Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: PCCraig on September 30, 2010, 09:13:30 AM
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For the past month I have watched many of the hourlong Ryder Cup highlight videos Golf Channel seems to play pretty consistently once or twice a day. Considering we’re on the eve of the 2010 Ryder Cup in Wales I thought it would be fun to ask everyone’s opinion as to which Ryder Cup they consider to be the greatest, or most enjoyable to watch.
With continental Europe being included in the matches in 1979 the event has obviously become more closely matched and interesting to the casual viewer. I must admit to enjoying the recent replays from the great foursomes and fourball matches with Seve Ballesteros and José María Olazábal in the late 1980’s and early 90’s.
So which is it?
The 1969 event at Royal Birkdale where 18 of the 32 matches went to the 18th hole, and where Jack Nicklaus conceded a two foot putt for the first ever Ryder Cup tie?
Or the 1991 “War by the Shore” on the brand new Kiawah Island Ocean Course, where it came down to Langer’s putt on the 17th hole?
How about the big American comeback on Sunday at Brookline in 1999?
Or would it be the changing of the guard in 1987 at Muirfield Village as it was the first time the Ryder Cup was lost on American soil?
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I am biased, but 1985 at the Belfry will take a lot of beating.
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If one were to make a neutral evaluation, looking only for exciting golf, I would think the 1983 Ryder Cup would have to be a contender.
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Funnily enough I popped home at lunchtime and Sky were showing "Monty's Ryder Cup Memories" or some such other time filler. I caught it just as they showed his singles match in '91 when he was 5 down at the turn and 4 down with 4 to play but was gifted a half by Calcaveccia.
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Pat:
I think the '91 Ryder Cup was the most exciting -- hard to top the entire thing coming down the final stroke on the final hole in the final match (Langer's missed putt was on 18). Brookline '99 is a pretty close second, marred by the antics of the US after Leonard's putt, but a great tournament nonetheless.
I've long thought the '83 RCup was the most important one, however. Euro lost, and had no business being in the match. But they showed they could contend after years of getting swamped, and Jacklin brought a new kind of attitude toward the Euro side. The core of that team -- Faldo, Langer, Woosnam, and esp. Seve -- would do a lot to make the RCup what it is today. Since 1983, Euro has gone 8-4 in RCups.
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Any of the Ryder Cups that have ended within a point or so of each other and have come down to the very end must be in the mix. Recently, that would include 1983, 1991, 1995, and 1999. The matches in 1995 were big, if I remember correctly, because it was the first time the Euros won here in the US after being down entering the singles. It came down to Jay Haas against Philip Walton, and after being down 3 with 3 to go, Haas won holes #16 and 17. If he could win hole #18, he would halve the match and the US would retain. He stepped up to the 18th tee at Oak Hill and hit a very strange shot, a short and crooked pop-up. Walton made bogey, halved the hole, and won the match and the cup.
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Any of the Ryder Cups that have ended within a point or so of each other and have come doen to the very end must be in the mix. Recently, that would include 1983, 1991, 1995, and 1999. The matches in 1995 were big, if I remember correctly, because it was the first time the Euros won here in the US after being down entering the singles. It came down to Jay Haas against Philip Walton, and after being down 3 with 3 to go, Haas won holes #16 and 17. If he could win hole #18, he would halve the match and the US would retain. He stepped up to the 18th tee at Oak Hill and hit a very strange shot, a short and crooked pop-up. Walton made bogey, halved the hole, and won the match and the cup.
Wlaton was short of the green in two, and his chip up to the green missed the deep rough by about two inches. Might have lost the match if his ball had held up in the rough. And Strange -- a controversial captain's pick by his college buddy Wadkins -- came to the 17th tee 1 up, and walked off the 18th green having lost to Faldo, missing two putts within 8 feet of the hole on the last two greens. Strange went 0-3 that year. Faxon, maybe the best putter in golf at the time, missed about a 6-footer on the 18th green to lose his match to Gilford at a critical junction as well.
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I suspect your answer to this question probably will have something to do with what country you are from!!!
In my limited lifespan on planet earth, I would have to vote for the event at Brookline in '99.
I say this because my belief of what makes an event of this sort "great" or "the best" is a lot of drama.
The U.S. team was down and out, facing a huge deficit. Watching them rally and make that huge charge in the Sunday singles, capped by Leonard's bomb...well, I was jumping up and down. It was epic.
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Brookline '99 is one of the most exciting sporting events I've ever seen. Perhaps second only to the U.S. Hockey team 1980 Olympic victory...
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In my opinion, the best was 1983. Wadkins second shot on 18 was magical.
The worst was undoubtedly 1999 and the deplorable behavior of the US Team and the fans in Boston.
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In my opinion, the best was 1983. Wadkins second shot on 18 was magical.
The worst was undoubtedly 1999 and the deplorable behavior of the US Team and the fans in Boston.
I'm not disagreeing with you Jeffrey.....but fasten your seatbelts this thread is set to take off :D
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In my opinion, the best was 1983. Wadkins second shot on 18 was magical.
The worst was undoubtedly 1999 and the deplorable behavior of the US Team and the fans in Boston.
Jeffrey, decorum and etiquette aside, the behavior you're referring to was generated by some real excitement and sponteneity, both things sorely lacking in the week to week grind of pro golf...
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1991 was the first time I paid any attention to the Ryder Cup (and I've been hooked ever since).
It had it all--the great Seve and Ollie team was in full force; Azinger clashing with Seve; the Calc shank on the 17th hole and his debacle against Monty; and the drama of Langer and Irwin (who gets forgiven for playing some very sketchy golf down the stretch).
That's a tough one to beat.
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In my opinion, the best was 1983. Wadkins second shot on 18 was magical.
The worst was undoubtedly 1999 and the deplorable behavior of the US Team and the fans in Boston.
Jeffrey, decorum and etiquette aside, the behavior you're referring to was generated by some real excitement and sponteneity, both things sorely lacking in the week to week grind of pro golf...
Jud, I don't know whether you've ever attended the Players in Jacksonville.......it is four days of real excitement and sponteneity and guess what.....no deplorable behavior and bad etiquette from any of the spectators.
Does real excitement and spnteneity on the course make poor behavior acceptable? Just asking.
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Dean,
Not condoning the behavior, but the Players is a fart in the wind compared to the comeback of the century....
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Not sure what the best played Cup was, but 1983 is important because the golf was exciting, and because it was the first time a decent number of Americans actually paid attention to it. Before then, it was only an item in the football-filled sports sections.
ABC televised only a couple of hours on the third day, but it was close enough that there was a reason to watch. As mentioned, Lanny Wadkins' wedge to the last was as dramatic a shot as has been played in any golf competition ever – with a lightning bolt in the background to boot. Jack Nicklaus was so impressed, he kissed the divot and nicknamed Wadkins "wheelbarrow." You can guess why.
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Aside from the all the excitement etc, I was very impressed at Oakland Hills. Yes, it was a blowout, but the positive crowd atmoshpere was the first on US soil in many a year. I didn't see any extraordinarily poor behaviour or negative rooting. Perhaps this is in part due to the blowout and folks resigned themselves to watching and appreciating good golf regardless of the flag colour. Oakland Hills ushered in a kinder, gentler Ryder Cup crowd which makes an enormous difference for the vast majority of spectators.
Ciao
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Well, I'm pretty sure it won't be this one! I sure hope it comes down to a bunch of halved in-progress singles matches on Monday... can't beat that for excitement.
NEWPORT, Wales (AP) -- Rain or shine, the Ryder Cup will end at sunset Monday.
An extra day became a possibility Friday when rain drenched the Celtic Manor and suspended play before the opening match could complete six holes. With more rain in the forecast for the weekend, the Ryder Cup might not be able to finish until Monday.
According to the captain's agreement, the matches can't go any longer.
If all 28 matches are not completed by sunset Monday -- 6:43 p.m. local time -- the results of all the completed matches will stand, and any match still on the course will be declared a halve no matter what the score.
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I am thinking the 1927 event was the best. Actually I would bet the 1926 founding event was even better...
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What does this have to do with course architecture? Inane topic inviting inane responses.
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What does this have to do with course architecture? Inane topic inviting inane responses.
None of the responses are more inane than yours.
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What does this have to do with course architecture? Inane topic inviting inane responses.
None of the responses are more inane than yours.
It's not that often that I agree with Pat but I completely agree here.
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The 1999 event was a shameful display with the antics on the 17th, the crowd abuse against Monty which led the late Payne Stewart to intervene and a marshal deliberately misleading Coltart about the position of a lost drive, among other issues.
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a marshal deliberately misleading Coltart about the position of a lost drive, among other issues.
That is a flat-out lie and you know it. Read Ben Crenshaw's book for an explanation.
I won't defend the reaction on 17 on Sunday. I think the crowd abuse against Monty is what it is. The Americans have never been very nice to Monty, and Monty has never been nice to anyone. I can't say I feel that bad for Monty.
Though I have only read about it, the 1969 Ryder Cup was certainly the most legendary. I believe it was Dave Hill and Bernard Gallagher who got into fist-fight after a disagreement about a missed putt.
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I think the crowd abuse against Monty is what it is. The Americans have never been very nice to Monty, and Monty has never been nice to anyone. I can't say I feel that bad for Monty.
Thank goodness for all concerned, then, that he was playing a gentleman like Payne Stewart, who understood the abuse for what it was. The crowd abuse towards Monty was inexcusable and your rather sad, rather spiteful justification of it does not do you any credit.
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I think the crowd abuse against Monty is what it is. The Americans have never been very nice to Monty, and Monty has never been nice to anyone. I can't say I feel that bad for Monty.
Thank goodness for all concerned, then, that he was playing a gentleman like Payne Stewart, who understood the abuse for what it was. The crowd abuse towards Monty was inexcusable and your rather sad, rather spiteful justification of it does not do you any credit.
Apologies Mark. I've witnessed multiple occasions where Monty has been downright rude. I think I agree that the crowd abuse against Monty was uncalled for. However, I don't think I can feel much sympathy for him.
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My faviourite Ryder Cup that I have watched was that at Oakland Hills in 2004 – where a Langer team thrashed the USA on their home soil.
I was living in England at the time and it was one of very few times that I found myself cheering for pommies in a team ;)
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1995: Oak Hill if you're a Euro fan.
The crumbling of the US psyche was amazing.