Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: John Foley on November 07, 2008, 01:24:27 PM

Title: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: John Foley on November 07, 2008, 01:24:27 PM
Finally had the chance to get out and play Monroe this week and what a treat.

The greens are phenomenal and far and away make the course. The small 9th , the trough through the 18th and wonderfull moving 5th we're some of the best.

The routing is great (I love the feeling of playing the course and having no idea where you are in relation to the clubhouse) and as a test it's challenging, but not overbearing.
The recent work by Gil is complete. The bunkers are in great shape. Many tree's have been cleared (they could use to loose a few more thought) and from what I had seen in the past it has opened up the course tremendously.

Here is the only pic I took of the course, 17th green from the fw.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cbmacfan/IMG_3532.jpg)

A pic of Ross's original routing plan

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cbmacfan/IMG_3536.jpg)

A pic of Gill Hanse's plan

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cbmacfan/IMG_3537.jpg)

a few BTW's

Monroe used to be one of Ran's Next 50, but it's no longer listed there.

Did Golf's Most Beloved visit and not post his thoughts yet??

Has there been a more glorious week for late fall golf in the Northeast / Ohio Valley as this past week? Not cloud all week and temps approaching 70. Unreal.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Scott_Burroughs on November 07, 2008, 02:15:02 PM
Here's another shot of #17:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/foodstat/Monroe/m012.jpg)
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Dan Herrmann on November 07, 2008, 06:26:10 PM
John - how'd you like 18 green with its diagonal swale?  A most excellent green!

Monroe is also an incredible walk.  Laura and I played last year in just over 3 hours walking. 
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: mark chalfant on November 07, 2008, 06:53:09 PM
John  and Dan I totally agree !     

One charming hole after another  on ideal rolling terrain. Moreover it has no 'tunnel drawback"  that slightly  dilutes Plainfields back nine.  Monroe =  8 on the doak scale
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Scott Witter on November 07, 2008, 07:04:32 PM
Monroe has always been my favorite Ross course in the Rochester area, a market that has 5 Ross courses (6) if you count both the east and west courses at Oak Hill.  A good friend and contractor Jack Faery and his crew did the restoration and renovation work there for Gil Hanse.  The course was solid before the new work was done, it is now very strong and a real treat to play and see :D
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Mike_Cirba on November 07, 2008, 07:28:18 PM
How good is #13 as a par three!?!   :o
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Greg Holland on November 07, 2008, 08:45:07 PM
What is the 18 green like -- on both plans there are 2 lines running across the green.  Is it a biarittz type green?

On my home course, we have a drawing for a  par 3 by Ross with a swale/depression, but running on a bit of a diagonal instead of perpendicular to the tee shot.  That is not how the hole plays today, but he designed it that way. 
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Mike_Cirba on November 07, 2008, 08:48:05 PM
What is the 18 green like -- on both plans there are 2 lines running across the green.  Is it a biarittz type green?

On my home course, we have a drawing for a  par 3 by Ross with a swale/depression, but running on a bit of a diagonal instead of perpendicular to the tee shot.  That is not how the hole plays today, but he designed it that way. 

Greg,

That's quite a good description.    There is a pronounced hollow running through the green, set at a diagonal.   

You can imagine the variety of shot options one might encounter depending on hole location.   

Monroe is tremendous fun from start to finish.   The comments are spot on and I find it to be one of my very favorite Donald Ross courses, similar to Plainfield in some respects, yet with its own panache and character.

The first three holes are very good, but numbers 4 and 5 are both incredibly creative uses of natural landforms and then it just hums along wonderfully from there.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Mike_Cirba on November 07, 2008, 08:53:18 PM
One other thing I might point out...

The glacial land of upstate NY is wonderful for golf.   I have been fortunate to have spent a bit of time in the area over the past several years, and when folks talk of drumlins and eskers and all those geological terms, I used to glaze over.

However, what those terms mean to the golf layman is wonderful "micro-contours" within broad "macro-contours".

The land heaves and twists, but following broader swaths of slopes, but filled with bowls and pimply rises, and the variety is absolutely infinite in complexity and unique presentation and off-balance playability.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Greg Holland on November 07, 2008, 08:58:36 PM
Thanks Mike.  Sounds fun.  How deep is the depression, on our drawings the depression was only 1 foot deep, but it went all the way across the green on an uphill 200+ par 3 (with the green sloping back to front significantly due to the uphill contour).  It is a good hole now, but I think it would be even more fun if we put that swale back in the green.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Mike_Cirba on November 07, 2008, 09:01:01 PM
Greg,

It's not deep.   If I were to guess I'd say something in the range of 18-24 inches but it comes at such a oblique angle that you have to consider it on virtually any and every shot from the approach until the ball is in the hole.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: JNC Lyon on November 10, 2008, 10:09:48 AM
Monroe is a fantastic golf course.  It is my second favorite course in the Rochester area behind the West Course at Oak Hill.  It is laid out over ideal terrain and soil.  This means the golfer faces a course that is firm and fast and filled with uneven lies.  The course has improved dramatically over the past year under the supervision of Gil Hanse.  The new bunker scheme on 1 has moved the hole from a terrible, misfit starting hole to a very solid, strategy opener.  4-9 are all unique and tremendous in their own way.  15-18 is a great finishing stretch.  The greens at 17 and 18 are two of the most unique and fun complexes I have seen anywhere.  My qualms with the course are as follows:

The par fives, except for the classic 9th, are very weak.  3, 12, and 14 are all quite short, but they also lack any real defense.  12 is a terrible golf hole.  The non-Ross green is long and right of the original greensite.  The new hole is very awkward, using trees as a primary defense on the second shot.  The green itself is an ugly monstrosity that has no place on a classic links.  3 and 14 are fine holes, but they have no strategic options other than to blast two shots straight at the green.  Both seem to be filler holes: 3 is followed by the fantastic 4th (the best hole on the course IMO), and 14 is sandwiched in between a beautiful sidehill par three and a dramatic mid-length par four.

The first three holes on each nine are substantially weaker than the rest of the course.  1 is a good hole tee to green but still has an non-Ross greensite.  2 has a great tilted green but has no real strategic merit.  3 has another solid green but nothing much else.  10 is ridiculously wide off the tee, and the modified cape approach doesn't make up for this freeway width.  11 is a strange hole, with trees providing the real challenge off the tee.  The green is interesting but it is also not an original Ross. 12 is horrid.

As mediocre as the bad holes are, the good holes are Ross at his best, routed over some dramatic landforms.  This creates exciting blind shots and wild greens.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: archie_struthers on November 10, 2008, 05:04:48 PM
 ;) ;) ;)

One of our poster here ...one  P gert.....probably knows more about Monroe than anyone !

feel free to channel him for more!

sorry P  ....but if the shoe fits !
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Ed Oden on September 26, 2009, 08:23:58 PM
I played Monroe last weekend and agree with those who think it is a gem.  Not only is it a first rate design, but the maintenance meld is absolutely perfect.  Monroe's firm/fast conditions are reminiscent of Huntingdon Valley's, perhaps even a smidge better since, amazingly, the course seems to be blessed with a sandy soil base.

I thought about posting photos but, sadly, this site's current configuration is just not conducive to quality picture viewing.  So instead, I decided to add to this thread with a link to a slideshow of the course...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eko_gfl/sets/72157622455301816/show/

...or if you want to know what you are looking at, click here for a set of individual photos...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eko_gfl/sets/72157622455301816/

On the second link, click on a thumbnail to pull up a picture and then click on "All Sizes" above the photo to see it in large format.

Ed
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Matt_Ward on September 26, 2009, 09:29:01 PM
The info that's been posted sums up quite nicely what's there -- people who get the opportunity to play it should do so and I concur with what JNC has stated on the best / worst holes at the course.

I can remember years back when I was in the Rochester area and I knew so little about the place -- a good friend suggested the course to me and I was quite pleased with the time spent there.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Dan Herrmann on September 27, 2009, 03:43:43 PM
The golf season is short in Rochester, but if you have the funds to be a member at a private club, you'll find it hard to beat.  Monroe, Oak Hill, Country Club of Rochester, and Irondiquoit (sic) are all Ross gems located within a few miles of each other.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Ed Oden on September 27, 2009, 10:11:46 PM
While I'll let the photo links I posted earlier stand, I will post a few pictures of the 13th hole since it is one of the best par 3s I've played in awhile.  192 yards from the back tees, it plays slightly uphill to a green as firm as good handshake... 

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3434/3954662472_7be2e925f8_b.jpg)

A closer view...

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2550/3954661438_aa59d5e030_b.jpg)

But what I really loved about this hole is the green.  From the tee it looks like a fairly standard back to front tilt.  Yet you can see from this picture that there is actually a ridge about 2/3 of the way into the green beyond which the slope is away toward the back...

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3449/3954660738_7043cf91b0_b.jpg)

All in all, a terrific hole which could be special with some tree removal beyond to expose the skyline green.

Ed
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: JNC Lyon on September 28, 2009, 01:02:36 AM
Ed Oden,

Great pictures of the 13th Hole at Monroe.  I, however, have a different take on this hole.  I've played the course 5 or 6 times.  Each time, I try to convince myself that 13 is a great par three.  It is long; it has a well-placed greensite; it is testing; and it is tough hole in between two scoring holes at 12 and 14.  Yet whenever I play number 13, it is never a fun hole.  The green is rock hard and slopes away at the back of the green.  Anything that lands on the right side of the green will roll to the back edge or over into a terrible lie in the poorly-cut long fringe.  Any ball that lands on the front-right portion of the green will roll off the left side of the green into a terrible lie in the poorly-cut long fringe. Any ball that lands short left of the green will roll 50 yards back down the fairway.  The tee shots that will hold the green are:

a) a low bullet that lands just short at the dead center of the green.
b) a bouncing iron shot that lands in a spot the size of a bath towel just of the short right bunkers.
c) a well-struck iron shot that lands in the middle of the left side of the green.
d) a 7-iron hit by a freak college player at the Monroe Invitational.

There is not enough margin for error on what amounts to a mid-iron par three for most players.  There is no place to miss around the green that leaves a reasonable chance at an up-and down.  I think the hole would be better if:

a) The green was larger and not so severe in firmness and front-to-back cant.
b) The right greenside bunker was removed.  In my mind, the green would set up perfectly for a running draw that landed short right of the green.  Unfortunately, this area is so small that it is hardly a viable option.  If Robert Trent Jones built that right greenside bunker in the 1960s, people would (rightfully) scream that Jones hated the ground game and was designing a one-dimensional hole.  If the right greenside bunker were gone and the Redan-style options were opened up, I  would then be okay with the current state of the green.  The Redan option would be an alternative to bombing away at the green with a 4-iron and hoping to find a soft spot.

Overall, I think the current hole is set beautifully into its surroundings.  Ross, always the master router, did a great job of hoping from hill to ridge on this hole.  The green and its surrounds are simply too severe for a hole of its length. The 13th is the weakest of the par threes at Monroe.  I find the great short 8th and the brilliant, long uphill 6th to be far superior.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: JNC Lyon on September 29, 2009, 12:13:47 AM
Dan Herrmann,

Don't forget Brook Lea in that list of Ross gems in Rochester.  I would put it at a notch above Irondequoit.  It possesses a good set of par threes and some very interesting par fours as well.  Great greens include: 1, 2, 3, 8, 9, 11, 13, 16, 17, 18.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Keith OHalloran on June 02, 2012, 06:51:29 PM
Played Monroe for the first time today. JNC is right on with most of his thoughts. The course s really fantastic, with some spectacular greens. If he follow through on all the tree work that Hanse recommends, the course can get even better.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Ronald Montesano on June 02, 2012, 07:56:11 PM
1. Is the green harder/firmer than other greens on the course?

2. If yes, then why?
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Dan Byrnes on June 02, 2012, 08:11:19 PM
I always for get about Monroe when it Rochester.  The place certainly has more than its share of solid golf courses.  I have an invite I need to fulfill at CCR should make it a couple day trip and play some of the others.

Dan
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: JNC Lyon on June 02, 2012, 11:52:05 PM
1. Is the green harder/firmer than other greens on the course?

2. If yes, then why?

Ron,

It's not necessarily firmer.  The issue on 13 is that the green is fairly small, and the back half runs away from the player.  Often, 1 of 2 things will happen.  Either the golfer hits a solid iron shot into the middle of the green that rolls over the back into a bird's nest lie OR the shot hits just short of the green, resulting in a either another bird's nest lie or a 30-yard touch shot from short left.  Think 3 at Oak Hill East, but with front-to-back slope on the back portion.  It is a very cool hole, and it is well-routed.  It just can be too extreme, and it's probably my least favorite of the par threes (not too much of an insult, I might note, because 6,8, and 16 are all superb).

I have to get out to Monroe again soon--maybe one of our Golfweek rater friends can arrange a trip  ;)

Dan,

Let me know if you're around.  We'll get drinks at the very least, and at most we'll get a few of the other GCA characters from the area to join for a game.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Dan Herrmann on June 03, 2012, 07:55:37 AM
John - will do.

What's sad about Monroe is the lack of respect it gets in Rochester.  My non-golfing sister-in-law knew all about Oak Hill, CCR, etc, but kind of was surprised when I told her how amazing Monroe was to play.

She had been to their clubhouse for some events, but said she never heard any of her friends talking about Monroe's golf course.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Keith OHalloran on June 03, 2012, 12:37:59 PM
JNC,
You have played the course more than I have, but I am not sure I agree with your opinion of 13. We agree that it is a great looking hole, and sits well on the property. What I am not sure about is whether or not it is too exacting. I played the blue tees, and had 162. To be fair, my ball landed on the front, and rolled down the hill, but the green did not seem unfair for that length shot. The 11th at Shinnecock in widely praised, and it asks for a very exacting shot from 160. I am not sure that it an unfair test.
Then gain, I could be biased, I loved the hole, and thought almost every green complex was superb.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Dan Herrmann on August 15, 2014, 09:26:54 PM
Do yourself a big favor and DVR the LPGA Championship.  Monroe is a tremendously underrated (or unnoticed) Ross gem - now with Hanse tweaks.

I love this course, and hope you enjoy what you see this weekend.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Philip Caccamise on August 15, 2014, 11:54:21 PM
John - will do.

What's sad about Monroe is the lack of respect it gets in Rochester.  My non-golfing sister-in-law knew all about Oak Hill, CCR, etc, but kind of was surprised when I told her how amazing Monroe was to play.

She had been to their clubhouse for some events, but said she never heard any of her friends talking about Monroe's golf course.

In my opinion, that's because prior to the Hanse renovation it was languishing as a "social" club for the old and rich Pittsford-Penfield-Fairport set rather than a golfer's club. It has always been regarded as prestigious in terms of social circles but the (GREAT) golf course was taking a back seat. I haven't been back since the renovation- watching the LPGA coverage today it looks amazing. The 14th was the first birdie I ever made in competition as an 11 year old in a junior tournament, and the first eagle in competition too in a high school event. So I like that hole  :)

I am truly saddened by the LPGA leaving Rochester, the passion for women's golf there far surpasses anywhere I've ever been. Locust Hill had definitely worn out its welcome but a rotation of courses would be fantastic.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Ed Homsey on August 16, 2014, 01:01:26 PM
Spent 7 hours out on Monroe's golf course during an LPGA practice round, this week.  Mainly just looking at the course.  Had played it several years ago, in a cart, and even with my good memory of golf courses, I could not retrace my steps there.  But, I was anxious to get back out there and see it, especially after Gil Hanse had done his work there.  Following the practice round, I spent another full day watching the second round of the LPGA Championship.  I agree with those who say that Monroe's course has been underappreciated in the Rochester area.  In my ranking of courses in our area, I had Monroe 4th or 5th, behind Oak Hill's two courses and CCR.  I was blown away by the course.  The wonderful terrain, the siting of greens, the distinctive character of each hole.  I think it is the equal of Oak Hill's West course, which I've long considered the best golf course in the Rochester area.  I appreciate learning about those greens that are not original Ross greens.  Was not aware of that till reading this thread.  However, I'm puzzled by the descriptions of #13.  I watched several groups go through there yesterday and recognized, of course, that it was proving to be a tough challenge.  For a time, I stood at the back of the green to watch players hitting shots out of the back greenside bunker, including Suzann Pettersen and Stacy Lewis.  From my perspective, they were hitting onto a section of the green that was sloping away from them, and given the back left pin position, there was no way they could stop the ball within 10-12 feet past the pin. 
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Rob Marshall on August 16, 2014, 04:45:37 PM
John - will do.

What's sad about Monroe is the lack of respect it gets in Rochester.  My non-golfing sister-in-law knew all about Oak Hill, CCR, etc, but kind of was surprised when I told her how amazing Monroe was to play.

She had been to their clubhouse for some events, but said she never heard any of her friends talking about Monroe's golf course.

In my opinion, that's because prior to the Hanse renovation it was languishing as a "social" club for the old and rich Pittsford-Penfield-Fairport set rather than a golfer's club. It has always been regarded as prestigious in terms of social circles but the (GREAT) golf course was taking a back seat. I haven't been back since the renovation- watching the LPGA coverage today it looks amazing. The 14th was the first birdie I ever made in competition as an 11 year old in a junior tournament, and the first eagle in competition too in a high school event. So I like that hole  :)

I am truly saddened by the LPGA leaving Rochester, the passion for women's golf there far surpasses anywhere I've ever been. Locust Hill had definitely worn out its welcome but a rotation of courses would be fantastic.

For a club that is not a golfers club they have a heck of a lot of really great golfers come out of there.

The course is fairly straight forward off the tee. It's a second shot course. Hit your approach shots above the pin and you are in for a long day. It's the 4th best course in Rochester. Oak Hill east, CCR, OH West, and then Monroe. It's always in great shape. Probably the best area around the 18th green to have drink after a round and watch groups come in.

Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Ed Homsey on August 16, 2014, 08:28:17 PM
I'm willing very to debate that Monroe Golf Club's course is superior to the Country Club of Riochester's, and I'm very much aware of its reputation in the Rochester area.  However, in my opinion, the changes made at CCR by RTJones seriously disrupted the natural low of the course.  The course is no longer the gem that it was before they decided to alter the course in order to build a practice range.  I find it hard to respect Oak Hill East because of the number of face-lifts it has had by the Fazio group; each of which have been solely aimed toward attracting major championships.  It reminds me of Joan Rivers, whom I loved at one time.  Oak Hill West is a different story, and very worthy of the "best course in Rochester" designation.  I would not argue that, though I would stand by Monroe.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: John Foley on August 16, 2014, 08:45:18 PM
Ed,

I'm in big agreement w/ Monroe vs CCR. I struggle with CCR's place as I don't think there are any truly great holes out there. 17 & 18 are strong but are they great?
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Philip Caccamise on August 16, 2014, 08:53:28 PM
John - will do.

What's sad about Monroe is the lack of respect it gets in Rochester.  My non-golfing sister-in-law knew all about Oak Hill, CCR, etc, but kind of was surprised when I told her how amazing Monroe was to play.

She had been to their clubhouse for some events, but said she never heard any of her friends talking about Monroe's golf course.

In my opinion, that's because prior to the Hanse renovation it was languishing as a "social" club for the old and rich Pittsford-Penfield-Fairport set rather than a golfer's club. It has always been regarded as prestigious in terms of social circles but the (GREAT) golf course was taking a back seat. I haven't been back since the renovation- watching the LPGA coverage today it looks amazing. The 14th was the first birdie I ever made in competition as an 11 year old in a junior tournament, and the first eagle in competition too in a high school event. So I like that hole  :)

I am truly saddened by the LPGA leaving Rochester, the passion for women's golf there far surpasses anywhere I've ever been. Locust Hill had definitely worn out its welcome but a rotation of courses would be fantastic.

For a club that is not a golfers club they have a heck of a lot of really great golfers come out of there.

The course is fairly straight forward off the tee. It's a second shot course. Hit your approach shots above the pin and you are in for a long day. It's the 4th best course in Rochester. Oak Hill east, CCR, OH West, and then Monroe. It's always in great shape. Probably the best area around the 18th green to have drink after a round and watch groups come in.



Agreed on both points. Including recently, a USGA Mid-Am runner up to Nathan Smith. But, like CCR, the focus always seemed to me to be the social aspect rather than a hardcore golf club. Maybe I'm being to dismissive based on my own experiences there.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Rob Marshall on August 16, 2014, 09:52:18 PM
Ed,

I'm in big agreement w/ Monroe vs CCR. I struggle with CCR's place as I don't think there are any truly great holes out there. 17 & 18 are strong but are they great?

17 and 18 are IMO two of the weakest holes on the course. The new 18th green doesn't fit with the rest of the greens complexes on the course. I can't speak to the changes they made to build the range. Way before my time. Early 60's I think. The only bad hole on the course is 6, which is one of the "new" holes. They have made some changes to make the landing area friendlier. The par 3's are fantastic. The 7th is one of the best par 3's I've ever played. Also one of the "new" holes.  Monroe is a great golf course but not better than CCR.

If you want to play a great 9 in Rochester play the back nine at Irondequit CC.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Frank_M on August 16, 2014, 11:10:44 PM
Chalk me up as another fan of Monroe.

Was out there last year and loved the place. Same trip played Oak Hill (East & West) and Irondequoit, and though I thought all were great with significant differences between them, Monroe is the one I'd want to play day after day....that includes CCR.

Irondequoit was the sleeper of the bunch...took me by surprise and a great one at that.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: PGertner on August 17, 2014, 06:30:55 PM
Monroe vs CCR? To me, it is no contest, Monroe in a landslide. CCR doesn't have the topography, routing, natural beauty or green sites.
Still way to many trees however and a membership that doesn't get it….

Patrick Gertner
East Greenwich, RI 
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Dan Herrmann on August 17, 2014, 06:39:22 PM
Patrick - which membership doesn't get it?  CCR or Monroe?
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: PGertner on August 17, 2014, 06:43:15 PM
I was referring to Monroe's membership which I know well, unfortunately….
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Ed Homsey on August 17, 2014, 08:25:24 PM
Reminds me of a conversation I had with one of the founders of the Ross Society in the mid-'90s.  He referred to Monroe as one of the great Ross courses in Rochester, with the disclaimer that "the members aren't aware of what they have".  While exploring the Monroe clubhouse, this week, I was struck by the absence of reference to Donald Ross.  In one display case, a map of the original Ross course.  Elsewhere in the clubhouse, there were some beautiful, non-golf related paintings.  Amazed that they don't have something--like a Ross Room, or Grill, that celebrates their distinguished history.  I'm hoping that I missed something.

Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Ed Homsey on August 17, 2014, 08:38:31 PM
Does anyone out there have information about the changes that Cornish and/or Silva brought to Monroe golf club?
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: PGertner on August 17, 2014, 09:02:28 PM
Cornish changed the 1st green in the early 1960's. Those green surrounds were altered by Gil Hanse in the 2007 or 2008.

Brian Silva built the current 11th green (mid 90's) the third 11th green they have had. Original was a punchbowl. Silva also added the left bunker on 15 fairway, that was probably changed again by Hanse. Silva re-contoured fairways in 1988.

The 12th green was rebuilt in house, mid 1980's, using vague plans from an architect that was never officially hired to do the work.

All other restorations were done by Gil. All other greens sites and surfaces are original. Trees still need to come down, especially spruces. Membership resists.

Patrick Gertner
East Greenwich, RI
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Rob Marshall on August 17, 2014, 09:26:12 PM
Cornish changed the 1st green in the early 1960's. Those green surrounds were altered by Gil Hanse in the 2007 or 2008.

Brian Silva built the current 11th green (mid 90's) the third 11th green they have had. Original was a punchbowl. Silva also added the left bunker on 15 fairway, that was probably changed again by Hanse. Silva re-contoured fairways in 1988.

The 12th green was rebuilt in house, mid 1980's, using vague plans from an architect that was never officially hired to do the work.

All other restorations were done by Gil. All other greens sites and surfaces are original. Trees still need to come down, especially spruces. Membership resists.

Patrick Gertner
East Greenwich, RI

Patrick, not sure when you were in Rochester if you ever played or visited Penfield CC. We could remove 500++pine trees that are snuffing out some beautiful Oaks. Our greenskeeper Don Bloom would love us to give him the funds to take them all out. I've probably played Monroe 30 times and I've never noticed an over abundance of spruces in the playing areas anyway. The fairways are wide enough that I never really thought the trees were a problem.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Ed Homsey on August 18, 2014, 11:39:32 AM
In general, there is an openness to Monroe.  I did not feel suffocated by the trees, and though I do not like to see spruce or pine trees on a course, I would hate to see them get rid of that cluster of pines back of the 15th.  It was a joy walking by those trees in the morning with the strong fragrance of pine wafting through the air.  They don't come into play, unless you badly hozel one off the 16th, so my vote would be for them to stay.  On the other hand, there are a lot of trees on that property.

Thanks, Patrick, for the rundown on course changes made by Cornish and Silva. 
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: PGertner on August 18, 2014, 05:55:52 PM
Rob,

I am very familiar with PCC....my dad was a member way back in 1968 and remember the "Tees for Trees" program that provided funding for thousands of trees at PCC. I have communicated with Don and know he has been addressing the issues....three cheers!!

In my opinion, it isn't playing avenues that trees are affecting....it is turf quality and the blocking of wonderful views from areas of both courses. From PCC's 5th tee, I'd love to be able to see the 3rd and 4th holes, maybe the 8th green....7 and 6. Last time I was there, (with Bino) that wasn't possible. From the 10th tee...it would also be cool to see all of 10 and 11....and who knows what else with aggressive thinning!

I have been at Potowomut GC in RI for 10 seasons, and this past winter we removed our 2500th tree during my tenure. Members love it, turf is much better and we enjoy many views and vistas that no one ever knew were there!!

You and most welcome Mr. Homsey....I have been gone for a while but a part of me will always remain at MGC!!

Patrick Gertner
Potowomut Golf Club
East Greenwich, RI 
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Rob Marshall on August 18, 2014, 09:58:16 PM
Pat,
Don has done a great job since he began at PCC. The TONS of sand he has put into our greens has really paid off. I played OH East twice this year and I thought our greens were quicker and much smoother. He just got done over seeing the installation of our new sprinkler system.

Don has removed many of the trees from behind the 5th green and it looks great. Not quite as much as you would like but still a great improvement.  He also has removed  a bunch that were behind the 13th and 15th greens. We're working on it but have a long way to go.

At your club how did you go about the removal process? Did you tackle one specific hole at a time or move thru the course hitting what you thought were the worse areas one at a time?

I haven't seen Bino in a few years. I know he's down in your neck of the woods now. Great guy.
Title: Re: Another big fan of Monroe
Post by: Kevin Lynch on August 18, 2014, 10:13:07 PM

Patrick, not sure when you were in Rochester if you ever played or visited Penfield CC. We could remove 500++pine trees that are snuffing out some beautiful Oaks. Our greenskeeper Don Bloom would love us to give him the funds to take them all out. I've probably played Monroe 30 times and I've never noticed an over abundance of spruces in the playing areas anyway. The fairways are wide enough that I never really thought the trees were a problem.

I've played in the Member / Guest at Penfield for the past 3 years and that is a phenomenal course just waiting to be dug out from the walls of trees.  They've definitely been making progress with the removal, but it's amazing how expensive it is to reverse the relatively cheap planting of excessive pines.

The set-up of the greens this past event was on par with what I saw at Merion a few weeks earlier.  The greens were very firm without being ridiculous, and really ensured that playing angles mattered again.  For example, if you came up just short and left of 10, you had almost no chance of getting up & down, yet alone stopping on the green.  

I'm hoping Don can convince the membership that the firm, sloped greens will eliminate the need for narrow playing corridors choked out by trees.  At the very least, I'd like to see some of the walls of trees thinned out to provide even a small possibility of recovery.  There are so many area where 20 trees are planted, where the same objective could be accomplished with 2 or 3 judicious survivors (especially when there are specimen trees hidden in there, as you noted).  

It will take a long time given the cost, but I think Penfield is in great hands right now. And all that is on top of the awesome and casual membership at the club - absolutely the most comfortable club for a member/guest.