Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Jud_T on May 07, 2011, 04:16:46 PM
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Ravisloe Country Club in Homewood, Illinois, was a private Jewish Country Club for 107 years until the club had lost too many members to sustain itself and it was sold in early 2009. Fortunately a wealthy veterinary surgeon who's not a golfer but loves open green spaces bought the club and has hired a firm to run it as a public course as a service to the community. The course was originally done by Moreau & Foulis in 1901 on 120 acres and was revamped by William Watson from 1910-13 after the club had purchased an adjacent 55 acre parcel. Donald Ross was brought in to renovate the course from 1917-1919 with fine tuning under his direction done through 1924. In 2001, the club hired David Esler, who also designed Black Sheep Golf Club in Sugar Grove, IL, to restore the course, keeping the original Ross principals in mind.
For my money this is now the best public course in the greater Chicago area, particularly after the Open Doctor got done with the latest renovation of Cog Hill #4. While only 6321 yards from the tips and par 70 it's a really fun track that has a nice variety of holes and isn't exactly a pushover. There's a fine set of greens and the bunker restoration that Esler did is quite good. I've played the course enough times to speak reasonably intelligently about it and hopefully others may chime in as well. Unfortunately the day I took these pics it was overcast but hopefully you can still see some of the interesting details. I don't have quite enough pictures to do a comprehensive tour as I was playing with my 12 year old son but here's the interesting ones:
#1:
395 Yard Par 4:
A fine starting hole. The play is to challange the bunkers on the left side, but it depends on wind direction as to whether the average player can carry them. One can always bust a driver up the right side as the bunkers aren't reachable except for the long hitters, but this leaves an awkward angle of approach. On approach one either challenges the left greenside bunker or risks catching the wrong side of the swale on the right side of the green and funnelling well down into the runoff area which leaves a difficult up and down.
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#2:
535 Yard Par 5
The long hitter who wants to get home in 2 here needs to hit a big draw off the tee and try to run a fairway wood or long iron up on the green with their second which is a pretty tall order as the crowned green isn't very accepting of anything more than a mid-iron shot. Trees encroach the approach from the left side and the bunker comes into play on right. The green runs off left and long, which is a common miss and leaves a tough up and down.
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Third hole from the fairway after a blind tee shot with out of bounds right. While this Par 5 is only 490 yards going for it in 2 is dicey at best as the slope of the green is quite severe and it's well bunkered.
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Third Green. The slope is more severe than it appears. Long of the swale is a very difficult up and down.
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4th Hole:
181 yard Par 3. Another very well bunkered green with a lot of movement that's one of the tougher pars on the course. Notice the false front on the green. Very difficult when the pin is on the rear section.
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5th Hole:
315 Yard Par 4:
One of those holes you walk off with a 5 scratching your head on what is seemingly an easy hole. You either need to hit a fade with a driver off the tee and get a wedge in your hands to have a chance at birdie or hit an iron straight away and take your chances on the approach. Another solid green with a tough rear hole location. The targets on some of these greens to get it close is very small and if you're too aggressive and miss in the wrong spot you're looking at bogie or worse.
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More later...some of these are out of order so I'll do my best to get 'em up properly....
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Nice course, but not best in class in any category in Chicago. It might have been the best private, Jewish 18 hole course in Chicago, but it was never a top 30 "all-ethnic" private club in town and it didn't vault to the top public when it went bust. Not nearly as good as Cog Hill #4, Pine Meadow or Big Run, not to mention Shepherd's Crook or Thunderhawk, neither of which I've played.
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JUd
I don't know about Terry, but this looks exactly like my type of course. I am stunned that folks haven't talked much about this place. More please!
Ciao
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Sean
There have been many threads about Ravisloe. Here is just one prior thread:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,43775.0.html
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Terry,
In terms of the fun quotient only Shepherd's Crook comes close on the public side IMO.
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Terry,
In terms of the fun quotient only Shepherd's crook comes close on the public side IMO.
It certainly looks more interesting than Pine Meadow just from the little I've seen here. I'm not the biggest Cog Hill fan either but I would reserve judgment until I have played Ravisloe.
Doesn't Ravisloe have the reputation of being too tight because of the over abundance of trees?
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David,
Having played Ravisloe a number of times last year, I never felt it was very tight. Most of the fairways were amply wide with another 10 yards are each side before you reach the trees. I believe I only ended up in the trees one time last year, and that is with one of the worst drivers in the game of golf.
The greens are fantastic. Every single hole is a fairly simply GIR, but missing to the wrong side leads to an extremely difficult par and a challenging bogey. 3 is a great example, if you go long the entire green runs towards the front, rather severely. Going long leaves a delicate shot that if played down the wrong part of the green will go off the front or into one of the steep bunkers. Leaving it short however leaves a shot with an ample number of backstops to use for an aggressive chip.
Chris
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#1 pix inserted above.
David, as an average player who enjoys width, I don't find the trees a problem at all. Not sure, but I'm guessing Esler cleared a bunch out during the renovation a decade ago.
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#6:
135 Yard Par 3
A short par 3 which can yield a birdie, but just as easily a bogie. Depending on pin position one can use the ridge in the green to funnel one's ball in. A short hole, but a pretty small target if one want's a realistic shot at birdie. The back left pin position is the toughest one to attack. Notice the bunkers short and right, which are only in play for a very poor shot yet appear to be closer to the green and are just enough to add a bit of pucker factor for the average player.
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#7:
203 Yard Par 3
Ok, admittedly there's 3 par 3's and a short par 4 from holes 4-7, but both 4 & 7 play pretty tough and 8-10 can bring a string of bogies as well. Most players only par this hole as a result of an up and down as it's a pretty tough green to hold in regulation. It's a pretty healthy carry over the water on the correct line and for most players this involves a rescue club or a fairway wood which brings long into play. Into the wind this hole's a very stern test and the subtler movement on the green may be missed by the untrained eye after the big swales of the previous 4 holes.
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#2 updated above, sorry about the ordering. can't figure out how these got jumbled up...
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#8:
390 Yard Par 4
Best angle is to hit a fade over the left edge of the bunkers and catch the slope over the crest of the hill, but although it's about a 220 yard shot it's deceptively uphill and difficult unless playing with a tailwind. You can barely make out the top of the flag but it's blind from the tee. The area short of the green allows for a shot to be run up on the green. Again notice the nice foreshortened bunkering.
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#9:
405 Yard Par 4
A solid par 4 with out-of-bound right and yet another very good green with some nasty break. The fairway bunkering challenges the strong player off the tee and the high handicapper on the approach. Unfortunately I don't have a shot of the bunkers short of the green but you can see them in the distance.
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#10:
395 Yard Par 4
The third in a string of solid par 4's. Nice downhill tee shot and a large green with more subtle break. When it's firm and fast a good drive is amply rewarded here.
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#11
226 Yard Par 3
A really good hole. As at the first, one has to either challenge the bunker left or risk running down the slope to the right which leaves a likely bogey. The smart play for most is actually to lay up just short and right which leaves a simple chip and a chance at par. I wonder how much of the fairway bunkering is as originally intended.
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Nice course, but not best in class in any category in Chicago. It might have been the best private, Jewish 18 hole course in Chicago, but it was never a top 30 "all-ethnic" private club in town
Terry,
I'd love to hear 30 better private club courses in the area. I'd have a tough time listing more than a dozen and there's only 3 I can think of that I haven't played that are likely candidates...certainly not a stern test for the best players in the broad-shouldered Chicago tradition. But for most non-single digit players, which is most players, I can only think of a handful of private clubs in the area I'd rather play day in and day out...Again, if the category is FUN as opposed to CHALLENGING or PRETTY, it definitely makes the list with a bullet IMHO....
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For eighty-five years or so, Ravisloe was your typical, flat, overtreed and well-manicured Chicago private club. Then David Esler came in and put some minimalist touches on the course, cut down a minimal amount of trees, restored lost bunkers, planted native grasses and restored some of the charming touches that had been lost over the years. But it was still a pretty decent private country club course, IMHO. The restoration didn't do nearly what nearby Flossmoor had done with its, or Olympia Fields South. You want to talk about where it "ranks" in Chicagoland, I'll name a host of courses within miles that are far superior to it. Both courses at Olympia, Flossmoor, Calumet and Beverly for a starting five. And they're all on pretty much the same street! If one moves to the western suburbs, Butterfield, Butler, Glen Oak, LaGrange are all better. The number one and number 3 courses at Medinah are superior. The number 2 course is pretty close to being Rav's equal. River Forest is probably an apt comparison course, because, like Ravisloe, it has a bunch of good holes, several snoozers and three junk jobs. Oak Park is a better golf course. Naperville is better than Rav. Black Sheep, also by Esler, is vastly better than Rav. Want me to keep going? Let's travel north and northwest. Here's an off-the-top-of-my-head list of better courses:
Ivanhoe
Knollwood
North Shore
Exmoor
Old Elm
Skokie
Evanston
Bob O'Link
Sunset Ridge
Briarwood
I'd say that Bryn Mawr is comparable to Ravisloe, but would probably vault past it if the members would cut down some darned trees. I haven't played Northmoor.
Among public courses that are better, I'd include Cog Hill #4, Big Run, Pine Meadow, Orchard Valley. As I mentioned before, I haven't played Thunderhawk or Shepherd's Crook, so I can't really compare. So, I don't know if I came up with thirty better courses pretty much off the top of my head, but pretty close.
Bottom line, just because you put some minimalist fluorishes and native grass eye candy on the okay bones of a golf course, it doesn't become a masterpiece of some sort. There is a handful of holes at Ravisloe that really work, particularly at the northwest nook of the property, but it's just a run of the mill track. If it were that much better, why would everybody leave Ravisloe and go to Idlewild?
Well, maybe because a lot of people (not me) think Idy is better.
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I never said it was a masterpiece. Not sure there even is one in the area if Doak 9 or 10 is the standard. And you make a good point about what a good restoration/renovation can do. Perhaps there's just so many overgrown penal courses in the area that it's a refreshing diversion. Disagree about Ivanhoe and I'd have to get back out to Sunset Ridge and Oak Park to judge fairly. Flossmoor is one of the likely candidates I have yet to see. And obviously places like Medinah and Butler are "better" although I think your average 15 hdcp would have more fun at Ravisloe day in and day out...I'm playing Shepherd's Crook today and will try to take some pix. I think you'd really like it although it's a pretty long trek up to Zion...
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Three small edits to my earlier post:
First, Golfweek listed the top 15 you can play in Illinois and it didn't list Ravisloe. Five of the courses listed are outside the Chicago area, so there's ten that Golfweek thinks are better, unless they simply forgot to switch Rav to the public column, which is possible I guess.
Second, I neglected to mention the Glen Club as a better track than Ravisloe.
Finally, I have nothing "against" Ravisloe. I lived in the area for nearly 20 years and played it at least forty times. I always enjoyed the experience, both before and after renovation. To me, it was a great members course because it had a bunch of great members, including many charter members of that mythical group of community leaders that I dubbed, "The Jews that Booze". God's people, in my judgment. Some great friends hearts got broken when they left, in small tribe fashion, to the inferior Idlewild, just two miles or so to the southeast.
All good things must end, apparently, because I have no reason to return to Ravisloe, since all my buddies are gone.
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For eighty-five years or so, Ravisloe was your typical, flat, overtreed and well-manicured Chicago private club. Then David Esler came in and put some minimalist touches on the course, cut down a minimal amount of trees, restored lost bunkers, planted native grasses and restored some of the charming touches that had been lost over the years. But it was still a pretty decent private country club course, IMHO. The restoration didn't do nearly what nearby Flossmoor had done with its, or Olympia Fields South. You want to talk about where it "ranks" in Chicagoland, I'll name a host of courses within miles that are far superior to it. Both courses at Olympia, Flossmoor, Calumet and Beverly for a starting five. And they're all on pretty much the same street! If one moves to the western suburbs, Butterfield, Butler, Glen Oak, LaGrange are all better. The number one and number 3 courses at Medinah are superior. The number 2 course is pretty close to being Rav's equal. River Forest is probably an apt comparison course, because, like Ravisloe, it has a bunch of good holes, several snoozers and three junk jobs. Oak Park is a better golf course. Naperville is better than Rav. Black Sheep, also by Esler, is vastly better than Rav. Want me to keep going? Let's travel north and northwest. Here's an off-the-top-of-my-head list of better courses:
Ivanhoe
Knollwood
North Shore
Exmoor
Old Elm
Skokie
Evanston
Bob O'Link
Sunset Ridge
I'd say that Bryn Mawr is comparable to Ravisloe, but would probably vault past it if the members would cut down some darned trees. I haven't played Northmoor.
Among public courses that are better, I'd include Cog Hill #4, Big Run, Pine Meadow, Orchard Valley. As I mentioned before, I haven't played Thunderhawk or Shepherd's Crook, so I can't really compare. So, I don't know if I came up with thirty better courses pretty much off the top of my head, but pretty close.
Bottom line, just because you put some minimalist fluorishes and native grass eye candy on the okay bones of a golf course, it doesn't become a masterpiece of some sort. There is a handful of holes at Ravisloe that really work, particularly at the northwest nook of the property, but it's just a run of the mill track. If it were that much better, why would everybody leave Ravisloe and go to Idlewild?
Well, maybe because a lot of people (not me) think Idy is better.
Just to add to the list of better courses in the near area- Edgewood Valley, Hinsdale, Midlothian, and Kankakee Elks. Rav is certainly fun but hard to put in the top 25 in Chicago in my book.
Jack
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Jud:
Thanks for starting this photo tour, looking at the photos I'm picking up little nuances on the course that I forgot were there. It was a shame for the membership that this course went public, but an absolute plus for the public duffer living in a town with a limited amount of reasonably priced options. I'd rather play Ravisloe three times than Cog #4. Only draw back is its distance from downtown.
The course has a great mix of holes:
Par 3's - a couple big tests (7 and 11) combined with the shorter holes that have great green sites (4, 6 and 15)
Short Par 4's - 1 may be a mundane hole, but 5, 16, 17 and 18 provide plenty of interest (wish there was a little more room around the 5th because that corner feels a bit cramped)
Long Par 4's - my two favorites are 9 and 10, a great back to back combo that play in a line and set a great pace for the start of the back
Par 5's - 2 and 3 back to back provide as much diversity in three shot holes as you can find, with two being nigh unreachable and three being in range but with great defenses around the green. 13 is a fun hole, but had some conditioning issues last year.
The 8th is probably the hole that represents the course as a whole the best. The playing corridor is very wide, but to end up in the best spot to approach the green (the right) you have to challenge a series of fairway bunkers. Once in the fairway, you're left befuddled by the bunkers short of the green that hide the run up area. If you're coming in from the left, you probably have to negotiate the left side bunkers, from where an up and down is no picnic. Its a hole (and a course) where picking the right line provides a tremendous benefit, but a miss is only punished by a harder shot (as opposed to a lost ball or unplayable lie).
To respond to a couple of Terry's comments, I think Ravisloe is well worth the effort to play, and would play it over the likes of Big Run and most of the west side public's mentioned. I think Pine Meadow is a better test of golf, but Ravisloe is a more interesting golf course. Shepherd's Crook and Highlands of Elgin would be my choice over Ravisloe, but there aren't many other publics I'd play in Chicago first.
To summarize, its a fun, short, cheap option with a great set of "country club" greens and enough variety to keep your interest up throughout the round. I don't think its the best public in the area, but its certainly better than a lot of its competitors. I'd love to hear Terry's take after a replay, and if you need to add a couple of drinking buddies into the mix to make your return feel like old times, I've got a couple of takers.
Last point - I think the comparisons should be made to other publics in Chicago. As a private club, it didn't crack the top tiers. As a daily fee, its top notch.
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#12
400 Yard Par 4
A solid 2-shotter. The bunkers are a pretty good poke to reach off the tee (240ish?). But if you don't challenge them on the right side it leaves a fairly long approach and/or an odd angle. On your second shot long is dead and left isn't much better.
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Sven,
I agree that the public courses are the right comparison and we're in agreement on the three that I'd seek out on a regular basis. I disagree that the Glen Club's a better course, even if it weren't twice the price. Yes you can play it from 7150 if that's your cup of tea and it's a pretty impressive feat of engineering given that it was an airfield. But compared to the set of greens at the Rav, the Glen Club's look as if they rolled right off the CAD printer at FAZ HQ.
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#13
550 Yard Par 5
A three shotter for all but the biggest hitters, although the green will accept a running shot if you can dodge the bunkering. A fun driving hole as you can let 'er rip without much penalty other than the bunkers to the right.. The cross bunkers make the layup more interesting.
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#14
410 Yard Par 4
This is the only hole that I'll grant falls into Terry's ho hum category. Yet another 400ish par 4. The creek is attractive but isn't in play unless you cold top your tee shot and the green is one of the more pedestrian on the course. It would have been nice if Esler could have mixed a couple really long par 4's in, but I doubt that the constraints of the property would have allowed it.
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#15
146 Yard Par 3
Another really good short par 3. Plays a bit uphill, is very well bunkered and there's a large ridge running through the green that makes the effective target for a birdie quite small, particularly if the pin is on the left.
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Jud:
Great tour so far. I really like the look of #13, as it appears to do something that few par 5s accomplish -- provides for a thoughtful second-shot layup for those not going at the green. So few par 5s make the player think carefully about the layup; this one looks like it does. Does it play that way?
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Jud:
Great tour so far. I really like the look of #13, as it appears to do something that few par 5s accomplish -- provides for a thoughtful second-shot layup for those not going at the green. So few par 5s make the player think carefully about the layup; this one looks like it does. Does it play that way?
Good call. 13 is clearly the "best in class" at the Rav. A true three-shotter and you do have to think about the layup, as you mention. This also happens to be the most beautiful nook on the golf course, without any street traffic or improved property to deal with.
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Jud:
Thanks for posting your pictures of "Rav."
I tend to agree that while the course isn't even in the same universe as many of the top tier and 2nd tier private courses in Chicago, it's now a very nice public course option. However, I think that probably speaks to the general lack of strategic public golf course architecture in the greater Chicagoland area. Ravisloe is a nice place to spend an afternoon, but I don't find it that interesting. I like #15 probably the best, followed by #4, #13, and (I'm drawing a blank now, it's the shorter par-4 with the green that slopes away from the player) I think #16.
To say the course is more interesting or better than Cog Hill #4 is a stretch...I'm not a huge fan of the work done there, but it's still a better golf course than Ravisloe. I'd proabably put at least #4, Pine Meadow, Shepherd's Crook, Highlands of Elgin, Thunderhawk ahead of Ravisloe.
Then again, Ravisloe is so far south of the city sometimes its worth just driving the extra 45 min to South Bend to play the Warren Course for half as much and twice as fast. :)
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Thanks for the pictures Jud! It looks like a pretty neat place!
Mark
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I really enjoy the golf course itself. It's a fun place to play, and in my experience it has generally been uncrowded, though I don't always play at peak times. Good practice facility. Some holes are a bit boring, but there's enough interesting things going on there to make for a fun round.
How is the conditioning been for the last year or so? I didn't make it down there last year, in part because I felt I was treated very poorly by one employee and vowed not to go back for a while. Now that I realize it's only a few blocks from Flossmoor Station Brewing, I made need to finally get over it and head down there for a round.
The weird thing is that I've played there probably six times. In those six rounds, I've birdied the third hole five of six times, and bogeyed (or worse) the fourth hole five of six times. I have roughly the same scoring average on each hole, despite one being a 490 yard par five and the other being a 180 yard par three.
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Bill,
The conditioning has been pretty good. Last year was obviously a very tough year for most courses in the area and the Rav had some issues as well, but not as bad as some area courses. But by public course standards, it's generally in pretty decent shape. And Flossmoor Station is the only good microbrewery in the area IMO!
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Bill,
The conditioning has been pretty good. Last year was obviously a very tough year for most courses in the area and the Rav had some issues as well, but not as bad as some area courses. But by public course standards, it's generally in pretty decent shape. And Flossmoor Station is the only good microbrewery in the area IMO!
Flossmoor station is an awesome place to have a beer, as it's located in the town's old train station. But Rav is also probably 15 min from 3Floyds too, and they're not so bad! :)
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REALLY?!! ROAD TRIP!! sounds like a good GCA outing!
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REALLY?!! ROAD TRIP!! sounds like a good GCA outing!
I'd be up for doing this in almost any/every direction this year. Flossmoor is a perfect place to stop after a round in this area. I was just down at Balmoral Woods, and it's really easy jaunt to 3 Floyd's after a round there, and with their beer becoming nearly impossible to find in the city, I make sure to pick up a case or two whenever I'm there. Lake Bluff Brewing just opened down the road from Pine Meadow and other courses in that area. And I still haven't been to the Two Brothers brewery in Warrenville, and lord knows there are enough places out there to play.
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I have played Rav since the 1970's. I think both Jud and Terry have overstated their respective positions. All in all it is a fine place to play and a good value in the Chicago market.
First, Pat, if you can drive to South Bend in only 45 minutes longer than it takes to get to Flossmoor you should quit banking and join the NASCAR circuit. If you are talking about a course within easy distance of the Chicago loop, they are in different markets.
As to the course, it was well described. It benefitted greatly from Dave Elser's sympathetic renovation which improved the look of the features, removed numerous trees, and restored a lot of choices and therefore strategy. This helped elevate its position. Back in the 70's and 80's, even among the predominately Jewish clubs, it was questionable whether it was a better course than Idlewild which is only about a mile away. But Idlewild, while retaining great "bones", allowed committees to overtree the course while watching green sizes (and tee sizes) shrink.
In trying to make his case Terry goes too far. I think very few would rank Calumet ahead of Ravisloe. Calumet is a nice course but has no great interest and suffers from many of the problems Terry attributes to Rav. Bry Mawr sits on an even smaller piece of land and has far too many very short par 4's narrowed by trees and defended by cross bunkers. It does have a superior set of par 3's.
As a private, Rav was well in the middle of the pack of the courses below the top echelon in terms of overall architectural interest. It has its share of quirk and is well worth the play but is limited by its terrain and lack of property.
As a public it is a standout because it is so different from most of what is available. It is not as challenging as Cog Hill. I think the Glen Club is a pretty good Fazio and well worth the play. I think Terry overrates Big Run although its elevation changes make it different than most in the area. Haven't played Pine Meadow in awhile; mixed views in large part because I think it is overtreed but well routed and worth playing. I won't comment on all of those mentioned most of which are pretty good. But Ravisloe is different because of the time in which it was built and its continued reflection of that style of architecture. Thus, regardless of the ranking, it is worth playing.
As an aside, perhaps the most interesting green in the immediate area, with my apologies to #3 at OFCC North, is the 6th at Idlewild, although it has suffered from shrinkage. Par 3 that stretches from 180 to back tees about 220? with a lower right side punchbowl which connects up and to the left to a small plateau. Two different concepts connected to each other which cause the hole to play in a materially different way depending on the hole location.
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REALLY?!! ROAD TRIP!! sounds like a good GCA outing!
I'd be up for doing this in almost any/every direction this year. Flossmoor is a perfect place to stop after a round in this area. I was just down at Balmoral Woods, and it's really easy jaunt to 3 Floyd's after a round there, and with their beer becoming nearly impossible to find in the city, I make sure to pick up a case or two whenever I'm there. Lake Bluff Brewing just opened down the road from Pine Meadow and other courses in that area. And I still haven't been to the Two Brothers brewery in Warrenville, and lord knows there are enough places out there to play.
Bill:
Two Brothers is a fun place to visit for a tour and a tasting. As is Half Acre (as you know) and Metropolitan which is about as low-key as a brewery tour I've ever seen; essentially one room with equipment, complete with a "brewery mascot" (a puppy).
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First, Pat, if you can drive to South Bend in only 45 minutes longer than it takes to get to Flossmoor you should quit banking and join the NASCAR circuit. If you are talking about a course within easy distance of the Chicago loop, they are in different markets.
I've thought about it Shelly... :) ;)
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#16
390 Yard Par 4
A strong hole with a fabulous green that's been discussed here previously. You know that stereotypical Ross turtleback green that everyone thinks all his greens resemble but rarely exists in reality? Well this is it. Balls roll off in all four directions, particularly long and left, and one either has a wedge in or runs it on. The slopes are subtle, the pucker factor for the regular is not.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/4j71gy.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2copvfr.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2zf5p1v.jpg)
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#17:
Par 4, 400 Yards
A completely blind tee shot at this point in the match adds some excitement. A good drive over the bunker will catch the slope and give one a mid-iron in.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/rj4601.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2e3bkex.jpg)
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#18
355 Yard Par 4
While not the stern finisher many look for, this hole isn't an easy par either. One can play for position out to the right or challenge the left side in order to have a wedge in. A very well bunkered green, with the right rear bunker being particularly steep and deep.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/16jlssi.jpg)
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2ib2hr4.jpg)
(http://i54.tinypic.com/11j18d2.jpg)
(http://i54.tinypic.com/nl6bfr.jpg)
In conclusion, Ravisloe Country Club offers a unique old-school strategic challenge to a metro Chicago public course market which has plenty of tree-lined parkland courses that are mostly of a type. It's well worth the drive down to Homewood to check it out for anyone who's interested in Ross, Esler or simply an enjoyable game. And you might even finish with enough time and money left over to enjoy a beverage in the equally old-school clubhouse bar.
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fyi-Interactive course map:
http://ravisloecountryclub.com/golf/proto/ravisloecountryclub/course/course_tour.htm
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Jud
Thanks again. Ravisloe looks very solid start to finish if a bit samey here and there. Its tough to get something wonderful out of a flat property. Still, I wouldn't shy away from a game there.
Ciao
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Sean,
With few exceptions, flat pretty much describes the entire area.
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Jud:
Thanks for the pictures of the last few holes.
I like that (aiming?) bunker in the hill on 17 a lot.
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Thanks for the photo tour Jud! I always wanted to put one together for Ravisloe but never got around to it. I also wasn't sure how well the course would photograph. Your pictures are good but, as usual, don't capture a lot of the interest of the course.
The first time I played the course was shortly after it first opened as a public. The place still felt like a private club: it was rarely busy and the conditioning was still country club-like. It has lost some of that feel over the past couple years and conditioning has taken a little bit of a hit, but all-in-all, I think Ravisloe is one of the most enjoyable public courses in Chicagoland. I think it's a little over priced based on their rack-rate, but their $38 twilight rate is one of the best deals in Chicago.
As has been mentioned, the course is not long at all. However, if I never looked at the scorecard and was asked how long the course was, I would probably overestimate by 200-300 yards. By no means is it long, but it definitely plays longer than 6,300 yards. The par 70 obviously has something to do with that.
I also really like the quirk of the course. You get back-to-back par 5s and par 3s within the first seven holes, which creates a fun start. And the course is a fantastic walk.
Some of my favorite holes:
#3 – The second of back-to-back par 5s early in the round. Plays in the opposite direction as the second. You play up and over a ridge on the drive, with the landing area blind. The property line on the right will make most people bail out left, where some mounding complicates your second if you fail to hit the fairway. If you poke a drive (and the hole isn’t playing into the wind) you might have a shot at getting home in two. The problem is if you get past the hole at any point, you’re pretty much screwed. The third has probably my favorite green on the course: severely sloped back to front with all sorts of neat tier-ing and undulation.
#5 – Great short par 4 with plenty of options. You could conceivably hit anything from driver to 6-7 iron off the tee. Slight dogleg right with a bunker complex directly in the ideal landing area, with a patch of fairway short and left, and another past it. I usually hit a hybrid up the left and stay behind the bunker complex, leaving no more than 100-120 yards in. You could also blast a driver with a fade right down in front of the green. Another great green complex with a fantastic shelf in the back right.
#8 – Sven already explained the eighth, so there isn’t a whole lot to add. Great look from the tee: play over the bunkers crossing into the fairway from the right to leave the optimal line into the green (you can’t see the landing area), or play out to the left where there is plenty of fairway but results in a poor angle requiring a shot over the greenside bunkers.
#12 – Love the centerline bunker that really complicates/makes you think on the drive. Do you challenge the bunker to get a shorter club into the tough green or do you lay back and take your changes with a mid-iron? I really like the cross bunkers that play with depth perception and the green is a lot of fun. Miss the green by a yard left and you’re ball will end up 10 feet below the green on the 13th tee box. NOTE: I played last weekend and they are growing out the fairway to the left of the centerline bunker, turning it into a left fairway bunker. I was very disappointed when I saw this as the centerline aspect of the bunker really made the hole…
#13 – Another contender for my favorite hole on the course. Par 5. Love the uphill tee shot requiring you to hug the bunkers on the inside of the dogleg to get the best look at the green. If you bail out left, you’ll have trouble getting to the green in regulation as some mature trees will block you out. Sitting in the middle of the fairway at the top of the hill reveals what I think is the best view on the course with the remainder of the 13th unfolding before you. Another fun green complex and bunkers that complicates the layup.
#16 – Shorter par 4 where the green really makes the hole. Upside-down bowl that repels any shots at the edges of the green. Great look from the slightly elevated tee.
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George:
That's annoying to hear about #12. That kind of kills the hole to be honest. The only reason I see why they would reduce the fairway is to lower maintenence costs as there is plently of room to the left of that hole.
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George:
That's annoying to hear about #12. That kind of kills the hole to be honest. The only reason I see why they would reduce the fairway is to lower maintenence costs as there is plently of room to the left of that hole.
Yeah, it definitely appears to be a budget thing. They also appear to be struggling with the maintenance of the grass faces of all those nicely renovated bunkers...
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George:
That's annoying to hear about #12. That kind of kills the hole to be honest. The only reason I see why they would reduce the fairway is to lower maintenence costs as there is plently of room to the left of that hole.
Yeah, it definitely appears to be a budget thing. They also appear to be struggling with the maintenance of the grass faces of all those nicely renovated bunkers...
That's interesting as they hired a new super this year...a young guy that used to be a Lake Shore CC (I think). I suppose when you're paying the mortgage on a $3MM or $4MM property with a sizeable maintenance/expense budget while waiting for the village and economy to turn around to let you develop the land into Condos architectural interest goes out the window....
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Bummer. I didn't notice it 10 days ago. They must be struggling financially as the tee sheet's rarely filled. Condos? what happened to Mr. Green Space? That would suck....
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Bummer. I didn't notice it 10 days ago. They must be struggling financially as the tee sheet's rarely filled. Condos? what happened to Mr. Green Space? That would suck....
Jud,
In my experience with real estate developers, the only "green space" that they care about is in their wallet. :)
Obviously, I'd rather the land remain a golf course. But the Dr. (who is from Morton Grove I believe, no where near Ravisloe) who bought the place out of BK is probably keen on keeping it as a golf course for the time being while running a loss, waiting for the time when the market turns around and he can develop the property into homes/condos/parking/dog & cat hospitals. It's not the worst place for a mixed use development...hell they have their own train station with trains running right into the city.
Hate to be realistic, but I'd give Ravisloe another 5 years as a golf course. :-\
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#3 – The second of back-to-back par 5s early in the round. Plays in the opposite direction as the second. You play up and over a ridge on the drive, with the landing area blind. The property line on the right will make most people bail out left, where some mounding complicates your second if you fail to hit the fairway. If you poke a drive (and the hole isn’t playing into the wind) you might have a shot at getting home in two. The problem is if you get past the hole at any point, you’re pretty much screwed. The third has probably my favorite green on the course: severely sloped back to front with all sorts of neat tier-ing and undulation.
I like this hole a lot, probably because as I mentioned before, I've birdied it five of the six times I've played it. And that's from getting there in two, getting up and down from the front left bunker, and knocking it to 10 feet on a third shot wedge. One thing I love about the green is that with the slope, it will accept a long iron or hybrid (I've hit anything from 3-wood to 6-iron in), but it really makes an approach wedge difficult, especially with today's groove and ball technology. Almost any spin at all and you can see your ball spin down to the front, though there is the slightest ridge in the middle that will stop your ball if it doesn't have enough momentum. Honestly, if I found myself 85-100 yards out, I'd probably punch a pitching wedge or even a 9-iron for the approach. It would be tough to keep my 54 degree wedge on the green.
#12 – Love the centerline bunker that really complicates/makes you think on the drive. Do you challenge the bunker to get a shorter club into the tough green or do you lay back and take your changes with a mid-iron? I really like the cross bunkers that play with depth perception and the green is a lot of fun. Miss the green by a yard left and you’re ball will end up 10 feet below the green on the 13th tee box. NOTE: I played last weekend and they are growing out the fairway to the left of the centerline bunker, turning it into a left fairway bunker. I was very disappointed when I saw this as the centerline aspect of the bunker really made the hole…
Man, that's too bad. I've always approached that bunker the same way - go right at it. If I hit it that straight, then oh well, and I've been in it once or twice. But the greater likelihood is that I'm either going to push it a bit or turn it over a bit, and I'll "miss" to one side or the other. Really like that green as well.
#13 – Another contender for my favorite hole on the course. Par 5. Love the uphill tee shot requiring you to hug the bunkers on the inside of the dogleg to get the best look at the green. If you bail out left, you’ll have trouble getting to the green in regulation as some mature trees will block you out. Sitting in the middle of the fairway at the top of the hill reveals what I think is the best view on the course with the remainder of the 13th unfolding before you. Another fun green complex and bunkers that complicates the layup.
My vote for prettiest hole on the course. I really like the look of the trees far in the background off the tee, and it just feels like a hole where I can let the shaft out a bit, take the club back a little outside, and take a big swing at a high fade. The right to left slope of the fairway at that point plays into that as well. If you can play a layup to a good spot, it's one of the flatter greens on the course, so it allows the player a chance to knock one tight.
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I recently played golf with new Minnesotan Pat Craig at my fairly modest club, albeit one with a fun course.
He compared it to a Ravisloe with more elevation change.
I've never played Rav, but these pictures make me realize I would like to. And that I'm cool with having my course (one that is 90-plus years old, has cool greens complexes and is more about positioning than power) compared with Rav.
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Great photo tour. Bunkering looks solid and the green contours do as well. Nice work for what looks to be a flat site. I'll have to tee it there next summer. Has the tee sheet picked up?
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Recent article by Tim Cronin in CDG Magazine:
http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/Golfweek-Custom-Media/cdga_aug-2014/2014081101/#14
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Steve,
Nice post. Doesn't look like a chainsaw is in the plans.
Tim,
Great write up
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Actually played out here today. All summer the greens were in rough shape running at about a 9 at best. Today all of a sudden they finally rolled them and they were at about a 10.5 and looked amazing.
Now is the time to play out here. I'm not sure why it takes all year from them to get the greens rolling well but they were great today.
It's a nice track when the greens are good. Great bunkering and staying below the hole on some holes is essential.
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Rav was one of my first choices to play in the Chicago area, and having it be accessible by train made it even better. The only gripe I had with the course were the greens, as they never seemed to bother getting them to roll well, as Mike said. But glad to hear they do cut them occasionally.
Great fun track, and really tests all types of golfers with the requirements of placement on tee shots as well as approaches. If you have ever been above the hole on 3, you will quickly begin to do everything you can to stay below the hole from then on.
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On a historical note, I've now found repeated references to Ravisloe having 27 holes at one point. The March 1910 The American Golfer notes the plans for changes to the course, including adding an additional 9 inside the existing 18 (if you look at an aerial of the course, there do appear to be some "golf" features laying in the small pocket of land just north of the clubhouse). The December 1917 edition of the same magazine unequivocally states that Ravisloe had 27 holes, as do the 1916, 1917, 1920 and 1921 Annual Guides.
Sven
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Just a bump, any work with tree removal? How is the course doing?
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Course is doing quite well. Maintenance practices have slipped a bit, but it's in pretty good shape for a public. Tree removal could be better but not worth complaining about. Overall, this is a big success story, as compared to the private club struggles in that area.
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Our very own Dan Moore is playing in the IL State Senior Am at Ravisloe right now. Hopefully he can give us an update on the course after the tournament. He should score well if he isn't too distracted looking for photo opportunities and doing on-the-ground research for his book. If he stumbles across an interesting piece of land that might have been an original green site, he might just WD himself and go get his camera and shovel. Play well Dan!
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I question whether Highlands of Elgin is a better course. Although a great public facility and a fine addition to the area's offerings, to me the back nine doesn't live up to the promise of the front. We may have to review this discussion once we all get a look at Esler's redo of Mount Prospect, from what I hear...
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I question whether Highlands of Elgin is a better course. Although a great public facility and a fine addition to the area's offerings, to me the back nine doesn't live up to the promise of the front. We may have to review this discussion once we all get a look at Esler's redo of Mount Prospect, from what I hear...
Give the courses equal conditioning, and I'll take Ravisloe in that battle. In fairness, I only played it when Private, but after Esler's work there, while it was still conditioned well (compared to reports I've heard since), I think Ravisloe offers a more enjoyable experience. Highlands of Elgin is a very good public course, and in very good condition, but the odd walks from green to tee on the back 9, the flow of reachable par 5, drivable par 4, reachable par 5, and the less inspiring finish starting with the 15th (par 3 surrounded by water) would have me favoring Ravisloe layout.
I know I'm in a minority, but I also thought Bowes Creek was a more pleasant walk, and a slightly favorable course to Highlands of Elgin, but not enough to justify paying $99 vs $44 to walk.
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Jud, thanks for posting these photos and your commentary. I went there over Labor Day weekend and it was my first playing Ravisloe. I only got in 8 holes because I had to leave due to a family emergency, but I really enjoyed the way the holes were shaped. It's definitely a placement course and I had some angles into some of these holes that were not ideal. I enjoyed looking at the pictures from holes 9 - 18 since I didn't get to play them. My only gripe was that the greens were in horrible shape.
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I played there today in the Senior Am, tho not as well as Mr. Moore (four sixes on the card, including 3 stupid three putts on the back nine!). When the greens are in this kind of shape, Ravisloe is just as good a public option as Highlands imo. Problem is, they don't cut them like this on a regular basis.
I don't think the course feels constricted by trees at all (that drive I blocked way right on #1 deserved to be in the jungle, tho it was a sweet up and down after punching out), and there are definitely some holes out there where you have to think about what kind of shot you want to hit. I played with a really good player today, and when he missed the fairways he had tree trouble, but us little guys who bunt it around find the course very playable -- especially when you feel like you have a chance to make a putt. When the greens are running at 8, and filled with ball marks that aren't repaired, it's not a very enjoyable walk in the park...
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Saw this pop up in the thread and figured I might as well give my home course some love. A couple updates to respond to comments/questions above.
No real tree changes have taken place in the past 2-3 years that change any of the holes. Some aggressive trimming would be nice, but as opposed to some other 'small' or 'short' courses in the area there aren't any holes where overgrown trees jump out as a real problem. No double hazard instances (like the trees left of the green and over the bunker on Cog Hill Dubs (4) which I hate. They block you on the left side of the approach in 2 to the par 5 #2, and right side of the drive on par 5 #3, but I think they add some interest and force a shaped shot.
As far as the greens, based on 5 years or so of regular play, including a year when it was private, if you want the best experience at Rav go in the fall when it cools down (and hopefully isn't too wet) and play in the morning after they mow. The greens have so much poa that they can't keep them short and rock hard when it's hot. In the fall before aeration gives them the ability to keep them a little faster. And in the morning the poa is less bumpy.
As far as it's rank in Chicago...for the price to walk and the fun and conditioning for a public course I don't think it can be beat. I would have always ranked Dubs ahead of it until playing after Rees redid it, and honestly he made it so you can't miss anywhere around the greens anymore. I had much less fun. Is it better...probably...but for $150 you won't find me there. I'll agree with the judge about Pine Meadow (love that place) Glen Club (also too expensive but I'd like to play it all the time) Thunderhawk (great test and usually great conditioning...can we move it closer? Does it count as Chicago?), and Orchard Valley. I'd also add Stonewall Orchard in Grayslake although it's not for everyone. But I put Rav ahead of Bowes Creek (too many of the same shots...we played 36 and I think I hit 2 hybrid off the tee 25 times...) and many of the other public options. I wish Chicago had a dead set winner for best public course that could bring in a championship, but it doesn't really. Until it does you can find me at Rav.
Who knows how to kill the development plans for the old American Steel site and make it a golf course ala Ferry Point instead??[size=78%] [/size]
[/size][size=78%]- PJ[/size]
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I had the great pleasure of playing Ravisloe this past weekend. I had a beautiful day and was lucky enough to get paired with two great locals. I can't tell you how much that adds to one's first experience on a solid course. I didn't know what to expect coming into the course and it blew me away how good it was. Since it had been a very long weekend I tried to enjoy the nice weather and look at the course in more of a macro way. However I kept writing down on the scorecard, really good hole, hole after hole. It was the best Ross bunker iteration I have seen IMO (non sand blown out type, not fair to compare). The standout holes for me were #3, #4, #5, #8, #9, #10-#13, #15, and #18. I'm planning on playing 54 holes here next June to make sure that I haven't lost my mind. I give the course a 7 and with tree removal it could go higher. The course makes the most out of the land and there is enough little blind shots that gives the average non GCAer some nice quirk at an introductory level. With 8 and 9 as examples. The fairway bunkers on 9 blend in great with the dip and slight up-slope from 9 tee from my memory. Also the course is very easy to walk for people in their later years, which is something that gets overlooked IMO.
I'm told the course is inconsistently maintained, it was in good shape for me, greens rolled well, little softer then I'd like. My local playing partner thought $50 in October was overpriced for the course :o , I guess people like playing in 85 deg weather and 90% humidity ::) . I know if Arble played Ravisloe he would say ''It's a good Nic". We played in 3:15 thanks to their local knowledge.. I've read this thread and many talk about having faster speeds, but I think Green firmness is what should be more sought after.
I had the privilege of meeting the owner in the halfway house. Very nice man, he proceeded to tell me he wanted to plant more trees to separate the holes (oh NO!) I told him the greens would do better with more tree removal. I hope some locals can talk tree removal with this nice gentlemen and change his mind.
After playing Mt Prospect 3 days before, I'm very impressed with Esler. How does one donate to the Esler Society?? :D
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I went back and looked at the pix after completely forgetting about this course. I am still impressed...most espcially with the visual width at the greens. The bunker spreading making a possible target (many of the greens are obscured) look far wider than may be the case. By spreading I mean the bunkers seem to push away from greens rather than the usual wrap around the greens. I have noticed this style at a few places recently. Does anybody know who really pushes this style of green sites?
Ciao
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No Laying Up with a 'crash course' video profile of Ravisloe:
https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1174004899392237568 (https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1174004899392237568)
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No Laying Up with a 'crash course' video profile of Ravisloe:
https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1174004899392237568 (https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1174004899392237568)
Cool video! Great to see Rav getting some love.
"350 trees coming down"!!! Has this happened yet?
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No Laying Up with a 'crash course' video profile of Ravisloe:
https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1174004899392237568 (https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1174004899392237568)
Cool video! Great to see Rav getting some love.
"350 trees coming down"!!! Has this happened yet?
Right after he says 350 trees will be coming down, he states they will be replaced with different species. I remember an email from a few years ago stating that part of ongoing maintenance would be to replace dead trees and also plant new ones. Sounds like the current owner is a big fan of open spaces and a really big fan of trees, which is why he bought the property.
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At almost 6400 yds this course might be perfect for an LPGA event. Does the LPGA play an event near Chicago?
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Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it was in pretty rough shape the last time I played in in July. Don’t think I’ll be playing that for a while. Owner way overpaid for the property (3MM). Hard to make it work at those levels.
No Laying Up with a 'crash course' video profile of Ravisloe:
https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1174004899392237568 (https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1174004899392237568)
Cool video! Great to see Rav getting some love.
"350 trees coming down"!!! Has this happened yet?
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Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it was in pretty rough shape the last time I played in in July. Don’t think I’ll be playing that for a while. Owner way overpaid for the property (3MM). Hard to make it work at those levels.
So can anyone else tell us about the back nine?
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No Laying Up with a 'crash course' video profile of Ravisloe:
https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1174004899392237568 (https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1174004899392237568)
Cool video! Great to see Rav getting some love.
"350 trees coming down"!!! Has this happened yet?
Right after he says 350 trees will be coming down, he states they will be replaced with different species. I remember an email from a few years ago stating that part of ongoing maintenance would be to replace dead trees and also plant new ones. Sounds like the current owner is a big fan of open spaces and a really big fan of trees, which is why he bought the property.
I thought that I remembered hearing that the owner also owns a tree farm (or nursery, etc). However, very hazy on this.
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https://thefriedegg.com/ravisloe-country-club-review-changes-trees/ (https://thefriedegg.com/ravisloe-country-club-review-changes-trees/)
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The frustrating part is that the owner sounds like a very nice guy. He has experts telling him what to do and he just does the opposite. I thought that I remember reading that besides being a vet, he also owned a tree nursery and was excited to be able to leverage that to continue to beautify the course.