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GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Sean_A on June 24, 2008, 01:03:03 PM

Title: 2008 Mayo & Sligo Tour: ENNISCRONE GC
Post by: Sean_A on June 24, 2008, 01:03:03 PM
Talk about a world away in design philosophy from Carne.  Enniscrone is much more a modern links where as Carne is modern, but old fashioned due to a lack of heavy machinery use.  Like my beef about not enough architect intervention at Carne, perhaps there was too much at Enniscrone.  Many of the greens have this built up look with waves of mounding around them.  In fact, some of these greens look similar to the work done at Hoylake not too long ago. Perhaps Steel was in a groove.  The current course has fully 6 Steel holes and 12 Hackett holes. Anyway, Enniscrone is a majestic course that has been transformed in recent years by using the dunes to great effect.  However, the walks between greens & tees because of the dunes are one of the drawbacks folks don't really think about as touristas.  In other words, Enniscrone is a tough walk.  Below are a handful of photos to wet your appetite. 

Approach to #2, a long par 5 which legs sharply right and up a hill.  All the par 5s at Enniscrone have something about them which make it difficult to reach in two despite their relatively short yardage. 
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3919.jpg?t=1242652197) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3919.jpg?t=1242652197)

#3 is a good par 3 into the dunes.  The falloff in the rear is quite severe. 
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3920.jpg?t=1242652322) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3920.jpg?t=1242652322)

The 4th is a double dogleg par 5.  If you take on the left corner with a bit of draw its possible to shoot a long way down the fairway and have an iron in.  We now head down to the flatter land for the terrific 5th hole.  Its a legger to the right, but not overly long.  Its tough to get the ball on the green and still hold because it angles away from the fairway.  This is the tee shot.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3923.jpg?t=1242652372) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3923.jpg?t=1242652372)

A large hump in the green protects a back left hole location.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3924.jpg?t=1242652408) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3924.jpg?t=1242652408)

The 6th is another good flat hole, but it does have a sting in its tail.  Longer hitters can take the line of the right edge of the bunkers and bang away.  The hole was quite tame during this trip, but I recall hitting a 3 wood home last time.  The green is a shelf type jobbie.  One has to feel comfortable hitting a sand wedge from a tight lie if they hit a good drive.  The 7th comes back on the 6th.  A shortish par 5 with a blind second. The green is quite unique as it juts out like a peninsula.  The 8th is a medium length par 3 slightly downhill.  The 9th is a toughie.  The wind blows toward the water on the left and the fairway runs this way as well.  The fairway is wider at the layup position, but then one faces the approach which is even more narrow than the drive.  Very clever hole.  One is tempted to bail right for the approach, but there is a hidden bunker lurking.  I really like these sorts of holes which try to eat at your confidence, but aren't long.

#10 is fairly straight forward with a gathering drive.  The 11th is a shortish uphill par 3 that sort of gathers in high dell.  Like Carne, Enniscrone has its funky back to back holes, 12 & 13.  I spose flat bellies can have a go at at the 12th, but I don't see a way to hold it unless a snap hook is the planned shot.  Even the approach is intimidating because its all uphill and you don't want to go too far past the flag.  13 is back down the hill and turns right.  One can definitely have a go for this green even though its blind - its a punchbowl of sorts.  A view of the green after a layup.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3942.jpg?t=1242652507) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3942.jpg?t=1242652507)

#14 is yet another of the seemingly endless par 5s.  It takes two good whacks to get into decent position for the approach.  The green is another with interest.  The entire right side drops away.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3943-1.jpg?t=1242652752) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3943-1.jpg?t=1242652752)

The course continues to gather pace with the all world 15th.  Its best to get the drive out to the right because a drive down the middle leaves precious little to aim at.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3946.jpg?t=1242653031) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3946.jpg?t=1242653031)

A closer look at the green.  The concept is so easy to angle greens away and tuck them behind stuff.  Why isn't it done more often?
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3948.jpg?t=1242653077) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3948.jpg?t=1242653077)

We finally play the last par 5 on 16.  Once again, the flat belly can go blind over the top to go for the green if he can carry the ball some 230 yards uphill into the wind.  The approach to #16.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3950.jpg?t=1242653119) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3950.jpg?t=1242653119)

#17 is a lovely little hole.  I don't have a clue why a fake dune isn't built to block out the crap.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3953.jpg?t=1242653178) (http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/ENNISCRONE/100_3953.jpg?t=1242653178)

18 is a new hole which comes back near the clubhouse and it isn't without merit. 

I don't think its any great surprise that I am dead keen on Enniscrone.  The course offers a tremendous variety of par 4s and par 5s.  The land is well used to take advantage of water on both sides of the course and of the flatter part of the property.  The greens have interest and for the most part the design allows for wind.  Generally, I think the man made work flows well with the surrounds and with the older parts of the course. However, I didn't like the somewhat long green to tee walks and the heaving nature of all the par 5s. The course is as good as I remembered and the welcome couldn't have been warmer, but the recent sharp price hikes mean it is unlikely I shall return.  2008

Rosses Point
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35264.msg711429.html#msg711429 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35264.msg711429.html#msg711429)

Strandhill
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35261.msg711110.html#msg711110 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35261.msg711110.html#msg711110)

Carne
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35268.msg711175.html#msg711175 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35268.msg711175.html#msg711175)

Ciao
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone (complete)
Post by: Tony_Muldoon on June 24, 2008, 05:08:13 PM

(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/100_3919.jpg?t=1214326357)


If I could crop the bottom half off this picture I'd hang it on the inside of my locker door.  Golf porn.

Enniscrone was "The Brothers" choice from RP, Enicrone and Carne.  Sean, can you tell us more about the reasons why it calls you back? In photo's it looks slightly flatter and less interesting that the others.
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone (complete)
Post by: Tom Huckaby on June 24, 2008, 05:12:35 PM
Paved cart paths?

"Buggies this way" signs?

Say it isn't so.  It's been 8 years now since I've played golf in Ireland.... has it become that Americanized?

Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone (complete)
Post by: Sean_A on June 24, 2008, 05:37:36 PM

(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/100_3919.jpg?t=1214326357)


If I could crop the bottom half off this picture I'd hang it on the inside of my locker door.  Golf porn.

Enniscrone was "The Brothers" choice from RP, Enicrone and Carne.  Sean, can you tell us more about the reasons why it calls you back? In photo's it looks slightly flatter and less interesting that the others.

Tony

I liked all the courses and would return to each.  I should also mention that I think Donegal is a terrific course as well.  There are a few reasons why I prefered Enniscrone.  First, like the story of the three bears, the terrain at Enniscrone wasn't too hilly or too flat.  There is still quite a significant amount of ground movement.  A few drawbacks might be that the walk isn't terribly clever and that nearly all the holes route between dunes with very little of going up and over once in a while.  Secondly, as a set, the greens at Enniscrone were more interesting than the others. Carne had some wild sites with cool kick ins (if the rough were down a bit), but once on the greens they were no great shakes and the same could be said for the others with the obvious exception of a handful at Strandhill.  I reckon ole Donald was quite clever in creating something which stood out in the area - though I think he went overboard a bit.  See the back of #18 green for an example of not knowing when to stop.  

My preferences as of today are

Strandhill
Enniscrone/Rosses Point/Donegal/Carne




You will be hard pressed to find five links of such varying character and quality for the sort of money they ask anywhere in the world.  

AwsHuckster

More and more clubs are preparing their paths to withstand a bit of harsh rain and take cart/trolley traffic better.  I personally prefer the more seashell look if possible or the pebble look, but I know the pebble paths get washed out and need repairing more often.  That said, all these clubs rented out buggies.  I even stooped to renting electric trolleys on a few days.  It really does save the back a bit.  I may get one of those babies, but the thing is, I rarely play that many days on the trot back home.

Ciao
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone (complete)
Post by: Kevin Pallier on June 24, 2008, 07:50:39 PM

My preferences are

Enniscrone

Rosses Point/Donegal
Carne
Strandhill


You will be hard pressed to find five links of such varying character and quality for the sort of money they ask anywhere in the world. 


Sean

I haven't played Carne or Stranhill am interested to hear the green fee rate for the above nowdays ?

When I was there (a few years ago now) I thought Donegal, Sligo and Enniscrone offered the best "value for money" in GB&I. I think it was less than 60 quid to play all three.
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Sean Walsh on June 24, 2008, 10:24:41 PM
Sean,

Two stars out of how many?

I loved the course especially the 9th.  Also the 16th must be one of the most beautiful holes I have ever played.
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Sean_A on June 25, 2008, 02:07:28 AM
Kevin

Carne charges about 65 Euros for the day, but if you pay in advance the price drops to 35 Euros.  Strandhill was 40 Euros for the day.  Enniscrone is 70 Euros for a game I think.  Though one of the great things about golf in Ireland is how laid back the clubs are.  We rolled into Enniscrone the day of an Open Comp.  The lady asked if we wanted to sign up for 25 Euros.  It was a bit of a no brainer so we did it.  She let us stay in our own groups so more or less the club lost 45 Euros X 9.  In the end, our green fees for the 5 days of golf were 225 Euros.  I know I can't touch this sort of price in England/Scotland for 5 days/5 courses quality golf. 

Sean

I use the Rihcelin System (a copy of the Michelin Guide) of max 3 stars and lesser rating of a recommendation.  Even a recommendation means the course is very good.  To get 1 star is excellent.  I am very stingy with the 2 stars - only having given out 7 in total.  I have yet to see a 3 star course.

Ciao 
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Philip Gawith on June 25, 2008, 04:30:30 AM
Thanks for the interesting tour Sean - I definitely need to go along there. Tell me a bit more what you mean by a "peninsula" green?
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Rich Goodale on June 25, 2008, 04:32:09 AM
Sean how well do the wilder Steel greens (e.g. 2, 3, 4, 14, 15, 16, 18) fit in with the more subtle Hackett ones?  In general, in your opinion, which of the two architects made better use of the land which they were given?

Rich

PS--I like the "Rhicelin Scale" phrasing--I think I'll steal it!
PPS--fully agree with your ranking of Enniscrone over Carne

rfg
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Mike Sweeney on June 25, 2008, 06:49:05 AM
 In general, in your opinion, which of the two architects made better use of the land which they were given?


Rich,

Apples and oranges. Steele had the budget/money to go (more) into the dunes. Eddie did not. The new clubhouse is what really made Enniscrone what it is today, because now they can book tours which are profitable, thus they could afford Steele. I am really shocked to see all those buildings around 18. It appears The Celtic Tiger is finally reaching the Northwest, which is good for the locals, but bad for those of us who love remote golf. I hope to get my son there in the next year or two.

Ran and others have been critical of the greens at Carne as too basic. Again it was probably a money issue more than creativity. I never played the all Eddie course at Enniscrone, but I would guess that Eddie would approve the integrated greens if it brought in more money to the town. That is why he built courses and charged such low fees.

Eddie really is a Patron Saint out there.

Sean,

As always, thanks for the pictures.
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Ally Mcintosh on June 25, 2008, 08:37:15 AM
 In general, in your opinion, which of the two architects made better use of the land which they were given?


It appears The Celtic Tiger is finally reaching the Northwest, which is good for the locals, but bad for those of us who love remote golf. I hope to get my son there in the next year or two.



Not if you read today's news, Mike... We are now officially in a recession and the construction industry has gone to the dogs...
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Sean_A on June 25, 2008, 10:00:01 AM
Thanks for the interesting tour Sean - I definitely need to go along there. Tell me a bit more what you mean by a "peninsula" green?

Philip

I spose peninsula green is a bit highfalutin.  All I really menat was the green has a drop off on essentially three sides and is connected on the one side to the dune ridge.  I don't think I have seen anything quite like it before. 

Rich

I don't know anywhere near enough about routing to say if Enniscrone used the land better.  There is so much happening at both properties that it really takes amateurs out of the equation for helping with the routing - even Tom P.  I suspect the budgets were a big part of the reason for the differences such as many grade level greens at Carne compared to the many built up ones Enniscrone.  I do think that Steel did a pretty good job of melding old with new.  There was just enough funk out there to keep it and add the new stuff on without any obvious breaks in style.  However, I would say if there is a bit of problem with styles I would say 9 & 10 stand out as culprits.  I think Steel should have tucked #9 green around the corner to the right where the bunker is.  This would have brought the water more into play for those looking to get an angle at the green.  10, well, just funk up the green a bit and as the French say Bob's yer uncle, job sorted etc etc. 

Mike

That montrosity is a new hotel and I suspect they have developed holiday cottages as well by the look of things.  In this day and age, only the Irish and Americans would let that thing go up in such a lovely spot.

Ciao
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Tom Huckaby on June 25, 2008, 10:09:14 AM
Sean - I guess the paths are fine - heck I saw a lot of those even way back when... crushed rock and the like.  No hassles there.  What has me weeping is the presence of "buggies"; I had heard that this was becoming commonplace, but seeing it at a remote place like Enniscrone, well... I had just hoped that places like this would remain pure.

I have zero problem with taking buggies, hell I do it all the time.  Just here, not there.  Stupid, I know.

BTW the Richelin Scale is fine and dandy, but what if I ask you which is better between two courses given the same rating?

TH
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Rich Goodale on June 25, 2008, 10:09:43 AM
Sean

The club told me that 9 and 10 were original Eddie holes, so blame him, not The Donald. :)

Rich
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Sean_A on June 25, 2008, 10:17:45 AM
Sean

The club told me that 9 and 10 were original Eddie holes, so blame him, not The Donald. :)

Rich

Rich

Yes, thats right.  I was suggesting that Steel may have wanted to alter these holes a bit to have them fit into the final package a bit better. 

AwsHuckabilly

The carts are a bit of a menace, but they are indicative of a tough walk.  I think some folks may be put off a second round at Carne/Enniscrone if it means walking.

I assume you mean between Enniscrone and Carne - which is better.  I think Enniscrone is better (one of the few very best courses I have seen) and I prefer it to Carne, but Carne is still a darn good course and shouldn't be missed. 

Ciao
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Tom Huckaby on June 25, 2008, 10:21:05 AM
Sean:

Oh I get why they want carts, why they are needed, etc.; it just doesn't make me feel any better about the whole thing.

And as for two courses, I didn't have any two particularly in mind; rather, it was just a comment as what I see as the weakness of a Michelin rating system for golf courses.  It just doesn't go far enough.  Mind you, in the end it likely is preferable to the silliness of ranking courses 1-100...  it's just not perfect, that's all; the very real reason being if I knew nothing about Ireland and Scotland and had to prioritize, your star rankings alone would only get me half way there.

But no matter... it's just another thing Rich and I argued about years ago.  Nothing ever really does get settled.

TH
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Sean_A on June 25, 2008, 10:32:45 AM
Sean:

Oh I get why they want carts, why they are needed, etc.; it just doesn't make me feel any better about the whole thing.

And as for two courses, I didn't have any two particularly in mind; rather, it was just a comment as what I see as the weakness of a Michelin rating system for golf courses.  It just doesn't go far enough.  Mind you, in the end it likely is preferable to the silliness of ranking courses 1-100...  it's just not perfect, that's all; the very real reason being if I knew nothing about Ireland and Scotland and had to prioritize, your star rankings alone would only get me half way there.

But no matter... it's just another thing Rich and I argued about years ago.  Nothing ever really does get settled.

TH

Huckster

I like the system because it doesn't decree absolutes other than to say that one group of courses is superior to another - this is tough enough!  Trying to pin point exact places is just too difficult and at that level far too many things come into play to calculate with any accuracy.  For instance, I don't buy for a minute that being treated well and hanging out in lovely clubhouse surrounds doesn't influence opinions or even if you had one beer too many the night before etc etc.  The scale works for me because I can get an idea of what to expect without having to compare and contrast with the next on the list.  I need to compare with what others think is a course in another league (up or down) and decide if its reasonable. 

Ciao
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Tom Huckaby on June 25, 2008, 10:35:10 AM
Sean:

Oh I get why they want carts, why they are needed, etc.; it just doesn't make me feel any better about the whole thing.

And as for two courses, I didn't have any two particularly in mind; rather, it was just a comment as what I see as the weakness of a Michelin rating system for golf courses.  It just doesn't go far enough.  Mind you, in the end it likely is preferable to the silliness of ranking courses 1-100...  it's just not perfect, that's all; the very real reason being if I knew nothing about Ireland and Scotland and had to prioritize, your star rankings alone would only get me half way there.

But no matter... it's just another thing Rich and I argued about years ago.  Nothing ever really does get settled.

TH

Huckster

I like the system because it doesn't decree absolutes other than to say that one group of courses is superior to another - this is tough enough!  Trying to pin point exact places is just too difficult and at that level far too many things come into play to calculate with any accuracy.  For instance, I don't buy for a minute that being treated well and hanging out in lovely clubhouse surrounds doesn't influence opinions or even if you had one beer too many the night before etc etc.  The scale works for me because I can get an idea of what to expect without having to compare and contrast with the next on the list.  I need to compare with what others think is a course in another league (up or down) and decide if its reasonable. 

Ciao

I like the system also.

Just like I say, it doesn't tell me exactly which courses I'll need to go to if I have to prioritize.

And that's just fine... in the end I could just ask you.  So the perfect system as I see it is the Richelin Stars plus Arble commentary.  Just don't get too attached to the stars and get lazy with the commentary, that's all.

TH
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Sean_A on June 25, 2008, 10:40:10 AM
Sean:

Oh I get why they want carts, why they are needed, etc.; it just doesn't make me feel any better about the whole thing.

And as for two courses, I didn't have any two particularly in mind; rather, it was just a comment as what I see as the weakness of a Michelin rating system for golf courses.  It just doesn't go far enough.  Mind you, in the end it likely is preferable to the silliness of ranking courses 1-100...  it's just not perfect, that's all; the very real reason being if I knew nothing about Ireland and Scotland and had to prioritize, your star rankings alone would only get me half way there.

But no matter... it's just another thing Rich and I argued about years ago.  Nothing ever really does get settled.

TH

Huckster

I like the system because it doesn't decree absolutes other than to say that one group of courses is superior to another - this is tough enough!  Trying to pin point exact places is just too difficult and at that level far too many things come into play to calculate with any accuracy.  For instance, I don't buy for a minute that being treated well and hanging out in lovely clubhouse surrounds doesn't influence opinions or even if you had one beer too many the night before etc etc.  The scale works for me because I can get an idea of what to expect without having to compare and contrast with the next on the list.  I need to compare with what others think is a course in another league (up or down) and decide if its reasonable. 

Ciao

I like the system also.

Just like I say, it doesn't tell me exactly which courses I'll need to go to if I have to prioritize.

And that's just fine... in the end I could just ask you.  So the perfect system as I see it is the Richelin Stars plus Arble commentary.  Just don't get too attached to the stars and get lazy with the commentary, that's all.

TH

Huckster

You shouldn't take my word for anything.  I have some wierd likes and dislikes where golf, wine and women are concerned.  I have been told that anybody who could think Princes & Pennard are in the same general class as Portmarnock and Portrush belongs on the looney house.  So you do yer thing baby, you gotta right.

Ciao 
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Tom Huckaby on June 25, 2008, 10:42:47 AM
Sean:

Of course in the end I shall make my own decisions, as well as understand that all advice comes with biases and preferences.  I just figured someone willing to rate courses would also be willing to give advice to weary travellers.

 ;)

Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: mike_malone on June 25, 2008, 10:57:09 AM
 Sean,

   I love 5-9. I just think that both Carne and Enniscrone become weak as one goes into the dunes. By comparison, I think Ballybunion and Portstewart use them more interestingly. I find that the offer to carry the dunes with a benefit from the risk is more enticing than to just avoid the dunes. They become like some form of "eye candy" then.
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Rich Goodale on June 25, 2008, 11:10:15 AM
Agree, Mayday.  Also, it's tough to find great natrual greensites in huge dunes, whereas they abound in the quieter areas such as inhabited by 5-9 at Enniscrone.
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: mike_malone on June 25, 2008, 11:15:47 AM
 Rich,

   The greensite location seems also to be solved better at Portstewart and Ballybunion. This reminds of the problems for the Cashen course as well. It is right next door to the Old course and yet the drives are awkward, the greensites can be too high and the walks between green and tee exhausting.
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Sean_A on June 25, 2008, 11:16:43 AM
Sean,

   I love 5-9. I just think that both Carne and Enniscrone become weak as one goes into the dunes. By comparison, I think Ballybunion and Portstewart use them more interestingly. I find that the offer to carry the dunes with a benefit from the risk is more enticing than to just avoid the dunes. They become like some form of "eye candy" then.

Mayday

I think Enniscrone offers plenty of options to carry dunes if you so wish.  #s, 4, 7, 12, 13, 15 & 18 all give you a chance to go blind.  This is one of the main differences between a modern links and on old one.  Many old links have a few holes which require a shot into the unknown.  There is nothing wrong with that, but often times, the best holes on these courses aren't the blind ones.  They get a lot of press because of blindness.  For instance, I look at Prestwick's famous 17th and can think its a cracker for sure, but Helwick's is without a doubt a better hole.  This is no indictment of blindness, just pointing out that blindness in and of itself does not make a hole.  There has to be another element to give it creedence other than simply being blind.  Hence the reason I think many of the famous blind holes have some funkiness about them.   

Its interesting that Steel ate up loads of the dunes holes with par 5s - I think 4 out 5 par 5s are in the dunes.  Really, only one, the 16th is a real quality hole.  The others are a bit abrupt for my liking though one can rip a drive over the left corner on #4 and end up miles down the fairway to be left with a tricky right to left shot in up the hill.  Of the dune hole I think #s 1, 3, 11, 12, 13, 15 (especially - this is a great, great hole), 16 and 17 work well.   

Ciao
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: mike_malone on June 25, 2008, 11:29:21 AM
 Sean,

   15 and 18 have only modest dunes that provide a slight angle to play. These low dunes allow your mind's eye to visualize the landing area. You don't have 13 pictured and I can't call it to memory.13 is a very short hole that leaves a wedge to the green after a layup; why bother driving into oblivion?
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Sean_A on June 25, 2008, 11:48:20 AM
Sean,

   15 and 18 have only modest dunes that provide a slight angle to play. These low dunes allow your mind's eye to visualize the landing area. You don't have 13 pictured and I can't call it to memory.13 is a very short hole that leaves a wedge to the green after a layup; why bother driving into oblivion?

Mayday

13 is a classic go for it hole especially with the inviting punchbowl like green.  It was easily reachable the day I played, but you have to be confident the shot can be pulled off.  Why does anybody have a go at a hole like this?  For fun!  Hell, I can see tryin to snap one around the corner of 12 just to see if it could be done.  These are the type holes which defy definition and should be built even if they aren't necessarily great holes.  What makes Prestwick's 17th or Lahinch's Dell hole so great?  Nothing, they are just pure fun. 

So far as #15, I was referring to the wee dune which blocks the view of the green.  It was probably built, but what a great idea. 

In general though, I agree with you, the land is a bit rambunctious for golf (much moreso than Lahinch or Ballybunion), but I think there is plenty at Ennsicrone to keep one smiling.  Plus, I can play two games at Enniscrone for the price of a game at Ballybunion and still have enough left over for a fine meal with good wine.  Ballybunion is great for sure (maybe the greatest course of all).  But it is the sort of place to play once or twice and then give it a rest or set up a BACS to pay for the green fee.  Enniscrone is a place that one one let grow on him because they don't charge the earth.   

Ciao
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: mike_malone on June 25, 2008, 01:44:46 PM
 All of this is subjective, but I found Portsalon and Narin/Portnoo to be more the kind of course I would want to play continuously versus Enniscrone and Carne.  The problem for me and Ballybunion is that the other courses in Kerry and south of that aren't as appealing as the ones from Sligo to the north.

   I had a sense that the travel industry infrastructure is well in place from Shannon to the south, but to the north it is not as developed. When I called Portsalon in Feb. for a June tee time they just said "we'll see you then". How refreshing.
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Sean_A on June 25, 2008, 02:04:33 PM
All of this is subjective, but I found Portsalon and Narin/Portnoo to be more the kind of course I would want to play continuously versus Enniscrone and Carne.  The problem for me and Ballybunion is that the other courses in Kerry and south of that aren't as appealing as the ones from Sligo to the north.

   I had a sense that the travel industry infrastructure is well in place from Shannon to the south, but to the north it is not as developed. When I called Portsalon in Feb. for a June tee time they just said "we'll see you then". How refreshing.

Mayday

Of course its all subjective and I dare say a lot more than the golf effects our opinions. 

You know, thats the only general area in GB&I I have yet to see.  Not sure why, just because I spose.  Maybe in 2010.  Next year is N Ireland.  I recall Golspie being very relaxed about a tee time last year.  Its refreshing, but I have been caught out by this attitude when club diaries get altered after being set. 

Ciao
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Bill_McBride on June 25, 2008, 09:43:43 PM
Sean, I have played in Northern Ireland, none yet in the Republic.  So questions..

How are apart are those courses?

What about the craic and the lodging?  Good choices?

Thanks,
Bill
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone (complete)
Post by: Bill Gayne on June 25, 2008, 10:18:47 PM
My preferences are

Enniscrone

Rosses Point/Donegal
Carne
Strandhill


You will be hard pressed to find five links of such varying character and quality for the sort of money they ask anywhere in the world. 

Ciao

I've played these courses and  would concur with this ranking. However if money or value was not included in the equation, I would place the Northwest for a third trip to Ireland. I prefer the courses north of Dublin as far north as Portrush (I have not been to Castlerock, Portstewart, and Ballyliffin) and the Southwest (Lahinch to Old Head). However, one can not argue the value that the Northwest offers relative to other regions of Ireland.
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Sean_A on June 26, 2008, 01:53:06 AM
Sean, I have played in Northern Ireland, none yet in the Republic.  So questions..

How are apart are those courses?

What about the craic and the lodging?  Good choices?

Thanks,
Bill

Bill

We split our lodging between Sligo & Belmullet.  Sligo is a decent enough town.  There are loads of pubs and no shortage of youngsters.  Plenty of choices for hotels with the Glasshouse being the newest right on the river.  Both Strandhill & Rosses Point are minutes out of town. Donegal is about 45 minutes north.

Belmullet is a backwater town.  Nothing much there, but they seem to get through the beer!  There is a new hotel on the edge of town - can't recall its name so no worries with lodging.  Carne is minutes out of town and Enniscrone is about halfway between Sligo & Belmullet.  The drive from Sligo to Belmullet is just under 2 hours.  For those such as yourself who are directionally challenged - give it 2.5 hours. 

Additionally, if you are travelling in a small party (we were 9) b&bs can be a better option, but they tend to be out of town which isn't clever for drink & drive.  We had excellent food the entire trip.  Ranging from Indian to fish to steak.  With wine count on 50 Euros a meal.  With the current poor exchange rates between the pound/dollar and the Euro - its a bit pricey.  Folks are friendly and things are laid back.  Plenty of folks use clubhouses (which often look more like restaurants in this part of the world) for drinking/eating without teeing it up. 

If I go back to the area I may consider staying in Enniscrone for the entire trip.  I didn't take a good look around, but it seems to be expanding for tourism etc from the last time I was there.  The one snag is its probably close to 2 hours drive to Donegal. 

Ciao
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Scott Whitley on June 26, 2008, 05:13:59 PM
  10, well, just funk up the green a bit and as the French say Bob's yer uncle, job sorted etc etc. 


10 was a much better hole before the fairway was inexplicably flattened (it used to be a hogsback).  I believe this was done by the membership before the Steel renovation.

If anyone is interested, here is the new vs old routing:

New   Old
1   16
2    new hole
3    new hole
4    new hole
5   11 (with new green)
6    3
7    4
8    5
9    6
10    7
11    8
12    9
13   10
14   new hole
15   new hole
16   new hole
17   17
18   18

Hackett holes deleted:  1, 2, 12, 13, 14, 15
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Bill_McBride on June 26, 2008, 05:40:08 PM
For those such as yourself who are directionally challenged - give it 2.5 hours. 

Which of the guys who played at Beau Desert ratted me out?  ??? ??? ::)
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Sean_A on June 27, 2008, 11:48:29 AM
For those such as yourself who are directionally challenged - give it 2.5 hours. 

Which of the guys who played at Beau Desert ratted me out?  ??? ??? ::)

Bill

Ah, I think that was you!

Ciao
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Adrian_Stiff on June 27, 2008, 12:25:04 PM
Lovely pics Sean, thanks. I was a tad unimpressed with Carne, but very impressed with Enniscrone.
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Thomas Dai on July 15, 2014, 05:11:32 AM
This is an old thread but I'm bumping it having been prompted by a couple of nice sentences by Sean about Enniscrone in the County Sligo/Rosses Point thread (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,56266.msg1388635.html#new) where he says -

"By quite some margin my favourite (in the area) remains Enniscrone. If the par 5s were more varied (rather than so many running wildly thru dunes) I think Enniscrone would be a great course."

Relatively little is posted herein about Enniscrone but I for one think the Championship course is terrific. Damn tough too and those dunes, say to the left of the 14th, arnt' just big, they're huge! Similar to the first-9 at Portstewart in some respects.

By the way, viewing the photos above the wee pot bunker short of the 17th green isn't there any longer.

A couple of other points -

a) locals told me that the best hole of all the 27-holes on the property is actually the 200 yd par-3 7th on the Scumore 9-hole course, which apparently used to be part of the main Championship course. Didn't play the hole myself. Wish I had. Will do one day.

b) another comment I heard, again from the locals, was that if they had the money they'd like to revise the Championship course such that after the current 11th hole the course would not cut north into the big dunes but instead would circle them by continuing westwards along the bank of the River Moy and then circling around near the end of the spit of links before re-joining the existing course at the 15th tee. An interesting proposition.

c) more from the locals. Bartragh Island, the huge sand island off the mouth of the River Moy, and visible to the west from Enniscrone, is apparently owned by Nick Faldo. Anyone know more about this?

atb
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: Enniscrone
Post by: Jack_Marr on July 15, 2014, 06:29:02 AM
Yes, Faldo bought that Island with a view to developing a links course there. You can walk out to it when the tide is out. It was still in his plans a few years ago, but, needless to say, there are many obstacles. There was also a dispute, I think, when the island was originally sold over who owned it in the first place?
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: ENNISCRONE GC
Post by: Thomas Dai on September 12, 2016, 08:16:47 AM
To pull up this old Enniscone thread seems appropriate in view of the just completed Buda visit.


I for one thoroughly enjoyed playing Enniscrone (again). I was a fan of the course from my previous visit and remain so now. Tough and challenging for sure, especially in the 3-4 club wind we seemed to have, but very satisfying to pull off some of the shots necessary.


Very good course conditioning. It was also very nice that the caterers stayed on later into the evening than normal to accommodate us (in many places wouldn't have done so).


The main change since my previous visit was to the 2nd green. This was prviously very table-top like and although a nice raised spot to take photographs from it was not the nicest of greens from the golfing perspective. Clyde Johnson has changed it now though and it plays far more at grade height and is alll the better for it. Well done Clyde and thanks for coming along and playing with the group.


The 12th and 13th holes remain as quirky as ever with the sometimes driveable by some 13th now having a traffic light with sensors system (was it working?). There's a strong finish from the 14th onwards including the photogenic from the rear 16th and the very hard to hit-and-hold tiny green 17th. Actually there are numerous hard to hit-and-hold greens at Enniscrone and thus numerous up-n-down challenges.


Overall I would suggest that Enniscrone is an underrated course in comparison to some others and is well worth a visit.


Atb



Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: ENNISCRONE GC
Post by: Niall C on September 12, 2016, 08:42:18 AM
Clearly I'm not as enthralled with the closing stretch along the water as some others. To much of a missed opportunity in my opinion with the biggest culprit being what Sean refers to as being the all word 15th. If they perhaps levelled the dune front left to provide a run on option then maybe you could do something with it, but as it stands a pop-up green mostly hidden behind a dune on a good length par 4 doesn't really strike me as good design.


Niall
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: ENNISCRONE GC
Post by: Thomas Dai on September 12, 2016, 11:33:43 AM
The 15th normally plays downwind. It is also SI 1.


For a shorter hitting player or someone with a low ball flight it's most likely to be a 3 shots to get to and hold the green but it's SI 1 so the player gets a shot or maybe more.


For the longer high ball hitter however using a modern spinny ball and spinny grooved irons/wedges, the hole could be as little as a PW or thereabouts for the 2nd shot so a challenging table-top style green with a semi-blind approach could be argued as appropriate.


One aspect that maybe could do with some attention, perhaps some softening, are the severe internal contours - miss the green, which for higher handicappers and short hitters is pretty much a given thing, and an up-n-down is a tough proposition, and not just the pitch, but the putt as well. But then again it's SI 1 and shouldn't a hole that's SI 1 not be tough and challenging?


There are a few other severe greens at Enniscrone....for example, the 3rd, 4th, 11th, 14th, 15th, 16th and 17th of the newer holes but some of the earlier greens, like the 5th, 7th and 8th have quite a bit of internal movement. Even the 12th, which from a distance appears pretty shelf like flat, has a lot of movement.


Atb


Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: ENNISCRONE GC
Post by: Niall C on September 12, 2016, 12:17:19 PM
Dai


First off, you'd be lucky if the normal or prevailing wind blows the one way 60% of the time, so what happens the other 40% of the time when that very small percentage of golfers you refer to eg. long hitting, high balls with loads of spin etc, can't play it the way you envisage ? As you describe it the hole seems to have been primarily designed for one set of circumstances and one set of conditions. Basically there doesn't seem to be the scope for the shorter hitter to stretch their legs by hitting a longer club in there which I think is a great pity.


In other words shorter hitter has to lay up with perhaps a 5 wood but when the wind is behind he gets to lay up with a 5 iron. Yippee.


Not my kind of hole I'm afraid.


Niall
Title: Re: Mayo & Sligo: ENNISCRONE GC
Post by: Thomas Dai on September 12, 2016, 01:49:12 PM
Niall,
Not sure how applicable 60-40 is but whatever the actual split the hole seems pretty much like just about every longer par-4, although at least in this instance it's SI 1.
Maybe it's a somewhat extreme example of the old quandry of better player vrs lessor player design? I like the hole though.....and I hit it short and low!
Atb