Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Derek_L on February 12, 2002, 09:23:29 PM
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I recently read a small blurp in a Minneapolis paper regarding the Town and Country Club in St. Paul, MN as being the nation's 2nd oldest course in continuous use. Now I know the original Oakhurst Links on the east coast, I beleive maybe Massachusetts or New Hampshire has been called the oldest club in America, but I also know that Shinnecock is right up there in age, plus there are several Canadian courses that are in the late 1800's. Not only have I read Oakhurst being the oldest, but I have read other's being the oldest too. Now back to the Town and Country Club, it was supposed founded in 1888, tomorrow or today, February 13, but that is not important. Somewhere I read that Tillie did some design work on the Town and Country Club, now I know he didn't do the original design, as he was only 14 at the time. So what is going on with so many courses claming they are the oldest?
Derek L ???
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Shinnecock opened in 1931 I beleive, so it is not near one of the oldest. Town and Country opened in 1893 and the Chicago Golf Club or Country Club opened in 1894.
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Chicago is the first 18 hole course in the USA thus the oldest? Are the others originally 9 hole courses?
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Oakhurst Links, located in White Sulpher Springs, WV (the same town as The Greenbrier), is/was the first established golf club in the United States in 1884. The course has been restored to the 1884 state and is played with equipment that was used at that time. Truely a great experience.
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Oakhurst Links is one of the truly great golf experiences
available!
Playing with that old equipment is just a hoot!
If you ever get near the Greenbrier, this is a must-see.
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It's my understanding that St Andrews in New York is the oldest "ongoing" golf CLUB in America although they may have moved the site slightly from where it originally began so obviously maybe it's not the oldest course.
There has been talk before about a golf course of some type in South Carolina that preceded everything in America by many years, possibly well over a hundred years or more.
Shinnecock's opening in 1931 was a redesign and enormous upgrade for a course existing previously on basically the same ground, although some of the holes were on the other side of Rte. 27. There are a few original holes that have been brought back recently from the original course to the right of the driveway and used for what, I'm not sure.
#7 is also a pre-Flynn redan, probably done by MacD/Raynor. The story is that MacD and Raynor wanted two redans on NGLA and they built #7 and were then informed that for some reason they had wandered off NGLA's property and onto Shinnecock's! Whoops! But Shinnecock said, Oh what the hell, it looks OK so just leave it there!
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I am not sure what year it opened but I believe Essex County Club is the oldest. I know that they have the oldest green in North America being on hole number 3 a good par 5.
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Micheal:
The Greenbrier claims on its White course that IT has the
oldest green (or tee?) in use in America.
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The Royal Montreal Club, founded in 1873, claims to be the oldest golf club in North America.
Oldest in US is St Andrews, Yonkers, NY, founded 1888.
I've seen a painting of golf being played in Charleston, SC about 1780. My understanding is that there are also records of a club and a pretty good idea of where the course used to be. Not much more than that is known.
Who knows, if they had spent more time on the golf course in South Carolina, we might have avoided the Civil War. ;)
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Chicago Golf Club is the oldest PRIVATE club in the US.
Another one, nearby, is the Janesville Country Club in Janesville, WI. It claims to have been built around 1894 by Alexander Galbreath and is also one of the oldest PRIVATE clubs in the US. Hope to get over there this season and check it out.
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It's no surprise that there are some old courses but truely the 18 hole caviet is significant. Old del monte is the oldest west of the Mississippi still in contiguous operation. And Chicago is the oldest 18 holer.
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Along these lines, The Homestead's "Homestead" course's first tee is the oldest tee in continuous use from the original, or something like that.
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What's the story with Tacoma? I have heard that it was the first club founded on the pacific coast. Golfcourse.com indicates that it is a stanley thompson design, so i am assuming the 1894 design didn't survive. i'm intrigued though, anybody seen this course?
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Evan,
I believe Chicago Golf claims to be the oldest 18 hole GC in the US. It too has moved from the original 18 hole site in Downers Grove to it's current location in Wheaton. The course then was significantly redesigned again by Raynor - who took out many of the holes that favored CB's fade. Some of the original Chicago Golf became Belmont GC which still exists as a 9 holer with little or no remains of the original course.
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Patrick,
Thanks for that clarification...maybe one day we can ALL get this thing straight! ;D ;)
Being a fellow Midwesterner (and me being a former Chicagoan)...have you ever heard anything about the Janesville CC course I mentioned? It would be a quick trip from Dubuque over there, and at least for historical significance might be someplace neat to check out.
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Ev, I seem to reember reading something along those lines about Janesville. I thought C.B., was involved...
I also heard some lore about a golf club being found in some pioneer's personal effects in Nebraska that indicated he had brought the club when he emigrated there in 1860s, and that he may have laid out a course to amuse himself while sodbusting or tending cattle.
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A_Clay_Man --
You may be right with Old Del Monte, but I was under the impression that a little-known muni from Colorado Springs, named Patty Jewett GC, was the oldest west of the Mississippi, being founded in 1898.
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Don't know about Tacoma in 1894, but Gearhart on the north Oregon coast dates back to 1892. Unfortunately, a recent remodel and irrigation system did away with any of the links characteristics that may have remained.
What's the story with Tacoma? I have heard that it was the first club founded on the pacific coast. Golfcourse.com indicates that it is a stanley thompson design, so i am assuming the 1894 design didn't survive. i'm intrigued though, anybody seen this course?
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Derek L.,
i had the good fortune to play the Town & Country Club about 4-5 times back in 1995. from what i remember being told, is that the Town & Country Club was the second oldest course in the USA (established in the late 1880's) west of the Mississippi River. as far as the design is concerned, The Architects of Golf list it as a George McRee course, with renovation ensuing by Robert Foulis (routed Minikahda, and designed original Bellerive CC), Stan (not Stanley) Thompson and Dick Nugent. the course certainly has some quirkiness to it, opening 4-3-3, and finishing 3-5-5-5-3, giving it quite a unique feel. i would be interested to know whether Tillinghast did some work here?
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Patrick,
you're right about C.B. Macdonald's work at Chicago. The original site of the Chicago GC was in Belmont, Il., and was the USA's FIRST 18-HOLE COURSE (9 holes designed by Macdonald). in 1895, the club moved to Wheaton, Il., where Macdonald designed all 18-holes. however, older courses did exist in the USA, namely the four other charter members of the USGA besides Chicago GC, St.Andrews GC in Yonkers-on-Hudson, NY., Shinnecock Hills GC in Southampton, NY., The Country Club in Brookline, Mass., and the Newport GC in Newport, R.I.
the Newport & Shinnecock GC's were designed by William Davis originally, in 1894 & 1895 respectively. Newport being 9 holes, and Shinnecock being 12. The Country Club was designed by Willie Campbell in 1893 as a 9-hole course.
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Regarding a previous post, I have read elsewhere that a golf club was formed in Charleston, SC in 1786 and a golf club formed in Savannah, GA in 1794. The clubs dissolved some 20 years later at about the same time. As I remember, they have pretty much nailed down the dates from local accounts such as newspapers and shipping records.
Also, I would like to add that Palmetto Golf Club (Aiken, SC) was founded in 1892 and still exists today on the same property although expanded from the original 3 or 4 hole course.
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David Normoyle- Del Monte (old is thrown in by the locals) has it's start-up in '97 and celebrated it's centenial with a full aray of hyperbole including the not to miss Johnny Miller clinic.
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Evan,
Mabye Janesville could host a small midwest GCA outing. Not too far from Iowa or Chicago. I'm not sure if the course is long enough for Paul or Shivas but we could make them play with persimmon and balata. ;)
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Dave,
I am a "former" Chicagoan...moved out here to Dubuque a little over three years ago. Lived in Chicago two separate times (Willowbrook in 1992, Oak Park from 1995-1996, and Bloomingdale from 1997-1998...our first house within walking distance to Medinah!!!). Dubuque is about 3 hours away from Chicago due West.
Patrick (and other area golfers),
A GCA outing at Janesville would/could be very cool, hopefully we can pull something off this Spring/Summer. It would definitely be an easy drive for me, Dick, and all you Chicago bretheren. At 6,347 it does play kind of short...so maybe we make those guys play left-handed or something ??? ;D I'd be happy to play it left-handed.
Here is a nice link to their website: http://www.jcc1894.com/index2.html
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Concerning western North America according to Jeff Shelley, a golf historian/chronicler etc. :
Unsubstantiated rumors of golf at Fort Nisqually southwest of Tacoma could have been played in the 1840's; it was a Hudson's Bay Company area and this company was of Scottish origin. Imagination takes over from there.
Founded in 1894, Tacoma Country & Golf Club (not course) is the oldest continuously running American club west of the Mississipeepeei.
Gearhart is the oldest continuosly operated golf course west of the Misipee. Still going strong and is a very fun course.
The club first formed in the Pacific Northwest was British Columbia's 'Vancouver Country Club' in 1892. That same year, Gearhart Golf Links in Oregon began with three holes. Legend has it that several Scotsmen laid out four holes on Gearhart's dunes as far back as the 1880's. This is where I (meaning me) embellish.->
These Scotsmen had a full back 14 holes but since their whisky still operation was there they had to keep it quiet and thus there was no "writin'" or "minutes o' the meetin'". There was one Irishman but they bannished him to Bandon (because he put an 'e' in whisky on the whisky label) where he quickly imported and grew gorse to prepare the land for future golf possibilities. Now, every year, they dig him up and shoot him twice to make sure he's dead, then rebury him for next year's celebration. (No one likes gorse except bunnies and masochists.) Later, in California's incessent chasing of wanting to be like Oregon, that state began selling catsup and oranges to finance golf courses but they ruint the whole idea of golf by putting microfreeways on all their courses. This is all documented fact (in my world).
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The Chattanooga Golf Club was built in 1895. I think CBM had something to do with it but I am not sure. There was an article in the Tennessee USGA magazine about a year ago about the course. Has anyone played it or does anyone know whether CBM did it?
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By the year 1889, NY had 4 courses, Maine 3, PA 3, and CT,
VT, and NJ, had 1 each.
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The earliest known golf in America was actually in New York in the days when it was a small Dutch settlement known as New Amsterdam. there are records showing that 'kolven', a game played on ice or cross country by the dutch (which is widely recognised as the forerunner to golf, having been transported across to Scotland's east coast by Dutch merchants. The scots then adapted the game for their linkslands) was played in New Amsterdam in the 1600's.
Then as mentioned by John Stiles, there were at least 2 clubs in the south in Charleston and Savannah towards the end of the 1700's, there are documented meetings of these clubs in the newspapers of the time, but the clubs were disbanded soon after. BCrosby, where on earth did you see a painting of golf in South Carolina at that time? I would love to hear more about it, as I don't think it is widely known among golf historian circles.
A lone scotsman is known to have played golf in Canada around the 1830's, but not until Alexander Dennistoun-Wood commenced Royal Montreal in the 1870's did organised golf clubs re-appear in North America.
My family owns the oldest golf course here in the Southern Hemisphere, here in Tasmania (dating back to 1822), it actually has connections with Royal Montreal through Dennistoun-Wood. I was lucky to be a guest at the Oakhurst Links in West Virginia a few years back. It is the oldest known golf course in the US with its original routing still in use, having been a club in the 1880's & 90's and then a private course through til the 1920's or 30's when it was disbanded. When Lewis Keller purchased the farm, they were shown the exact routing of the course by a descendant of the founder, even finding some of the original cups still in the ground. The shapes of the bunkers and teeing grounds were still very evident, so it was gently restored and is a thrill to play with the hickories and the imitation gutty ball. It is a 9-hole course. I have read about a lone golfer/golf club in Nebraska or Iowa around the same time.
So the St.Andrews Golf Club in New York, whilst not being the oldest club, or the oldest course, its founder John Reid can still lay claim as the father of American golf because he established the USGA.
Greg Ramsay
www.barnbougledunes.com
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The golf club/course in Charleston, SC was called Charleston Green at I believe it did dissolve after about 20 years of existance. The course was over grown by part of downtown Charleston. Although I have heard that golf historians have a pretty good idea where it was.
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Gentlemen
I have heard of a course in east central kentucky founded in the mid 19 century be expatriot Scots. I believe it is nine hole but predates many of the courses mentioned here. Any body know the place?
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All I know about this is:
Town and Country is NOT, as has been alleged above, the oldest club or course (continuously operated and/or intermittently out of business) west of the Mississippi.
How do I know this, for certain?
Because I know, for certain, that Town and Country is EAST of the Mississippi. Only a couple of hundred yards east, I suppose -- but definitely east.
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I will concur with Dan that Town and Country is east of the Mississippi and not west as stated above. As for the club started in the late 1700's, I was on Golf Digest's webpage lastnight and noticed that they had a blurp regarding, I beleive the Charleston club, or something like that, whish was founded around 1788 or so, but I am unsure and doubt if it is in existence today. ::)
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Dan,
pardon by cartographic error. i simply took the information given to me without checking a map. thanks for the correction.
"The First 100 Clubs in America"
-Golf Magazine January 1995
(for the sake of brevity, i'll list until Town & CC founding)
1786-South Carolina GC (NKA CC of Charleston)
1794-Savannah GC
1854-Philadelphia Cricket
1856-Germania T & CC (Saginaw, Michigan)
1875-Vesper CC (Tyngsboro, Mass.)
1878-Rockaway Hunting (Cedarhurst, NY)
1879-Olympic Club
1880-Edgewood Club of Tivoli (Tivoli, NY)
1881-Meadow Brook Club (Jericho, NY)
1882-Pittsburgh Field Club
The Country Club
1885-Tuxedo GC (Tuxedo Park, NY)
1886-Dorset Field Club (Dorset, Vermont)
1887-Dakota Dunes CC
Essex CC (West Orange, NJ)
Foxburg Club (Foxburg, Penn.)
Onteora Club (Tannersville, NY)
Quoque Field Club (Quoque, NY)
1888-Ausable Club (St.Huberts, NY)
Richmond CC (Staten Is., NY)
St.Andrew's GC (Hastings-on-Hudson, NY)
Town & CC (St.Paul, MN)
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I believe the distinction of eighteen holes was the criterior for both chicago and del monte
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The Oldest Golf Course in North America is located in Middlesboro, Kentucky, not far from the Cumberland Gap. I am not sure of the year it opened.
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http://www.middlesborocountryclub.net/history.htm
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RW,
You're absolutley correct, sir !
http://www.middlesborocountryclub.net/history.htm
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There is an invitation on the wall at GCGC for a "Golfer's Ball" in Savannah, Georgia. The exact date escapes me, but I recall it being in the 1700's.
I'll bet Professor Mucci can shed some light.