Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Steve_Roths on April 26, 2011, 10:20:56 AM
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I was just thinking about this earlier today, but has the expansion of Bandon's courses caused Sandpines to fall off our radar. I remember when Bandon got going a lot of folks would hit Sandpines on the way down. It seems like Bandon has expanded enough to make folks not need a diversion.
I am sure Bend's growth affected this a bit as well.
Also, off topic a bit but I know there was talk of two more courses out at Bandon. One down in town by Gil Hanse. The other one I am trying to remember, but is it speculated to be a nine hole course somewhere out by Old Mac?
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I was just thinking about this earlier today, but has the expansion of Bandon's courses caused Sandpines to fall off our radar. I remember when Bandon got going a lot of folks would hit Sandpines on the way down. It seems like Bandon has expanded enough to make folks not need a diversion.
Yes.
In 2004, when my friends and I were talking of going to Bandon, Sandpines was on our radar. When all of us finally went in 2010, Bandon was the only place we wanted to go.
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Who ever said Sand Pines was on our radar? ;)
Why anybody would skip a round on a top 50 golf course to play a top 550 golf course is baffling. It is good to have played there to participate in the discussion of a missed opportunity though. The par 3 course is a 13 holer designed by C&C, just south of BT.
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I still see value in Bandon Crossings. I think of it everyday considering it is where I purchased my umbrella.
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Sandpines fell off the radar the day Tommy N. quit this site. He was the only reason anyone mentioned it anymore. It ceased being a factor on trips to Bandon by the time Bandon Trails opened, if not sooner.
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Sandpines fell off the radar the day Tommy N. quit this site. He was the only reason anyone mentioned it anymore. It ceased being a factor on trips to Bandon by the time Bandon Trails opened, if not sooner.
He certainly didn't bring it up to sing the praises.
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My last visit to Bandon was the first time I learned it's faster to go to Drain, south of Eugene, before heading west to 101 via Hwy 38. I used to go west at Eugene on Hwy 126 which brings you right to Sandpines in Florence.
Now Sandpines is literally as well as figuratively off the radar!
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Sand Pines os off the radar because it is a very poor course. Bandon Dunes would have brought life and more play to it otherwise.
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It looks like there is a 2nd course in Florence called Rhodo Dunes/ Ocean Dunes. Has anyone played this?
Its looks pretty darn tight on most holes.
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It looks like there is a 2nd course in Florence called Rhodo Dunes/ Ocean Dunes. Has anyone played this?
Its looks pretty darn tight on most holes.
I haven't played it, but you are correct about it being tight. Many on here have said they prefer it over Sandpines even though it is short and tight. It is owned by Oregon GCA Bill Robinson.
I don't recall The Emperor promoting Sandpines. I suspect Dugger's implication that he did the opposite is more likely correct.
Mucci was a Sandpines promoter.
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... One down in town by Gil Hanse. ...
By this one, do you mean Bandon Crossings by Oregon GCA extraordinaire Dan Hixson?
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It looks like there is a 2nd course in Florence called Rhodo Dunes/ Ocean Dunes. Has anyone played this?
Its looks pretty darn tight on most holes.
I haven't played it, but you are correct about it being tight. Many on here have said they prefer it over Sandpines even though it is short and tight. It is owned by Oregon GCA Bill Robinson.
I don't recall The Emperor promoting Sandpines. I suspect Dugger's implication that he did the opposite is more likely correct.
Mucci was a Sandpines promoter.
I recall Tommy N being very critical of SandPines as well.
Perhaps my next trip over to the coast I'll give it a look see as well as this one. Ideally, I'd love to spend a week at the resort, but my wallet couldn't support that so I'll have to seek out other alternatives. ;)
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As a Portlander I used to go to Sandpines on extended weekends if the weather was passable. It certainly beat out playing mudgolf in Potrland during the winter. I stopped going there when Bandon opened. When our group started going to Bandon, a number would stop and play Sandpines on the way because it broke up the day and allowed us to leave Portland a bit later in the morning (for Bandon I'm out the door at 5:30). They don't stop at Sandpines anymore. But once the summer rates kick in at Bandon, Sandpines becomes much more tolerable for golfers on a budget.
The original post is probably right. If you go to Bandon you will probably want to play all four courses. Unless you have a week to play with, Sandpines becomes the neglected stepdaughter of oregon coastal resorts.
I haven't played Ocean Dunes since it was a 9 holer named Rhododunes
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It looks like there is a 2nd course in Florence called Rhodo Dunes/ Ocean Dunes. Has anyone played this?
Its looks pretty darn tight on most holes.
I haven't played it, but you are correct about it being tight. Many on here have said they prefer it over Sandpines even though it is short and tight. It is owned by Oregon GCA Bill Robinson.
I don't recall The Emperor promoting Sandpines. I suspect Dugger's implication that he did the opposite is more likely correct.
Mucci was a Sandpines promoter.
It would be charitable to say Tommyknockers HATES Sandpines!
I don't remember Pat Mucci on Sandpines, but he was very high on Tokatee, which is one my favorites up there on the Mackenzie Pass.
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Sandpines may be an opportunity lost but it is not a poor course. It was once ranked the number 1 public course in the country under $50.
What to me is interesting to think about is if Rees was given that property post Bandon, how much different it would be....
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I have stopped in a few times to see Ocean dunes in Florence.
Last fall I made a trip back up to Astoria and Gearhart links to check out the very unusual routing through the dunes and marvel at the way guys were playing around with the dunes landscape years ago. Funny how times change the expectations of links golf.
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I have stopped in a few times to see Ocean dunes in Florence.
Last fall I made a trip back up to Astoria and Gearhart links to check out the very unusual routing through the dunes and marvel at the way guys were playing around with the dunes landscape years ago. Funny how times change the expectations of links golf.
Hi Jim,
Would you mind expanding on that? Not knowing the courses in hand, it would be great to hear your thoughts on how you perceive dunes to have been used differently over time. I've started a couple of threads on the subject in the past few years.
Thanks,
Ally
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Gents:
I did not mean that Tommy N. liked Sandpines. He detests it -- and even that might not be a strong enough word. My point was, those threads were the last time anybody even talked about the place, and there was always somebody like Sean L. who would say "it is not a poor course" to add fuel to the fire.
Incidentally, Sean, Rees Jones has built a lot of courses post-Bandon Dunes, and his style hasn't changed all that much, as far as I can tell.
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Tom D,
His style may not have changed but to me Sandpines was clearly a mail-in job for Rees. After the success of the Bandon complex, I think perhaps it may have been different, that's is all.
Tommy N has an emotional tie to the area and a dislike for Rees' work in general. Throw in an uninspired effort by Rees and it makes his blood boil. That's Tommy and I appreciate his passion.
I still say it isn't a poor course though. People think its poor relative to the Bandon courses and it is. But people who played it prior to Bandon being built would not have the same negative vigor that they do now, that's all.
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Tom D,
His style may not have changed but to me Sandpines was clearly a mail-in job for Rees. After the success of the Bandon complex, I think perhaps it may have been different, that's is all.
Tommy N has an emotional tie to the area and a dislike for Rees' work in general. Throw in an uninspired effort by Rees and it makes his blood boil. That's Tommy and I appreciate his passion.
I still say it isn't a poor course though. People think its poor relative to the Bandon courses and it is. But people who played it prior to Bandon being built would not have the same negative vigor that they do now, that's all.
Insofar as a course isn't dangerous, offers relatively flat teeing grounds and puttable greens, Sandpines is a good course.
Heck, it even enjoys the luxury of being in a pretty good setting.
But the strategy isn't there, the interest isn't there. Aside from about 2-3 holes, it's a total and utter snoozefest. Hit and walk (or ride.) It doesn't really matter what part of the fairway your ball comes to rest because the flat and round greens receive approach shots like the dart board at your local pub.
The routing is a little schizo. The water holes feel horribly out of place. The grass selection is terrible, fast and firm this course is not.
They would have been far better served to take the money they spent on the big clubhouse and spend it adding some excitement to the course. Too many straight holes with containment mounding lining both sides of the fairway.
And that's not to mention the frustration that just comes with seeing the crude work that was performed there. The property deserved better. It could have been really really good.
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I have stopped in a few times to see Ocean dunes in Florence.
Last fall I made a trip back up to Astoria and Gearhart links to check out the very unusual routing through the dunes and marvel at the way guys were playing around with the dunes landscape years ago. Funny how times change the expectations of links golf.
Hi Jim,
Would you mind expanding on that? Not knowing the courses in hand, it would be great to hear your thoughts on how you perceive dunes to have been used differently over time. I've started a couple of threads on the subject in the past few years.
Thanks,
Ally
Ally,
Here's a link that will show you how truly unique Astoria CC is.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,26002.0.html
They had a huge wind storm since I took the pictures and over half the trees are gone. I think it looks much better now.
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Sandpines is great if you don't care about architecture. However, it is quite possibly the worst design possible given the land it had to work with. I cringe just thinking what is there and what could have been. I would see no reason to make a pit stop at Sandpines on the way to Bandon unless you had no chance of playing any of the Bandon courses on that specific day.
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Tom D,
His style may not have changed but to me Sandpines was clearly a mail-in job for Rees. After the success of the Bandon complex, I think perhaps it may have been different, that's is all.
Tommy N has an emotional tie to the area and a dislike for Rees' work in general. Throw in an uninspired effort by Rees and it makes his blood boil. That's Tommy and I appreciate his passion.
I still say it isn't a poor course though. People think its poor relative to the Bandon courses and it is. But people who played it prior to Bandon being built would not have the same negative vigor that they do now, that's all.
Insofar as a course isn't dangerous, offers relatively flat teeing grounds and puttable greens, Sandpines is a good course.
Heck, it even enjoys the luxury of being in a pretty good setting.
But the strategy isn't there, the interest isn't there. Aside from about 2-3 holes, it's a total and utter snoozefest. Hit and walk (or ride.) It doesn't really matter what part of the fairway your ball comes to rest because the flat and round greens receive approach shots like the dart board at your local pub.
The routing is a little schizo. The water holes feel horribly out of place. The grass selection is terrible, fast and firm this course is not.
They would have been far better served to take the money they spent on the big clubhouse and spend it adding some excitement to the course. Too many straight holes with containment mounding lining both sides of the fairway.
And that's not to mention the frustration that just comes with seeing the crude work that was performed there. The property deserved better. It could have been really really good.
Agreed with almost everything you say.
But is it a bad or poor course? Maybe you think it is. I have played many that are far, far worse, that is all.
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Sean L:
You may be right that it was a project to which Rees did not pay much attention. I actually met a fellow in Japan years ago who told me that he was the owner of Sandpines ... and though I did not spend much time with him, it was enough to discern that he would have been a very tough client to work for.
You are also, likely, correct that no architect today would take a commission on the Oregon coast lightly.
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Bill was on point as well. I would laugh at how much love Pat Mucci could muster for Sandpines from New Jersey. I think it was more love for Rees.
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Ally,
If I had to describe it in one word it would be Scale.
The 14th hole at Gearhart is a wonderful example of a Leven hole. But the width across the fairway is very narrow. The features are there but everything is much smaller, the green, the hump in front of the green and the total width of the hole. Now it is even more compelling based on the Pine trees that they have added along the right side of the fairway. Fine by me, but just for reference the width of the 16th at Bandon Dunes, the 9th at Pacific Dunes or the 3rd at Trails as an example are much wider in their playability and appearance.
At Astoria a few of the holes are pretty narrow but the way they used the rippled dunes they had to be that way. A few holes at Ocean Dunes including the double green, fit into a smaller bowl connected by a small dune ridge. The water features at Astoria and Gearhart are tiny ponds. The lake at Sand Pines is very BIG as are the features.
Now compare those golden age courses to the 4 courses at Bandon Dunes.
What will history say about the size of the golf courses being built today. In a hundred years will the new golf courses be even grander in scale?
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(http://cdn.homes.com/cgi-bin/readimage_v2/105769936)
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(http://cdn.homes.com/cgi-bin/readimage_v2/105769936)
Looks like a Dugger routing. ;D
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(http://cdn.homes.com/cgi-bin/readimage_v2/105769936)
Liberty National anyone?
Those untouched dunes at the top of the picture make the misuse of the land just that much more obvious.
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(http://cdn.homes.com/cgi-bin/readimage_v2/105769936)
Whats not to like!?
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Ally,
If I had to describe it in one word it would be Scale.
The 14th hole at Gearhart is a wonderful example of a Leven hole. But the width across the fairway is very narrow. The features are there but everything is much smaller, the green, the hump in front of the green and the total width of the hole. Now it is even more compelling based on the Pine trees that they have added along the right side of the fairway. Fine by me, but just for reference the width of the 16th at Bandon Dunes, the 9th at Pacific Dunes or the 3rd at Trails as an example are much wider in their playability and appearance.
At Astoria a few of the holes are pretty narrow but the way they used the rippled dunes they had to be that way. A few holes at Ocean Dunes including the double green, fit into a smaller bowl connected by a small dune ridge. The water features at Astoria and Gearhart are tiny ponds. The lake at Sand Pines is very BIG as are the features.
Now compare those golden age courses to the 4 courses at Bandon Dunes.
What will history say about the size of the golf courses being built today. In a hundred years will the new golf courses be even grander in scale?
Jim,
The 14th at Gearhart was one of the holes remodeled in the last 10 years by Robinson. The hole used to be straight in the trough between the dunes (ala Astoria). Robinson cut into the east dune and benched an angled green. And also shorted the 15th by 25 yards.