sunningdale, and two months previously he had got his first fee for advising at Ganton, a glorious natural course where Harry Vardon was professional.

We managed to persuade the committee to call in Harry Colt to settle the disputes, and he decided in our favour.

The committee agreed to the alterations, but few weeks' time such was their conventional outlook they passed resolutions entirely contrary to Harry Colt's and our ideas, and gave us instructions as to how the work was to be carried out during the winter."

Neil
I've read this passage several times and I'm still uncertain what he saying. I would think he was either engaged to design the course or he wasn't and someone else was engaged. Unless you are saying the committee designed the course, and he led the committee, and every thing he proposed had to be approved by the committee. That seems like a very odd way of designing a golf course, even in 1907. The line about the committee agreeing to the alterations is what throws me. Alterations to what?

He also talks about the work being carried out over the winter. Is that the winter of 1906-07?

Ironic this thread would come up right after my email to you.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark Pearce on July 18, 2011, 06:54:38 AM
Sean,

The first two fairway bunkers on the left of 18 are very new.  They were being laid out, I think, when BUDA visited Alwoodley (was that 2007?)  I believe they are intended to dissuade golfers from playing towards the left and the properties which lie OOB.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Bill_McBride on July 18, 2011, 09:37:47 AM
Sean,

The first two fairway bunkers on 18 are very new.  They were being laid out, I think, when BUDA visited Alwoodley (was that 2007?)  I believe they are intended to dissuade golfers from playing towards the right and the properties which lie OOB.

This is confusing.  There's nothing to the right but the first fairway, right?   The OOB and homes are to the left. 
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Peter Pallotta on July 18, 2011, 09:47:04 AM
It seems that Dr. Mac wore his principles lightly here, which is very nice and also quite unexpected, Alwoodley being an early/maiden work.  I would've expected someone out to prove himself and trying too hard to impress or to impose his principles more firmly and overtly/obviously.  (Mike Nuzzo's Wolf Point seems another example of a first timer managing to create the work of a seasoned veteran.)  Interesting to compare with later work, courses Dr Mac designed with many more tools and equipment and manpower at his disposal, and with a reputation to uphold. Of course, I'm not the one able to make that comparison...

Peter   
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Tom MacWood on July 18, 2011, 10:03:17 AM
No doubt the intrigues about the formation of The Alwoodley Golf Club may appear in the Centenary Book in 2007 !!!   But the records show Alister MacKenzie (AM) was a founder member (Jan 24 / 1907) and became a member of the General Committee at the first meeting.   At the second meeting on Jan 29 / 1907 the Committee  decided who became the Officers of the Club and AM was elected Hon.Secretary and his good friend Arthur Sykes Hon.Treasurer.    The Green Committee comprised 2 Committee Members, plus the Chairman, Hon.Treasurer and Hon.Secretary.

AM was Captain of the Club in 1912 and at the same time Edith his wife was Lady Captain.   AM was also Captain of Moortown in 1913 !!!   He transferred to Country Membership in May 1929 and finally resigned in Dec 1931.

I can quote from a letter sent to Henry Longhurst and Donald Steel in 1972, by a former Hon.Secretary Ralph Middleton who stated  that the Feb 1907 Minutes show  that Walter Toogood (Professional at Ilkley 1903 - 1911) was instructed to lay out the course, if his charges were not excessive.   These were later agreed at 2 guineas for the first day and half a guinea for any other days.  (Then a guinea was about £1.10)    With no CV and experience, we can imagime that the Commitee were not prepared to let AM however positive a character he was, start on the course at Alwoodley, but there is a later minute in July 1907 that the alterations to the course were to be discussed with Harry Colt and this was presumably when the services of Toogood were terminated and AM had started to oversee all construction.   

HSC was of course the Secretary at Sunningdale from 1901-1911 and had been at Cambridge (1887-1890) round about the same time as AM and also Bernard Darwin.   Colt was already developing his reputation as a course architect in 1907.    We assume that as the first Hon.Secretary AM would have had a strong hand in the way the course was constructed and this is evident from the original MacKenzie map that we found in 1995 when we moved to our new clubhouse.   This is the map you see on page 13 in Tom Doaks book published last year.   I can only guess that this was dated 1910 similar to other "plans of the course" that we have, or was perhaps done even earlier say in 1907 right at the start up of Alwoodley, and an amendment made later to the top right hand corner where new greens were suggseted for 10 and 11, with AM recommending the leasing of an extra triangle of land from the Lord Harewood. 

At Moortown in 1909 the short hole (then the 17th) called Gibraltar was a great success and the "new 11th" at Alwoodley has many similarities.   Also similar holes exist at Reddish Vale and the 9th at Crystal Downs also plays uphill with a very severe fall off on the left.   My own view is that MacKenzie was intrigued by course design (no one knows if he ever earned a real living from his medicine) and took every opportunity to get very involved at Alwoodley.   Harry Colt who had the reputation was called in by what must have been a prudent Committee to give professional advice on the design and layout of the course.   As Chairman of Green at Alwoodley nothing much has changed, as I am still charged to seek professional support if the Green Committee propose to alter the playing character of any hole.

I think you asked me a question, so in the midst of this I may have answered it !!!
   
regards Nick Leefe     (nickleefe@lineone.net)

I found this from Nick Leefe on an older thread, and in this context the AM account now makes more sense.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark Pearce on July 18, 2011, 10:08:23 AM
Sean,

The first two fairway bunkers on 18 are very new.  They were being laid out, I think, when BUDA visited Alwoodley (was that 2007?)  I believe they are intended to dissuade golfers from playing towards the right and the properties which lie OOB.

This is confusing.  There's nothing to the right but the first fairway, right?   The OOB and homes are to the left. 
Bill,

I am an idiot.  When I wrote right what I meant was left. 
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on July 18, 2011, 10:16:17 AM
Toogood of Ilkley actually did the earliest construction. And the course in some embryonic form was playable within a few months. The word 'alteration' was used consistently during the early minutes, and those minutes were compiled by MacKenzie as Hon Sec. It is clear from the course map that Sean has reproduced that the course was still in the course of development in 1909/1910 which is the probable date of the map. There is another map of about the same period by one H.A. Chapman (who was not a member). His map differs in some detail (positions of teeing grounds and some bunkering) but is generally similar. However MacKenzie's map shows bunkers already constructed and those still to be constructed. Early minutes occasionally mention winter work to include converting ditches into bunkers.

When I wrote the centenary book we couldn't decide whether a resolution to construct a new 11th hole was carried out. Recent detective work by Nick Leefe and Neil Crafter has found what may well have been the original 11th green in the trees beyond the 10th fairway.

MacKenzie's plan shows an alternative 2nd tee to the right of the first green, making the hole a dog leg with a forced carry over sand from the tee.

The 3rd was played from a tee on the far side of the 16th fairway and traces can still be seen of a bunker guarding the right side of the fairway. An instruction was minuted to 'fill in the ditch and make bunkers guarding the line of the 4th fairway.' Nothing of this survives, nor anything of a diagonal line of ridges eating into the fairway on the left suggested on Mac's map. The lone bunker on the left of the fairway seems not to have existed in 1909/1910.

The 4th hole is another in which instructions were given to convert into bunkers and those probably survive as that on the right about 250 yards out and two on the left farther on, tying with those on the 5th fairway.  

The 5th seems to have been converted into its present form in the winter of 1909-10 with instructions recorded about creating bunkers on the right and hummocks on the left.

The 6th was originally played across a vast, diagonal cross bunker, but to a different green. The present green, much farther on, was constructed in 1919. Today, played from the championship tees, the drive is blind, heather and other growth obscuring the fairway, which leans to the right and causes many to drive too far right into the rough. I saw talented young golfers searching - and sometimes not finding - their balls there during the Tillman Trophy in centenary year.

Surviving old photos show that the 7th has had various bunkering schemes, including at one time a cross bunker to catch the topped tee shot.. As built it had a small bunker to the left and a long, crescent-shape one half encircling the green on the right. Instructions of 1910 call for a bunker to be made, 'short of the green to the left.'

That big bunker on the 8th was once much bigger, extending to cut across the direct line from tee to green on the 9th. The greenside bunker on the right seems to have been a long, thin one. In 1910 the entrance to the green was enlarged.

The 9th was once very formidable with a forced carry over the bunker shared with the 8th. Mac's map shows a hole very different from Chapman's, Mac's with a diagonal ridge from ten to four o'clock, Chapman's running from eight to two. Their bunkering differs, too. Traces of these are still to be found.

The 10th was created in this form in 1929/30, by which time MacKenzie would no longer have been welcome at the club. But it does seem to fulfil Mac's earlier aspirations as shown on his map. It may have been an inspiration for the 13th at Augusta National - or maybe not. It may simply have been Mac's reaction to the land which he was given to work.

We now are fairly sure that the 11th is a new hole. When was it built? Permission was given in 1919 to 'proceed with the alteration of the surface at the 11th green.' Or was it created in 1929/30 when the ground had been acquired to build the new 10th green?

The 12th was very different in look, right out in the open air with no trees. The bunkering was slightly different.

Chapman's map differs from Mac's on the bunkering at the 13th, and they both differ from what remains today. The only recorded instruction is of 1910, 'Put in some hummocks. Make a bunker on the right 40 yards or so short of the green.'

The 14th is represented very differently on the two maps. The hole was then played at 154 yards so the narrow entrance to the green between two bunkers would have posed a gentler problem that it would today at 200 yards. Mac's map and a contemporary photograph show that the OOB fence lay just beyond the putting surface. Mac's map shows a bunker to trap the topped tee shot and alternative tees presenting very different angles of approach.

Mac's map shows the 15th green as being one of the smallest on the course. A contemporary photograph shows that the putting surface was once much more extensive than today, with almost as much again on the left side.

Until comparatively recently a ridge ran through the 16th green and vestiges of it can still be found in the surrounds to the putting surface. The bunkering has changed through the years.

A pair of Principal's Nose bunkers on the 17th fairway were remarked upon by WH Fowler in a newspaper article of 1908 shortly after he had visited the course. In 1910 a bunker was introduced 'guarding the whins'. Mac shows it as a diagonal trench. It probably survives as that bunker 50 yards short of the green. Mac's map shows a big bunker through the back of the putting surface. As the hole was played at pretty well the same length as today it must have been very demanding.

As Mark points out, the bunkering on the left of 18 is an attempt to dissuade people from driving into the houses that were built on the former practice course, the sale of which land greatly enabled the club to improve the condition of the course and built that fine, new clubhouse.



Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Bill_McBride on July 18, 2011, 11:15:33 AM
Sean,

The first two fairway bunkers on 18 are very new.  They were being laid out, I think, when BUDA visited Alwoodley (was that 2007?)  I believe they are intended to dissuade golfers from playing towards the right and the properties which lie OOB.

This is confusing.  There's nothing to the right but the first fairway, right?   The OOB and homes are to the left. 
Bill,

I am an idiot.  When I wrote right what I meant was left. 

No worries, first pint's on you!   ;D

Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark Chaplin on July 18, 2011, 11:23:15 AM
If you recall the first two bunkers on 18 were marked with sheeting during Buda and there was a presentation to members due. The club as I recall had sold land to the left of 17 & 18 for housing and the OOB was an issue. The bunkering was to stop more balls crossing the fence. IMO they've done a pretty good job.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Bill_McBride on July 18, 2011, 11:24:43 AM
Mark Rowlinson says of the sixth:

"The 6th was originally played across a vast, diagonal cross bunker, but to a different green. The present green, much farther on, was constructed in 1919. Today, played from the championship tees, the drive is blind, heather and other growth obscuring the fairway, which leans to the right and causes many to drive too far right into the rough. I saw talented young golfers searching - and sometimes not finding - their balls there during the Tillman Trophy in centenary year."

That is such a brilliantly deceptive tee shot.  There are at least thirty yards of fairway that are invisible to the left, an area that from the tee appears to be a sea of heather.   When the deception works, a tee shot to the far right (near what appears to be just right of center) adds at least twenty yards to the uphill second.   #5 and #6 are really good back to back par 4s, and #4 is certainly no slouch either.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark Pearce on July 18, 2011, 11:27:43 AM
If you recall the first two bunkers on 18 were marked with sheeting during Buda and there was a presentation to members due. The club as I recall had sold land to the left of 17 & 18 for housing and the OOB was an issue. The bunkering was to stop more balls crossing the fence. IMO they've done a pretty good job.
That ties in with my recollection.  Though standing on the 18th tee it's a truly spectacularly wayward tee shot that might get anywhere near the houses on the left.  Very wild and very long.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on July 18, 2011, 11:41:21 AM
But, Mark, lots of players DO hit there, despite the bunkers and trees, and some of those house owners are less than friendly. When they put in the new back tee and before the houses were built they asked Mark James to come over and deliberately hit balls into what was an emerging housing estate.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Dale Jackson on July 18, 2011, 11:57:37 AM
This thread is exactly what GCA is about!  Great photography and narrative, great comments, searching and respectful questions and informed answers. 

My congratulations to all who have participated.  Please continue.

My one one small contribution to the discussion on the bunkering on #18, and this may be something I get only from a photo and not present in real life, the addition of the 2 bunkers also changes our perception of the hole.  Without them we tend to look straight up to the green, with them the hole sweeps in from the left.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on July 18, 2011, 11:59:54 AM
There were no trees at all when Mac built it. It was a very bleak scene. Maybe someone could post some of the pics from his architecture books - my scanner's rubbish.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Sean_A on July 18, 2011, 12:21:08 PM
Dale

The 18th sweeps in from the left or the other left?

Mark

Thanks for the comments on the changes.  I wondered about the 6th not because anything looked odd (other than the swarming rough around the green), but because of the odd walk back to the 7th tee. 

#2 would be a bit odd as a dog leg right no?  The bunker scheme seems to fit the current green wonderfully.  I think it is my favourite green complex on the course. 

Concerning #18, I know there is meant to be some wisdom involved in placing bunkers online with areas golfers don't want to be anyway, but I will never understand it.  A bad shot is a bad shot.  I don't know why anybody would be aiming left off the tee and the bunkers aren't going to stop a ball which is threatening the houses. 

Ciao
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on July 18, 2011, 12:32:03 PM
Sean,

I think the logic is that if you aim straight and pull-hook you will hit the houses, but by placing the bunkers there you are encouraged to aim right when a pull-hook will be less disastrous. It doesn't work for my left-hander's slice, of course, but I'm not strong enough to hit it into the houses.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Dale Jackson on July 18, 2011, 12:39:23 PM
Dale

The 18th sweeps in from the left or the other left?


No left - the first one!  I mean that from the tee, the visual in the pic draws your eye from the left of the photo with the bunkers and I do not think that would be true without them.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Sean_A on July 18, 2011, 12:47:47 PM
Dale

I spose I don't understand what you are saying.  To my eye the hole flows from the right as in a draw off the tee.  The two furthest bunkers on the left are sort of in no man's land.  To me, they don't impact on the strategy of the hole in the least.  They are merely pretty things for BSs.

Ciao
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark Pearce on July 18, 2011, 12:55:53 PM
Dale

I spose I don't understand what you are saying.  To my eye the hole flows from the right as in a draw off the tee.  The two furthest bunkers on the left are sort of in no man's land.  To me, they don't impact on the strategy of the hole in the least.  They are merely pretty things for BSs.

Ciao
SEan,

I agree that to a mere mortal the two furthest bunkers on the left are in no-man's land.  However, a quick guestimate (based on the Strokesaver image on the club website) suggests that the first is between 290 and 300 yards from the tee off the whites.  It will, therefore, impact strategy for a flat belly (like you!)
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Sean_A on July 18, 2011, 01:12:38 PM
Mark

I hit a very solid drive on the last and just covered the second bunker, but not enough to escape the intolerable rough on the backside of the bunker - from the yellow markers.  To reach that second set is a huge drive into the wind that only true flat bellies could be worried about and if that were the case, they could flick wedges out to the green.  If I had to guess, I would say its close to 330 yards (maybe more as they could be as close as 80 yards shy of the green - I don't recall because they seemed so far out of play it didn't matter) to reach those from the yellow tees. 

Pietro

Yes, I am sure Dr Mac had guiding principles, but there would always be good reasons not to adhere to all of them all of the time.  Its probably like good bunker placement where maybe only half are in play for any given player on any given day!

Ciao
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Tony_Muldoon on July 18, 2011, 06:00:56 PM
Great show Sean.  I’ve said it before but even as a London homer there isn’t a finer pair of inland courses in GB+I than Alwoodley and Ganton.


When you’ve seen a few courses you realise 2 D Photo’s are rubbish.  Spent Sunday afternoon assuring my mother that Sandwich was not flat and no disrespect Sean, but the bowl on 17 is enormous.

(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f174/Muldoon3/alwood%20ganton/P9190022.jpg)



I love the 5th, sits there beautiful and plays even better. 

Happy memories thanks to Mark and Nick Leafe.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Neil_Crafter on July 19, 2011, 07:12:11 AM
Pics were requested of the 18th from "the old days". Here are two with Mac in them, from the tee and near the green. These were amongst a group of Alwoodley photographs that I purchased that were originally owned by Perry Maxwell.

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t65/Saabman2005/AlwoodleyMaxwellpic2-1.jpg)

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t65/Saabman2005/AlwoodleyMaxwellpic1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on July 19, 2011, 07:36:31 AM
Neil, Thanks for the pics.

Note that bunker is not raked. Several Mac pictures show him in bunkers. In the top photo the shed to the right of the clubhouse is the professional's hut. It acted as the clubhouse for the first year or so, the clubhouse seen here dating from 1908. It was extended a little in 1928 - the men's part was extended but not the ladies'. 
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark Bourgeois on July 19, 2011, 08:31:16 AM
Thanks, Neil. That second pic provides an excellent example of Mac's application of military entrenchment engineering to bunker design.

Note the flashing, the steepness of the face, and the flatness where he's standing. The idea is for balls to roll to the bottom and not get marooned on the bank or face.

If anyone has the pic from GA of the bunkering on the 1st there are other bunkering elements that relate to his military career and specifically to his notions of camouflage.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on July 19, 2011, 09:38:43 AM
I thought you might like a few Alwoodley stories:

The story is that a Party from Harewood House was visiting the Club and were exercising the privilege of Honorary Membership. Not knowing one of the Ladies in the Party, Mr Tomlinson asked her ‘Are you sleeping with the Earl of Harewood?’ The answer is not recorded.

Ralph Middleton’s reminiscences include the following canine incident: ‘For very many years, the rule has been that dogs are not allowed on the course: it must be confessed that the rule was more strictly applied in former days than it is now. In May 1923, the Hon. Secretary at the time was playing in a four-ball with three of his friends and, playing down the 3rd hole, he noticed a large cavalcade coming towards them along the 15th hole of four players, four caddies and some onlookers. He noticed that one of the players had a dog on a lead: so, detaching himself from his party, he walked across to the 15th hole to point out that dogs were not allowed on the course. However, when he was about 30 yards away from the party he turned and retreated to the 3rd hole! This was because the visitor with the dog was recognised as the then Prince of Wales (later King Edward VIII) who was staying at Harewood House and playing the Course.’

One of Alwoodley’s most famous anecdotes concerns an elderly member who was reclining on the chaise longue in the end room. A youngish new member entered the room, politely saying, ‘Good morning.’ The elderly man ignored him and remained behind his newspaper. ‘Nice day,’ said the young man. Again the elderly member ignored him. ‘They say the clouds will clear and we’ll have a sunny day for golf,’ chirped the young member. At which point the elderly member lowered his newspaper, picked up the telephone to the steward, and said: ‘There’s a young man here who wants to talk about the weather. Come here, will you, and humour him.’

A member playing foursomes took his gun-dog with him. The dog was instructed to sit on arrival at the teeing ground. Having driven from the 3rd tee the member forgot to instruct his dog to walk on. In fact he forgot about his dog until walking up the 16th fairway he spotted it still sitting obediently at the 3rd tee.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Sean_A on July 19, 2011, 05:28:19 PM
Pics were requested of the 18th from "the old days". Here are two with Mac in them, from the tee and near the green. These were amongst a group of Alwoodley photographs that I purchased that were originally owned by Perry Maxwell.

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t65/Saabman2005/AlwoodleyMaxwellpic2-1.jpg)

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t65/Saabman2005/AlwoodleyMaxwellpic1-1.jpg)

Neil

Thanks for the photos.  Looking at the 18th tee shot closely it does appear that the new bunkering helps to create a less flat look to the hole. Does that make sense?  Perhaps the obvious fairway cut lines in the old pic make it look flatter as well.

I would very much like to see any other Alwoodley pix you have.  

I would also point out the wee dip just in the front part of the green which can be easily seen in the old pic.  Sadly, the pix reveal how much the 18th fairway width/short rough has shrunk.  I wonder if more bunkers used to be surrounded by fairway and are now cutting in from the rough.

Ciao
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark Pearce on September 29, 2013, 03:39:59 PM
Brian,

Alwoodley is a wonderful course.  Better than Ganton, though?  Not in my book.  Certainly as good as places like the Berkshire and Swinley but Ganton is as good as inland golf gets.  Interested to hear where you'd rate Beau.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark Pearce on September 29, 2013, 05:42:28 PM
Brian,

I have played Swinley several times, at least half a dozen, so have seen a variety of different conditions.  I do think it's lovely.  I think Ganton is world class, though.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Jon Wiggett on September 30, 2013, 02:34:36 AM
It is also interesting that the bunker in the second pic is not weeded. I am not sure that the 18th fairway is narrower but rather the trees now down the left make it feel so.

Jon
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Sean_A on September 30, 2013, 05:44:25 AM
Sean will no doubt update his tour, and I intend to do one of my own (for good measure!), but although I'm detecting a good deal of praise for Alwoodley in this thread, I am surprised to see it is a bit muted.

Personally, I am comfortable in saying, after my round today, that not only is it one of the really special places in the world of golf, but also a fantastic golf course that is underrated in not being a serious contender in the conversation for second best inland course in the UK behind the Old course at Sunningdale.

See updated tour.

Ciao
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Ally Mcintosh on September 30, 2013, 06:17:25 AM
I have thought about it overnight and one thing that did occur to me was the exact point you made in your summation, Sean. It's hard to point to any particular standout or "all world" holes. When I think of Swinley or Sunningdale Old, I can point to 3 or 4 at least and maybe that is why Alwoodley struggles to break into the upper echelons in the rankings - but then again one might say the same thing about Ganton? Having said that, there are no weak holes either and it is stunningly beautiful. The icing on the cake is the amazing clubhouse and ambience. If I lived in the area, I would give my right arm to be a member.

Sometimes when you get a bunch of standout holes, you only think that they are standout because they are emphasised by what are actually some weakish holes (definitely not the case with Sunningdale though)...

Alwoodley is a cracker. I'd probably rate it along with Pulborough as my favourite inland course in GB&I.... Have yet to see Ganton.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Sean_A on September 30, 2013, 06:36:24 AM
I have thought about it overnight and one thing that did occur to me was the exact point you made in your summation, Sean. It's hard to point to any particular standout or "all world" holes. When I think of Swinley or Sunningdale Old, I can point to 3 or 4 at least and maybe that is why Alwoodley struggles to break into the upper echelons in the rankings - but then again one might say the same thing about Ganton? Having said that, there are no weak holes either and it is stunningly beautiful. The icing on the cake is the amazing clubhouse and ambience. If I lived in the area, I would give my right arm to be a member.

I spose it depends on one's take.  Some think to be great, a course must have great holes.  Most courses with great holes also have holes which are less than good or poor even.  Since Ganton is in the thread, take the 18th for example.  Its a dog's dinner hole that doesn't work on any level.  To me, that goes a long way to levelling out a great hole such as the 10th - probably the only hole at Ganton I would say is great.  Although, I think the 17th could be awesome if a 275-300 yard tee existed. 

Generally speaking, most folks way over-rate holes, to the point where they will claim 4-5 great holes per course.  I think 4-5 great holes per course is an extreme rarity.

Ciao
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Ally Mcintosh on September 30, 2013, 06:41:32 AM
I have thought about it overnight and one thing that did occur to me was the exact point you made in your summation, Sean. It's hard to point to any particular standout or "all world" holes. When I think of Swinley or Sunningdale Old, I can point to 3 or 4 at least and maybe that is why Alwoodley struggles to break into the upper echelons in the rankings - but then again one might say the same thing about Ganton? Having said that, there are no weak holes either and it is stunningly beautiful. The icing on the cake is the amazing clubhouse and ambience. If I lived in the area, I would give my right arm to be a member.

I spose it depends on one's take.  Some think to be great, a course must have great holes.  I am not sure that is the case with me.  A steady diet of very good holes in a fine setting without any obvious weak or just holes that aren't right is very difficult to beat.  Most courses with great holes also have holes which are less than good or poor even.  Since Ganton is in the thread, take the 18th for example.  Its a dog's dinner hole that doesn't work on any level.  To me, that goes a long way to levelling out a great hole such as the 10th - probably the only hole at Ganton I would say is great.  Although, I think the 17th could be awesome if a 275-300 yard tee existed.  

Generally speaking, most folks way over-rate holes, to the point where they will claim 4-5 great holes per course.  I think 4-5 great holes per course is an extreme rarity.

Ciao

The whole is the everything for me.

Therefore I don't believe a whole should be compromised for one strong hole that also generates a weak or out of place one.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Mark Pearce on September 30, 2013, 07:48:43 AM
It does have to be about the whole, I agree.  That said, I'm surprised to see Sean suggest that the 10th is probably the only great hole at Ganton.  In fact the 10th probably wouldn't be in my top 5 holes on the course.  I do think, however, that the 14th is one of the very best short par 4s I have seen anywhere (as good, for instance as the 9th at CPC) and is clearly a great hole.  I'm puzzled by the suggestion that 17 would be a better hole with a 275-300 yard tee, why would that be better?  Also, I agree that the 18th could do with some work with a chain saw and the road is a peculiarity but I don't see it as a bad hole and, with trees removed on the LHS could be a very good one.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Ally Mcintosh on September 30, 2013, 08:01:17 AM
Incidentally, I do think that a few peculiarities can fit in to a great whole whilst not seeming weak or out of character.... In fact, oft-times, a great whole is defined by a few quirks and subtleties that can add the variety in hole types whilst keeping a consistent, stylistic thread through the 18....

No.17 at Alwoodley might be such an example...
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY GC
Post by: Sean_A on September 30, 2013, 08:18:50 AM
It does have to be about the whole, I agree.  That said, I'm surprised to see Sean suggest that the 10th is probably the only great hole at Ganton.  In fact the 10th probably wouldn't be in my top 5 holes on the course.  I do think, however, that the 14th is one of the very best short par 4s I have seen anywhere (as good, for instance as the 9th at CPC) and is clearly a great hole.  I'm puzzled by the suggestion that 17 would be a better hole with a 275-300 yard tee, why would that be better?  Also, I agree that the 18th could do with some work with a chain saw and the road is a peculiarity but I don't see it as a bad hole and, with trees removed on the LHS could be a very good one.

Mark

I was thinking the green site is one of the best on the course and hitting at it from 230-245 doesn't really do it justice.  There isn't a great shedding nature which creates awkward short grass play, but if one had to approach from 50-100 yards it would be quite a difficult shot.   As it is, one just gives it a rip and sees what gives.  

Sheehy

I too am not totally sold on that 10-12 corner.  You can feel the humidity increase dramatically on the 11th and the claustrophobic feel of that low spot is very much out of character with the remainder of the course.  

Ciao
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: James Boon on October 02, 2013, 04:24:07 PM
Sean,

Thanks for the updated tour.

It was a fantastic weekend at Ganton and Alwoodley, and thankfully the weather was a vast improvement on the last time I played the two courses! Some of my points below will relate to both courses not just Alwoodley...

Ganton feels like a good hard working northerner to me, a great challenge that might take a while to fully come to terms with, while Alwoodley has a good deal of southern sophistication, and its beauty is clearer to see on just one play. I'm struggling to separate the two, but am still leaning slightly towards Ganton for some reason but only just!

And I'll hold my hands and say a, I was wrong and b, I cant be trusted to judge width! Having looked at the aerials when I got home, Ganton is very narrow in places!

Sean,

Are you thinking of the 9th hole at Ganton, the short par 5, when you say the 10th?

And I was surprised after playing the 17th at Ganton (on reflection better as a long par 3) and the 9th at Alwoodley from the new blue tee at 235 or so, that you dont seem to like long par 3s. I personally like the challenge of them as the temptation is to hit a fairway wood but at times its a soft driver thats needed or you even need to hit a full one at times and thats tough to bring oneself to do. I thought it was only the top pros that complained about long par 3s?  ;D

Brian,

You mention a lot of awkward green to tee walks at Ganton??? There are plenty where you walk straight from the green onto the next tee, and a few where I suspect the lengthening has made for a bit of a walk back, ie the 2nd tee, but I really dont think its got a lot of awkward green to tee walks?

Now for Alwoodley, I think you are right that some tree clearance around 10 to 12 would help. From the 1940s aerial photo I'd say a lot of these are self set, and clearing out would improve the heathland habitat, perhaps improve the conditions for the turf, open up some great views, and make life a bit safer when teeing off on 12 as you would be able to see who was on the 8th green and 9th tee rather than just randomly shouting "Fore!"

Having said that, I quite like the change in character of that part as for me it adds to the flow and variety of the course, rather than a jolting change in character.

Cheers,

James
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Thomas Dai on October 05, 2013, 03:38:32 PM
Very nice photo tour. Thank you for sharing it with us. Good to see the yee olde day photographs as well.

From looking at the tour photos there appears to be a significant amount of cross fairway drainage on quite a few of the holes. Is Alwoodley located on a particularly wet site?

All the best
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Jon Wiggett on October 05, 2013, 04:01:55 PM
Very nice photo tour. Thank you for sharing it with us. Good to see the yee olde day photographs as well.

From looking at the tour photos there appears to be a significant amount of cross fairway drainage on quite a few of the holes. Is Alwoodley located on a particularly wet site?

All the best

Thomas,

Alwoodley has quite a lot of 'rig & furrow' maybe that is what you have seen. The site is well draining and Alwoodley is a very good winter course.

Jon
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Thomas Dai on October 05, 2013, 04:18:07 PM
Jon,

Thanks for this detail. So the rig and furrow would have been there before the land became a golf course?

All the best
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Jon Wiggett on October 06, 2013, 06:05:19 AM
Jon,

Thanks for this detail. So the rig and furrow would have been there before the land became a golf course?



Yes. There are many courses in the Leeds area with this feature. Must be fun for the greenkeeper cutting the fairways ;D

Jon
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Sean_A on October 07, 2013, 05:41:17 AM
Jon,

Thanks for this detail. So the rig and furrow would have been there before the land became a golf course?

All the best

Thomas

The rig & furrow is a interesting feature which helps make up for the lack of little undulations like we would find on some links.  Its very easy for a ball to hit a rig and deflect into the rubbish thus emulating some of the odd bounces sometimes found on links.  

Boony

No, I was thinking of the short par three 10th, though the 9th is a good par 5.

Ciao
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Mark Pearce on October 07, 2013, 05:53:05 AM
Isn't the rig and furrow mostly at right angles to the direction of play, so that it effects whether the ball takes a stopping bounce or gets a kick forward but doesn't really kick the ball sideways?

We have some vestigial rig and furrow shaping left at Northumberland.  Interestingly there, Colt was brave and let the rig and furrow carry on through on the 6th green, which Mackenzie didn't do at Alwoodley.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Sean_A on October 07, 2013, 06:31:54 AM
Mark

I think there is enough angle off of 90 to increase deflections here and there - somewhat like a kick going with a slope or spin, but exaggerated.  I watched Boony's ball kick a quite a distance into the shiza on the 3rd.  If the land were flatish I think the ball would have held up.  Same thing happened to me on the 17th when if anything the land moves the opposite direction.  My ball took a huge kick right into the shiza.  I am not complaining, just saying its possible and the course is better for the odd freak bounce.



Ciao
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Sean_A on September 16, 2015, 02:25:53 PM
It is always a pleasure to return to courses.  This time I played with a high capper and a low capper, both struggled (as did I) with the horrendous rough.  Some photos reveal very lush rough mixed in with heather. An extra 10 yards of fairway would be very welcome if missing the short stuff is to be so penal...more in tune with Dr Mac's original fairway lines.  Anyway, I still really enjoy Alwoodley.  Its still amazing this was Dr Mac's first design.  See the updated tour on page 1.

Ciao
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Michael Goldstein on September 16, 2015, 03:49:53 PM
Great tour Sean.
It looks like they need to mow the fairways more than 3 times per year nowadays...
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: MCirba on September 16, 2015, 04:27:12 PM
Thanks for the update, Sean.  Alwoodley looks terrific and if I wasn't already greatly anticipating a visit there next month your pictures have me captivated.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Sean_A on September 20, 2015, 04:25:47 AM
Great tour Sean.
It looks like they need to mow the fairways more than 3 times per year nowadays...

Michael

I am not sure what is going on...maybe just a bad year weatherwise.  However, it does seem like much of the heather is invaded by lush under-rough and some heather is too high.  To a man I spoke with for the event (which included many archies), all could not fathom why the club would allow the rough to be in that condition with fairways of that width. 

Mike

Please report back after your trip.  Where else are you playing?

Ciao
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Jon Wiggett on September 20, 2015, 07:18:16 AM
Sean,

was there still any heather in the fairway sward?

Jon
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Jeff Bergeron on September 20, 2015, 05:32:12 PM
Fantastic my man!
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Sean_A on September 23, 2015, 07:43:33 PM
Sean,

was there still any heather in the fairway sward?

Jon

Jon

With my neck getting red in the rough I didn't notice if there was heather in the fairways...I wouldn't be surprised if there was though.

Cheers Berg

Ciao 
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: MCirba on September 24, 2015, 09:31:26 AM
Sean,

I'll be doing a bit of a whirlwind tour with another GCA'er as I play my 1000th golf course.   For largely sentimental reasons, I've chosen Muirfield to be my 1000th and I probably could have picked something easier to set up but it's looking pretty good overall.

We'll be flying into Manchester and playing Alwoodley on the way to Edinburgh as course 999.   Then Muirfield on Thursday the 22nd as course 1000.   

Friday early we'll be playing the Renaissance Club, hopefully followed by Gullane #1 and sunset at Musselburgh Old before driving back to England.

We're staying at the Dormie House at Royal Lytham, which we're playing Saturday morning, followed by Fairhaven and flying home the next morning.   As you might imagine, I'm very excited.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Sean_A on March 28, 2017, 04:30:40 AM
The 2016-17 Winter Tour stopped at Alwoodley....there is some good news and some bad news.  First, the good news. The club has been quite busy since my last visit. Lots of trees have been removed which has opened up views.  For example, behind the 10th is more open to views beyond.  The 12th tee has trees cleared right which now offers a lovely view of the 9th.  I was very surprised trees were not cut near the 11th green.  This is the one green which stands out as cluttered with trees.  The club also cut back a lot of heather, gorse and rough in an effort to make the course more playable and eliminate disease.  It is especially noticeable left of the 3rd fairway.  Its difficult to determine the results playing in March, but I am hopeful.  Now, the bad news. One of the more distinctive greens, the 15th, has been neutered for the sake of more hole locations when big boys come to town...which in truth is nearly always very minor amateur events. The result is the back left bowl is now no longer  :'(

See the slightly updated tour on page 1.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48951.msg1105392.html#msg1105392 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48951.msg1105392.html#msg1105392)

Previous stops on The Tour:

Luffenham Heath
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63819.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63819.0.html)

Celtic Manor 2010
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63796.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63796.0.html)

Kington
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30926.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30926.0.html) 

Welshpool
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63739.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63739.0.html)

Northamptonshire Co
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41336.msg1520020.html#msg1520020 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41336.msg1520020.html#msg1520020)

Enville Highgate
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44866.msg979077.html#msg979077 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44866.msg979077.html#msg979077)

Cleeve Cloud
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.msg1128469.html#msg1128469 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.msg1128469.html#msg1128469)

Seaton Carew Bishop Course
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,64112.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,64112.0.html)

Goswick
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,64104.msg1527538.html#msg1527538 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,64104.msg1527538.html#msg1527538)

Huntercombe
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32228.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32228.0.html)

Reigate Heath
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,64197.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,64197.0.html)

Princes
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44965.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44965.0.html)

Deal
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44965.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44965.0.html)

Future Scheduled Stops

Dunbar

Ciao
Title: Re: ALWOODLEY Again: 2016-17 Winter Tour
Post by: David Davis on March 28, 2017, 06:22:45 AM
Interesting tour and very timely for me. I will have my first play at Alwoodley mid April. Looking forward to it. I guess I won't miss the back bowl having never seen it.
Title: Re: THE ALWOODLEY Again
Post by: Bill_McBride on March 28, 2017, 07:08:14 PM
Sean,

I'll be doing a bit of a whirlwind tour with another GCA'er as I play my 1000th golf course.   For largely sentimental reasons, I've chosen Muirfield to be my 1000th and I probably could have picked something easier to set up but it's looking pretty good overall.

We'll be flying into Manchester and playing Alwoodley on the way to Edinburgh as course 999.   Then Muirfield on Thursday the 22nd as course 1000.   

Friday early we'll be playing the Renaissance Club, hopefully followed by Gullane #1 and sunset at Musselburgh Old before driving back to England.

We're staying at the Dormie House at Royal Lytham, which we're playing Saturday morning, followed by Fairhaven and flying home the next morning.   As you might imagine, I'm very excited.
Sean,

I'll be doing a bit of a whirlwind tour with another GCA'er as I play my 1000th golf course.   For largely sentimental reasons, I've chosen Muirfield to be my 1000th and I probably could have picked something easier to set up but it's looking pretty good overall.

We'll be flying into Manchester and playing Alwoodley on the way to Edinburgh as course 999.   Then Muirfield on Thursday the 22nd as course 1000.   

Friday early we'll be playing the Renaissance Club, hopefully followed by Gullane #1 and sunset at Musselburgh Old before driving back to England.

We're staying at the Dormie House at Royal Lytham, which we're playing Saturday morning, followed by Fairhaven and flying home the next morning.   As you might imagine, I'm very excited.

North Berwick?
Title: Re: ALWOODLEY Again: 2016-17 Winter Tour
Post by: James Bennett on March 28, 2017, 10:43:52 PM
Uncle Bill

That post was from September 2015!

Good choice all the same.
Title: Re: ALWOODLEY Again: 2016-17 Winter Tour
Post by: Frank Pont on March 29, 2017, 01:54:10 PM
Hope they surveyed the original 15th green before they changed it, probably not......
Title: Re: ALWOODLEY Again: 2016-17 Winter Tour
Post by: Sean_A on April 01, 2017, 01:47:25 PM
Frank

What does it cost to survey a green?

Ciao