Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Bryan Izatt on January 27, 2011, 10:17:16 PM
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Just revisited Sugarloaf Mountain today, almost exactly two years after my first visit. In 2009 the greens were a mess of granulated sand. Today, they are fully filled in with overseed and run smooth, albeit slowly. The rest of the course is overseeded and still a little scruffy. The bunkers are well maintained for the most part. The price is right, but there is minimal service, if you're looking for that.
Here is the 15th green from two years ago, and then from today.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/sugarloaf/SM15c.jpg)
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/sugarloaf/IMG_0334.jpg)
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Bryan, thanks for the update. Can you post more pictures of the course currently?
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Bryan,
For those looking for good golf and good architecture and less concerned with things like service, is it a good value when in the area?
Nice to see it coming along...thanks for the update.
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Hi Mike. You know my background and where I come from--conditioning is not a big deal for me. However, we were there last April and the conditioning was bad. It effected playability and really impacted enjoyment.
With one caveat, compared to other courses in the Orlando area this is a terrific value, with terrain very different than your BFF Falcon's Fire. But if the conditioning is as it was last April your playing partners may leave you stranded in the parking lot at the end of the round--and its a long way to anywhere from SLM. ;)
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The condition of the course is much better than last April. As Bryan mentioned, the overseed has helped quite a bit, and the greens are very healthy, although a bit slow.
If you make a trip up to Sugarloaf Mountain, be sure to play Bella Collina...it is very close to SM and a lot of fun.
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Sugarloaf was a bit of a snoozer as far as I was concerned. It does have a number of good holes and it has some nice elevation which is surprising given its location, but it has to be Coore & Crenshaw's least inspiring layout.
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Sugarloaf was a bit of a snoozer as far as I was concerned. It does have a number of good holes and it has some nice elevation which is surprising given its location, but it has to be Coore & Crenshaw's least inspiring layout.
Which still puts it above 95% of the courses in Orlando. Maybe 97%.
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Sugarloaf was a bit of a snoozer as far as I was concerned. It does have a number of good holes and it has some nice elevation which is surprising given its location, but it has to be Coore & Crenshaw's least inspiring layout.
Which still puts it above 95% of the courses in Orlando. Maybe 97%.
Couldn't agree more.
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Sugarloaf Mountain is a great example that solid (not great) GCA --- even in poorly maintained condition --- is still is more fun to play than mediocre GCA in great condition --- I would rate SM just behind Old Memorial, Black Diamond and World Woods in a 100 mile radius --- of course, Streamsong might be the game changer...
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Andy,
Didn't take a lot of pictures this time. I posted quite a few from the visit two years ago. It looks pretty much the same except for the fairway overseeds and the vastly improved greens. Oh, and they were maintaining the bunkers and waste areas with a Sandpro. Here are a few that I took this year with one more comparison to two years ago.
The 14th green then and now.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/sugarloaf/SM14c.jpg)
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/sugarloaf/IMG_0324.jpg)
The 14th green currently. The difference in the greens is astounding.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/sugarloaf/IMG_0328.jpg)
The short par 4 uphill 15th currently.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/sugarloaf/IMG_0329.jpg)
The 17th, a long, long drop shot par 3 with a green that runs away.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/sugarloaf/IMG_0335.jpg)
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Andy,
Didn't take a lot of pictures this time. I posted quite a few from the visit two years ago. It looks pretty much the same except for the fairway overseeds and the vastly improved greens. Oh, and they were maintaining the bunkers and waste areas with a Sandpro. Here are a few that I took this year with one more comparison to two years ago.
The 14th green then and now.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/sugarloaf/SM14c.jpg)
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/sugarloaf/IMG_0324.jpg)
The 14th green currently. The difference in the greens is astounding.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/sugarloaf/IMG_0328.jpg)
The short par 4 uphill 15th currently.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/sugarloaf/IMG_0329.jpg)
The 17th, a long, long drop shot par 3 with a green that runs away.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/sugarloaf/IMG_0335.jpg)
Bryan,
Overseeding is like food coloring.
be curious if there's any bermuda left underneath come mid may/June
I enjoyed the course a lot when I was there, but growing in overseed isn't exactly rocket science or a long term solution.
but perhaps it provides enough playing surface to collect green fees all winter
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Mike,
Yes it's good value for the buck with good architecture. I think it was $59 and they were giving out a $35 coupon for a return visit within 14 days. I like elevation change so it stacks up very well against the flatter Orlando or south Florida courses. Conditioning at SLM is a non-issue now compared to other Orlando area courses.
As for service, there is essentially none. There was one very nice fellow running both the shop and the snack bar. Later on there was also one kid cleaning carts. That was all the visible "service". Quite fine by me. But, quite a difference from Sawgrass the day before.
Terry,
A snoozer? Less inspired than Talking Stick North? I'm not as huge a C&C fan as some on here, but, SLM is a good course now that the conditioning is not an issue. Which holes do you feel make it the least inspiring of C&C's efforts.
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Bryan,
Someone told me that they were there recently and that the conditions were poor and the parking lot almost empty.
That can't be a good sign, especiall with the type of winter the north is experiencing.
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Sugarloaf was a bit of a snoozer as far as I was concerned. It does have a number of good holes and it has some nice elevation which is surprising given its location, but it has to be Coore & Crenshaw's least inspiring layout.
Which still puts it above 95% of the courses in Orlando. Maybe 97%.
Couldn't agree more.
Central Florida is not the most exciting area for great golf, that's for sure, but my one day experience at Sugarloaf was underwhelming enough for me to say that I actually preferred the International course at Champions Gate to Sugarloaf. For that matter, on a day in, day out basis, I greatly prefer Bay Hill and Country Club of Orlando. Finally, in my judgment, Lake Nona may be the best golf course in town, despite the fact that it's a FAZIO! I know this might be an offense punishable by banishment, to prefer Fazio to C&C, but I just said it. Ready, Aim, FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRE
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Jeff,
That's a good question re the underlying Bermuda. The greens are a very tight knit, so it's possible there's not much Bermuda underneath. Perhaps someone from the area could get us some pictures in June, and we could see.
Patrick,
When was the someone there? I was only playing public access course while there, but the conditioning was on a par with others like Osprey Ridge and the Dunes at Seville and even Sawgrass. World Woods conditioning was better with greens were that were faster and just as dense and smooth. Conditioning at Deltona and Victoria Woods were generally worse - the overseed on the greens was pretty spotty. All things said and done, the conditioning was fine, although I'm sure not up to Seminole standards.
The parking lot was relatively empty. The housing development looks non-existent. The green fees were low. I'm a bit surprised they're still in business. It must be worse in the summer.
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Someone told me that they were there recently and that the conditions were poor and the parking lot almost empty.
Pat, that certainly was the case last April--poor conditioning and a parking lot with 3 cars on a beautiful Wednesday afternoon.
Glad to hear from Bryan that things are better now. I hope to post some pictures in April when we return.
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Played Sugarloaf in Dec and in Feb. Much better in Feb as the overseeing was still growing in in Dec. It seemed like there was a decent amount of bermuda in the playing areas, and the greens were smooth on both visits (not too fast). The bunkers are starting to show a lot of neglect and if you are off the main playing area it gets very rough very fast. Both days the parking lot was over half full.
I really enjoyed the design, and hope they can keep it going without too much more deterioration.
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Bryan,
The fellow was there within the last month.
You have to remember, while you played a number of courses, and made a comparative analysis, I think this person came from the North, a snowbird/snowflake, with higher expectations.
Certainly, the impression that I got from him is that he won't be going back there any time soon, if any time at all.
With Winter being a time of influx of golfers from the north, hearing remarks like the ones relayed to me, would take Sugarloaf Mountain off my destination list.
I would think that golfers from the north would rather stay at the hotel and play the courses at Grand Cypress.
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Apparently things have gone downhill at Sugarloaf Mountain- Golf Operations have CLOSED and the place is now DEFUNCT. I was reading through the boards in search of decent Orlando Golf options amongst the multitudes and quickly spotted the Crenshaw and Coore's design. After trying to get a tee time only to encounter a disconnected number, I called their management company Hampton Golf and was told the news.
This is pretty sad information in light of the fact that there are so many mediocre golfing options in Orlando. But, hey I guess those courses are strategically close to I-4 corridor where Mickey resides.
I think I am going to have to shlep up to World Woods, after all.
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That's too bad...I played there in March and it was a solid layout, even if the conditions were a bit lacking. The greens were pretty nice, the bunkers had collapsed in a few locations, but it looked like a sudden influx of cash could fix those issues pretty quickly.
The staff seemed upbeat about the situation at the time, but no surprise that it couldn't make a go.
Maybe someone will step in and take it over on the cheap?
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Wow, what a terrible turn. It is an excellent layout on a very good piece of land.
I can't say I'm surprised. About two years ago I had a day off from work so I drove over to play and it was closed two days a week for "maintenance" at the time. When your revenue doesn't cover the cost of opening up for the day it is a very bad sign.
Here's the question: if someone GAVE you the golf course, could revenue cover the maintenance cost? My guess is no, which is why we're here.
So sad. Thanks for sharing, even though I'm not happy about the news.
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It is about 75 miles from the new Streamsong Resort. I wonder if the Resort could have some effect on the revitalization of Sugarloaf.
It's a shame that this sandbelt of Florida is essentially ignored for play while guys like Terry Lavin prefer to go dunk balls at Fazio courses.
My message to Terry: You can hit balls at targets on the driving range too, and save yourself the expencse! ;D
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So sad. :-[
As recently as Sept 21 Hampton was promoting it with green fees of $19.95 including cart. I guess even that wasn't enough to get people out. Apparently even a good golf course isn't enough to get people to come if the location is isolated and there is no resort and nothing else there.
Garland,
Streamsong is south of Orlando and Sugarloaf is north; there is no synergy. Streamsong is equally isolated - it'll be interesting to see if their resort and the fact that there are two courses will be enough to draw people to the location. It is somewhat similar to World Woods which is also not the busiest course in the world.
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Bryan,
It seems to me to be an education problem. The same problem exists here in the Pacific northwest. People here believe a proper golf course has to have trees, because that is almost all they see. That in part is why Chambers Bay has been struggling since opening. Of course, the high green fee has blame there too, but I am hoping that when the US Open is played there, that it gets praised for its lack of trees with statements like golf as it is meant to be. Perhaps that would open some eyes in the PNW.
My only attraction to go play golf in Florida would be courses on the sand belts there. I have been hoping that Sugarloaf Mountain would be one I could play.
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Apparently things have gone downhill at Sugarloaf Mountain- Golf Operations have CLOSED and the place is now DEFUNCT. I was reading through the boards in search of decent Orlando Golf options amongst the multitudes and quickly spotted the Crenshaw and Coore's design. After trying to get a tee time only to encounter a disconnected number, I called their management company Hampton Golf and was told the news.
This is pretty sad information in light of the fact that there are so many mediocre golfing options in Orlando. But, hey I guess those courses are strategically close to I-4 corridor where Mickey resides.
I think I am going to have to shlep up to World Woods, after all.
Hi Everybody - As usual with these situations it is complicated (Note: I am a member of the course but otherwise not affiliated). Golf Operations are closed for the foreseeable future (through at least the end of the year), but it is due to the ownership structure and may or may not be permanent. The land and development has been in bankruptcy for some time but the golf operations had been funded by a potential buyer of the property. The main contribution was to cover the insurance on the land to allow the golf course to operate. That buyer has pulled out but there are other negotiations taking place. The operating and maintenance budget were extremely small since nobody actually owned the golf course. Hampton is just the management company. As a side note the course is still being maintained; but golfers are not allowed due to the insurance gap.
The course needs to draw the local market as well as snowbirds to be successful. It is pretty remote and the conditioning challenges are well documented. Ultimately though there were a few design features built in that the land could not support which lead to the course's decline. This was a combination of the general shape of the land and soil properties combined with the severe rainy climate. As an example the course opened with a lot of open sandy areas, most notably in front of 15 tee. The slope from 15 down to 14 fairway is severe, and when summer rains dumped 6 inches in two hours, a lot of the sand slid onto 14 fairway. This caused some asthetic issues to 15 (grassed over with grass that doesn't match) and major conditioing issues to 14, which has never recovered. Many of the C&C bunker faces have fallen in as well which were subsequently dumbed down for the worse.
Pete
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Thanks for the update, Pete. A little more optimism? Fingers crossed.
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Thanks for the update, Pete. A little more optimism? Fingers crossed.
John,
Why did you play Sugarloaf so infrequently?
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Pete,
Thanks for the assessment. It's a shame that property is just that bit too far from the golfing heartbeart of Orlando. While certainly not a shining example of C&C's work, it wasn't a bad golf course. The uneven conditioning and presentation, along with the economic free-fall, have probably been the principle factors leading to poor playing numbers. Given what it cost to build, folks driving and then paying above-average daily fee rates have reasonable expectations that simply weren't/aren't being delivered.
If that recent $20.00 rate is accurate, that sounds the final nail being driven into the coffin. At least until another undertaker is found that may want to pump some embalming fluid(money) into the place and make a go of it.
To me several things conspire to make Sugarloaf a difficult success opportunity. It is not an exceptional golf course. The golfing folk in the immediate area won't spend for the rate pricepoint that place needs to survive. The housing that was purported to be the underpinning of the project is mere tumbleweed acreage, and will be, for a long time. Can't really see the place emerging a winner with any model.
I will say that they spent SERIOUS money on tree installation and irrigation at Sugarloaf. Numerous clusters of oaks, with drip lines visable, are found throughout the perimeter of many holes. While somewhat difficult as a piece of ground, wiith proper maintenance, it could be a faily good members course...but NOT there.
Cheers,
Kris 8)
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Sugarloaf was built to operate under a high-end private model, with a housing community and a membership structure that would provide the funding to maintain the golf course to the standards under which it was ordered, designed and constructed. Had the project been devised as a $40 daily fee, that golf course never would have been built, certainly not by C&C.
I played it once, at one of the heights of one of the conditioning crises. I loved the layout and am happy I saw it (I did the same with Apache Stronghold and feel the same way).
I hope they can find an owner. I know that C&C would love to have the opportunity to send one of their guys in and clean up the design - and alter it where necessary to match a viable business model.
But not all projects drawn up with an entirely different set of micro and macro-economic projections are going to make it in the new normal. Sad, but true.
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Kris,
Just in case you were doubting the offer, here it is (was). Two years ago I paid $59, last year it was $39, both are well under the usual rate for the Orlando area. The conditioning the last two years was as good as other more expensive courses closer to Orlando. So, I don't think it was a price vs presentation issue. Nor do I think it was a unexceptional design issue as you seem to imply. I'd be curious as to what you found lacking in the design. The main issue was that it's just too isolated and the club wasn't designed or delivered to be a "destination". When the housing component collapsed I think the course's fate was sealed. There are only so many of us who are willing to search out and get to superior courses when they are as off the beaten path as this one. For the casual Orlando golfer or tourist golfer it is just too far off the grid.
Victoria Hills looks like a good deal too and it doesn't look like it's going away any time soon.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/350dtm/SugarloafPromotion.jpg)
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Pete,
Thanks for the assessment. It's a shame that property is just that bit too far from the golfing heartbeart of Orlando. While certainly not a shining example of C&C's work, it wasn't a bad golf course. The uneven conditioning and presentation, along with the economic free-fall, have probably been the principle factors leading to poor playing numbers. Given what it cost to build, folks driving and then paying above-average daily fee rates have reasonable expectations that simply weren't/aren't being delivered.
If that recent $20.00 rate is accurate, that sounds the final nail being driven into the coffin. At least until another undertaker is found that may want to pump some embalming fluid(money) into the place and make a go of it.
To me several things conspire to make Sugarloaf a difficult success opportunity. It is not an exceptional golf course. The golfing folk in the immediate area won't spend for the rate pricepoint that place needs to survive. The housing that was purported to be the underpinning of the project is mere tumbleweed acreage, and will be, for a long time. Can't really see the place emerging a winner with any model.
I will say that they spent SERIOUS money on tree installation and irrigation at Sugarloaf. Numerous clusters of oaks, with drip lines visable, are found throughout the perimeter of many holes. While somewhat difficult as a piece of ground, wiith proper maintenance, it could be a faily good members course...but NOT there.
Cheers,
Kris 8)
Rates have hovered between $29-59 the past couple years. General conditioning (fairways, bunkers) has been a big problem this year due to the lack of an operating budget. I'll also say the condition of the fairways has been in decline since they started winter overseeding, except for the greens which have significantly improved. This isn't because of the overseeding as much as removing all the oaks surrounding the greens to improve sunlight and airflow. There were literally 3 people on the maintanence crew over the past 18 months, including the greenskeeper!
As mentioned there were a lot of reasons for the decline. The biggest is the maintenance which was caused by the erosion issues I previously mentioned and losing the greens in winter 2010. Say what you will about the architecture of Orlando courses, but most local courses have greens in good to excellent nick for high season. When you have a course that doesn't have good greens, that is a big deterrent for the locals and tourists alike. And while the greens have been well maintained lately, they are still on the slow side so the contouring doesn't pop as much as it should.
Kris - I'm curious what you meant by "tree installation". The property already had all those oak trees and none were planted to my knowledge. In fact many have been removed since the course opened as it's difficult to grow grass underneath them. I'll certainly agree the design isn't first rate, but it was much better in its first year than the current incarnation. I'd argue the original course was a Doak 4-5, which is higher than nearly anything else in the area.
Pete
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It is another course that makes me think it would be best operated as a family business where Pop took care of the outside and Mom took care of the inside. Wouldn't spin any cash off for investors or a management company, but run right, could probably provide a stable living for a hard working family. Problem is, the owners would never give it away, even though it would assure that if and when the economic world turned around, and the lots had value again, at least there would be a golf course. Although the circumstances are different, it reminds me a bit of High Pointe in that there is no doubt its a high quality course, yet it will probably just go back to native after a while. I'll never understand why the guy at High Point didn't just give somebody a long term $1 lease instead of letting the investment just vaporize. I'm sure there is some sane business reason, but my simple mind hasn't found it yet.
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Found this quote in a post I made on August 5, 2008:
"C & C's Sugarloaf Mountain perhaps has impeccably poor timing in one of the nation's toughest housing markets in what at first blush appeared to be a relatively remote location."
Unfortunately, the writing was on the wall before I opened my trunk.
Bogey
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Bryan,
No doubting Thomas here ;D, just amazed it reached that low a number. Desperation can lead to almost anything. Your distance factor call concurs with my opening line and probably is the biggest drawback to potential success there with the private member model gone.
Pete,
On reflection, many of those oaks appeared to have been long established. I seem to recall some staked-size that may have been planted. There WAS a ton of irrigation about them, though it looked non-functional in the main.
Cheers,
Kris 8)
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This is too bad to hear, I live in SE Orlando and it took nearly an hour or more for me to get up there.
I hope it escape bankruptcy in some form so the course is playable.
I remember thinking even before the housing bust that I can't believe anyone would live way out there and work in Orlando.
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Terrible to hear. Lived in Orlando for 14 years from 87-01, and looked forward to playing this place at some point in time. The course is remote and no easy way to get there quickly. That didn't help it when trying to book golf around the PGA Show the last few years when I had to get out of the show quickly and get to a course just as quickly.
Bill Vogeney
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Although the circumstances are different, it reminds me a bit of High Pointe in that there is no doubt its a high quality course, yet it will probably just go back to native after a while. I'll never understand why the guy at High Point didn't just give somebody a long term $1 lease instead of letting the investment just vaporize. I'm sure there is some sane business reason, but my simple mind hasn't found it yet.
"Sane business reason" were never the forte of the guy who owns High Pointe today. He decided not to lease it out to an operator because he was afraid a lower price point would diminish the course somehow. [How that would diminish it more than abandoning it, I never figured out.]
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Pete,
Any update about the fate of Sugarloaf Mtn?
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Had the opportunity to play SM in its first year. Remember that the drive from Orlando was not short, and further away than Bella Colina. As BC was supposed to be a housing project and sold almost no lots (and, I believe, preceded SM), how could they expect to have moved any real estate at SM? Thought there were many good holes, but there was a lack of continuity in the design. And the conditioning then was terrific.
Also, though many people love undulating properties, that site was borderline extreme in some spots. Hell, #18 was a 460 yard par 5 (from the tips) because it was so uphill.
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Pete,
Any update about the fate of Sugarloaf Mtn?
No good news to share I'm afraid. They let the pro go earlier this year, who was the one keeping it afloat.
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Pete,
Any update about the fate of Sugarloaf Mtn?
No good news to share I'm afraid. They let the pro go earlier this year, who was the one keeping it afloat.
Thanks for the update, Pete. Sad to hear that.
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I played the C&C course at Streamsong two weeks ago. Many times I reflected back to similarities with holes or features at Sugarloaf. It is a crying shame the course is NLE. Only made it out there 3 times, but it was pretty darn good.
Certainly sits on a great site with some awesome terrain.
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I am very sorry that this course and housing development have not succeeded, but my question is what were the original developers thinking in the first place. It does not take an Ivy League MBA to figure out from day one that this project would end up the way it did.
It is literally out in the middle of no where. There are no surrounding restaurants or shops around. Getting there from Orlando is a chore. There are so many courses in the immediate Orlando area, why would someone want to make this trek, and if they did, they would not make a habit of it. I drove by this site recently , all I could do is shake my head and ask myself "what the heck were these investors thinking"?
Bella Collina just down the road is a spectacular property. I wonder if this course and facility equally will make it in the long run, I certainly wish them all the success. The facilities are elaborate like I have never seen, how will these costs ever get recouped, that is a real puzzle to me. And the course as far as I am concerned was fun, but a once and done for sure. The bunkering is beyond silly. What the heck were they thinking?
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Stopped by on the way home from playing Mission Inn with Howard Riefs and his father (fun time and great weather), and it is just sad that this course went out of business. Here are some pics to give a perspective on how bad it is.
The clubhouse
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5548/10658618893_acd0e9d7ee_c.jpg)
The driving range marker
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7429/10658626713_d8bf958bb7_c.jpg)
The driving range view
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2854/10658420716_590bdf98b7_c.jpg)
The 10th tee marker
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2891/10658404015_87c100b9a6_c.jpg)
The view of the fairway from the 10th teebox
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5530/10658398185_d6a8540514_c.jpg)
The 12th greenside bunker that still has the rakes
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7306/10658410635_4936f5a96e_c.jpg)
The 12th green
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5537/10658444496_eae71e8ec0_c.jpg)
The 13th teebox that is now home to some wild melons (need to go back and get some groceries)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3707/10658663853_5300160a89_c.jpg)
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That is depressing. I remember in early 2011 I was playing at Innisbrook and some knowledgeable guys recommended this course to me. By the time I made it back to the area, it was closed.
Does anyone know the latest on ownership and if anyone might still be able to revive the place? Any estimates of what it would cost to get it playable?
I realize it is probably a lost cause, but am still curious.
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Wow that is a shame. I am happy I was able to get down there and play it once though.
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Stopped by on the way home from playing Mission Inn with Howard Riefs and his father (fun time and great weather), and it is just sad that this course went out of business. Here are some pics to give a perspective on how bad it is.
The clubhouse
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5548/10658618893_acd0e9d7ee_c.jpg)
The driving range marker
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7429/10658626713_d8bf958bb7_c.jpg)
The driving range view
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2854/10658420716_590bdf98b7_c.jpg)
The 10th tee marker
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2891/10658404015_87c100b9a6_c.jpg)
The view of the fairway from the 10th teebox
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5530/10658398185_d6a8540514_c.jpg)
The 12th greenside bunker that still has the rakes
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7306/10658410635_4936f5a96e_c.jpg)
The 12th green
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5537/10658444496_eae71e8ec0_c.jpg)
The 13th teebox that is now home to some wild melons (need to go back and get some groceries)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3707/10658663853_5300160a89_c.jpg)
I drove by the site a few months ago, it looked run down and depressed, but had no idea it was that bad. How sad.
A result of bad timing, and a bad location. Bella Collina just down the road, wonder if they will survive. Certainly wish them luck.
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I drove by the site a few months ago, it looked run down and depressed, but had no idea it was that bad. How sad.
A result of bad timing, and a bad location. Bella Collina just down the road, wonder if they will survive. Certainly wish them luck.
I wouldn't necessarily say it was a bad location, as much as it was a bad business model. I think if they would have approached this property like Mosaic did at Streamsong, it might have worked out. Mission Inn is only 9 miles away and is also in the middle of nowhere and is doing just fine. Oh well, RIP.
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Anyone trying to purchase this place? I think this would work great as a out of town private club Fri-Mon with public play Tues-thur. Or just have 600 out of town members paying smaller fees. Needed cabins for lodging.
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There have been many opinions voiced about the course and overall project, but the view from the range and 1st tee over Lake Opopka was incredible, especially on a Florida site.
Ken
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There have been many opinions voiced about the course and overall project, but the view from the range and 1st tee over Lake Opopka was incredible, especially on a Florida site.
Ken
I'm curious what the land would go for? I am curious how much to clear and re seed would cost, not that much is my guess? If irrigation is intact that is big plus. Building new lodging would be highest cost and imperative to success. Not many Florida destination clubs that are affordable, so under supply IMO. The remoteness is so cool. Curious if those in the know could give guesstimates.
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...Ol' Sugarloaf Mountain is still alive and well in the world of Fiction, for it shows up in Omar El Akkad's apocalyptic novel "American War", a tale about a family from the Bayou and how America's second Civil War, set around the year of 2075, takes it's toll and seals it's fate on this American family of 5, the Chestnuts.
Anyways, the story dabs with rising temperatures and sea levels (along with drones, suicide bombers, and arms being shipped from the Middle Eastern Empires aid the "Free Southern States)...and so, most of the coastal states have lost ground to the encroaching sea...the town of Augusta is seen as a shipping dock for "The Free Southern States", and the state of Florida is all but gone, except that is, for Sugarloaf ( Mountain ), which I believe is the highest point in the Sunshine State, thus it hypothetically survives the rising ocean and is known as "Sugarloaf Detention Facility", a Guantanamo Bay of sorts, a rock out in the "Florida Sea", used by the "Blues" to make captives of the Southern Rebellion "sing"...dark story, I know.
Not really too golf related, far from it, but, interesting that the site still survives when the country does not...so yes, perhaps their is hope...MAGA.
...here's a map that is shown on the opening pages, and an excerpt from the book, describing Sugarloaf in it's future state.
(http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u632/raglanroad/fullsizeoutput_aa_zpsbxjvia8h.jpeg) (http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/raglanroad/media/fullsizeoutput_aa_zpsbxjvia8h.jpeg.html)
(http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u632/raglanroad/fullsizeoutput_a7_zps3osxvhsg.jpeg) (http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/raglanroad/media/fullsizeoutput_a7_zps3osxvhsg.jpeg.html)
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Sugarloaf, at 312 feet is the highest point on Peninsular Florida. The fifth highest in the state.
Britton Hill on the panhandle is the highest at 345 feet.
Per Wikipedia.
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I thought Mountain Lake claimed to be the highest point in Florida?
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Tom,
I believe you are referencing Iron Mountain which is next door at Bok Tower Gardens.
"Iron Mountain is one of the highest points in peninsular Florida, United States and a prominent point of the Lake Wales Ridge. Rising 295 feet (90 m) above sea level,[1] The mountain contains citronelle, a hematite-containing rock that oxidizes when exposed to air and is responsible for the red-brown color of the earth.[1] The ridge is located just north of the city of Lake Wales. The tower of the famous tourist attraction Bok Tower Gardens is built on the summit.[2]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Florida%27s_highest_points
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I thought Mountain Lake claimed to be the highest point in Florida?
Bok Tower sits on one of the highest points in the state, but in peninsular FL, it's somewhere in the 5th to 6th highest point range. Sugarloaf Mtn is indeed the highest point in the peninsular part of the state.
As for bringing the course back, they just finished an exit off of the turnpike that takes you almost directly to the course. Whether or not that ends up being a good thing for the course revival remains to be seen...[size=78%]http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/lake/os-minneola-turnpike-interchange-20160513-story.html (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/lake/os-minneola-turnpike-interchange-20160513-story.html)[/size]
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2 (I assume these are the two near the clubhouse) out of 2555???
You would think if you sell/build even half of those, you'd have enough interest to revive the course.
I played it in 2012 in March...it was a cool place, I was sad to see it go, but you could see the writing on the wall as conditioning had already taken a hit before closing.