Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Mike Hendren on January 16, 2009, 05:01:21 PM
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I noted this course being mentioned as an add-on for the Kingsley Club event. I had the good fortune of playing Black Diamond Ranch last year with the head professional Lynn Janson, a fine gentleman with plenty of game. He is acquainted with Mike DeVries and I mentioned hoping to play Kingsley Club one day. After encouraging me to do so Lynn absolutely RAVED about Belvedere being nearby.
Any insight beyond the club's web-site?
Mike
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Michael, Belvedere is often mentioned on a short list of courses worthy of seeing in Michigan. What's interesting is who makes these said recommendation.
I'd categorize them as sophisticated.
While I did not play it, I did a quick tour and appreciated what looked like a solid fun golf course. Filled with "little things" those who need to be wowed, would likely gloss over, ultimately considering it no big deal.
In that sense, it is a course that could be much better than it's current presentation. If you do stop by, make sure to look at the old aerial in the pro shop, and, then imagine what could be again.
There should be several old threads on this course.
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Thanks, Adam. I should have indeed searched the site before popping off:
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36673.0.html (http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36673.0.html)
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,330.0.html (http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,330.0.html)
Hope you're well.
Mike
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Belvedere is a wonderful course. A Doak associate (name escapes me) is restoring some of the Willie Watson features, though I don't know how far along he is.
Other than Crystal Downs, Belvedere is a great choice for a group from the treehouse.
Bob
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I haven't played there, but understand it has been the long time host of the Michigan Amateur or Open or some other annual event.
There is a whole lot of very good golf in that area, starting of course with Crystal Downs and Kingsley Club. I really like Forest Dunes, and there is a lot to love at Arcadian Bluffs.
And some decent restaurants in Traverse City. I'd love to get back up there this summer.
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Put me down as a huge Belvedere fan! What a absolute fun course to play. I would gladly play it again.
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I like Belvedere quite a bit. Understated is the word I'd use to describe it. It has plenty of strategy and plenty of options. The only knock on Belvedere, as Ed Getka put it last time we spoke, is that the greens dont measure up to the rest of the course. They tend to be less interesting than the rest of the course and especially so considering it is often grouped in with Crystal Downs, Kingsley and High Pointe among us treehouse folk (and those like us).
Still, great course and I'm happy to be just a few minutes down the road from it during the summers.
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a pretty good course but definitely not great...Doak gave it a 5, that's about right, i think
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A marvelous afternoon of fun.Rating OK but not required.
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Belvedere is a course I think would be great to introduce your kids to the game. The setting is fantastic, the land is pretty interesting in spots, there are some good holes, but my overall impression was why the heck do people rave about this course.
Fortunately we had a glorious day and had the course to ourselves (the last day of the season). However, at the end of the day I was bummed that I could have golfed 36 holes at High Point, Kingsley or Crystal Downs instead.
It shouldn't be long before Tom Huckaby chimes in. :)
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Bogey,
I'd put it this way.
If the pictures in that first thread you found on your search appeal to you, then I would very much agree and happily send you to Belvedere.
It's Hidden Creek subtle X 2, with bunkers that look more Olympic Lake simple than Hidden Creek hairy.
The land is a bit more interesting than HC, but there are few man-made features and none of them scream for attention. A few of them do whisper in your ear, however.
If you're a TRUE fan of Pinehurst, and not just of the Pinehurst reputation, you would likely enjoy Belvedere.
Ed is right that it is a course where one might easily look around and say, "what's all the fuss"?
Yet, I believe the real beauty of Belvedere is that it doesn't make the answer to that question obvious in the first place.
Hope that helps.
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Mike D. steered us there last September during our visit to northern Michigan. Belvedere is a splendid course. I don't think those of us on the trip had any regret that we played it instead of our originally planned round at Arcadia Bluffs. It's a load of fun.
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I try to play it at least once a year....love the place.....
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Bogey
If you are on an extended trip (say 5 days) of the northern Lower, than I believe Belvedere is a must see not only because of the convenience of its location in relation to other must sees. Its old time golf and something archies should look toward as an example of frugal design which is easy to maintain and is yet interesting to play. If time is limited, hit Belvedere on your next trip.
Ciao
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Belvedere is a perfect stop for a GCA group. It did indeed rate a Doak 5, which I agree is about right. It would merit a higher rank on "charm" factors and perhaps a lower rank on some "challenge" factors. The constantly repeated story is that Tom Watson's family regularly summered away from the Kansas City heat at a cottage in the Charlevoix area, and Tom played Belvedere often, and calls it one of his favorites. The story is no doubt true, but probably a little threadbare too. I am glad that someone in the Doak firm is looking after it.
For many years, the Michigan Amateur was contested over two courses in northwest Michigan. Medal play qualifying was held at Antrim Dells (south of Belvedere), with match play conducted at Belvedere. And that, I thought, was a very good way to conduct the competition. (Other formats and locations have been utilized in subsequent years; with the wealth of choices of northern Michigan resort courses, there were other course options with more convenient and modern accomodations and accoutrements.) I think that GCA visitors will be very admiring of the test that Belvedere can provide as a match play course. "A fine little course" is how Mr. Doak described it.
(By the way, if you have the time, there is no reason to avoid Antrim Dells. Tom Doak accurately described it as "A well-liked public course... with a few good holes..." with some "sameness" to perhaps too many of them with flanking bunkers. A Doak 4. Antrim Dells' back nine winds through some spectacular woods and is a dleightful tour if not an inspiring golf course architecture tutorial.)
Dunmaglas is another course nearby to Belvedere that is worth seeing if you have the time. Also a Doak 5, it merited some discussion in The Confidential Guide.
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Belvedere is quite the mix of simplicity and fun. It's also a top 100 vibe kind of place. The tiny golf shop was a good sign.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/belvedereshop.jpg)
Here's a look at the tee shot on the first hole. It's 370 yards and appears to be an easy start.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010115.jpg)
And the approach shot on the first. I really liked how the fairway sloped from right to left and pretty much blended into the hillside. Makes that front left greenside bunker really stand out.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010117.jpg)
Here's the first hole from behind the outstanding first green. This green was a good introduction to the rest of the course as they were all quite interesting and fun to putt.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010119.jpg)
Here's the first green from the 9th tee. Note the way short left balls get funneled back to the bunker.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010138.jpg)
The fourth green viewed from #1 tee.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010116.jpg)
The fourth is a 200+ yard par three. This photo is from about 40 yards short of the green. I really like the setting of this green.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010126.jpg)
A few pictures from the seventh. It's about a 430 yd uphill climb to another great green.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010133.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010134.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010135.jpg)
Can't decide if I like the solitary tree behind the 8th green or want to get rid of it.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010136.jpg)
I'll post more photos later if you're interested.
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John,
I'd love to see a few more photographs. Regardless of how "good" the course it, it would appear to fit right into my wheelhouse.
MIke
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Wow. The course is looking very good indeed in those pictures (which are also good.) I confess to having seen nothing of what Renaissance Golf Design has done there. But whatever is going on, it is good. Not surprising, either.
btw -- The moment that Geoff Shackelford introduced his new blog feature, "Golf As It Was Meant To Be Played," about a week ago, I immediately e-mailed to him one nomination from the state of Michigan: Belvedere.
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John,
Please post at least one picture of each hole if possible. You sort of cherry-picked most of the interesting spots on the course. :)
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The only knock on Belvedere, as Ed Getka put it last time we spoke, is that the greens dont measure up to the rest of the course. They tend to be less interesting than the rest of the course...
JC (and Ed),
I couldn't disagree more. My thoughts of Belvedere were the exact opposite. I thought the greens (for the most part) really defined and made the course.
I think Belvedere has a really great set of "old feeling", undulating greens. Some good one off the top of my head (I've only played the course once): 1, 4, 6, 7, 9!, 10, 11!!!, 16.
Belvedere is a fun, interesting, and charming golf course. It will never knock anyone's socks off, however I think it is a course that would grow on you more and more as your rounds there increase.
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I must confess to having never played here although it's been on my radar for like 6 years.
One quick comment, the pictures (albeit there are only a few) on first glance appear to resemble Muskegon CC. I wonder if anyone who's played both can comment?
John,
Please post more pictures. I'm not sure I've ever seen much of the course via photograph, but have actually recommend the course to friends based on word of mouth from the people I trust; namely this website.
Nev
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Maybe I've got my holes confused, but I remember the 17th as having a green benched into a hill, set at an angle to the fw. I thought it a terrific par 4. But I imagine it wouldn't show well in a photo.
There are many holes like that at Belvedere. Willie Watson relied a lot on contour and that is hard to capture in a picture.
Not a course that will make you forget Crystal Downs, but a wonderful classic Golden Age course that surely rates better than a Doak 5. Definitely worth a visit if anywhere nearby.
Bob
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Played there last year and I liked the layout and most of the holes however there were a few holes that IMO felt like a goat track (2, 3, 5). I'm glad the course picked up because after the 3rd hole I thought "this place is so overated." The back is much more interesting and I did like the green complexes, although the day I played it they were like at a 7 on the stimp. My overall assessment as a Classic course is that it is solid and in Northern Michigan is certainly one of the better older courses. I did get the feeling the more I played the more I would like it. The special thing about the course is the use of the cliffs on the front nine (holes 1 and 9) and then on the back the use of the topography and undulating ground. There are some great risk reward holes on the back too (#16 short par 4 and #15 short par 5).
Dave mentioned Muskegon CC and there are a lot of similarities (elevated tees, feel of the course) but I think Muskegon is a little bit better track. Sorry but the pictures I'm posting are all I have. The first three are of number 9 and the last one of number 10 approach. I was playing with some clients the day I played and didn't have time to act like Mr. Wang taking pictures of the parking lot and all.
(http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq233/cencibri/IMG_1552-1.jpg)
(http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq233/cencibri/IMG_1553.jpg)
(http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq233/cencibri/IMG_1554.jpg)
(http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq233/cencibri/IMG_1555-1.jpg)
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Maybe I've got my holes confused, but I remember the 17th as having a green benched into a hill, set at an angle to the fw. I thought it a terrific par 4. But I imagine it wouldn't show well in a photo.
I'm pretty sure you're referring to #16. 17 is a par three parallel w/ the road.
George
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Thanks George. I stand corrected. I was thinking of the 16th. A bugger of a little hole.
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Doc,
Looks like you double crossed that tee shot as I'm pretty sure I can spot your DT SOLO laying in the right FW bunker. I really got the MCC feel from the picture taken from the back of the first green. Are the greens relatively small like MCC? Thats a course that doesn't get much attention, but is a personal favorite of mine.
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It is interesting how much love this course gets based on having about 9 good to excellent holes.
We were quite excited when we drove up and you see the property movement on either side of the road. We played the first and I was salivating about how great of a day it was going to be. Then #2 is just dead flat with a little burn that really isn't in play off the tee unless you are really short, the green is pretty flat and has some pointless mounding around its periphery as I remember it. #3 comes back up parallel to #2 and again is flat with a slight rise up toward the green which is near #1 green. Then you turn right and play #4 which parallels #1, back towards the clubhouse. #4 is a very solid par 3 of which John has a picture posted. Really nice movement to the green and my hopes rose again. #5 is a pretty flat par 5 without anything to think about on the 2nd shot except for hitting it. The burn does cross at some point, but I don't remember it being where it gave me pause on my tee shot or second shot. I can't really remember which hole came next. I think it is one that goes out and turns almost 90 degrees right and then heads uphill pretty significantly. Then if I remember right the toughest hole of the front nine came which was a par 4 that had a slightly uphill drive up onto what felt like a spine of land and left a pretty long approach if memory serves. At least for my paltry drive. :) #8 is just a little par 3 with a decent green but is so short that it is pretty boring. #9 I liked quite a bit as it doglegged right around a drop in the land down to #1. There were too many bunkers, and they were too shallow IMO, but the hole had an optical quality that I found very interesting that made it hard to tell how far features were and made it difficult to judge how aggressive to be with your shots. I really liked the green on this hole, certainly one of the best on the course. So thinking back over the front nine I really liked #1, 4, 7, and 9. #6 was pretty interesting too with the rising land on the second shot.
I really liked the hole on the back nine that BCrosby mentions (#16) as well as the one that headed uphill towards the clubhouse early on the back nine (#11 I would imagine). #15 was a pretty interesting hole too with a big dogleg right that dropped down into a wide meadow area.
So yes there are some interesting things to see at Belvedere but I wouldn't rave too much about the place and raise expectations too high. It is a beautiful setting up above the lake that you see in the distance, it is maintained well, and as I mentioned I think it would be a great course to grow up on learning the game. However, there are a number of courses I have played or seen in Michigan that I thought more highly of. CD, Kingsley, High Pointe, Angels Crossing, The Mines, Lost Dunes (for the greens) are all courses I would choose to play before Belvedere.
I think you just need to go to Belvedere with appropriate expectations, because it is worth seeing, I just don't think it is a must see. IMO.
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Ed G, et al - thanks for a good thread. A number of you have said, in essence, that the Doak 5 score/rank that Belvedere gets is fair, and just about right. I'll assume that's true. But it got me to thinking:
If Belvedere is a Doak 5, I say "Hail to the Doak 5s! May they live long and prosper (as indeed they will)!" The Doak 5s. Sturdy. Dependable. The great character actors of the golfing world: Allan Hale Sr., Cedric Hardwicke, Whit Bissell. Better than the 3s and 4s; less neurotic and anxious-to-please than the 6s and 7s (always hoping as they are to one day be 8s). Low-maintenance. Democratic. Populists - like a good Frank Capra picture. Not wholly reviled or ignored like the 1s and 2s; not excessively praised and idolized like the 9s and 10s. The highschool sweetheart. The blocking full-back. The bass player for The Who. The 5s. The happy 5s. The band of brothers. Quiet utilitarians: offering the greatest good for the greatest number. Safe and Secure - too successful and frequently played to be torn up, too modest to be fought over and restored. In the calculus of golfing pleasure for golfers everywhere, it may be that the Doak 5s reign supreme!
Peter
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Damn Peter, your talent for words makes this site a pleasure on a cold-ass winter day here in the northeast.
Put me down for another fellow admirer of the Doak 5's ;)
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Well thank you, Scott. I'm just trying to keep my fingers warm...
And here's hoping Jim Thompson sees your thread. I miss his posts, and I'd be interested in getting is views on Belvedere
Peter
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Michael, Belvedere is often mentioned on a short list of courses worthy of seeing in Michigan.
Hiya Adam;
Couldn't help picking out this part of your comment. It's just that, of all states, I cannot categorize a SHORT list of must plays in Michigan. It is simply an entire state full of riches. Of course, we all define 'worthy' differently, and I do not have your experiences. But I still venture I could list more than a short few you would be glad to have experienced. And Greywalls is on it! Be there.
Aside from that, wanted to say hello again to an old friend.
Doug
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I think it would be absurd to tell anyone to pass up a once in a lifetime opportunity to play Crystal Downs or Kingsley - or even to pass up a second round on either - to play Belvedere. I don't think anyone here is saying that. If you've got a free day in the area, I thought Belvedere / High Pointe made for a great day!
For me, the love of this course was above the green complexes. I recall #1, #4, #6, #7, #11, #12, #13, #16, #17, and #18 being really cool, and there were some others mixed in that were pretty darn good. If 9 really cool green complexes and a short par 4 that Tom Watson calls one of his 10 favorite short par 4s in the world (at least so says the guy at the counter) isn't worth a half-day, then you've got a pretty good itinerary so you won't miss a thing!
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Doc,
Looks like you double crossed that tee shot as I'm pretty sure I can spot your DT SOLO laying in the right FW bunker. I really got the MCC feel from the picture taken from the back of the first green. Are the greens relatively small like MCC? Thats a course that doesn't get much attention, but is a personal favorite of mine.
That is my ball in the bunker but that bunker is about 270 yards off the tee. #9 there is a par 5. Actually hit it out of that bunker to about 10 yards short of the green.
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3 JACK? :D
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John,
Please post at least one picture of each hole if possible. You sort of cherry-picked most of the interesting spots on the course. :)
I didn't have time to upload and post any more pics than I did. Here are a few more. Be warned, though, that I tend not to take pics of the least interesting spots on courses that I visit. ;D
Some of the holes are clearly inferior to the others, but I think the greens kept interest throughout. Here's the second hole tee shot. The little burn isn't really in play. The hole's about 400 yards and really flat.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010120.jpg)
Boring hole, except take a look at this green, viewed from short and left.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010123.jpg)
Tee shot on the third. A similar distance to 2 going back towards 2 tee. The burn is a little more in play on this tee shot. A well placed bunker on the right side encourages you to play more up the left side where the burn is a bit more of a carry. If you hit the tee ball solid, though, you should be fine.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010124.jpg)
No pics of the third green. Here's the tee shot on 4. 220 yard par 3. You can see the clubhouse at the top of the hill.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010125.jpg)
Fifth hole is a 540 yard par 5 with the burn in play again. Approach looks pretty boring. I remember this as the blandest of the holes.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010128.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010130.jpg)
I mislabeled the 7th hole earlier as #6. I'll fix that shortly. Here's the sixth.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010131.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010132.jpg)
Already posted photos of the 7th & 8th. Here's the tee shot on the 9th. It's a par 5 back up the hill that measures a little under 500.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010139.jpg)
Bunkers on the right side of the fairway.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010140.jpg)
Another fun green from front and rear.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010141.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010142.jpg)
We'll cross the road to the second 9 shortly.
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John, very nic pics-wish I would have found time to join you guys for a game at Belvidere. Jack
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I would recommend Belvedere quite highly. My rating of it from The Confidential Guide was based on a visit in the early 1980's (the first time I went to Crystal Downs) ... it is much better looked after today, and might get a 6 if I were still doing that sort of thing.
Bruce Hepner has been consulting there for several years now. I just go play it once every summer.
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I would recommend Belvedere quite highly. My rating of it from The Confidential Guide was based on a visit in the early 1980's (the first time I went to Crystal Downs) ... it is much better looked after today, and might get a 6 if I were still doing that sort of thing.
Bruce Hepner has been consulting there for several years now. I just go play it once every summer.
Tom,
What qualities of the course or features in particular lead you to recommending Belvedere quite highly?
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Glad to see the bunkers restored for the tee shot on #7. It would be great if the bunkering on 16 was done.11 would also be a good one. Get that triangular shape back in the green and the front right bunker. Of course you can go around the whole course, hole by hole, and wish.
They should focus on getting the holes 1, 11, and 16 done first as per the 3 drawings in Golf Architecture in America.
8 would be a good one. I think the original green reached that single tree behind the green. Obviously that tree should go.
Found the 1938 aerial
(http://www.hickorygolf.com/dl/Belvedere1938-low.jpg)
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Ok...that's pretty freaking cool.
Obviously, the bunkers that exist at Belvedere today that I compared on an earlier thread to something like Olympic Lake's bunkers bear no resemblance to what was on the ground back in the late 30s.
I'm curious if Olympic Lake's bunkers today look anything they did back then, as well? .
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The original bunkering at Belvedere was supposed to have been done by Billy Bell. Was he involved at Olympic?
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One more photo.
This is the 16th green. There are supposed to be three bunkers around the right side at the bottom. I assume that whole slope would have been mown to fairway height. The 16th runs along the top right in the aerial.
(http://www.hickorygolf.com/dl/Belvedere16.jpg)
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The original bunkering at Belvedere was supposed to have been done by Billy Bell. Was he involved at Olympic?
Ralph,
I wasn't aware of Bell's involvement at Belvedere, but after seeing your aerial I'm not surprised.
Do you know much about the history of Charlevoix GC, where Watson also is credited, although my understanding is that golf was played there as early as 1898.
Thanks!
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The original bunkering at Belvedere was supposed to have been done by Billy Bell. Was he involved at Olympic?
Ralph,
I wasn't aware of Bell's involvement at Belvedere, but after seeing your aerial I'm not surprised.
Do you know much about the history of Charlevoix GC, where Watson also is credited, although my understanding is that golf was played there as early as 1898.
Thanks!
Charlevoix GC is a 9 hole muni split by 31(the main road heading from Petoskey to Charlevoix). I played it a bunch of times as a kid but none since. I remember it being extremely flat and unremarkable. Maybe I'll play a quick nine there this summer and report back. It will be easier on the wallet than 9 at Belvedere.
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Across the road, the second 9 begins with a straightforward 527 yard par 5. There's a little more movement to the land than it appears from the pics.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010143.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010144.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010145.jpg)
Hole 11 is a 390 yard par 4 that goes back towards the road & clubhouse. From the right side of the fairway the green is partially hidden.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010146.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010147.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010148.jpg)
A very good bunkerless green complex. Shown also from 12 tee.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010149.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010151.jpg)
The 12th hole is 422 yds with a bit of a crowned fairway.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010150.jpg)
Back downhill for the approach.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010152.jpg)
From behind the 12th green.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010153.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010154.jpg)
The 13th is 389 yards back uphill. The tees weren't under the tree quite the way this photo makes it appear.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010155.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010156.jpg)
The 14th is 175 yards. If I remember correctly, this green was pretty uninteresting, leaving us to speculate that it might not be original.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010157.jpg)
Will finish up later today.
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Is it just me or does the place look like it has a little bit of Meadow Club and Crystal Downs in it?
The bunkering would be the biggest difference, but the lay of the land, how the holes seem to sit on the gently rolling landscape is what seems similar.
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I absolutely love Belvedere, especially their greens and use of the land. If one has a copy of George Thomas' 'Golf Arhitectrue in America,' there are Watson hole drawings of the 11th (page 93), 16th (page 113) where you can see the bunkers Mr. Linvingston says are missing, and the 1st hole (page 166).
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The original bunkering at Belvedere was supposed to have been done by Billy Bell. Was he involved at Olympic?
Ralph,
Thanks for sharing the aerial. It would be great to see #8 go back to what was there in the past. It also looks like #9 was a bit more interesting with the old bunkering scheme. I can't really tell on #16 how the greenside bunkering affected play. It looks to be down below the slope to the right of the green. It looks like a few of the holes on the course could be improved with a return of the old bunkering scheme.
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The original bunkering at Belvedere was supposed to have been done by Billy Bell. Was he involved at Olympic?
Ralph,
Thanks for sharing the aerial. It would be great to see #8 go back to what was there in the past. It also looks like #9 was a bit more interesting with the old bunkering scheme. I can't really tell on #16 how the greenside bunkering affected play. It looks to be down below the slope to the right of the green. It looks like a few of the holes on the course could be improved with a return of the old bunkering scheme.
Actually you can see a couple of the dips that were the old bunkers in that photo. I just wish the photo better showed how steep that slope is. It would also be nice to have a shot that shows the convolutions on and around that green.
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The 15th is a short par 5, only 465 yards, that doglegs sharply right. The outside of the dogleg is protected by a small lake on the left, while the inside is guarded by a large bunker. It's a little over 200 yds to carry the bunker but you run the risk of going through the fairway if you hit driver. A well positioned tee shot allows even a short hitter like me to go at the green which drops off from the fairway. Sorry I didn't take more pictures of this. I'm sure my description isn't very clear.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010158.jpg)
The green from a perfect spot in the upper fairway.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010159.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010160.jpg)
The 16th is a 340 yard par 4 that goes back uphill a bit. The green is built into the hillside beautifully. A basic hole made great by the bunkerless green.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010162.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010163.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010164.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010165.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010166.jpg)
The 17th is a 179 yard par 3 uphill. Sorry I didn't have any photos of the green. Maybe Tim Bert can rescue me...
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010167.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010168.jpg)
The 18th runs back alongside the road. It's a tough finishing hole, 430 yards. Plenty of room and one more outstanding green awaits. A tree somewhat complicates the approach.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010169.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010170.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010171.jpg)
The 18th green from behind.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/belvedere/P1010172.jpg)
Should you visit Belvedere? Hell yes. It's about 50 miles from Traverse City and I think warrants play every bit as much as High Pointe. I enjoyed it more, maybe just because it feels like a trip back in time. According to the website, the course was built with 150 men and 5 teams of horses. It fits the ground very well. There are a few nondescript holes out there, but the greens alone are worth the trip. $79 fee in season is well worth it.
If you make the trip, be sure to stop in Eastport on the way and marvel at the the combination gas station, IGA grocery, True Value hardware & paint, and wine shop. Everything you need in one really eclectic retail location. :D
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John,
Thanks for taking the time to add the photos. An interesting thread.
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Ed,
The fun part about posting the pics is it provides a chance to relive the experience. Some really memorable holes there, at least for me.
Jack,
Maybe next time!
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Having now read Tom Doak's brief comments on Bruce Hepner's work there, I can sort of vouch for what Tom may have been too modest to say about a real renaissance for Belvedere. These recent pictures have me tremendously excited about going back to Belvedere this summer. The pictures indicate to me, as Tom suggests, that the charming but crusty old Belvedere from Michigan Am days is now a much more sleek, beautifully restored classic.
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I should also mention that there are many, many good photos of Belvedere on Frank Pont's site.
http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/Web%20Galleries/USA/Michigan/Belvedere/index.html
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3 JACK? :D
Come on! With my skill with the flatstick from off the green....tap in birdie.
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I only have one picture of the 17th green.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b189/timgolfpics/Belvedere/IMG_1672.jpg)
John wouldn't have to ask for a rescue package if I wasn't so amazingly lazy about labeling my pictures and sending them following this trip. We're going on 4 months now.
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John wouldn't have to ask for a rescue package if I wasn't so amazingly lazy about labeling my pictures and sending them following this trip. We're going on 4 months now.
Yeah, but how many pictures did you take that week? I had never labeled mine from Belvedere and kind of figured it out as I posted. But I wasn't industrious enough to go ahead and label the ones on my hard drive at the same time.
Thanks for posting this one.
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Thanks for the pics John and Tim.
With the exclusion of holes 2, 3, & 5, Belvedere has a great set of holes, full of intrigue, charm and strategy.
With some restoration/renovation work and a little bit of tree removal, I think Belvedere could be REALLY good...
- George
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The original bunkering at Belvedere was supposed to have been done by Billy Bell. Was he involved at Olympic?
Ralph,
I wasn't aware of Bell's involvement at Belvedere, but after seeing your aerial I'm not surprised.
Do you know much about the history of Charlevoix GC, where Watson also is credited, although my understanding is that golf was played there as early as 1898.
Thanks!
Charlevoix GC is a 9 hole muni split by 31(the main road heading from Petoskey to Charlevoix). I played it a bunch of times as a kid but none since. I remember it being extremely flat and unremarkable. Maybe I'll play a quick nine there this summer and report back. It will be easier on the wallet than 9 at Belvedere.
Mike. Turns out that Charlevoix GC used to be the Chicago Club. The Chicago Club as a neighborhood club/association still exists, it sits opposite round lake to the Belvedere Club (the club that owns Belvedere Golf Club). The neighborhood is directly south of the golf course between the course (as it stands today) and Lake Charlevoix. The Chicago Club was, at the time Belvedere was created in 1925, 18 holes and Willie Watson was the head pro and also the architect. Apparently, in addition to being the head pro of the Chicago Club, he was a part-time architect doing Olympic, Harding, and Interlachen in Minneapolis (which was subsequently completely re-done by Donald Ross).
Thats what I found out today. Belvedere has a couple old books in their pro-shop that are "memoirs" written members. They are 99% about the Belvedere Club but do have some info in there about the Golf Club. I spoke with the recently retired head pro today and he mentioned that he and the current head pro have considered writing a history of the Golf Club. I encouraged such a venture, obviously.
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(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/841/ghz1.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/842/k8p81.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/845/48t6k.jpg)
5 Weeks away!!! :P
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When will you be there? I'm going to try to play there sometime between July 10 and 13.
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Sorry, the week before.
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When will you be there? I'm going to try to play there sometime between July 10 and 13.
Great time to be away from Austin! ;D
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When will you be there? I'm going to try to play there sometime between July 10 and 13.
Great time to be away from Austin! ;D
We recommend being out of TX july through august!
.. and catching JC Jones singing / crooning (?) with country music bits along the 40th parallel..
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When will you be there? I'm going to try to play there sometime between July 10 and 13.
Great time to be away from Austin! ;D
Si senor. My wife's family is in Michigan and we need to take the new baby on the obligatory family tour. Trying to build up some goodwill so that I can play golf for a few days in the Traverse area. I'm a fantastic guy, so it shouldn't be too hard. We will be staying in Charlevoix, really looking forward to trying Belvedere.
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I'll be up in Charlevoix in the middle of July (13th-18th). Definitely planning on playing Belvedere again. Loved it the first time I played it two years ago, and really wanted to play it last year, but didn't. Won't be making that mistake again this year.
BCowan, I didn't know you were going up there. Hope you enjoy it.
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I'm planning on taking a trip to Northern Michigan just after Independence Day weekend (July 5th to 9th) - I'll definitely look into Belvedere...
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A couple (processed) pics.
Practice bunker overlooking the 5th, practice green, clubhouse
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5506/9387886280_a1d0e899ee_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/fiznwh)
First hole tee shot.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3788/14288447791_0469beddcf_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nLC2J8)
Charlevoix GC first fairway
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5036/14311967463_e9bf2c7ea4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nNGziH)
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Is anybody NOT going to be in the area playing Belvedere in July?
Guys, I am staying in Charlevoix with a whole truckload of my wife's family from the 10th through the 13th. Let me know if you'll be around and maybe we could try to meet up, either on or off the golf course.
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Hopefully by then the course will be up to snuff. Apparently they had a very rough winter...
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Let's hope as they are hosting the Michigan Am on June 16th!
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I played Belevedere a few years back with JC and I thought it was a very solid golf course. You definitely cannot go wrong playing a round here. Northern Michigan golf in the summer almost can't be beat.
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af43/nashcarr/DSCF2157_zpsb6e7df7e.jpg) (http://s992.photobucket.com/user/nashcarr/media/DSCF2157_zpsb6e7df7e.jpg.html)
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af43/nashcarr/DSCF2142_zps5d0308ec.jpg) (http://s992.photobucket.com/user/nashcarr/media/DSCF2142_zps5d0308ec.jpg.html)
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8) Heck, if flat Charlevoix GC is included... how about something hilly on the north side of Lake Charlevoix, just west of Hemmingway's old haunts?
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/TXSeve/DSC00151.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/TXSeve/media/DSC00151.jpg.html)
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So we had a bunch of guys (including me) playing Belvedere lately, but no updates to this thread?
I really enjoyed the course. I haven't played much in the area so comparisons are difficult, but it was a fun course with a great atmosphere.
The course started slow, I liked #1 but #2 through #5 were too flat and not overly interesting. Starting at #6 things picked up, with an uphill approach to a contoured green. #7 through #9 are solid holes as well.
On the back nine, the 11th hole had a nice sloping fairway and green. #13 sits very nicely into the land. #10, and #14 were not too memorable. #12 was OK, I was way left on my tee shot; the approach is probably pretty interesting but I was punching out from the wrong side of the trees down the left. But the finish of the course was very solid. #15 is a unique hole, there seemed to be many ways to play it. I loved the 16th hole, what a devilish green in the side of the hill. I also liked the 17th hole, a great bunkerless par-3 with the hill waiting to repel an ball that goes left (though the green was not as interesting as I'd like). And #18 was a good solid hole with possibly the most interesting green on the course.
I was fortunate enough to be staying in Charlevoix and having Belvedere only a couple of miles away makes it an easy choice to play. If you've come to get your fix at Kingsley I'm not sure I would detour an hour to play Belvedere, but I hope to be staying in Charlevoix again in the future and if so I will definitely try to return.
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I would play Belvedere without hesitation. Fun, interesting and a true classic!
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I played Belvedere and Forest Dunes in early July but have no pics to add. Belvedere greens were firm and fast in very rainy conditions. The area left of 17 green has been shaved and makes for a terrifying long iron approach. I will take pics in Aug or Sept. What a fun golf course. 16-18 is a brillant stretch. Belvedere is simple, understated and elegant.
I was pleasantly suprised by Belvedere and a tad underwhelmed by FD.
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Glad you liked Belvedere Ryan. "Understated" and "elegant" are perfect descriptions.
I played 27 there last Wednesday. Beautiful day. Played the back 9 twice. I played the short, men's tees and still had a great time and fun, challenging test.
The fairways were a bit soft in spots from the rain the day before, but the greens and surrounds were in terrific shape. Rough was quite thick while not being long (you could spot your ball fairly easily), and I noticed that they were mowing it that day, although it seemed to be only one pass right next to the fairway.
15 is probably my least favorite hole, but only because I feel like it should be a fairly easy hole, and I can't figure out how to play it without losing strokes.
16 is probably my favorite hole, but it roughed me up this year. Can't wait to go back.
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I played Belvedere and Forest Dunes in early July but have no pics to add. Belvedere greens were firm and fast in very rainy conditions. The area left of 17 green has been shaved and makes for a terrifying long iron approach. I will take pics in Aug or Sept. What a fun golf course. 16-18 is a brillant stretch. Belvedere is simple, understated and elegant.
I was pleasantly suprised by Belvedere and a tad underwhelmed by FD.
I thought that 16-18 were the highlight of the course. It makes me wonder if I'll remember Belvedere too fondly because the finish was very strong, so the course ended on a real high note, but there were some rather indifferent holes earlier in the round. I'll have to go back and play it again when I'm (hopefully) vacationing in Northern Michigan again in subsequent years.
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The 16th green - my favorite:
(http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/mehendren/Belvedere%20Golf%20Club/100_1102.jpg)
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Mr. Bogey that was definitely my favorite green site on the course. If the course gets firm, it is not at all hard to imagine a player chipping back and forth across that green a couple of times.