Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Bradley Anderson on August 04, 2008, 04:49:23 PM
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I am just curious what everyone's thoughts are on these subjects. And I would love to see some photos posted here with examples.
Do you like a striped poles, or a plain colored pole?
I like a striped pole.
What color stripe?
I'll go with a color that matches the clubs colors.
Do you like the thick poles that are not flexible, or the thinner flexible poles?
The thinner poles deflect a ball less distance if you hit the pole, and for that reason I like the thinner pole. They also flex more with the wind and they hold a better vertical plain - in my opinion.
Do you like the colored flag system to designate front middle back?
I don't care either way. But if your club has strong colors, you shouldn't go with the colored flags.
Do you like a grommeted tie on flag, or a plastic tube flag?
I like the old fashioned grommeted flag that you tie on with cotton string.
What about 15O markers?
I kind of like them in the ground on the edge of the fairway painted white. And you can have them at 100 (red) and 200 (yellow), plus 250 (blue) on three shot holes.
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I love this look. Actual wooden flagstick with only the number of the hole on the flag.
How am I supposed to include a picture. I can't get it to work.
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Does pole slap hurt the green? I always go out of my way to either lay the flag down gently because it seems pole slap leaves a dent/shadow plus can be distracting to groups on nearby holes.
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I like the wood poles and flags like LACC or Friars Head are appealing to me.
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Besides Merion?
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Wood is best. When they snap in half due to the wind, you know it too blustry to play on. ;D
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Besides Merion?
Majorly overlooked on my part. I'll add that to my list. I love the look of them.
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Can somebody let me know how to include a photo in my post.
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Do any highly ranked courses use red, white and blue flags to indicate pin position? I always like special flags for special occasions. This fourth of July the local Elks course had American flags. Special tournament flags are always cool. Does Merion use tournament baskets...puke.
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John,
I don't know of any high ranked courses that use the colored pin position flags, but I am aware of some that have different colored flags for front and back nines.
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I always loved the thick striped poles. Regardless of club colors black and white poles seem to work well and provide a great contrast from a distance. Merion would certainly be my first choice for "flag" pole design even though the player loses that helpful indicator of wind direction with the wicker baskets. A very fair trade for being unique in my opinion. As far as colored flags for pin positions go, I'm not a huge fan. I would much rather see flags consistent with the club colors/logo and/or hole number with a daily pin sheet available. I think it adds to the mistique of the great clubs to use a consistent flag design.
Fun question.
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1- solid white pin - solid white flag
2- solid yellow pin - solid yellow flag
both with early club logos. I have found the striped poles supposed contrast to be less visible than solid white or yellow.
A member told me yesterday he has trouble with yellow as it is a form of green - color blindness?
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I like the pole and wicker basket. No color identifiers.
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I prefer the checkerboard flag, or a single, highly-visible colored flag. I'm not too picky about my pins. The wooden ones I've seen are a neat touch, but plastic works just fine as well.
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(http://thestylepage.com/images/american-flag.jpg)
America. F%&# yeah!
Coming again, to save the mother f%&#ing day yeah,
America, F%&# yeah!
Freedom is the only way yeah.
That, and USGA flags
(http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/74585119.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193C4F70F8076A39DEE3C3B7DDBA2B06BDC284831B75F48EF45)
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I love the look of this flag
(http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff327/Rcknrobert/100_1185.jpg)
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JaKa,
One of the guys on grounds thought that U.S. flags would be a nice touch so they bought some and put them on the poles for Memorial Day. The first complaint came back to me shortly after I opened at 7:00 am and by 8:00 I had replaced all the U.S. flags with our standard ones.
The Vets were not too happy about seeing the flag thrown on the ground.
Brad,
A Superintendent in the NE recently conducted an experiment to see if there was any difference in how various flagsticks, 1/2", 3/4" tapered, or 1" fiberglass/aluminum, reacted to chip shots.
They sent 100 balls (at each flagstick) down a 10' piece of PVC pipe that was elevated 2' feet off the green at the loading end, and the end touching the green was set 14" from the hole. This simulated a direct hit at a medium pace.
The results: 72% went in using the 1/2" tapered flagstick, 67% went in for the 3/4" tapered flagstick. The absolute worst was the 1" pole, 0% went in
when using it in the test.
I guess I like 1/2" the best, especially when I'm chipping. ;D
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I love the look of this flag
(http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff327/Rcknrobert/100_1185.jpg)
I think this flag would be annoying because the bottom foot of it is hard to see. Your depth perception would be affected and it would be hard to focus on the hole, especially against any kind of cluttered background. I consider this flagstick tricked up!
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Jim - Glad someone did the experiment with the flagsticks. We have thick metal poles that only accept the slowest moving shots. I hate them... and have petitioned to have the old, skinnier ones back to no avail.
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Jay,
Have your superintendent get a hold of Rich Gagnon, the super who did the testing. He's at Segregansett CC in Taunton, Ma.
Maybe the info will convince your green committee.
p.s. don't ask for American flags
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This is some great information. Thank you to every one who has contributed.
Jim Kennedy, that research on the thickness of the flag pole is priceless. Thanks.
I was just out at Oakland Hills this afternoon, and the yellow flag and yellow pole really do stand out the best of any color combo I have seen.
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Matt,
I don't think this flag is annoying. Tricked up? Different maybe. The white at the bottom of the flag is way easier to see than a black bottom or wood. For example: Put a black golf ball on the green and a white ball on the green then step back 60 yards.
If anything the wood is hard to see. The only time I can imagine the color of the bottom foot messing with your perception would be in a skyline green situation. And it is pretty much impossible even if it was glowing neon in that case.
Seeing a white stick is the easiest to see against any green floor or background in my opinion. The composite (non wood) bottoms are pretty useful for Cheeseborough Co. and their clients, pretty much the only way to go in a windy situation.
I love the look of this flag
(http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff327/Rcknrobert/100_1185.jpg)
I think this flag would be annoying because the bottom foot of it is hard to see. Your depth perception would be affected and it would be hard to focus on the hole, especially against any kind of cluttered background. I consider this flagstick tricked up!
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I have not seen these in person, but I am really intrigued by them, especially the twin pennant.
I'll have to see if I can get a demo.
Paired with their wooden poles.
http://www.cheesebrough.com/Flags.html
1- solid white pin - solid white flag
2- solid yellow pin - solid yellow flag
For a modern look I agree with Mike.
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The Vets were not too happy about seeing the flag thrown on the ground.
Have these mini Gadsen flags made up instead, easily seen in bright yellow and none of the Vets would be upset at all!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Gadsden_flag.svg/800px-Gadsden_flag.svg.png)
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If it's somewhere typically windy, I like the extra weight:
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b67/bsleeman/CrystalDowns/9-24-07116.jpg)
Otherwise I like a little contrast and simplicity:
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b67/bsleeman/Greywalls/9-24-07245.jpg)
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I'm a huge fan of the black and white pole with the red flag (continued throughout), and i'm not certain that I know why.
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(http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/corbis/DGT295/checkered-flag_~JFL0093.jpg)
And
(http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p971519dt.jpg)
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The first course I played had all red flags with a simple white number on each. The poles were alternating barber striped black and white.
In all my years playing that game, I've never seen anything that improved on that simple and understated look.
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Brian,
I love those pictures you posted. Very cool flags and poles.
Keep em coming.
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I like the wood poles and flags like LACC or Friars Head are appealing to me.
David, I am in line with your preferences. Here is a picture of one of Friars Head's flag:
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/eko_gfl/IMG_0592Cropped.jpg)
Its been a long time since I played LACC. Do they use similar flags?
Ed
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Another variation of the wooden flagstick with a triangle pennant style flag.
(http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc341/crbrown1976/DSCN0141.jpg)
(http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc341/crbrown1976/DSCN0140.jpg)
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We used the wooden flagsticks from cheeseborough for one year and they did not last. They either warped due to sunlight or moisture or dried up and the accessories all fell apart.
They were a focal point and something to talk about for a year but we never did use them again.
Typical comments were " hard to see" and "not very forgiving if you hit them".
We now have 8' solid white flagsticks with white flags. I like them but would like to see what the membership thinks of solid yellow stick.
Sharpee
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I really think this depends upon the club, setting, course style, and region. It seems more appropriate for a striped pole and number flags on some traditional golden age designs while a wooden Cheesebrough pin may be more appropriate for a rural woodland course. I would say the best are those that respond to the character of the course and its community, however broad that may be.
Personally, I prefer the thin pole, if for no other reason than that it makes me feel stronger (think Seinfeld's hotel soap observation). I like the black and white striping, especially when horizon greens are present. Flags are usually best when one color and numbered, but once again it is all about the local flavor. Originality is also applauded, such as Crystal Downs's half stripes, Merion's Baskets, Belvedere's four square, or any unusual shape or pattern or anything that adds a genuine character to a place.
John K,
Crystal Downs uses Red, Yellow, and Blue positional flags. That's a highly rated course. See Brian's photo of #9.
Jim K,
I played a course that had American flags for the Fourth weekend, and they had little stands at the sides of each green, "so that our NATION'S flag need not touch the ground. A really cool gesture, though there were a lot of hole locations really tight to the edge of the green that day for some reason :)
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Cory,
Is that #10 at Overlake?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Jordan
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I like flags with hole numbers. 20 years ago when I was a kid and was learning how to play, I used to see them a lot. I almost never see them these days, with the proliferation of club logos being used instead.
The public course I grew up playing had yellow poles and yellow flags with the hole numbers sewn on in black. A very simple look but one I grew to like.
This course also used to have flagsticks with yellow and black checkerboard flags in the middle of the fairway at the turnpoint on holes which had sharp doglegs. After I'd played there for a couple of years, they were taken out. No course I've ever seen before or since had such a thing.
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Jordan,
Good eye. That is the tenth at Overlake. Unfortunately this picure was taken in the winter in the middle of our cart path construction project and you can see the tie in work still being done. I should add a newer picture. The course is playing very firm and fast, it's a lot of fun.
Go Cougs.
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IMO, there is little room for moving when it comes to good flagsticks.
Flags should be white or red.
Poles should be white or black and white striped.
Logos on white flags are ok. Numbers are ok.
Anything that doesn't conform with the following three photos is crap*
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z17/Digby_Jeffrey/flag1.jpg)
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z17/Digby_Jeffrey/flag2.jpg)
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z17/Digby_Jeffrey/flag3.jpg)
*Merion excepted.
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I like the wood poles and flags like LACC or Friars Head are appealing to me.
Does anyone have a visual for a Friar's Head flag/stick combo?
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I like the wood poles and flags like LACC or Friars Head are appealing to me.
David, I am in line with your preferences. Here is a picture of one of Friars Head's flag:
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/eko_gfl/IMG_0592Cropped.jpg)
Its been a long time since I played LACC. Do they use similar flags?
Ed
Does Friar's Head use 2 separate flags? Is there a close up?
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IMO, there is little room for moving when it comes to good flagsticks.
Flags should be white or red.
Poles should be white or black and white striped.
Logos on white flags are ok. Numbers are ok.
Anything that doesn't conform with the following three photos is crap*
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z17/Digby_Jeffrey/flag1.jpg)
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z17/Digby_Jeffrey/flag2.jpg)
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z17/Digby_Jeffrey/flag3.jpg)
*Merion excepted.
Which courses are these?
Folks, please include names of the course...inquiring minds want to know.