Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Dean Stokes on October 21, 2009, 07:13:48 PM
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I know we have gone round and round about slow play, but I have to bring it up again after today's experience.
I am caddying for a friend in first stage q school. Beautiful weather, good golfers, we didn't look for one ball and were rarely held up by the group in front.
Five hours twenty minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely ridiculous.
And don't anyone give me the old line that they are playing for their careers. You can focus, try hard and succeed round eighteen holes in less than four hours.
Something has to be done. Where are the officials? Where are the penalties?
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Until they start actually assessing stroke penalties, these guys will take as much time as they want and we'll all suffer as a result.
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And the course is free of blame ?
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Certainly not but here we're talking about tournament golf
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The only blame goes on the officials.
Slow play will continue until they start nipping it in the butt!!
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The course is too long. It used to be that Dr. Mac could get around a course in 2 hours. Then the R&A and the USGA lost control of the ball.
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And the course is free of blame ?
??????????????
PS these kids are hitting it 340 off every tee. Unbelievable. Bombs away these days.
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Dean - I'm scared to ask - was this a 3'some or a 4'some?
Ian
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And the course is free of blame ?
??????????????
PS these kids are hitting it 340 off every tee. Unbelievable. Bombs away these days.
340 / 240 = 1.42
5:20 /1.42 = 3:45, i.e., 3 hours 45 minutes. The ball has let them hit it farther. Hitting it farther has caused owners to increase the length of the courses. The course is too long. Back in the good old days the pros could get around in 3:45.
;)
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And the course is free of blame ?
??????????????
PS these kids are hitting it 340 off every tee. Unbelievable. Bombs away these days.
340 / 240 = 1.42
5:20 /1.42 = 3:45, i.e., 3 hours 45 minutes. The ball has let them hit it farther. Hitting it farther has caused owners to increase the length of the courses. The course is too long. Back in the good old days the pros could get around in 3:45.
;)
Garland,
Without starting an argument, the course is definitely not too long. My player only hit three drivers because driver was too much!!! They are hitting irons into par fives and wedges into many par fours.
They all had caddies so the yardages were done in quick time. It just takes so long to pick clubs, work out which shot to hit and generally just to do anything!!!!! Then you get to the green...............
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And the course is free of blame ?
??????????????
PS these kids are hitting it 340 off every tee. Unbelievable. Bombs away these days.
Incredible. I am going to have to dig in the archives, where there are a number of discussions with many posters scoffing at the notion of golfers ever being able to carry it 300 under neutral conditions, and arguing that it was probably outside the realm of technology and human capabilities. And this website hasn't been around that long.
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Dean,
The purpose of emoticons is to say I'm not arguing about anything.
But, then you knew that. ;)
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And the course is free of blame ?
??????????????
PS these kids are hitting it 340 off every tee. Unbelievable. Bombs away these days.
Incredible. I am going to have to dig in the archives, where there are a number of discussions with many posters scoffing at the notion of golfers ever being able to carry it 300 under neutral conditions, and arguing that it was probably outside the realm of technology and human capabilities. And this website hasn't been around that long.
Anyone scoffing at those distances just don't know. Those distances have been available for decades for people using persimmon even.
There have been several people on this site that have testified to it being so for players in the 70s using TopFlites in tournaments. However, such players seldom won anything.
I'd toot my own horn, but Kalen has a special word for me when I do.
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Dean,
The purpose of emoticons is to say I'm not arguing about anything.
But, then you knew that. ;)
I had a couple of glasses of red tonight and missed the emoticon. Apologies.
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Dean - I'm scared to ask - was this a 3'some or a 4'some?
Ian
3'somes.
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Golf Digest had an article lamenting 5 hour rounds awhile ago...
oh yeah, it was an article in an issue from the 1960s, which i happened to see in an antique store recently
slow play is here to stay, so i must conclude, until the regulating bodies take it seriously
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Something has to be done. Where are the officials? Where are the penalties?
Dean , after reading your posts , I would like to ask you , (apart from this thread) what did you do about the slow play ?
Also , I cant find anything in your posts , that gives a reason for the slow play , apart from no officials , and no penalties ?
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I am going to assume that the major chunk of time was taken on and around the greens? There weren't any rulings in the group?
The John Fienstein book on Q school is a good read and he describes a tournament where the director basically said he wasn't going to assess any penalties because "these guys are playing for their livelihoods" and yada yada yada. I think it was Dillard Pruitt if I remember correctly.
-- rob
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Something has to be done. Where are the officials? Where are the penalties?
Dean , after reading your posts , I would like to ask you , (apart from this thread) what did you do about the slow play ?
Also , I cant find anything in your posts , that gives a reason for the slow play , apart from no officials , and no penalties ?
I will answer your question with a question Brian. What would you like me to do? I am a caddy. Therefore I do not suggest to my player or group that he/they speed up. What do you suggest I do?
Let me TELL you the reason the rounds take so long. Slow players, over analysing everything, pre shot routines from hell. There are plenty of officials but obviously the powers that be do not care about slow play.
Today was only 5 hrs 10 mis. Things are speeding up! By saturday we may break 5 hours!
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I am going to assume that the major chunk of time was taken on and around the greens? There weren't any rulings in the group?
The John Fienstein book on Q school is a good read and he describes a tournament where the director basically said he wasn't going to assess any penalties because "these guys are playing for their livelihoods" and yada yada yada. I think it was Dillard Pruitt if I remember correctly.
-- rob
I guess what that tournament director was saying then, is that if one group, maybe the lead group felt like playing in 8 hours because they are playing for their livelihood, tough luck to everyone behind them. Seems like a good policy >:(
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I am going to assume that the major chunk of time was taken on and around the greens? There weren't any rulings in the group?
The John Fienstein book on Q school is a good read and he describes a tournament where the director basically said he wasn't going to assess any penalties because "these guys are playing for their livelihoods" and yada yada yada. I think it was Dillard Pruitt if I remember correctly.
-- rob
I guess what that tournament director was saying then, is that if one group, maybe the lead group felt like playing in 8 hours because they are playing for their livelihood, tough luck to everyone behind them. Seems like a good policy >:(
Dean,
I agree...at some point the madness has to stop. Sure its 5.5 hrs now, but if this same mentality persists, we aren't too far away from the 6-7 hr round at Q school.
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Let me TELL you the reason the rounds take so long. Slow players, over analysing everything, pre shot routines from hell. There are plenty of officials but obviously the powers that be do not care about slow play.
Including your "friend" ?
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Kalen,
I have played in a 6 hour tournament and heard of others that have. Until the lead groups are monitored and penalised and held accountable for their speed, nothing will be done.
And you know what I think i have figured, it IS now the norm to expect 5.40 for a tournament round. The players moan occasionally but ACCEPT it. Maybe I shouldn't care either but I am a part of it and it really bothers me that we can be on a golf course for so long.
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Let me TELL you the reason the rounds take so long. Slow players, over analysing everything, pre shot routines from hell. There are plenty of officials but obviously the powers that be do not care about slow play.
Including your "friend" ?
He is actually a fairly speedy player. Where are you going we these odd questions Brian? I get the feeling you are going to start telling me it's the caddies fault soon. Should be fun!