Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Bill_McBride on May 16, 2008, 04:32:34 PM

Title: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Bill_McBride on May 16, 2008, 04:32:34 PM
The thread currently on page 1 about green fee tickets in the UK and JakaB's hilarious comment about not getting laid in spite of a bunch of ski lift tickets hanging on a parka (his?) brought the following question to mind:

Has there ever been a really good golf course built at a ski resort where the fairways are ski runs in the winter?

 ??? :o ???

The only one I've ever played was Northstar at Lake Tahoe and OMG, what an ordeal.

Any others where it actually works?
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Mike Benham on May 16, 2008, 04:37:24 PM
Bill -

The golf course and ski runs are not one in the same, unless they are used for cross country skiing.

But you are correct, the non-meadow 9 of Northstar is painful ...

Mike
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Tommy Williamsen on May 16, 2008, 04:46:16 PM
I don't know any courses that use the ski runs.  In fact what is amazing about these golf courses at ski resorts is that many of them are on flatish/rolling terrain.  Breckenridge, Vail courses, and the grandfather of them all, Michigan's Boyne Highlands 
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: John_Conley on May 16, 2008, 04:48:25 PM
The golf course N of Hayward, Wisconsin was a bunch of fun to play even though it had more than its fair share of quirks.  Telemark?
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Cliff Hamm on May 16, 2008, 06:04:57 PM
Galloping Hill a county run course in Union, New Jersey is quite hilly as noted.  The third hole had a rope tow and was used for skiing years ago. Don't know if that remains true.
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Bill_McBride on May 16, 2008, 06:16:35 PM
No fair listing courses AT ski resorts where the fairways are in flat meadows.  I'm talking about "black diamond" ski run fairways!
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Ray Richard on May 16, 2008, 06:21:12 PM
Hanover Country Club in New Hampshire had a big ski jump on the edge of one of the fairways for many years. The ski jump was used by Dartmouth College athletes to train  in the 1950s. Ron Prichard did a big update on the course a few years ago and I think the the ski jump was taken down during this process.
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Tom Yost on May 16, 2008, 06:25:12 PM
I have a vision of someday skiing and golfing in the same day.  I'm thinking like Tahoe in the morning then down to Carson City for 18 holes in the afternoon.  Or vice-versa (i guess the afternoon lift ticket is cheaper...)

Anyone done that?
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Brad Tufts on May 16, 2008, 06:29:35 PM
I think the ski jump was gone well before the redo, as I went to a jr. golf camp there in 1995 and didn't see the ski jump, but you can still clearly see where it was, and it is now commemorated with a plaque on the site, now right of the current 15th hole.

Play well at Prezy's tomorrow Ray (at least I think it's you)...I'm about an hour after you...

-Brad
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Andy Levett on May 16, 2008, 06:48:54 PM
Probably a ne'er the twain shall meet thing.
But Dornoch 8 and 17, Portrush 15 and Pleasington 7 not bad - say solid but very short reds - for skiing, one or two days a year.
Chamonix, which is very good skiing,  has an RTJ course in the valley. Could be as good a combo as it gets.
Zermatt, which is arguably the best skiing, hosts a pasture golf-type cross-country event in the summer, which could be fun. GCA's John Chilver-Stainer is involved.

Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Mike Lacey on May 16, 2008, 06:50:03 PM
Not sure this qualifies, but the recently anointed 4th best course in the Phila area, Pine Hill Golf Club, sits atop the former home of Ski Mountain.  At a whopping 209 feet above MSL, the highest point in South Jersey.  I think it may be a bit of stretch to dub Ski Mountain a resort, though. 

Tom Yost, You could have easily done Sunrise and Silver Creek GC this spring. 
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Matt Waterbury on May 16, 2008, 08:14:46 PM
Hanover Country Club in New Hampshire had a big ski jump on the edge of one of the fairways for many years. The ski jump was used by Dartmouth College athletes to train  in the 1950s. Ron Prichard did a big update on the course a few years ago and I think the the ski jump was taken down during this process.

As a Dartmouth alum, I have very fond memories of the uphill 14th, that plays from the landing area of what used to be the ski jump. HCC is certainly a tricked up track, but one that I love to go back to in order to remember the simpler times...

mjw
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Wade Whitehead on May 16, 2008, 08:35:34 PM
Pine Hill is on former ski slopes, I believe, and it's one of the toughest courses I've ever played.

The Raven is West Virginia is an incredible layout, but is on the backside of Snowshoe Mountain (away from the slopes).  I still had to mention it....it's an absolute must play.

WW
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Will MacEwen on May 16, 2008, 08:59:48 PM
I have a vision of someday skiing and golfing in the same day.  I'm thinking like Tahoe in the morning then down to Carson City for 18 holes in the afternoon.  Or vice-versa (i guess the afternoon lift ticket is cheaper...)

Anyone done that?

Lots of people used to ski the Whistler Glacier in July and golf the same day.
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Bill Gayne on May 16, 2008, 09:57:37 PM
Anybody been to the Talisker Club at Deer Valley? The club has a skiing lodge with great access to the slopes but I'm not sure where the golf course is? I've only been there in the winter with everything covered in snow.
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Jed Peters on May 17, 2008, 09:38:50 AM
I have a vision of someday skiing and golfing in the same day.  I'm thinking like Tahoe in the morning then down to Carson City for 18 holes in the afternoon.  Or vice-versa (i guess the afternoon lift ticket is cheaper...)

Anyone done that?

Do it all the time, then again, we have a house at the base of Kingsbury grade (8 miles from heavenly one way, and 8 miles to genoa lakes the other....)
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Tommy Williamsen on May 17, 2008, 09:49:45 AM
I have a vision of someday skiing and golfing in the same day.  I'm thinking like Tahoe in the morning then down to Carson City for 18 holes in the afternoon.  Or vice-versa (i guess the afternoon lift ticket is cheaper...)

Anyone done that?

I have a house at Bryce resort in the Virginia mountains.  It has a little ski hill and golf course and very often will ski a couple of hours in the morning and play golf and tennis in the afternoon.

In April a buddy and I have skied at Arapaho Basin for a few days and then drive to Denver and play golf.  Packing for the two is interesting.
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: JWL on May 17, 2008, 10:47:22 AM
Not exactly "on the slopes" but part of the development....remember the name Moonlight Basin outside of Bozeman, Montana.   I think many here will like it....and then maybe not.  :-)   Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Craig Sweet on May 17, 2008, 10:55:00 AM
Tom Yost...we ski and golf at the same time all the time....typical closing for Montana Snowbowl is Masters Weekend....typical opening for golf in Missoula is 1st or 2nd week in March.....AND on top of that we have some amazing dry fly fishing in mid to late March on the Bitterroot and Clark Fork rivers!
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Bill_McBride on May 17, 2008, 11:37:17 AM
I have a vision of someday skiing and golfing in the same day.  I'm thinking like Tahoe in the morning then down to Carson City for 18 holes in the afternoon.  Or vice-versa (i guess the afternoon lift ticket is cheaper...)

Anyone done that?

I have a house at Bryce resort in the Virginia mountains.  It has a little ski hill and golf course and very often will ski a couple of hours in the morning and play golf and tennis in the afternoon.

In April a buddy and I have skied at Arapaho Basin for a few days and then drive to Denver and play golf.  Packing for the two is interesting.

Tommy, my first two kids went to James Madison University, just down the Shenadoah from Bryce I think.  What is the name of the resort - oh year, Massanutten (or as the golfers called it, "Mass o' Nuttin").  Every played that?  A handful of good holes and some truly weird, funky ones.  I think there's skiing there too but golf and skiing not concurrent.
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Matt_Ward on May 17, 2008, 01:29:20 PM
JWL:

Be curious to know when Moonlight Basin's 18-hole Nicklaus course will open. I had the pleasure on being on grounds in the summer of '06. Quite impressive site -- if memory serves, the actual layout will exceeed 8,000 yards from the tips.
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Carl Nichols on May 17, 2008, 01:38:35 PM
Hanover Country Club in New Hampshire had a big ski jump on the edge of one of the fairways for many years. The ski jump was used by Dartmouth College athletes to train  in the 1950s. Ron Prichard did a big update on the course a few years ago and I think the the ski jump was taken down during this process.

As a Dartmouth alum, I have very fond memories of the uphill 14th, that plays from the landing area of what used to be the ski jump. HCC is certainly a tricked up track, but one that I love to go back to in order to remember the simpler times...

mjw

They closed the Dartmouth ski jump in the early/mid 90's because of safety concerns and because the top of the ski jump was one of the more renowned places on campus for a late-night rendezvous with a co-ed.  (It also wasn't ever used.)

I played the updated course last year, and they haven't touched that uphill par 3 -- which in my view was a great decision. 
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: John Chilver-Stainer on May 17, 2008, 05:33:30 PM
In the Alps there are a number of classic ski pistes that are used as a sort of cross country golf during the summer for special one-off events.
In Kitzbühl, Austria the famous Hahnenkamm Piste where the annual breathtaking downhill wows the crowds in snowy winter has a special golf event in the summer.
The start list looks much the same as a FIS Start list with names like Franz Klammer, Tony Seiler and Karl Schranz teeing up.

In Wengen, Switzerland a similar event is organised on the famous Lauberhorn piste.
Pirmin Zurbriggen and Bernhard Russi, both legendary down hill racers swop their skis for golf clubs.
I could imagine Lauberhorn multiple winner Bode Miller would turn up to play golf if invited

In Verbier an 18-Hole is terrassed out of the ski pistes. Golfers get a ride to the top of the piste and then golf their way down the hill.

In Zermatt a one-off golf event is organised under the shadow of the Matterhorn. The first tee plays from a cliff edge at 2900m above sea level. A real fun event that is booked out every year.

In Canton Wallis the golf courses in the valleys are often used by the ski stars training on the glaciers during the autumn months. In Spring a number of special golf-ski competitions are organised involving a ski race and a golf competition. These are more fun competitions than any kind of serious sport event.

Golf and Curling is also a popular combination competition - although by far the most popular combination with skis is Skinking - Skiing and Drinking.

Well I suppose Ginking is popular too!!!
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: JWL on May 17, 2008, 07:11:18 PM
Matt

We are hoping for a 2009 opening.
Very difficult site as you may have noticed, but gorgeous setting.
Lots of environmental restrictions.
Not sure what the final length will turn out to be, but we are over 9000 feet elevation, so some prodigious tee shots will be struck, especially on #17, a downhill Par 5 that will be right at 757......and still reachable by the likes of you.   :)
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Allan Long on May 17, 2008, 07:56:56 PM

I have a house at Bryce resort in the Virginia mountains.  It has a little ski hill and golf course and very often will ski a couple of hours in the morning and play golf and tennis in the afternoon.

In April a buddy and I have skied at Arapaho Basin for a few days and then drive to Denver and play golf.  Packing for the two is interesting.

Tommy,

I have been to Bryce a couple of times with relatives who have a place there. I really like the remoteness of the resort. The course, albeit very short, is a fun time no doubt. That is really a special spot of the state.
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Tommy Williamsen on May 18, 2008, 03:57:28 PM

I have a house at Bryce resort in the Virginia mountains.  It has a little ski hill and golf course and very often will ski a couple of hours in the morning and play golf and tennis in the afternoon.

In April a buddy and I have skied at Arapaho Basin for a few days and then drive to Denver and play golf.  Packing for the two is interesting.



Tommy,

I have been to Bryce a couple of times with relatives who have a place there. I really like the remoteness of the resort. The course, albeit very short, is a fun time no doubt. That is really a special spot of the state.


Allan,Bryce is just a little resort with a bunch of retired folks.  My kids learned to ski and sail on the little lake.  It is unpretentious and wants to stay that way.  It is a great family place.  The skiing isn't great and the golf is fun.  The course is a tad short, but I make my own tees and tee it up where I want.  In the winter my Golden will walk along with me.  It is a great place to unwind.

I have not played the Massanuten Course  The skiing there has gotten better int he past ten years.  JMU is a great place and a fine school.  A bunch of kids from my parish have attended and loved the place.  They even have a ski team and train at Bryce.
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Forrest Richardson on May 21, 2008, 11:21:17 PM
Desmond Muirhead was a master designer of ski resorts. He found a lot in common with both golf courses and downhill ski slopes — "Both take a lot of engineering...and routing," he told me.

Which reminds me, our office once got involved in a planning effort for a (now) famous ski resort that was considering a golf course. Our solution: Retrofitted lifts that would haul an EZ-GO cart up the mountain so all the holes played downhill. No joke. No, we did not get the job.
Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Jason Connor on May 22, 2008, 09:32:21 AM
The driving range at The Wisp in Western MD is the kiddy slope (you hit up the hill from the bottom).

But to my knowledge none of the fairways double as slopes.

I hear their building a new Hal Irwin course near there, but I don't know if it's affiliated with The Wisp.




Title: Re: Ski Resort Golf Courses
Post by: Paul Stephenson on May 22, 2008, 01:57:17 PM
There are 2 Stanley Thompson courses that are built in and around ski hills:

Uplands (now 9 holes) has ski areas close to the fairways on a few of the holes but none actually "co-exist."

Chedoke (Beddoe) actually has the ski hill cross the 18th fairway in a couple of places.  If I recall correctly, the t-bar hut is in play.

Aerial of Chedoke is here:

http://old.hamilton.ca/Visiting-Here/golf/Chedoke_Beddoe/images/chedokes_aerial_large.jpg

You can see the top of the ski runs cut out of the trees in the left of the picture.

 As you can tell, it's not a really big ski hill.