Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: John Chilver-Stainer on June 26, 2011, 05:38:02 PM
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Paspalum has become the preferred Fairway grass for new golf courses in the warm climate zone of the Canary Islands, which is similar to North Africa.
The grass is preferred mainly for it’s salt resistant characteristics, where recycling of waste water is required, but also shows great playability when well maintained.
The playing characteristics of Paspalum in a project of mine in Fuerteventura are very positive. The grass can be cut low enough that a genuine “ground game” with long roll outs can be maintained - so that the “feeds” shaped in the fairways leading into the greens, can be well utilised.
The appearance in colour and texture are also, for my scottish taste, very “pleasing” - not too green as long as the watering is controlled.
What are your experiences with paspalum from a playability perspective?
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The only course I've played with paspalum grass is Forrest Richardson's Links at Las Palomas in Mexico on the Sea of Cortez.
My experience was much like yours. The turf is very tight, like links turf, and firm for my favorite ground game shots. I'm a fan.
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John,
I played several courses in Cabo that utilized it. It's very good if kept short. It works less well if cut to rough length, and particularly poorly as greenside rough IMO.
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I played a Hurdzan Fry Course in FL called The Plantation that was wall to wall Paspalum and found it very tight and playable.
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John,
I played several courses in Cabo that utilized it. It's very good if kept short. It works less well if cut to rough length, and particularly poorly as greenside rough IMO.
Who would want "green side rough?" IMHO that's a big problem in itself!
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We played the Ocean course at Kiawah Island which has Paspalum greens. They were delicious.
I do remember Ran commenting once about how in Australia, they consider it a weed.
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John,
I played several courses in Cabo that utilized it. It's very good if kept short. It works less well if cut to rough length, and particularly poorly as greenside rough IMO.
Please explain what you mean about it working poorly as rough.
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Fairbanks Ranch CC in Del Mar CA has paspalum due to the salinity of the local well water.This grass is excellent.
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Before using it, I played a few courses in the Hilton Head area that were wall to wall paspalum. I found it superior (slightly) to bermuda for both fw and greens.
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John,
I played several courses in Cabo that utilized it. It's very good if kept short. It works less well if cut to rough length, and particularly poorly as greenside rough IMO.
Please explain what you mean about it working poorly as rough.
Jamie,
It doesn't have a lot of give so it really grabs the club. The closest thing I can compare it to in my experience is Kikuyu. If it's cut to rough length around the greens I found that it killed the opportunity for any finesse shots and one was relegated to a bit of a hack and hope situation. As others have opined, it works very well for links style courses where ground game options are an integral part of the interest and defense of the design.
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So what are the downsides to this grass.
Given that its salt resistant, one would think this grass would be used in a lot more applications.
For example does it require more weed n' feed? More water? More mowing?
Thanks in advance.
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Jud: Sooooo let me get this right....its a poor grass because its actually penalizing when cut at rough length?? Oh the humanity!!!!!!! :*(
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Jud: Sooooo let me get this right....its a poor grass because its actually penalizing when cut at rough length?? Oh the humanity!!!!!!! :*(
I think you missed Jud's key point. Paspalum is a grass that is tight and firm like links turf. Letting it grow into rough around the greens takes away the ground game options that the turf allows. It would be self-defeating to grow that kind of rough in areas around the green. Kikuyu at places like Riviera and LaCumbre is awful, I suspect paspalum rough would be similar.
I don't think he said anything about it being a "poor" grass either.
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Jud: Sooooo let me get this right....its a poor grass because its actually penalizing when cut at rough length?? Oh the humanity!!!!!!! :*(
I think you missed Jud's key point. Paspalum is a grass that is tight and firm like links turf. Letting it grow into rough around the greens takes away the ground game options that the turf allows. It would be self-defeating to grow that kind of rough in areas around the green. Kikuyu at places like Riviera and LaCumbre is awful, I suspect paspalum rough would be similar.
I don't think he said anything about it being a "poor" grass either.
But the green doesn't have to be surrounded on all sides by rough. And he said it doesn't work well as fairway rough either. If a green has a 35 yard wide opening up front and rough on the flanking sides, how is any ground option lost? Seems to me that it is not. Perhaps you couldn't run the ball off as far with a poor shot, but that's secondary. He seems to be indicating, to my understanding, that paspalum is not well suited to rough because it is penalizing. That seems to run counter to the purpose of rough, which is to penalize off line shots.
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Jamie,
A large brick wall in the fairway is penalizing also, it just doesn't allow much variety in the types of shots played...
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Jamie,
A large brick wall in the fairway is penalizing also, it just doesn't allow much variety in the types of shots played...
So do you not want rough at all on the golf course? What is it you're looking for here? I guess I'm just used to living in the South, where fairways are almost always surrounded by bermuda rough, which is not the easiest stuff to play from, so that's just what I'm used to. I've always thought that near knee high Johnson Grass or Dallas Grass would make some real sporty rough grass.
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It's not a question of rough or no rough, I have no problem with rough as a concept. It's a question of how various grasses behave cut at different lengths. I'd say it's a fair bit stingier than bermuda and has so little give as to be no fun for anyone. Even very strong players who have spent a lot of time in the gym are relegated to one decision. The point is that options and thought are more interesting, particularly over repeated plays, than one-dimensional golf, particularly when you take into consideration the skillset of the average player who will be using the facilities...
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I played a local course once (and once only) that had Common Bermuda fairways, roughs, putting greens, tees. Basically the entire property where ever there weren't trees was wall-to-wall Common Bermuda interspersed with a fair crop of weeds. The putting greens as far as I can recall were basically round areas with one sprinkler head in the middle so the "green" was the lusher Bermuda grass within the throw of that sprinkler. Otherwise, the (unirrigated) fairways and roughs were almost indistinguishable and it wasn't that easy to tell putting green from fairway since there had been some rain recently. I think they mowed the greens every couple of days, the fairway every couple of weeks and the rough a couple of times per summer. Worst 15 dollars I ever wasted on a supposed round of golf.
Now I suppose from some perspectives (M.H.M.? J.V.G?) I should accept that the course must be played as I find it. There was grass to putt on, longer grass to play approach shots from, flattish areas from which to tee off, longer unkempt grass to disappear a mishit tee ball. It's golf! What am I complaining about?
But complain I did. Common Bermuda may make a dandy rough and if kept short, de-thatched and de-weeded can even make an acceptable fairway. Putting green? Not so much. Putting green Stimping around 2.5-3 feet? Not a chance, I'd rather spend the afternoon at work in a staff meeting.
I think Jud is sharing the opinion that ankle-deep Paspalum bordering greens is akin to 3/8" Common Bermuda for a putting surface. Sure it's supposed to be a hazard but almost anything or nothing at all would make a more suitable greenside hazard.
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Its a great turf...have used it on three courses. In the right sandy conditions and with good water it's like Bermuda on steroids. The older rap was that it thatched too much for greens, but that has lessened with the newest varieties...Platinum being one...which are more fine textured and thatch less. In many situations the same variety can be used for rough, fairways and greens...which is great from a maintenance viewpoint.
I predict that in 15 years it will make Bermuda grasses go the way of Beta Max (or just make Bermuda a thing of the past for you youngsters out there)...as they share similar growth zones.
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Kyle Phillips new course in Abu Dhabi, Yas Links, has paspalum and it plays really well. Particularly compared with other courses in the area.
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How would it work in the desert climate like Phoenix that presents some turf challenges?
- Very hot in the summer
- Mild winter but some frost or occasional hard freeze possible
- Mostly heavy clay soil
- recycled water with high salt content.
Does the paspalum go dormant in the winter like bermuda? Would overseeding be necessary?
As far as rough goes, bermuda rough is not particularly fun.
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I've played on it at Kiawah during the winter and it goes golden brown and dormant. Not pale straw-colored like Bermuda and it sure seemed to me the dormant putting greens were firmer and more resilient than dormant Bermuda would have been, although it was just late December so I don't know how it looked come February.
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How would it work in the desert climate like Phoenix that presents some turf challenges?
- Very hot in the summer
- Mild winter but some frost or occasional hard freeze possible
- Mostly heavy clay soil
- recycled water with high salt content.
Does the paspalum go dormant in the winter like bermuda? Would overseeding be necessary?
As far as rough goes, bermuda rough is not particularly fun.
Tom, give Forrest a call. I don't think he's used it your area but did down at Puerto Penasco/Rocky Point to good advantage.
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Newport Dunes, Arnold Palmer links like course near Corpus Christi, TX is the first and only course I have played that has Paspalum. I thought it was great. the "links like" of this design doesn't merit the usual eyerolling- this is an ocean course with lots of wind and routed through sand dunes. The Paspalum and the wind make for some fun rollouts on the fairways- I'm suprised this course doesn't get more attention on the DG.
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Just played three courses on Oahu with Paspalum: Koolau,Turtle Bay Palmer and Fazio. I was expecting bermuda, and was pleasantly surprised at how they have gone to paspalum.
Looks good, no grain on the greens, like salt air and non-potable water... seems low maintenance and I really liked the playability, I used all my clubs including driver off the deck into the wind...grass stands up nicely on greens and in fairways, the ball doesn't plunge too much in to the rough, but it was not thick rough.
I think it would be a good architectural material to be specified at a course regardless of style of play design.
Thanks
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We had it green and tee during the Senior PGA in 2007 and the pros absolutely loved it. We're now wall to wall and looking forward to the 2012 PGA. The generaly response have been great by our guests. One of the challenges is that our super has to use growth retardant on the greens in our peak growing season since the darn stuff grows so fast. We generally don't have heavy rough around our greens as we like to give the players options. Personally, I us the Texas wedge all around The Ocean Course.
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Amazing how little known paspalum is in the SE. It's still a mental barrier to shift to hybrid Bermuda greens from bent. Will be interesting to see what if any shift occurs to paspalum away from the coast. I do see a lot more zoysia in charlotte slipped in on tees and sometimes green collars.
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How would it work in the desert climate like Phoenix that presents some turf challenges?
- Very hot in the summer
- Mild winter but some frost or occasional hard freeze possible
- Mostly heavy clay soil
- recycled water with high salt content.
Does the paspalum go dormant in the winter like bermuda? Would overseeding be necessary?
As far as rough goes, bermuda rough is not particularly fun.
Tom
Paspalum does go dormant. Dormancy is comparable or a bit longer than most hybrid Bermudas, if I recall correctly. UofA's turf program is working on overseeding protocols with limited success.
My experience in Puerto was that it was patchy when grown to rough length. Better prospects of getting the club on the ball than in common Bermuda rough.
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Before everyone jumps on the paspalum bangwagon, let me point out a few things...
For the courses in the southwest that overseed, paspalum is not a good grass to seed into. It does not transition well and is also very dense, thus making seed to soil contact difficult. In the desert climates, if it's cold enough for bermuda to go dormant, so will paspalum. Example-Dove Mountain-the light tan, dormant bermudagrass ringsaround the bunkers.
Paspalum needs fresh water to be grown in. Once established, brackish water is fine. A clean water source must still be used.
Palpalum gets a lot more patch diseases, similar to zoysia. I, personally have not delt with any patch disease on bermuda, but those that have seen a little disease, just say bermuda will grow out of it.
Because paspalum is a thicker, waxier grass, mower reels needto be checked and SPOT on every time they leave the shop. If not, the leave blade with tear, creating a terrible look, cosmetically, but also open that leaf blade for disease pressure.
Lastly, if the site contain bermudagrass before, keeping the bermudagrass from not showing up again is a daily/weekly/month task of scouting.
Do not get me wrong, I think that we are only going to see more and more paspalum courses because of water restrictions, but not because it's easy to maintain or manage.
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Anthony, do you think its a better grass for tropical climates? It is the standard now in Southern China, unfortunately there aren't many good suppliers and does terrible with heavy traffic. I'm still unsure, but I like the ability to go wall to wall with Platinum.
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Ryan,
I see it becoming more and more popular in the tropical climates because it's the "new thing" and also, many tropical courses being built now are resort-many golfers like the stripes and dense turf. I can see it being a better grass in the tropical climates because they still get a lot of rain from mother nature, which will help flush the salts built up from the use of brackish water. I, personally, would not get to be on a course with both bermuda and paspalum...it's mess with the edging, removing bermuda encrochment, etc....
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It is very tight, but the best part is that you can stress the grass and let it dry out and be firm. I am a big fan, to coin the phrase of Mr. McBride.