Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: wsmorrison on September 10, 2008, 10:12:58 AM
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I've seen "Alps holes" used in 1896 by an architect from Scotland. Did Macdonald employ the template concept at Chicago GC before NGLA?
Tom Paul,
Wasn't there a template named at Myopia pretty early on? I hope to learn more about that course one of these days. Maybe I can borrow your club history book sometime.
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Wayne -
I don't have any idea about the answer to your question. But I was reading a little on the early days of golf and came across this article from 1900 in "Outing" magazine. I thought it was a neat little snapshot of those very early times, at least from one man's perspective. The article is called "The Development of Golf in the West" and it's by H.C. Charfield-Taylor. It starts:
"A club whizzed through the air — a sharp click—and Charles B. Macdonald drove the little sphere of gutta percha far over the water of Lake Michigan in approved St. Andrews fashion. I looked at Macdonald in amazement, and then followed his eyes in the direction of the Lake. He may have seen the ball, but I would have to take his word for it. That drive, however, started the golf craze in the West.
Macdonald teed another ball and handed his driver to me. I attempted to imitate his actions, and after a series of contortions which would have done honor to the rubber-man in Barnum’s side-show, tore up a foot of turf without in any way disturbing the equanimity of the little white object I had striven so viciously to hit. Macdonald laughed, and I said “damn.” That was in April, 1892 — and I have been saying it ever since.
Macdonald had come up to Lake Forest to lay out a golf course. With supreme contempt he eyed the trees and flower beds, and said the ground would never do. Finally he decided it was worth while trying — if only to give the game a start — and after a few glances about the place, he started out to pace off the holes. And what a course it was! The first hole was eighty yards in length, the longest a hundred and seventy-five.
Part of the course was amongst the trees and flower-beds of the adjoining places of Mr. C. B. Farwell and Mr. John Dwight, and the rest in a small park by the shore of the lake, where a sliced ball invariably went over the bluff and fell some two hundred feet to the beach below; but, such as it was, it had the honor of being the first golf course west of the Allegheny Mountains.
Macdonald did not play that first day. He merely drove a few balls to show me how the trick was done, and drove stakes in the ground to show where the holes were to be. When he went back to town, he left behind a collection of ancient Scottish clubs— relics of his college days at
St. Andrews— and a few old halls.
On the following Saturday, Urban H. Broughton, an English resident of Chicago, came up for a visit. He had played —at Sandwich, or some such place—and was keen to have a go at the game. The hole-cups were not yet in place, and it was raining torrents—but that did not dampen our ardor. In a blinding storm, we waded around the nine holes, losing most of Macdonald’s balls, and playing the game with the singular modification that holing out meant hitting the stake in the fewest number of strokes. I have heard vague rumors of some Scotchmen driving balls in Jackson Park, at an earlier date, until stopped by the police— but they were Scotchmen, and they were only driving balls, so I believe that that attempt in the rain was the first authentic golf game ever played in the West...
[After a bit about how few people played or understood the game, the article continues]
In ’93 it was a little better. But the coming of Sir Henry Wood, the British Commissioner General, to the Exposition, lent a certain dignity to the game—and during that year the Chicago Golf Club was conceived. Macdonald, who had never thoroughly approved of the unassuming efforts of the Lake Forest golfers, had, been casting about for a place where it would be possible to take a full swing without over driving the hole. Finally he discovered an Englishman with a farm of meadowland. The Englishman was J. Haddon Smith, the step-father of Miss “Johnny” Carpenter—the well-known player—and the farm was at Belmont, a suburban waystation, about twenty miles from the city.
Meantime, people had begun to hear of golf, so, with the assistance of such Scottish experts as James B. Forgan and Herbert and Lawrence Tweedie, a few Americans who were bold enough to try the experiment were "corralled" by Mr. Macdonald, and the Chicago Golf Club sprang into being. This was in the autumn of '93 - too late for the effort to bear visible fruit that year".
The article goes on to describe the growth of golf at Lake Forest and at the new clubs that were springing up in the area, but only makes a brief mention of the Chicago Golf Club opening in 1895, so I won't include more of it.
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I've seen "Alps holes" used in 1896 by an architect from Scotland. Did Macdonald employ the template concept at Chicago GC before NGLA?
Wayne, I have only walked Chicago Golf Club (for the wonderful weekend of the 2005 Walker Cup), but didn't see an Alps hole - unless #17 might somehow meet the criteria.
The present course was apparently the rebuilding of the original Macdonald course by Raynor, so I have no idea if the original course had the template holes. I'd be willing to bet it did though, which would predate NGLA.
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Peter,
Thanks for that! I had read the story of the Farwell course in Lake Forest, but only abbreviated summaries from other sources. It was a pleasure to read most of the whole article to learn that the little course actually spilled out onto another estate and possibly a public park. I wonder how that could be, even in those simpler times?
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My guess would be the Alps at Myopia or the Redan at Brookline. I believe Macdonald's template idea came after the best hole debate in the early 1900s. There was a Redan added to the course at Wheaton but that came in the late 1900s.
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Bill McBride,
If you read how CBM created the original CGC I think you'd change your mind on where the first template hole was introduced in America.
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I just copied and pasted this from something I wrote on a previous thread.
One of the major points of contention when these Merion stories originally surfaced years back, and again recently, is the question of how Hugh Wilson and the Merion committee would have possibly learned about Alps holes, and Redan holes, and such without the benefit of Macdonald and Whigham's expert knowledge.
However, we now see that a course Hugh Wilson played as far back as his college years had an "Alps" hole back in 1896, (check out the picture halfway down the left side) and another notable course had a "redan" and a "himalayas", a "maiden", a "plateau", and a "Quarry", and a "Home" hole by the time it hosted the 1910 US Open.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9B06E0D61338E233A25755C0A9649D94679ED7CF
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/AmericanGolfer/1910/ag44d.pdf
Apparently these template holes were not uncommon at all, even going back to the earliest days.
I think what was uncommon was Macdonald's idea to take the best of the lot and try to put them all on one "ideal" course.
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I don't believe the Redan hole at TCC, Brookline existed until sometime after 1898. I don't know when the hole was built, but I suspect it was built before Macdonald began building NGLA. Was it by Willie Campbell? I don't know. Again, I was writing a book on Flynn and briefly mention the history of the course prior to Flynn. The Brookline evolution study is very complicated and we pretty much stuck to
what the course was like immediately preceding Flynn's work, Flynn's activities and what remains or is lost today.
Did Macdonald use concepts from the UK in constructing the first two iterations of CGC prior to the Raynor redo? I hope somebody can tell us.
Peter,
That is an excellent article, thank you for providing it. It brings into question the exact roles did Macdonald, Forgan and Tweedie have in the design of CGC.
I don't think there is sufficient evidence in the records of these early courses, and likely never were, to make these kinds of determinations. Trying to find evidence that provide incontestable proof is impossible or nearly so, even for clubs in the 1910s and 1920s. While it may be a goal of historians, it is often an illusive one. While it is something lawyers strive for, it is often a endless chase.
It is hard to say whether or not the early Alps holes preceding NGLA were inspired by Prestwick or were named simply because of the hill features themselves having nothing specifically to do with the design at Prestwick.
I am simply trying to determine if there was a point of origin prior to NGLA where hole concepts were replicated (conceptually or otherwise) based upon strategic features. It seems clear that until Macdonald and NGLA, there was no strategy to poll among the game's elite what the best holes were and bring those concepts, in original and rendition forms to the US.
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Mike,
The 1896 article you posted was exactly the one I was referring to. I didn't want to post it for copyright purposes since I used ProQuest. If it is available for free at the link you posted, then I'm sure it is fine.
As for the named holes at TCC, you read my mind as well. I was going to get to that one later. I don't think they existed as early as Ardsely Casino, but they did predate NGLA. Scary how much we are thinking alike. That Philadelphia Syndrome is powerful stuff ;) ;D
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Hutchinson's 1896 (?) book British Golf Links refers to named holes on many UK courses. So the idea of naming famous holes goes back at least that far. I would assume the idea carried over to the US early on as well.
Related question: Were holes always numbered? Was there a time when holes were only referred to by name? My recollection is that holes at TOC in the 19th century were usually referenced by name and not by number.
Bob
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et. al.,
The names of holes isn't the defining criterion for determining their architectural configuration
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Pat,
Do you know that to be true in every instance? I suspect not. You may turn out to be right, but that's why I am exploring this area and welcome the contributions of everyone on the site.
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Pat -
If the names given to famous holes didn't correspond to features of the holes in the real world, how did people know what those names meant?
Bob
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Mike,
The 1896 article you posted was exactly the one I was referring to. I didn't want to post it for copyright purposes since I used ProQuest. If it is available for free at the link you posted, then I'm sure it is fine.
As for the named holes at TCC, you read my mind as well. I was going to get to that one later. I don't think they existed as early as Ardsely Casino, but they did predate NGLA. Scary how much we are thinking alike. That Philadelphia Syndrome is powerful stuff ;) ;D
Wayne,
Yes, that's a free article on the NYTiimes website.
If you have a way of posting it here, it isn't in violation of anything.
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Also, if I'm not mistaken, Willie Dunn designed Ardsley Casino.
I'm pretty certain he would have both seen and played the original Alps.
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Do you know that to be true in every instance?
It doesn't have to be true in EVERY instance.
It ONLY has to be true in ONE instance.
For once it's true in one instance, it invalidates the other.
I suspect not.
I suspect that you're incorrect.
You may turn out to be right,
I believe that will be the case.
We know that # 5 at NGLA is called hog back.
Are there any CBM-SR-CB holes with a relatively flat fairway with a spine/hogback in the putting surface, that are named "hog back" ?
but that's why I am exploring this area and welcome the contributions of everyone on the site.
I've seen holes named after the recognizable template hole names and they don't contain any substantive resemblance to the concept behind the
template name.
I believe the "name" was used in a generous, rather than a clearly defined, specific nature.
Clubs wanted to have the CBM-SR-CB logo, hence adapting the names of the recognized templates gave the club a form of validation.
One merely has to play a variety of their courses to see this.
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Patrick,
What about the uses prior to CBM on courses built by Scottish professionals?
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Wayne:
According to Myopia's history in 1894 nine holes were laid out by three Myopia members and were in play in three months. One of those holes was named "Alps". It played from a tee near the present 10th tee over an abrupt hill to a green that today is the 11th green. It was probably around 200 and some yards. The daring high-risk option was to try to drive the ball directly over the steep hill that completely blinded the green that was set at a severely right to left sloping angle. The safer option was to drive the ball out to the left and approach the green up into its severe tilt from about the spot that most golfers approach the 300 plus yard 11th today. That original 1894 Myopia "Alps" hole was considered to be a par 4.
If there was an earlier hole in America named "Alps" I'm not aware of it or where it was.
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I've seen holes named after the recognizable template hole names and they don't contain any substantive resemblance to the concept behind the
template name.
Pat,
You've also seen holes where the name was applied without any substantive resemblance to the concept but you thought it did. You know, the third hole on one of my favorite courses ;)
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:-*
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Patrick,
What about the uses prior to CBM on courses built by Scottish professionals?
Which ones ?
And which holes on those courses ?
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I've seen holes named after the recognizable template hole names and they don't contain any substantive resemblance to the concept behind the
template name.
Pat,
You've also seen holes where the name was applied without any substantive resemblance to the concept but you thought it did.
And that would be ? ? ?
You know, the third hole on one of my favorite courses ;)
# 3 at NGLA ? ? ?
Certainly you don't deny the "Alps" configuration, do you ?
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Wayne:
According to the Myopia history book, golf first arrived in and around Boston on three private estates as early as 1892, belonging to the Hunnewell family, Moraine Farm on the shores of Wenham Lake belonging to the Phillips family and Appleton Farm, belonging to Myopia master huntsman, R.M. Appleton who was one of the three Myopia members who laid out Myopia's original nine in 1894. Appleton Farm still exists today pretty much in its entirety and is believed by the Appleton Farm Foundation to be the oldest farm in America still in the same family.
I believe the place is close to a thousand acres in Ipswich. I went to it last July but I did not ask the office if Appleton's original six holes are still there in some form. The place is really well run and they do know the history of the farm going way back. I'll call them and ask if those holes are still there in some form or if they know where they were or what they were. Perhaps Appleton had an "Alps" hole on his Appleton Farm course as it seems he and his two friends certainly found one at Myopia in 1894.
The first two tournaments on that original Myopia nine were held in June and July, 1894. Herbert Carey Leeds won them both.
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Bill McBride,
If you read how CBM created the original CGC I think you'd change your mind on where the first template hole was introduced in America.
Where did I say my mind was made up? I'm befuddled as usual. Please enlighten me.
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I've seen holes named after the recognizable template hole names and they don't contain any substantive resemblance to the concept behind the
template name.
Pat,
You've also seen holes where the name was applied without any substantive resemblance to the concept but you thought it did. You know, the third hole on one of my favorite courses ;)
Good example: there's a par 3 on Keith Foster's very nice course, "The Bandit," in New Braunfels, TX, that's named "Redan" on the scorecard.
It has no characteristic remotely similar to the prototype or any other Redan I've ever seen. That cracked me up!
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Bill McBride,
George Bahto's "Evangelist of Golf" provides an insightful summary.
It's a good book for GCA enthusiasts. If you don't have it, you should get it.
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Bill McBride,
George Bahto's "Evangelist of Golf" provides an insightful summary.
It's a good book for GCA enthusiasts. If you don't have it, you should get it.
I've got it and love to browse it. Mostly I drool over the photos of NGLA and reminisce about my 36 holes and lobster soup there a couple of years ago this very week! ;D
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Pat,
I do believe there are a number of concept similarities between the Alps at NGLA and the Alps at Prestwick. No doubt about that. I like tee to green better at NGLA but I like the green concept a lot better at Prestwick.
However, you are thinking of the wrong course. Here's a clue: It is one of my top two courses in America and I'm going there in a few minutes ;)
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Wayno,
Ah yes, how foolish of me to forget the REDAN hole at MERION.
It does have some REDAN like qualities, hence I can see how some would label it a REDAN.
I don't consider it a REDAN, although I do acknowledge that it has some of the REDAN qualities.
Mike Cirba insists that the 11th at LACC North is a redan, some feel the 7th at Sleepy Hollow is a redan as well. While they might have Redan like qualities, I don't consider them purebreds, but I do recognize their characteristics.
I think # 1 green at The Creek is more redan like than many other holes which are labeled as Redans.
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Patrick,
What about the uses prior to CBM on courses built by Scottish professionals?
Which ones ?
And which holes on those courses ?
Patrick,
Evidently you missed the two links I provided above. ;)
The first is a NY Times article that has a picture of golfers at Ardsley Casino (Willie Dunn) playing an "Alps" hole there.
The second is an American Golfer article that describes The Country Club course at Brookline hole-by-hole in 1910. There are any number of holes named after famous template holes and I believe that Tom MacWood has pointed out Scotsman Willie Campbell's involvement there.
Are you suggesting that the multitudes of Scottish professionals coming to these shores in the late 1890s and beyond had no idea of the famous holes in their own country?? ;D
Believe it or not, golf and knowledge of golf did not just arrive on these shores with CB Macdonald. He was a great force and advanced the strategic concepts of the game immensely, but he was FAR from the only one who had played golf overseas prior to NGLA, not the least those who were born there!
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Mike Cirba,
I draw a distinction between "naming" a hole after a template and "designing and building" a hole after a template.
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Mike Cirba,
I draw a distinction between "naming" a hole after a template and "designing and building" a hole after a template.
That's a fair distinction, Patrick, but it begs two questions;
1) Why would a Scottish professional demean his homeland by calling just any old American hole his country's namesake?
2) Don't you think they more "found" holes that reminded them of the look and characteristics of a famous hole on the Auld Sod, then purposefully so much "designed" or "Built" them?
Perhaps that's what made Macdonald's NGLA such a novelty....the fact that CB actually set out to mold the land into something resembling 18 such "ideal holes", dont you agree?
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Mike
You (and Bob Crosby earlier) are onto an interesting line of enquiry.
The naming of holes on UK courses before and around the turn of the last century was prevalent (although never universal). While the same name would be recycled, particularly the obvious ones (e.g. Long, Short, Home, Alps, etc.), my understanding is that there was no attempt in GBI to make specific copies of "great" holes, even after CB got his brainstorm and built NGLA. As far as I know the MacRaynor templates have never made the return journey back across the pond, not even today.
My best guess is that the naming of holes in the UK was a very simplistic exercise, ased on appearance rather than any thoughts of "strategy." "Long" holes were long, on "Alps" holes you had to hit over an "alp," the "Redan" looked like a redan, the "Witch" was adjacent to the site of a witch burning, etc. In fact, the only "template" I can think of on UK courses is the "Spien Kop," which we have discussed before, which is little known as it occurs mostly on little known courses. Because they are little known, they are little copied in the US as they have no street cred. However, opne of the best "Spien Kop" holes I have ever seen is the 9th at Cypress Point. I wonder, dd the designer of CPC have any knowledge of the Boer War.......?
Rich
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Mike Cirba,
I draw a distinction between "naming" a hole after a template and "designing and building" a hole after a template.
That's a fair distinction, Patrick, but it begs two questions;
1) Why would a Scottish professional demean his homeland by calling just any old American hole his country's namesake?
Mike, you always seem to insert a wild, false, qualifying, statement in order to validate your point, a seriously flawed point in this case.
In this case it's the insertion of the word "demean".
Calling a hole at TCC an "alps" because is traverses a section of land that rises to block the view beyond, is in no way demeaning anyone's homeland.
It's a simple reference to a general concept that's found at Prestwick and other courses. One that's easily transported to where a similar situation with the land arises.
2) Don't you think they more "found" holes that reminded them of the look and characteristics of a famous hole on the Auld Sod, then purposefully so much "designed" or "Built" them?
That's my point.
They saw general resemblances, and thus, named the hole.
However, that doesn't confer "template" status upon the hole, merely a similarity in the eyes of the namer.
Perhaps that's what made Macdonald's NGLA such a novelty....the fact that CB actually set out to mold the land into something resembling 18 such "ideal holes", dont you agree?
Yes, except that some of the holes at NGLA are ORIGINALS and not duplicates, templates or composites.
He was trying to raise the level of the holes from the UK through his interpretation of their strategic values in combination with the land at NGLA and his hand.
It was his efforts, rather than the discovery of hidden natural holes that miraculously resembled the ones he fawned over in the UK.
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Richard the Magnificent:
Although I can't remember where or which ones they were, I do remember courses in my early years that had all their holes named but they didn't have anything to do with templates from abroad or anywhere else. They always had something to do with some unique characteristic to do with the particular hole itself.
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In fact, the only "template" I can think of on UK courses is the "Spien Kop," which we have discussed before, which is little known as it occurs mostly on little known courses. Because they are little known, they are little copied in the US as they have no street cred. However, opne of the best "Spien Kop" holes I have ever seen is the 9th at Cypress Point. I wonder, dd the designer of CPC have any knowledge of the Boer War.......?
I am confused (befuddled ??? ) about "Spion Kop" holes. I've played the Spion Kop at Crail Balcomie and I've played the Spion Kop at Castlerock in Northern Ireland. They could not be any different.
The Spion Kop at Crail is a sturdy, uphill par 3 around 165 yards that plays 10 yards longer.
The Spion Kop at Castlerock is a par 4 around 425 yards that is gently uphill but has a large mound in the middle of the fairway; you pretty much have to play around it unless you are mega-long.
As I understand a "cop" in golf lingo, it's a berm-like low ridge like those we saw outlining the central field at Hoylake. Here's a photo, that's a "cop" between the photographer and the players on the green:
(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/images/Hoylake3a.jpg)
I know "Spion Kop" refers to a topographical feature in South Africa from the Boer War, but how do the two holes at Crail Balcomie and Castlerock get the name except as a very obscure reference? One's green is on a mound, the other is protected by a mound 180 yards from the green.
So I guess you are thinking #9 at Cypress Point is benched into a mound so it's also a "Spion Kop?"
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Does anyone know who designed the first island green? Graves and Cornish give credit to Pete Dye (9 at Ponte Vedra) with the comment "several less well know 'islands' preceded it."
Mr. Phil Young, when did AWT design his first reef hole?
What are the famous American Gibraltar holes?
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Does anyone know who designed the first island green? Graves and Cornish give credit to Pete Dye (9 at Ponte Vedra) with the comment "several less well know 'islands' preceded it."
Don't Cornish & Whitten credit RTJ and Strong with Ponte Vedra ?
Tillinghast preceeded Dye by more than a few decades with the island green on # 9 at Shackamaxon.
Mr. Phil Young, when did AWT design his first reef hole?
What are the famous American Gibraltar holes?
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Does anyone know who designed the first island green? Graves and Cornish give credit to Pete Dye (9 at Ponte Vedra) with the comment "several less well know 'islands' preceded it."
Don't Cornish & Whitten credit RTJ and Strong with Ponte Vedra ?
Tillinghast preceeded Dye by more than a few decades with the island green on # 9 at Shackamaxon.
Mr. Phil Young, when did AWT design his first reef hole?
What are the famous American Gibraltar holes?
Pat, actually I misread it; they don't credit anyone but you are correct.
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Mike (and Wayne),
That NY Times article is inconclusive. For example, Tuxedo Park had an "Alps" hole as of 1894. Was it a template hole or just a hole named "Alps"?
The case for: the green was blind and sat over a hill.
The case against: described as a hole whose "duplicate would be hard to find anywhere in the world." It was a 146-yard par 3.
Calling it an "Alps hole" doesn't make it an Alps Hole, if you catch my drift.
Crossing the ocean and devolving significantly (sorry for the ramble!), the use in the English language of the word "redan" precedes the Crimean War by a good 50 years. It simply meant a raised battlement that was leveled off.
The word often is believed to be Russian and which entered the English language as a formal noun attached to a Russian-named fortification. This is false. "Redan" was a name given by the British to one of the major forts defending Sebastopol. The Russians didn't name it Redan.
So by Rhic's excellent research, two vets return home to N Berwick, see the raised green and think, "Redan," i.e., the fortification in the Crimean.
The green, raised as it was, resembled a standard redan fortification. But in its fearsome challenge, the hole earned the formal noun: the soldiers made a direct link to their wartime experience and named it after the Crimean "Redan."
But there could have been redans on golf courses all across the country. Such holes could well have been built to mimic generic redans. Not only that, people named other things "Redan," like horses. Not sure we've seen any "template" Redan racehorses, though!
Which is kind of my point: the word was around a long time, lots of things might have been named redan -- and then that Crimean fort managed to earn a capital-R "Redan," after which the N Berwick hole, owing to its being named after this specific fort, earned same.
But the soldiers didn't "template" the hole, they just drew a parallel, just stuck a name on it.
So the first template Redan hole would not be N Berwick's, for it was simply named much as other holes are, not for a set of principles but for a likeness or defining feature. Just like the "Alps hole" at Tuxedo.
The first template would have to be whoever took the underlying principles of how the hole played, then gave a name to those principles: "Redan" as concept.
None of this is probably helpful and even worse looks like a horrible case of showing off but honestly I spent a chunk of last winter looking into the Crimean War owing to my interest in a few photographs plus the N Berwick hole and am grateful an outlet sprung up for this peculiar compulsion!
Mark
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There were island greens going way, way, WAY back before Strong's at Ponte Vedra.
There was one at Baltusrol in 1910, which probably inspired Tillinghast, because he built a slew of them, including at his Aronimink club around 1914, at Olde York Road in PA around the same time at Galen Hall just a few years later around 1917, and my favorite of all was built by Hugh Wilson and company at Cobb's Creek, opening 1916.
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Mike Cirba,
Are you sure that those greens were true island greens, connected to the mainland solely by bridges, or did they have an earthen connector ?
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Patrick,
Yes.
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I had always heard that Tillie had several island greens that pre-dated Strong's 9th at PV.
BTW, PV was was to be the site of 1939 Ryder Cup matches, eventually called off because of WWII. It was a highly ranked course in its day, then...
RTJ was asked in the mid-1950's to "soften" Strong's course.
Several years ago Bobby Weed made some good changes, particularly to the par 5's on the back. I do not know if they would count as restorations of Strong's holes.
Bob
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In 1900 H.J. Tweedie laid out a hole called Spioenkop at Homewood CC (now called Flossmoor CC). Originally a 140 yard uphill shot to a green well bunkered in the front. Now stretched to 180+ from the tips, the green moves from front to back and from left to right. A really good par 3 that would be better with the fronting bunker replaced.
Tweedie was from Royal Liverpool but I have no idea if it was patterned after holes in the UK. It was however patterned after the hilltop battle site from the Boer war with its green perched atop a plateau with bunkers representing the blow-outs from numerous shells that pock marked the actual Spioenkop in S. Africa.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/troonster/GCA%20posts/11a31186.jpg)
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Dan, thanks for that photo, that's more like the Crail par 3 than the par 4 at Castlerock.
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There were island greens going way, way, WAY back before Strong's at Ponte Vedra.
There was one at Baltusrol in 1910, which probably inspired Tillinghast, because he built a slew of them, including at his Aronimink club around 1914, at Olde York Road in PA around the same time at Galen Hall just a few years later around 1917, and my favorite of all was built by Hugh Wilson and company at Cobb's Creek, opening 1916.
Mike, I don't think Baltusrol #9 was a true island hole.