Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Jud_T on January 02, 2011, 01:25:50 PM
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Instead of my usual whining like the fat middle aged hack that I am, I decided to actually make an attempt at a positive contribution to this site. So on our family holiday trip to Cabo, your intrepid reporter risked life and limb on a day trip through the mountain roads of Baja California Sur armed with my new Panasonic Lumix camera (with a Leica lens!). The good news is I made it there and back by nightfall and took a ton of pictures. The bad news is I would have liked to have taken even more non-golf related pictures and have spent more time soaking in the course and this was my first time using the camera extensively, so I have yet to figure out all the manual settings, so apologies in advance. For anyone travelling down that way, I'd highly recommend making the trip to play this course, although the preferable method for those not rushing back to watch the kids go parasailing is to stay over and get 54 holes in. Combined with Diamante and Cabo del Sol Ocean, this is one hell of a golf trip. My only problem is that it's a lot easier to justify a guy's golf trip to Bandon than it is to Cabo, the family inevitably wants to come along for the 80 degree days and the beaches. (side note-if anyone wants the recipe I got personally from the head chef at Don Emiliano for Salsa Macha please IM me).
Anyway, on to the course. This is not a walking course. Hell, you'd need a massage just humping it from the clubhouse to the first tee. Your cart comes with your own GPS gun, ballwasher, club cleaner, and a rake (a nifty cartball solution to the "where should the rakes be kept" argument). I suppose you COULD walk the course with some shuttling around, but I doubt that anyone does. Obviously there were some constraints in terms of proposed real estate lots which caused this routing, but they did a nice job of segregating the two elements, although it's a bit hard to tell as the only houses built thus far are near the clubhouse and there are posts and signs all over the place. Well, anyway, if there's ever an advertisement for a cart-ball course, this is it. As with most Doak courses, at least those I've seen, the greens are really interesting and there's a lot of subtle, and not so subtle, movement on the fairways. I tried to get a lot of pictures of said ground game, but as usual the photos don't do justice to the land.
The fact that this place is not one of RGD's Top Ten leads me to 2 possible conclusions:
1. The gang took a bit too much Peyote one night in the desert and had a bad experience, or
2. I need to make a much better effort to get off my butt and see the other 8 of the top 10 that I have yet to see. (I've only played Pac Dunes and Lost Dunes, as well as Legends Heathland. FYI- Old Mac didn't make their top ten either!).
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A few things you don't see every day on your way to the club:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/dcrklf.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/29gdde9.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2w5nfy9.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2rh9yco.jpg)
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Jud,
I'll be watching with eagerness as this thread and its photos develop, but which Lumix did you get, and what are your thoughts on it?
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OK- on to the course. I will include in quotes the hole by hole "quick tips" that they give you before heading out. Again, as it was my one and only play and I was rushing a bit on the back to make sure I made it back to civilization, hopefully others will chime in. As with the other RGD courses I've seen, the course is a ton of fun and playable for all abilities, but that doesn't mean it's easy to score, particularly on your first visit. The greens were running a bit slow (9ish?) but not so slow that you couldn't use the slopes effectively around the green. My only beef was the quality of the sand, which is one of my pet peeves. It was very heavy and didn't really allow for many shots other than the grip-it and blast out one. Don't know if this is a maintenance issue. Also is this the indigenous sand they found on site? Anyway, it's hard to quibble with a real-estate course in this environment.
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Derek,
I got the DMC-ZS7. This is their smallest, lowest priced model which has the Leica lens. I think it was about $250. I really like it. The zoom and the HD video are very good. (The above pix were taken through the windshield of a moving car.)
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Par 72, Blue 6916, White 6336, Red 5213
Hole 1: Blue 426, White 386, Red 289
Handicap 10
"Driver off the tee, aim for the green on this wide open fairway. On your approach, anywhere but the bunker lined right side is good. Plenty of room for an easy chip and putt if you don't hit the green. Good warm up for what's to come"
I'm a fan of the "ease-into-the round" hole, and down-wind this is certainly one, particularly after spending nearly 3 hours on the Mexican back roads! I'm on record as consistently saying views are overrated on golf courses, but some of these are pretty darned good.
View looking back out over the bay from the first tee:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2prbfci.jpg)
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View from first tee. I played the whites, but tried to take as many pix as possible from the tips:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/23qxvmd.jpg)
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Looking back towards the tee from the fairway:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/1e9o35.jpg)
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Approach shot:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/25714lw.jpg)
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View from just short of the green.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2nunfcl.jpg)
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From the front-left side of green:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2lk88d1.jpg)
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Left-rear of green:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/e6bpjr.jpg)
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Some of the great bunker work front-right:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2moxedu.jpg)
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Introducing Ball-Cam! No this isn't porn...OK maybe it is for some of us....
(http://i53.tinypic.com/arwas.jpg)
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Left Bunker:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2iihoia.jpg)
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From behind the green. As I recall there are a lot of interesting shots from behind the green on several holes. Might even be the play with this pin to avoid dealing with the swale and bunker on the front-right:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/67qgps.jpg)
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Hole #2: Par 4, Blue-416, White-393, Red-320
Handicap 6
"Aim at the green and let 'er rip on this hole, too. A bit longer than the first, but same wide open fairway. Take an extra club to the uphill green, and stay left. This green is anything but flat. so anywhere on is good, or leave it short left for an uphill chip shot."
So much for the easy 3-hole start the pro told me about...This hole plays fairly long into the breeze off the bay and there's a lot going on on this green and some nice bunkering short and right...
From the tee:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2w4ipn8.jpg)
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Zoomed in:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/25sa1ro.jpg)
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Zoomed-in left approach:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/b4uxww.jpg)
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Great bunker short and right, may find more balls than you think in a stronger breeze:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/qpl9bn.jpg)
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Short-left:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/j77nk7.jpg)
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from left of the green. Notice the contours both below and above the hole (bigger than they appear):
(http://i53.tinypic.com/24q02dv.jpg)
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Another look at the green contour from below the hole:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/14x00fm.jpg)
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from behind the green, notice contour on right:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/4kbujb.jpg)
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Not where you want to be:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/34h6ekl.jpg)
Another crappy view from the green 8):
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2q1e7vr.jpg)
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At the end of January of 06, I spent 3 1/2 days there with Tom D, Brian Schneider, Brian Slawnik & Chad Grave as the prize for winning Golf Magazines Armchair Architect back in the previous fall. I just tagged along and asked an occaissional question. What I saw mostly was the front nine that got completely re-arranged over time to what it is today.
I hope you keep going on this thread as I am most interested in what happened on holes 9 through 12 over the most challenging portion of the property. Even as a hole that was only cleared, the 9th hole looked terriffic.
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Carl,
I'll get all 18 up over the coming days. I have a bunch of pictures to go through.
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#3: Par 3, Blue-146, White-130, Red 101
Handicap 12
"A Short, yet feisty par 3. Be short or be right where there is a large landing area not visible from the tee...anything but long gives you a chance at making par."
Tough club selection downwind, particularly if you are playing in more than the 1 club breeze that I found. There's a lot of contour short of the green, and I can imagine a lot of guys walking off with a 4 or 5 and scratching their heads after such a seemingly easy hole...
From the back tee:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/1zaoft.jpg)
View from the whites:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/x10rhl.jpg)
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A bit closer to the green, and a sense of some of the contour:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2gx1lxj.jpg)
The bunker short/left. Not really in play but adds to the visual intimidation of the (apparently) small target:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/10qc9l0.jpg)
A sense of the contour over the bunker making it very difficult to get at this pin:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/i5t9no.jpg)
A view from the front of the green, giving a sense of the green slope back and left:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/142cwi1.jpg)
A view back to the 3rd green from the 4th tee and the bailout area they were referring to:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/4vi7ad.jpg)
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Jud:
I will be interested to follow this thread since I have not seen the course for two full years ... I haven't seen holes 13-17 with grass on them! For that matter, none of my crew have been back there since the grass hit the ground on the last hole. How did you like the paspalum for fairways and chipping areas?
P.S. I don't know who wrote the playing tips, but it obviously wasn't me.
Carl:
The first three holes depicted are holes 1, 6 and 7 from the plan you knew. The original 2-3-4-5 are back to desert ... at one time they were talking about digging out a harbor there, but cooler heads (and lack of money) prevailed. The four holes we added to replace them are the new 5th through 8th holes, which go off to the right after the old 8th (now 4th) green.
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At the end of January of 06, I spent 3 1/2 days there with Tom D, Brian Schneider, Brian Slawnik & Chad Grave as the prize for winning Golf Magazines Armchair Architect back in the previous fall. I just tagged along and asked an occaissional question. What I saw mostly was the front nine that got completely re-arranged over time to what it is today.
I hope you keep going on this thread as I am most interested in what happened on holes 9 through 12 over the most challenging portion of the property. Even as a hole that was only cleared, the 9th hole looked terriffic.
Carl,
Holes 9-12 ended up pretty good.
9 is a fun and tough uphill par 5, nothing forced as you climb the mountain.
10 is a rather mudane par three but but it serves as a nice connection between the tough 9th and the thrilling 11th
11 is a great short par 4. Potentially drivable but frought with peril from the hogback fairway to the green that runs away from the player. I was about 30 yards short and failed to hit the green that is wide open in front if that tells you anything... fun, fun, fun.
12 is anotherfun downhiller with the biggest drop occurring at about 310 or so allowing for a drive of upwards of 400 yards a real possbility but if not you have a nice diwnhill shot to the interesting green with plenty of movement.
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Jud - The pics do not do accurately depict #3 which I thought was a wonderful little par 3. The hole has much more character than the photos reveal.The green complex was hands down my favorite on the course.
Our new 7th and this hole, while in dramatically different settings, play somewhat similarly. Would you agree? (Even though it appears your tee shot at BDLS was not as fortunate as on our new 7th).
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Jud:
I will be interested to follow this thread since I have not seen the course for two full years ... I haven't seen holes 13-17 with grass on them! For that matter, none of my crew have been back there since the grass hit the ground on the last hole. How did you like the paspalum for fairways and chipping areas?
Tom,
I like the grass fine for both fairway and chipping areas, as long as a ground game option is available. It's a tough surface to have to hit a flop shot off of, but thankfully that was never the case. I also like the fact that there's no rough and errant shots can run off into bunkers or the desert on some holes. The paspalum I've seen at other courses that's grown as rough I don't care for so much...
One question, where was the local watering hole for the gang?
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Jud - The pics do not do accurately depict #3 which I thought was a wonderful little par 3. The whole has much more character than the photos reveal.The green complex was hands down my favorite on the course.
Our new 7th and this hole, while in dramatically different settings, play somewhat similarly. Would you agree? (Even though it appears your tee shot at BDLS was not as fortunate as on our new 7th).
Greg-
Interesting question. Certainly there's a lot more to the hole than what appears in the photos. Well, there was a lot more wind out on the beach at CDS #7. I guess I'd say that, while they're both very good short par 3's that you're more likely to have a wider range of scores at CDS both high and low than here, but there's no gimme pars on this hole. I'd love to go back and play it in a 2-3 club wind. I underclubbed and came up short, which is the tendency I think for those who don't know the course. This leaves a very difficult up and down from either the bunker or short of the green, at least to this pin location.
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Thanks for sharing, looking forward to the rest. Please send me the Salsa recipe!
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Hole #4:
Par 4, Blue-377, White-341, Red-309
Handicap 14
"Aim between the two bunkers for shorter hitters and take it over the bunker on the right side for those a little more daring and who want to have a wedge in. Long is dead, but there is plenty of room in front of this green if you don't feel like being aggressive."
From the tee:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/1625rao.jpg)
Zoomed in:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/3312c7o.jpg)
Right Fairway bunker:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/femjco.jpg)
Left Fairway Bunker:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2nm3mty.jpg)
View from the fairway. One of the more interesting driving holes:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/1ik8xg.jpg)
Approach zoomed in:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/119rvgz.jpg)
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Better look at the depression short of the green:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/rvbwhz.jpg)
Front-Right of green:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/30vdmiv.jpg)
Right side of green:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/i5sjrm.jpg)
Tom's famous lob wedge over the cactus in the bunker shot... ;D
(http://i51.tinypic.com/1zxqxa8.jpg)
Back Right of Green:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2ikdq3a.jpg)
Behind Green:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2a7h56v.jpg)
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Not clear to me that playing over the right bunker really gives you much of an advantage to this pin...
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Jud,
When I first commented on the cactus in the bunker the other day, I didn't recognize what course it was ... I only noticed it after your reply. But, I was happy to find out I was not a hypocrite on that front, anyway.
And no, playing over the right fairway bunker is no particular advantage on #4, other than you get a much wider fairway to aim at if you can carry it that far. In fact, it is more of a sucker play where the big hitters may not notice they should still go left.
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Hole #5: Par 4- Blue 401, White-350, Red-293
Handicap #16
"Aim for the bunker in the center of the fairway with the long ball and be left with a mid to short iron in. This green is very flat and has a false edge on the front. Be aggressive and go long if you need to, as it leaves you with a simple bump and run."
View from the tee:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2d0cbc4.jpg)
From the tee zoomed in a bit:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2hnp9y1.jpg)
View from the fairway:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2009usy.jpg)
Looking back at the tee from the fairway:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/35dbyvc.jpg)
Right fairway bunker (you can tell by now that I simply like the look of these things):
(http://i52.tinypic.com/xgigi0.jpg)
From behind left fairway bunker:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/4i2b0n.jpg)
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Fairway bunker short of green:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/kcau8l.jpg)
From right front of green:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/rkmyk7.jpg)
Right rear of green:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/10fs5dl.jpg)
Left rear of green. Few of us can consciously overclub to be long as it's so seldom the best option:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2ngbzmt.jpg)
Then of course one ends up here:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/rjm4pc.jpg)
False front of green. Steeper than it appears here:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/dylvn7.jpg)
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The green is not really flat, as I recall. It is very small and tilts pretty hard from front left to back right. It just doesn't have any noticeable internal contours.
This was the first of four holes we had to tack into the routing when the financial backing for the project (and the land planning) changed after we had already started construction. It's the one hole I was very sheepish about building, because if you can't tell from the pictures, we had to plow right through a veritable forest of cardones (big Saguaro cacti) in order to make a hole here. Most of them were transplanted to the entrance road corridor.
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It's the one hole I was very sheepish about building, because if you can't tell from the pictures, we had to plow right through a veritable forest of cardones (big Saguaro cacti) in order to make a hole here. Most of them were transplanted to the entrance road corridor.
I kind of wondered that -- it looks from some of Jud's pictures that this is tighter than the previous holes, with the cacti right up next to the playing corridors.
I have to say, this is one of the few desert courses I've seen that looks to have some interest. I really like the green surrounds.
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Hole #6- Par 5, Blue-522, White-482, Red-413
Handicap 8
"This uphill par five is easy off the tee. Aim for the lone cardon cactus at the top of the hill. Another wood or long iron anywhere but the bunkers will leave you with a short shot to this long but narrow green. Your Scottish bump and run skills may come into play here."
View from the tips:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/104ivpt.jpg)
from the whites zoomed in:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/a29dht.jpg)
from the fairway:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/i6xwdc.jpg)
fairway zoomed in:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/29wtix0.jpg)
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fairway bunkering short of green:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/34epbid.jpg)
approach from right side. hit what i thought was a perfect approach and ended up rolling down the big swale to the right:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/16azlau.jpg)
same shot zoomed in with a better view of the falloff:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/5048j9.jpg)
a sense of the elevation of the hole:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/35ip02e.jpg)
looking back down the fairway from the green:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/de8gec.jpg)
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Desert Courses always look tighter than they are....
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front right of green:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/dloww5.jpg)
back left of green:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2jcugk.jpg)
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Desert Courses always look tighter than they are....
Sean,
As opposed to some of the courses I played in Arizona, I didn't find that to be the case here. I'm guessing the restrictions on irrigated turf area aren't quite as strict in Mexico.
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Jud:
Actually, from what I've seen around Phoenix, I don't think many of the newer courses there push the envelope of the 90 acre limit on turf ... I think most of them are down around 75 acres, saving a lot of turf for a huge practice facility and maybe for grass around the clubhouse! But, you are right, there is no such rule in Mexico that I'm aware of, and we tend to build our courses wider than most people. I am not sure of the total irrigated area at Bahia de los Suenos, I never heard a final number from them.
That approach to #6 is tough because it's uphill even more than it looks ... without bunkers next to the green, it's difficult to judge. We thought about having some mowed rough up close to the green so a shot that just missed wouldn't come way back down the hill, but were not sure what the paspalum would play like at that height, so they are still mowing it all short for now. Someday I hope to get back and do some fine-tuning like that.
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Tom,
It's fine as it is IMHO. One just needs to learn to take an extra club there. I don't really care for the Paspalum as rough. I'd rather have a longer bump and run shot from down the hill than a hack and hope situation from greenside.
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Anyway, on to the course. This is not a walking course. Hell, you'd need a massage just humping it from the clubhouse to the first tee. Your cart comes with your own GPS gun, ballwasher, club cleaner, and a rake (a nifty cartball solution to the "where should the rakes be kept" argument). I suppose you COULD walk the course with some shuttling around, but I doubt that anyone does. Obviously there were some constraints in terms of proposed real estate lots which caused this routing, but they did a nice job of segregating the two elements, although it's a bit hard to tell as the only houses built thus far are near the clubhouse and there are posts and signs all over the place.
I'd like to get a better understanding of why the cartball strategy as the topography looks pretty flat. Tom, doesn't look like a lot of earth movement, but also doesn't look like very inspiring land - perhaps you could comment? Perhaps the photos don't do it justice; Jud, apologies for the insinuation.
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Henry,
It's quite a distance from the clubhouse to the first tee, and there are several long green to tee distances. This was, I believe, due to the proposed real estate element. As I stated, it's a bit confusing at the moment as there are signposts all over for the various holes and proposed real estate lots, so I'm not even sure how walkable it is in theory. (i.e. at the moment, you head down the road to the beach club for lunch or drinks at the turn which is quite a hike.) The holes themselves are certainly walkable. At the very least you'd need a shuttle to and from the clubhouse (as at Diamante) to consider walking, but again it was a bit of a maze finding your way around so I got a bit disoriented...The land is better than what the photos show, also the back nine heads into the hills into some more interesting topography...
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[/quote]
I'd like to get a better understanding of why the cartball strategy as the topography looks pretty flat. Tom, doesn't look like a lot of earth movement, but also doesn't look like very inspiring land - perhaps you could comment? Perhaps the photos don't do it justice; Jud, apologies for the insinuation.
[/quote]
Wait until hole 8, the topography is just warming up.
What I have noticed thus far is the attractive but non-terrifying bunkering. When I was there, Tom told me that he was not trying to do a "killer" course.
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Hole #7: Par 3- Blue-222, White 176, Red- 125
Handicap #2
"From the 175 yard range, this downhill par 3 offers a wide green. Short and right is best and gives you a chance to roll it on, but the bunkers on the left aren't too penalizing. If you go long, you will be on #8 tee box with an easy chip back. Take one club less for the downhill."
From the tee:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/1snvxe.jpg)
zoomed in:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/of21bn.jpg)
a bit further up:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/dyrgw4.jpg)
short left:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/xkt7uu.jpg)
some more nice bunkering:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2ytzbdf.jpg)
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the depression short of the green:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2hcgchw.jpg)
from the 8th tee overlooking the green:
seems like long is the play again...
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2814viu.jpg)
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Hole #8: Par 4, Blue 325, White 307, Red-286
Handicap 4
"The arroyo running diagonal through the fairway gives you two options. Play with a 220 yard club to the left side (STAY LEFT, OVER THE BUNKER ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE), or try to hit a 270 yard shot over to the right. The approach will be simple from either side, and the slopes in this green feed into the center most of the time, with a bailout area to the right. Anywhere but in the arroyo and you can make par."
A very fun hole. The wind off the bay can make both the tee shot and the approach pretty entertaining. Unusual to see a 325 yard par 4 as the number 4 handicap..
From the tee:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/33joilx.jpg)
Zoomed in. If you're not going to bomb one up the right side, line is just over the right edge of bunker on left:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2e6bfo4.jpg)
from behind bunker on left fairway:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2zppkhy.jpg)
from the left fairway:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2hi32g0.jpg)
zoomed in:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/6o1y0m.jpg)
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View from right fairway, a pretty good poke to get here into the prevailing wind:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2jfeq90.jpg)
Front of green. A sense of some of the green contour here:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/25ytxk8.jpg)
Judge the wind correctly or you may end up here:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2h6y1hg.jpg)
Better pic of left greenside bunker:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2lxtnjr.jpg)
front left of green:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/6rm5aq.jpg)
another view:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/11vip3s.jpg)
bailout area to right of green:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2u8dzb5.jpg)
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Lunch break at the beach club. Do I really need to get accosted by 2 separate groups of members about Michigan football, in rural Mexico? Might help if I didn't wear the hat. Only bummer was I couldn't enjoy a couple of Negro Modelo as I knew I'd be white-knuckling it back through the mountains to hit Cabo by sunset in a few hours. As with most places south of the border, the salsa is killer...
(http://i53.tinypic.com/dw6lx3.jpg)
View from the beach club bar. Not too shabby...
(http://i53.tinypic.com/11gq5jb.jpg)
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Is the Beach Club named "The Giggling Marlin"?
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It's called the 1535 Club...
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Is the Beach Club named "The Giggling Marlin"?
Carl, Used to be a night club/bar at the north end of the bay by that name. The name originates from one of the former investor's popular watering hole here in Cabo by the same name. The investor, Gary Wagner, is no longer involved and I believe the bar changed names as well.
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Hole#9: Par 5, Blue-533, White-517, Red-469
Handicap #18
"This short uphill par five requires an accurate drive, but the second shot opens up into a wide landing area leaving a simple third shot to the green (longer hitters can reach this in two depending on the wind). No trouble in front or right, so play it well and take advantage of this birdie hole."
View from the tee:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/fw0rad.jpg)
Zoomed in a bit:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/ogjr87.jpg)
Short of fairway bunker:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/1z4g9w2.jpg)
from fairway zoomed in:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/121wdoj.jpg)
View back toward the tee:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/fjhvl4.jpg)
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Approach shot:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2eee88w.jpg)
zoomed in:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/fk718k.jpg)
another view looking back down the fairway, notice the slope:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/15yt4ea.jpg)
from short of the green:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2ir20d1.jpg)
left greenside bunker:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/bfht91.jpg)
back left of green:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/25573up.jpg)
right of green:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/avifrs.jpg)
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Hole #10: Par 3, Blue 169, White 149, Red 105
Handicap #11
"Play this par 3 at the yardage you see despite being uphill a bit. This is a very large green not entirely visible from the tee, so be confident in your shot and, if anything, favor the left side."
From the tee:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/33lms6h.jpg)
Zoomed in:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/es0lr4.jpg)
Right greenside bunker:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2hx4xet.jpg)
Front-right of green:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2a9qvza.jpg)
Back left- greenside bunkering:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2cn9gdd.jpg)
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OK - Now it gets fun gentlemen.
I may have undersold BDLS. Going through this picture tour is reminding me of all of the good aspects of the golf course and the quality design that made the holes on the less compelling land fun to play.
The back nine is indeed excellent and to be honest the front is no slouch with #1 being the only somewhat boring hole... though the setting of the first tee is rather special.
Jud - Gun to your head and you had one round to play... Diamante or Bay of Dreams?
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1 round, probably Diamante. But as a club to join and play day in and day out, probably BDLS.
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1 round, probably Diamante. But as a club to join and play day in and day out, probably BDLS.
Interesting take - your lesser is more approach in terms of clubs is taking hold.
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Well ideally one would have a home at each...:)
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Hole #11: Par 4, Blue 352, White 335, Red 226
Handicap 13
"This is where things get interesting. This hole is visually deceptive, but there is actually plenty of room off the tee if you hit it around 260. Stay right of the bunkers lining the left side and you will have a short iron in. If you are a long hitter, an accurate draw off the tee will leave you with a chip and putt on this short, yet testy, par 4."
Bridge to #11 with green in the distance:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/10pzjut.jpg)
From the tee. One of the more demanding tee shots on the course with a bit of pucker factor:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/30m7db7.jpg)
Zoomed in:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/34hdpw5.jpg)
from beginning of fairway:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/10fc5c0.jpg)
Stay right or have enough carry otherwise you end up with this as your approach:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/11alwzq.jpg)
-
Approach from center:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2z7r251.jpg)
falloff on right side of fairway short of green:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/l8bae.jpg)
Bunkers short left of green. Reachable for the big hitter who tries to be aggressive and turns it a bit too much:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/29kpdeo.jpg)
Short left of green:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/blpwo.jpg)
front right of green:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2mqrfao.jpg)
from back of green:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/5fhzpe.jpg)
looking back up toward the tee (zoomed in). Who said this was a flat site again?
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2w1sd37.jpg)
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Hole #12: Par 4, Blue 497, White 464, Red 311
Handicap 1
"An intimidating tee shot leads to a wide open green at the bottom of this long and difficult par 4. Split the bunkers off the tee (for shorter hitters you can play out towards the right bunker and probably won't reach it, but splitting them is ideal). A good drive will set you up for a downhill approach."
View from the tee:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/e8n71g.jpg)
Zoomed in:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/e5p5c6.jpg)
Left fairway bunker:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2lv0mf6.jpg)
Approach shot:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/6put5x.jpg)
Zoomed in:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/w1qmg1.jpg)
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Another view to get a sense of the fairway movement here:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/efjbt0.jpg)
Short right of green:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2mrv97k.jpg)
zoomed in:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/m4k0h.jpg)
left side of green:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/1zh04sx.jpg)
front-left of green:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/b61v8k.jpg)
front-right of green, nice slope here one can use to feed the ball in:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/rsww2p.jpg)
looking back up fairway from green:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2u4u8gx.jpg)
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Hole #13: Par 5 Blue-518, White- 481, Red- 421
Handicap 15
"A straight forward par 5 heading towards the water offers great views and a fun hole. On your second shot, the bunkers short and right are not ideal, so favor the left side leaving an open shot into this green."
From the tee:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2jblhxk.jpg)
Zoomed in:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2ltgglt.jpg)
Looking back up towards the tee from fairway (zoomed):
(http://i56.tinypic.com/1zxmbn.jpg)
From fairway, a good poke to get home into the prevailing wind:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/20tpc3n.jpg)
Zoomed in:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/33tryh0.jpg)
from behind left fairway bunker:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/10fyyas.jpg)
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Approach from short left:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/30vbqbp.jpg)
time to flirt with the cacti?
(http://i52.tinypic.com/1z4a1s9.jpg)
fairway contour short left:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/ieny9c.jpg)
another view short right:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/zm1ue8.jpg)
fun approach from just short left:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2im84ef.jpg)
unfortunately I don't have any good shots of this green, apologies....
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If my memory serves me ....
Still pictures make it hard to understand the topography change from holes 9 through 12. Those holes go up from the beach, around, over and then down. Look at the picture of this hole of the shot back at the elevated tee. The 13th hole transitions back into a more gently sloping terrain back toward the beach.
Perhaps Tom may weigh in how he determined to route those series of holes over the more challenging terrain and the, I suspect, the insights or trade-offs necessary.
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Carl:
You are correct that the photos do not give a real sense of the elevation changes on these holes, which is hard to capture because of the scale of the place. The next green, #14, is right at the beach, and the eleventh tee is at 60 meters above sea level, so you're playing considerably downhill in this stretch -- and you had to play considerably uphill on holes 4, 9, and 10 to get up there to begin with.
The routing was not so hard to figure out. There is a 400-foot hill inside the golf course property, and we either had to get two holes (out and in) between the top of the hill and the bay, or we had to route a loop of holes up around the hill, to make room for a lot more housing with beachfront or bay views. It was pretty much understood when I signed the contract that the client wanted the latter. I explained to them that if we went that direction, the course would not have returning nines, because the loop going up and around the hill and back down to the beach and then out around the development was just too long for nine holes -- indeed, that loop itself is twelve holes: 3, 4, and 9-18. The routing you saw had a six-hole loop at the start of the round, but they later asked me to cut that off to just holes 1 & 2, and tack four holes into the routing at a later point.
Jud: Thanks for posting the pictures. Hopefully you'll have a little more commentary down the stretch about the holes you liked most or least, since I already know what they look like! ;)
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Tom,
You're not satisfied with the quick tips? 8) Favorites thus far are 2,3,8,9,11,12,13....One potential problem area. The area short and right of the green on 11. Balls hit here simply run down the hill into the desert. This area can come into play for the higher handicapper. If one doesn't hit a solid drive over the ridge and is faced with a somewhat long, uphill blind approach a layup hit right may catch the hill. Not sure what a possible solution would be, aside from significant recontouring, a huge bunker, or clearing more of the desert floor as you know I'm not keen on growing this grass out to rough length...
Also on #7, what's the deal with the runoff area short of the green? Is that for drainage during the rainy season?
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Jud:
There are all kinds of natural washes coming down the hill through nearly every hole from 4 to 18. Some of them we just grassed in because we don't expect them to carry too much dirt when it rains; others we left open because we were sure they would be gouged out deeply in a storm. These storms only happen once a year or once every 2-3 years ... it has to rain pretty hard, and that doesn't happen often in Baja, other than when a hurricane comes by. But you can't just ignore it, either.
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Hole #14: Blue-300, White-280, red-248
Handicap #17
"The "photo hole" is a short par 4 drivable for long hitters if you are downwind and a simple drive and pitch shot to the tiny green on the water's edge. Aim towards the right of the fairway for the best angle in, and there is plenty of room to the right of the green leaving you an easy chip shot if need be."
One of the more inviting tee shots on one of the more scenic holes you're going to find...
(http://i54.tinypic.com/165ezp.jpg)
zoomed in:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2e1vodl.jpg)
zoomed even more, a nice look at the fairway undulations...
(http://i56.tinypic.com/1zajps.jpg)
I like how the bunker work here blends so seamlessly with the desert:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/8xosd0.jpg)
approach. looks like a simple wedge, but I bet this can get pretty interesting when the wind is up..
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2wfu7nl.jpg)
short of the green. notice all the ground game movement here one faces when trying to bump and run one under the wind:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/148do60.jpg)
err right, but that's no bargain either...
(http://i52.tinypic.com/mt5fr7.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/29f85t4.jpg)
(http://i51.tinypic.com/nb44k8.jpg)
looking back up towards the tee:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/ofpr4k.jpg)
looking back across the bay toward the beach club:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/voorbb.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/oqepom.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/o9ibg0.jpg)
ok champ, you drove it pin high, how're you left?
(http://i55.tinypic.com/289c6mc.jpg)
another crappy view from the green...
(http://i53.tinypic.com/iqyj40.jpg)
-
Not sure I agree with the "easy pitch shot from right of the green" concept...
-
tom,
My memory may be at fault, but I thought at one point the 14th was a very long par 3. Or am confused with the 15th??
-
Carl, 16 is the long par 3, at least in the final routing....
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tom,
My memory may be at fault, but I thought at one point the 14th was a very long par 3. Or am confused with the 15th??
Carl:
You remembered correctly. Fourteen was originally going to be a very long par-3 with the green site just a bit forward and left of its present position.
When we had to change the routing, we added a new par-3 [hole #7], where none of the four holes removed from the plan were a par-3. So, we had five of them. I didn't really think anything about it for a while, but Brian Schneider was not fond of the par-3 14th, and suggested moving the green back and to the right to highlight it against the point, and make it a very short par-4. I think it was a great find and it will be a much more memorable hole this way. It has a very small green with quite a bit of movement to it, and getting close for a birdie will seldom be easy to do.
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Hole #15, Par 5: Blue-609, White-526, Red-509
Handicap 9
"A monster par 5. If you can keep it in the fairway on your first and second shots, you will still have a mid to short iron in to this flat and approachable green. Off the tee, aim towards the left hand bunker. On the second shot, hit it right towards the green with any wood you are comfortable with, and attack on your approach. Stay right, but even if you go left, an up and down bunker shot is not that difficult. Into the wind, this one will be brutal."
This hole indeed would be a bitch into the wind, but I gotta believe that the vast majority of the time it's downwind and is therefore quite manageable. I could even imagine the biggest hitters getting home in 2 with a 2 or 3 club wind behind them. I love how the mountains in the distance frame the ideal line off the tee.
View from the tee:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/qqqzo5.jpg)
Zoomed in view of landing area:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2qcduzt.jpg)
From fairway:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/23pf6p.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/au9mv8.jpg)
Some nice contour in the fairway that one can use:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2psr5n8.jpg)
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2u8cbgk.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/xfzw9f.jpg)
left-front bunker:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2zzn7nb.jpg)
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2drrvb4.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2lmba8l.jpg)
ball-cam from behind green:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/ifmsrd.jpg)
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2z8vy1h.jpg)
relatively flat by RGD standards, but still some subtle movement going on.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/16as9oj.jpg)
-
Hole 15:
When I was there in late January, each day the wind blew steadily out of the north. I think that would be into the wind on this hole. I would suspect that in the rest of the year it would be downwind.
Do I observe that the bunkering is getting more severe on the back nine?
It seems Tom & Team did a very good job of hiding the cart paths.
Tom, if you are reading this .... Is the bunker sand unique to Baja Cal?
Jud, how would you compare playing on paspalum (spelling?) with fescue, bent or bermuda?
-
Carl,
The paspalum is a pretty tightly knit surface. It's pretty good for a firm, fast ground game. It's not so good grown to rough length, particularly near the green as it grabs the club and thus doesn't really allow for any feel shots and the ball grabs, but that's not an issue at BDLS. Fescue it ain't but it's probably the best solution for this climate...
-
Trying to post the next hole...How come I can't click on the image icon? Anybody know the script to type it in offhand?
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Trying to post the next hole...How come I can't click on the image icon? Anybody know the script to type it in offhand?
Not working for me either. I believe the script is (http://) if you are trying to maintain the same size photos.
EDIT: Sorry, insert brackets for parenthesis: (img width=720)(/img)
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Hole #16: Blue-213, White-174, Red-137
Handicap 5
"The tee shot on this hole looks down over the green and the Bay in the distance. Play a club less depending on the wind and stay left. Remember, there is plenty of room left!"
This is a solid par 3 that could be a nice poke into the wind. Take a 3 here happily and move on. A cross wind off the bay makes it tricky as a low fade off the left bunker is what's called for. There's a slope long left which can be used depending on the pin placement.
From the tee:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/qyuvj8.jpg)
Zoomed in:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/10547c2.jpg)
Room for a low runner under the wind:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/wqv59g.jpg)
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2h4x8cn.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/4ijupd.jpg)
Looking back up at the tee:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/6toe91.jpg)
A cool green. Either run it up tight or veer off into 3-putt territory:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2nqs034.jpg)
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Hole #17, Par 4: Blue-458, White-441, Red-348
Handicap 3
"No trouble to worry about off the tee here. Step up and hit it hard. Not a long hole, but the elevated green makes a short approach the preferred route. Take enough club into the green, though, and aim toward the left side."
Not sure how a 458 yard par 4 with a hurting cross wind to an elevated green isn't considered a long hole for most...15-18 is a pretty tough finishing stretch, 609 yard par 5, 213 yard par 3, 458 yard par 4 and 432 yard par 4 with the wind likely hurting on 16-18. But these are also some of the best holes on the course.
From the tee:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/s1pxxc.jpg)
zoomed in:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/28hkl8m.jpg)
approach shot (zoomed in). Better angle from the left, but the fairway kicks everything right bringing the cactus into the line of play:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2cmn2gg.jpg)
Looking back up to the tee (zoomed in). Speed Slot?:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2rghvmh.jpg)
Short of green (zoomed in). Some nice ground game options here for those who inevitably come up short when the wind is up:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2e2i1hd.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/bgeac.jpg)
Right greenside bunker:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2zscw9e.jpg)
Back-right of green. Notice which way the flag is blowing...
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2m3qwm1.jpg)
Tough pin to get to:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/wi0neb.jpg)
-
Looking at 16 again brings back some thoughts on the par 3 holes.
I believe there are some design flaws on holes 7 and 16 as both can turn a relatively well struck shot into an unplayable second.
At 7 one could land on the green, trickle off the middle/back right edge and run into the desert and an unplayable lie.
Similarly at 16 if one hits a great shot to a far right pin and runs through the green it is a lost ball. Worse yet is that you are not afforded the opportunity to play safe as a shot played to the left side with a far right pin leaves a putt that is nearly impossible (if greens are running 10 it IS impossible) and could well run off the back and into the desert.
Don't get me worng, I like the course and love that type quirk for me but for the average player to hit a "career shot" only to get the ultimate penalty I question the design intent.
7 is indefensible (able???)
-
Greg,
I understand your point, but honestly how many amateurs are going to be long and right on a 220 yard par 3?
-
Hole #18, Par 4: Blue-432, White-404, Red-303
Handicap 7
"Whether you are into or with the wind, this is a challenging finishing hole despite the wide open fairway off the tee. Play towards the right side of the fairway for the shortest approach in, and take an extra club into this green and adjust for the wind. A large bailout area plays to the left and will leave you a chip down to the large green. Right side is difficult, so focus on getting over the ravine and staying left."
This is a fantastic finishing hole which is clearly one of the best holes on the course. With the fan on, this will challenge the best players. Also a great finish to a match when one needs to make par or birdie:
From the tee:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2u9itlf.jpg)
Zoomed in:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2j0z6fc.jpg)
Zoomed in further:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/ehgdht.jpg)
Fairway undulations:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/mw40ph.jpg)
Approach. Be aggressive or bail out left?:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/25tz2mx.jpg)
From left side of fairway. A bit more daunting from here:
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2qjw0w0.jpg)
Bailout area to left of green:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/x6fmag.jpg)
Looking back up towards the tee:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/9uan3b.jpg)
(http://i51.tinypic.com/343ht3m.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/n2y77m.jpg)
from bailout area:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/rvk66q.jpg)
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2d2d8hv.jpg)
-
Love the cacus in the bunker,it gives you something.There are many dangerous curves in Mexico.
Anthony
-
When I was there, Tom told me he was not trying to do a killer course. I think that goal has been achieved provided the player does not hit it sideways. It also seems that the first time player can play it effectively without a lot of local knowledge. The bunkers, while clearly strategic, do not look that penal.
It seems to be a pleasant walk through an interesting landscape. Jud, it seems like a good job hiding the cart paths??
Does anyone know how much play it is getting?
Is accessibility to the area holding that back?
-
Thank you for the photos - - the 18th hole looks terrific.
-
Carl,
There aren't full-fledged cart paths, just natural material around tees and greens. The place isn't getting much play. It was designed as a private real estate course with a high-end hotel component. It's 45 minutes from La Paz and 2:45 from downtown Cabo. While it isn't a killer course I think I actually scored as well or better at Diamante and Cabo del Sol Ocean, so it's not exactly a pushover.
-
Jud,
Thanks for the effort. The pictures and descriptions are fantastic. I have been lucky to find myself in Cabo each of the past three years. For the average tourist and not necessarily the GCA nut how is the trek between Cabo and BLS? I would love to check it out, but my normal travels in Cabo don't take me much outside the 'corridor'.
-
The sale of this facility just closed today.
New owner had a hand in a few Cabo developments/resorts. Will be interesting to see how it progresses. Wish them well.
-
News to me! But I guess that's why our client has been out of touch!
-
Tim,
The drive is fine, although it's easy to miss the turn off the highway. I wouldn't recommend it after dark as you're on twisty mountain roads. It's a long way for a day trip. Next time I'd spend a week in Cabo, then tack on a weekend here. Or simply buy a place here while the getting's good. :)
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Tim,
The drive is fine, although its easy to miss the turn off the highway. I wouldn't recommend it after dark as you're on twisty mountain roads. It's a long way for a day trip. Next time I'd spend a week in Cabo, then tack on a weekend here. Or simply buy a place here while the getting's good. :)
Tim,
Shoot me a PM and I would happily give you the skinny on the best way to make the trip and put you in touch with the guys up there for golf and accommodations.
"easy to miss the turn off the 'highway'" underscores Jud's sense of adventure. I have lived here for nearly a decade and traveled the road any number of times... would not bet you a margarita I would find it without stopping and calling. That said I can put you in touch with the guys up there whom will look after you. Heck if time allows I might even have my arm twisted into an over nighter with a quick 36 on the agenda.
-
Sir Tigerman,
Thank you for giving us a glimpse at The Bay of Dreams. It's amazing how much time goes into such posts.
Your effort is appreciated.
-
My pleasure. Yes, instead of getting 27 in I basically turned it into a 5 1/2 hour round of taking several hundred pix. But an interesting learning experience. In hindsight, I was too enamored of the look of the bunkers and didn't get enough green contours. Also it would have been smart to take some notes and hit a couple of balls from various spots (it wasn't like I was holding anyone up). But that probably would have required an overnight stay...
-
Tom,
You have made a few small comments about the course, but I think the bigger unanswered question(s) is how would you evaluate your & the team's effort here. I know the front nine got re-routed about twice.
Did you get a course close to your vision? Did you get enough out of the terrain? Does it take you a while to come a conclusion about these things?
-
Tom,
You have made a few small comments about the course, but I think the bigger unanswered question(s) is how would you evaluate your & the team's effort here. I know the front nine got re-routed about twice.
Did you get a course close to your vision? Did you get enough out of the terrain? Does it take you a while to come a conclusion about these things?
Carl:
It does take a while to come to a conclusion about such things, although one would hope I wouldn't approve holes for irrigation or grassing if I wasn't happy with them.
In the case of the Bay, I have not been back to the project in two years. They were having financial difficulty and could not pay expenses for us to go back and do the last of the bunker edging, etc., and I have not had any other reason to go to Mexico in recent months. So, as of today, I still haven't seen half the holes with grass on them, and it's impossible for me to answer your questions.
I'm sure someone will think it's crazy that I haven't gone back yet, but I've been quite busy with other things. And, to he who casts the first stone, please remember that Dr. MacKenzie never saw any of the following with grass on them: Royal Melbourne, Crystal Downs, Augusta National.
-
FYI-
If you'd like to view these pictures and more in large format, they're all posted, along with my Diamante pix, on Golf Architecture Pictures. A great resource for those who aren't familiar with it:
http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/Pages/countries.html