Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Sean_A on April 02, 2008, 06:24:03 PM
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It is easy to see why Lord Byron, the sixth Baron Byron, used to take walks from his nearby Newstead Abbey around the Notts property for it is most pleasant rolling country offering a variety of striking colours. There are few golf clubs which can boast of the bountiful beauty and breadth which Notts possesses. The course covers some 330 acres and another 100 or so surrounding acres! The size of the property affords for the making of a brawny course which Notts most certainly is, but the beauty adds an element of charm which must be seen to fully appreciate.
Formed in 1887 when there were fewer than 50 golf clubs in England, Notts moved to Hollinwell and in 1901 engaged Willie Park Jr to design a new course. Park Jr must have been a very busy man that year because he was also working on two other land mark designs, Sunningdale Old Course and lesser known Huntercombe in the Chilterns. Next year the great JH Taylor and T Williamson designed a bunker scheme which enhanced the challenge and elegance of Notts and made other significant changes to the routing. The final piece of the puzzle was the glaring alterations made by the unheralded Tom Williamson in 1913. He designed the opening three holes marooned on the far side of the entrance drive, and the 6th, 13th and 17th. He also altered the hole sequence and direction of many holes. Some may wonder who is this Tom Williamson. It is an unfortunate accident of history that he doesn’t get his due as a tremendous servant to the game. Tom Williamson pulled off the remarkable feat of playing in every Open bar one between 1897 and 1947, serving as professional/greenkeeper/clubmaker at Notts for over 50 years and designing or having a hand in designing at least 50 courses; surely a CV which merits attention.
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1935 Map.
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A brilliant Tom Williamson designed scorecard come course planner circa 1930.
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The opening three holes form a loop back to the house. After a gentle handshake first (which produces an inordinate number of bogeys) the course kicks into high gear on the 2nd. The hole legs sharply left around a hill which forms a holler. The difficult to hit green is neatly nestled in the horseshoe below a rock outcrop known as Robin Hood’s Chair. Many will prefer to drive the ball right in the hope of gaining a view of the green for the approach.
#1 - short par 4 opener.
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2nd - brutal par 4.
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Approach from right side of the fairway.
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The lovely third may present the most engaging shot in the round...if one hits a good drive. The long downhill approach is enticing, dangerous, dramatic and the first of several thrilling shots. I notice a bank of gorse has been removed beyond the right fairwsay bunker. This sort of work has been ongoing for several years.
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Many a golfer may find oneself on the road with no free relief or worse, across the road. Behind the green.
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The sign may as well read to the 4th.
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With a sense that we shall now well and truly strike into the heart of Notts, the bruising 4th awaits. At a formidable 429 yards and gorse hard left of the green this hole isn’t for the weak. The approach short of the left fairway bunker.
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The short 5th has been recently enhanced by newly created natural sandy scrapes near the tee.
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A par five, the rolling straight-away 6th features a large green and a fine example of bunkering creating dead space by not being tucked up to the green. Pearce lugging the spanners after the his second shot.
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The green.
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The course then turns for the 7th which plays trickier than it appears. The fairway slopes left and will often leave players with a blind second which must cover a front left bunker.
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The holywell provides sweet sustenance in preparation to tackle one of the best eleven hole stretches to be found in the British Isles. The two sets of tees on the 8th give the golfer a very different aspect to the drive. Behind the well is the longer version of the hole, but the added length is tempered by a more receptive fairway which leans into the dogleg. The left tee makes the hole dead straight, but the canted short grass shoves drives toward the treed area right of the fairway. The green is dug into the hillside on the left making a missed drive right not as bad as it may seem.
Boonie is the ever generous host.
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From the back tee.
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Upon leaving the green we discovered the Hollinwell Halt named after the Hollinwell & Annesley Station (was near the 1st green) which closed down in the early 1960s. The Halt is a last chance to gather provisions before assulting the hill. Photo by HB Priestly.
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After the short 9th another short par 4 follows. Hitting the fairway is of prime importance hence many will lay-up to the blind driving zone. The complexity of the approach is dependent on where the hole is located on the long green benched into the hillside left.
#9.
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#10 tee shot and approach.
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We now attack the hill head-on for the 11th. The narrow fairway snakes up the hill and is an intimidating prospect off the tee. The gorse up the left was recently removed.
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Approaching the small green is no less daunting.
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Playing over the top of the hill, the 12th is a brute. The drive disappears from sight and anything down the left will likely find trouble. There is a large dip awaiting should a big drive be in the cards. The difficulty of the obscured approach is tempered by a gathering green. Below is just one of several teeing areas.
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#13 is a well known par 3....photo from half way down the hill. More beautiful views have been opened up here with tree removal. The 14th is in the background left and the 15th right.
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In this photo from behind the 13th the reader gets an idea of the elevation change.
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Often times a hole is treated as one which makes up the numbers and holds no particular interest. I have made this mistake for many a year, but now have the highest regard for #14. Not too dissimilar to the 16th, the downhill drive turns right around rough and a corner bunker with the fairway leaking left. A new bunker left has eliminated the bail out option. The tighter one can keep to the turn the more likely the green will be visible for the 2nd. On the other hand, the left side leaves a blind approach for most, but a more open entrance to the plateau green. This is without doubt the sleeper hole at Notts which deserves more accolades. The club has slowly been altering the look of most bunkers to the style seen in this photo.
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The tee shot prior to the work.
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Taken from the rear of the green, the reader is given a sense of the scale and beauty of the property.
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Thinking we are finished with the hill, the course turns about face and gallops up the incline once more. The drive isn’t as demanding as on the 11th, but at one time there was a forceful intimidating desert of sand between the tee and left hand fairway bunker. The approach into the spur of the hill may be the most exacting shot at Notts. Below is the approach from the left.
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Side view of the green.
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There are no prizes for guessing any approach beyond the hole will mean a severely downhill putt comes next. In the States, the green speeds would be so quick as to necessitate flattening the slope of the green. Thank heavens those in GB&I have a more sensible approach to maintenance. On the other hand, I am not too keen on the rough coming down to green level. The gorse seen in this photo has been removed.
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We now leave the heights for the steeply downhill 16th. A reverse dogleg, bunkering covers the corner at the turn to the right. Unless one is very long its best to ease a drive out left and gain good position for the all aerial approach over three fronting bunkers which have recently replaced one long bunker. Below is the drive and a common look at the green from a drive missed right.
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The pound seats. I preferred the intensity of the cross bunker to the three new bunkers.
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Behind #16 the severity of the land is more evident.
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The par 5 penultimate hole features the three best placed bunkers on the course. Protecting the left side of the uphill fairway which leans left and easier access to the green, these pits can end a match in quick order. In the right conditions the green can be had in two. The greens are not generally difficult to negotiate, but this one seems to see less than its fair share of holed putts.
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A fine finisher, the 18th is an appealing downhiller played straight at the house windows.
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Behind the green.
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The stretch of holes between 11 and 16 lifts Notts to a very good course with great variety. The terrain which makes these holes so compelling simply doesn't exist among the class London heathland courses. While there is a small handful of good short holes, perhaps due to its extraordinary length (for England) there are no drivable par 4s. This is a pity, but small beer when we consider the bountiful riches Notts possesses.
It should be no surprise Notts is hoping to host a future Walker Cup. As 2015's Brabazon Trophy demonstrated, the course can certainly provide a stern challenge. More importantly, landing the Walker Cup would be a just reward for the tree/vegetation clearing and poa eliminating efforts made by the club to enhance the true heathland characteristics of Holinwell. Notts comfortably holds its own with most of England's best inland courses. 2024
Ran's Review.
http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/england/notts1/ (http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/england/notts1/)
Ciao
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Thanks Sean, as always.
And as always, a golf course that looks comfortable in its own skin (even though this is the most elevation change I've seen in months on the Sean Arble Mini Tour). Of course, it reminds me of the thread you started quoting Tom D about how good the average English course is, and why. It seems so understated that even its understatement doesn't draw attention to itself. I particularly like the "wee 5th" and the 14th. Ah....it really is a lesson for me, Sean, this group of "tier-two" courses you showcase here....it's a valuable thing you're showcasing here
Thanks again
Peter
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I've only played the Notts once and my recollection of individual holes isn't as clear as it might be but I was very impressed with it, as were the guys I played there with. Is it really a tier 2 course? If it was in Surrey/Berkshire would it have a shout at tier 1 status? It's certainly a very strong course in every respect.
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Mark
It is very difficult to call a course that is always rated top 50 in GB&I a 2nd tier course, but to international visitors and most UK golfers the course isn't terribly well known. I think Notts stands up well with great heathland courses and most "experts" in the UK agree. This does beg the question of why visitors should go out of their way to play Notts if there are a handful of courses near London which can satisfy an urge for heathland golf. The only reason I can think of is the length. For good players this is the added dimension which many of the great heathland courses don't have. For me, this isn't a good enough reason to detour an overseas tour away from London, but living 1.5 hours away I am happy to head up there anytime. That said, an international visitor would be treated to some very fine golf if he were to start in Brum and head up to Yorkshire. An offering of Beau Desert, Notts, Alwoodley & Ganton plus a few other odds n sods is a match for any London quartet.
Ciao
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Thanks for posting your photos Sean. Notts is a great course with some very good holes. I think 16 is a great example of a good short hole as it makes you think both off the tee and with your approach, which generally you don't want to play from too near the green.
Just seen your latest post re 8a & 9a. Generally these are to be avoided as they are nowhere near the quality of the other 18. They are used primarily to allow members etc to play just 9 holes and finish near the clubhouse.
I've been fortunate to be invited to a corporate event at Notts for the last few years. Before then I didn't know much about it as it seems to fly under the radar, Woodhall Spa generally being the only Midlands course to get much publicity (other than the dreadful Belfry :(). Our Club Captain recently got a flyer through the post from Notts inviting him to play at a discounted rate. When I told him that was an offer not to be missed he admitted he'd never heard of it! Despite my promptings and offer to take him down there as part of his fourball he still hasn't done anything about it >:( Rest assured if I get a similar invite in the next couple of years I'll be taking the offer up and looking on here for people who appreciate a good golf course to make up the fourball!
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Thanks for posting your photos Sean. Notts is a great course with some very good holes. I think 16 is a great example of a good short hole as it makes you think both off the tee and with your approach, which generally you don't want to play from too near the green.
Just seen your latest post re 8a & 9a. Generally these are to be avoided as they are nowhere near the quality of the other 18. They are used primarily to allow members etc to play just 9 holes and finish near the clubhouse.
I've been fortunate to be invited to a corporate event at Notts for the last few years. Before then I didn't know much about it as it seems to fly under the radar, Woodhall Spa generally being the only Midlands course to get much publicity (other than the dreadful Belfry :(). Our Club Captain recently got a flyer through the post from Notts inviting him to play at a discounted rate. When I told him that was an offer not to be missed he admitted he'd never heard of it! Despite my promptings and offer to take him down there as part of his fourball he still hasn't done anything about it >:( Rest assured if I get a similar invite in the next couple of years I'll be taking the offer up and looking on here for people who appreciate a good golf course to make up the fourball!
Andrew
The new holes weren't open yet so we didn't get to have a decent look. I think you are right in that they are filler holes for old folks and societies to get back to the clubhouse. I know we are always tempting each other with games, but we should try and meet at Notts when the course is keen. I think its more or less right in the middle between us.
Ciao
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Sean
Thanks for the photos...I feel that after a fairly benign begining it really bares it's teeth on the B9. I saw it in summer and boy do those fairway contours exentuate run off into the greenside bunkers on weak approach shots.
Lovely ambience at Notts too - dont you think ?
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Sean,
thanks for sharing the excellent photos. Notts has been doing a lot of work on the course in the last few years restoring it to its original form. Looks like they are well on the way to doing this.
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Sean, thankyou for the memories. I played the English Amateur Championship there back in the mid '90's. It is a great golf course and as good as your pictures are - they cannot do this place justice.
Some pictures of this place in mid Summer when the rough is stood tall and there are leaves on the trees would surely draw more response from the GCAers.
Where next Sean? Go play Linderick, Alwoodley or Moortown and send us some more photos. Please.
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Sean, thankyou for the memories. I played the English Amateur Championship there back in the mid '90's. It is a great golf course and as good as your pictures are - they cannot do this place justice.
Some pictures of this place in mid Summer when the rough is stood tall and there are leaves on the trees would surely draw more response from the GCAers.
Where next Sean? Go play Linderick, Alwoodley or Moortown and send us some more photos. Please.
Dean
Cheers. I am afraid the Winter Tour of England with a bit of Wales chucked in is over. Spring is upon us and with that comes touristas and with that comes inflated green fees. I don't think I have another good English course outside of my club booked until a few comps. at Blackwell & Hillside in June. Now is the time to focus on Philly. We are gonna be a 2 man wrecking crew hoping to leave PA with a sleeve of balls between us.
Ciao
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That's a shame! I hear the English Stokeplay is at Moortown next year. Have you played it in the past few years? If so how is it these days?
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That's a shame! I hear the English Stokeplay is at Moortown next year. Have you played it in the past few years? If so how is it these days?
Dean
Are you mad? That sort of stuff is for proper flat belly golfers. I am not proper or a flat belly.
Kevin
You are right, there is quite a nice feeling about the club. Its down to earth, but still quite olde worlde.
Ciao
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I wasn't suggesting you play in the tournament!!! Merely asking if you'd played Moortown in recent years. It used to be one of my favourite courses around and I wondered if they'd made changes to accomodate the new 'technology' or whether it had just succumbed to the 'bomb and gauge' game of the new generation. :-\
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Sean,
Thanks for that. Notts sure looks like a GB&I hidden gem.
Ken
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Thanks for posting your photos Sean. Notts is a great course with some very good holes. I think 16 is a great example of a good short hole as it makes you think both off the tee and with your approach, which generally you don't want to play from too near the green.
Just seen your latest post re 8a & 9a. Generally these are to be avoided as they are nowhere near the quality of the other 18. They are used primarily to allow members etc to play just 9 holes and finish near the clubhouse.
I've been fortunate to be invited to a corporate event at Notts for the last few years. Before then I didn't know much about it as it seems to fly under the radar, Woodhall Spa generally being the only Midlands course to get much publicity (other than the dreadful Belfry :(). Our Club Captain recently got a flyer through the post from Notts inviting him to play at a discounted rate. When I told him that was an offer not to be missed he admitted he'd never heard of it! Despite my promptings and offer to take him down there as part of his fourball he still hasn't done anything about it >:( Rest assured if I get a similar invite in the next couple of years I'll be taking the offer up and looking on here for people who appreciate a good golf course to make up the fourball!
Andrew
The new holes weren't open yet so we didn't get to have a decent look. I think you are right in that they are filler holes for old folks and societies to get back to the clubhouse. I know we are always tempting each other with games, but we should try and meet at Notts when the course is keen. I think its more or less right in the middle between us.
Ciao
Sean
Agreed we really must move on from saying let's have a game sometime and actually meet up! I'd be happy to have a game at Notts once we get to the good British summer.
I'd also like to see Beau Desert as well. Are they too far apart to do 36 in one day? If so it would probably need to be two trips for me.
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Sean, Andrew,
If you're planning a trip to Notts this Summer and wouldn't mind an interloper then let me know, it's too long since I played there.
Mark
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Thanks Sean. Haven't seen this course in ages. The open views are super.
The bunkers look to have been redone, they look just like the new ones at Coombe Hill, Wentworth... There seems to be a generic, curvy, smooth bunker being installed on our heath courses.
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Sean, Andrew,
If you're planning a trip to Notts this Summer and wouldn't mind an interloper then let me know, it's too long since I played there.
Mark
Mark
Noted & logged for when we get round to discussing dates ;D
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Thanks Sean. Haven't seen this course in ages. The open views are super.
The bunkers look to have been redone, they look just like the new ones at Coombe Hill, Wentworth... There seems to be a generic, curvy, smooth bunker being installed on our heath courses.
Paul
Many of the bunkers have been redone. You are right, but I am not convinced they are so different from the old ones in shape. I think its more a matter of what surrounds the bunkers that is different. Heather and bit of rough really helps to tie the bunkering into the general surrounds of a heathland course. When you see bunkers naked on a heathland course they often tend to look out of place.
Mark & Andrew
I will toss dates at ya further down the road. If you are keen to play Beau then I can give in! Truth be told, I would rather play Beau as I am going to miss a few of my annual visits there this year.
Ciao
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Take a look at the updated Notts tour. There can be few more lovely places to play on a fine fall day.
Ciao
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Sean,
Excellent update to the thread and I'm glad you enjoyed yesterdays round!
A little extra info on the original Willie Park layout. I've managed to piece together the approximate original routing by Park, though there is still quite a bit of archaeological investigation to be done.
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/2009%2004%20Notts/NottsPlanPre1912lowres.jpg)
The key elements that can be seen are the old back tees for the 18th which played as a 555yard par 5, they are off to the right of the current 17th, as well as the old tee for the 15th (now essentially the 16th) which can be seen if you get to the 16th tee and look back over the 15th green to a tee pad perched on the hillside. There are also several other old bunkers out there, but one other key feature is a large mound off to the left of the current 9th green. I'd always thought it was an old obstacle to that green when it used to play as the 10th coming down from the hills, but I recently played with an old member who told me it was used as a back tee for the current 10th, the last time a professional event was held at the course.
Cheers,
James
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Take a look at the updated Notts tour. There can be few more lovely places to play on a fine fall day.
Not sure what the updates are, but the tour is up to your usual standard.
I was fortunate to play Notts back in April, and enjoyed it a lot. The club deserves far more attention than it generally gets.
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Take a look at the updated Notts tour. There can be few more lovely places to play on a fine fall day.
Not sure what the updates are, but the tour is up to your usual standard.
I was fortunate to play Notts back in April, and enjoyed it a lot. The club deserves far more attention than it generally gets.
Tucky
We don't want Notts getting too high on themselves or the green fee might just rocket.
Boony
Thanks for the map.
Ciao
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James,
I was always under the impression that the course originally/at some point in time had a hole or two in the area which has fairly recently been cleared inbetween the current 10, 11, 12 and 13 loop of holes. I had assumed that it was the lose of these holes because they were too hilly and most likely too short that was the reason for the Williamson holes being built across the road?
Do you know whether there is any truth to this or have I made it up or heard it from someone who has made it up?!
Sean,
You made mention of the length of the course and at 7200 off the back pots I think it scares some people. Have you ever found the course to feel that length?
Personally I have always felt it played shorter than the scorecard card suggests. I guess this is probably due to the combination of the firm turf and the routing avoiding uphill slogs and giving you what seems like lots of downhill tee shots and approaches.
Cheers
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Thomas
I have never played Notts in summer conditions. Our last outing was from the white tees at 6900 yards, but I think we were playing the course a bit less than that. Of the 15 par 4s & 5s - a wood was required on half of them for the second. On two other par 4s a 5 & 6 were required for the approach. To me that seems a bit long, but not as long as I would normally think a 6900 yard course would play - so maybe you are right. In any case, there were some holes where I thought playing from the next forward set of tees would offer a more interesting challenge. So ideally, in winter conditions, maybe a 6500-6600 yard course would be ideal if someone wanted a good challenge, but not overly weighted toward distance providing that challenge.
Ciao
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Sean,
The ball certainly wasn't rolling too far when we played, so it did feel very long that day. But as you rightly pointed out, many of the white tees were pushed forward to the yellows or thereabouts.
You will have to come back next summer to experience the firm and fast conditions! With the right wind conditions, I played several rounds last year were I only hit 4 or 5 drivers, as it was so dry there was so much run on the ball. Bizarrely, I didn't play much from the blues in those conditions, but even in the spring or autumn, the back tees don't feel like it plays as long as the yardage, as there will still be some holes were a fairway wood might be better off the tee, such as 1, 7, 8, 11 and 16 perhaps?
A lot of the extra yardage from the back tees comes on only a few holes such as 2, 3, 6, 10, 12 and 13. Of those, 13 is downhill, so even at almost 250yards, unless its into the wind, its not the monster it might appear on the card! I actually quite like this setup, rather than the steady spread of tees at 20 yard intervals say on each hole?
Cheers,
James
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James, Sean,
There wasn't a lot of run, that's for sure but it didn't feel over-long and, without playing terribly well I reckon I played pretty much to handicap. I don't know what that tells us about the course, though but I'd certainly be happy playing off the whites again.
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See the updated Notts tour - simply magnificent.
Ciao
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Without question #s 10-16 lift Notts from the ranks of good courses to that of very good courses, possible even great. The terrain which makes these holes so compelling simply does not exist among the class London heathland courses.
I agree completely. For me that stretch of holes plus the wonderful variety of color and textures on display in some of the "interior views" you mentioned earlier definitely putt Notts in the "great" category. A course that can offer as much fun as I had on a day I was not playing well and can also be set up as a brutally long monster for elite players is hard to find. And I just love the terrain and the Nottinghamshire setting.
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Here is a dozen photos from Saturday. Apologies to my friends if they don't like their pics. But they do show the great playing conditions at Notts - it was a great day.
A lovely green site - 17th green
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/notts/17green_zpsa9b0b6cd.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/JamesBennett/media/notts/17green_zpsa9b0b6cd.jpg.html)
The 18th hole - classic Notts!
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/notts/18hole_zps85a04714.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/JamesBennett/media/notts/18hole_zps85a04714.jpg.html)
The 5th tee - the vegetation is typical of the clumps around notts - never in play.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/notts/5tee-veg_zps38476572.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/JamesBennett/media/notts/5tee-veg_zps38476572.jpg.html)
The 6th - fairway bunkers can be more than a half-shot penalty, even for Sean.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/notts/Sean1_zpsddc3eaf1.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/JamesBennett/media/notts/Sean1_zpsddc3eaf1.jpg.html)
A couple of tee shots on 11 - James and Neil showing their style.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/notts/James1_zpsc42ba486.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/JamesBennett/media/notts/James1_zpsc42ba486.jpg.html)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/notts/Neil3_zps0f4f1983.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/JamesBennett/media/notts/Neil3_zps0f4f1983.jpg.html)
The down-hill 13th - 241 yards into the wind - an easy hole if you can borrow the right club.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/notts/Group1_zps5d487ffd.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/JamesBennett/media/notts/Group1_zps5d487ffd.jpg.html)
But, if you hit the wrong club poorly....
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/notts/Neil1_zps7374f472.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/JamesBennett/media/notts/Neil1_zps7374f472.jpg.html)
And the result is ......
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/notts/Neil2_zps888fc168.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/JamesBennett/media/notts/Neil2_zps888fc168.jpg.html)
Sean firing one a bit left on 15. A great recovery onto the green, and a putt holed from the back for an unbelievable birdie. Not good enough though - Neil produced a first-class birdie with a shot to win the hole.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/notts/Sean2_zpsad9c30c2.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/JamesBennett/media/notts/Sean2_zpsad9c30c2.jpg.html)
And, on 18, the flagpole flowerbed is GUR - play prohibited. Not a good place to play your third from. 7-woods go a lot further than 4-irons. I understand now why cars wait for people to play 3 and 18!
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/notts/sean3_zps44f45a0b.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/JamesBennett/media/notts/sean3_zps44f45a0b.jpg.html)
By the way, as with all classic GCA games - the outcome wasthat the foreigners and the english tied the match. For a last post - the influence of those canny Scots is everywhere. Look at the half-way house price list. The prices have been increased, authorised by ..... UNBELIEVABLE! FBD is omnipotent.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/JamesBennett/notts/Hut_zps8b6753da.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/JamesBennett/media/notts/Hut_zps8b6753da.jpg.html)
James B
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See the updated Notts tour - simply magnificent.
Ciao
I'm going to say that you have revised your views on the course in a positive sense? How has your view changed since last time you played. Need to get back there and tap up sir Boon!
BMS
Yes, but I still have reservations about Notts because its length eliminates the opportunity for drivable par 4s and short 3s - indeed I like to see five 3s and Notts has only three. On the other hand, its a beautiful site and the terrain around the hill is used exceedingly well. That back nine is as good as it gets. We played from the white tees - about 6900 yards - and the driving part of the game is seriously tested. Luckily, some of the best holes on the course are the long 4s. I think of 2, 4, 12, 15 & 18; all are good and quite different - that strikes me as very unusual for banger 4s. I just think the 6900 tees should be avoided if the course isn't keen. Yesterday was the first time I played Notts when the ball was rolling. It must also be said that junk hasn't had time to grow and I suspect in June the test of driving is even more difficult. Yesterday Notts was quite forgiving. I hit many bad shots and didn't lose a ball.
Ciao
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Not one of the four lost a ball, which given some of the shots is quite amazing - credit to Notts!
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Who is the fourth in your pics, James. I recognise Jimmy B and the Gringo.
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One other point to make that I discussed off-line with Scott - the course has some similarity in land to that at NSW, but (obviously) without the sea views. The turbo kick points on the down hill par 5's, the shape of the hillsides, the use of holes that play up a valley, and others that treverse the valleys, the climbs and descents.
I would be interested in others who have seen both courses as to their views.
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Great minds, James. As you were posting the above, I was writing this: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55625.0.html
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Sean,
Belated thanks for the updated tour and thanks also to the other James B for his pictures and company on the day.
I'm glad you finally got to see the course when it is playing firm and fast which certainly helps from the white tees. The whites are used by most members for general play so one does get used to the length of the course, and in winter the whites are often quite a way forwards, but when its not firm and fast the course can be a brute. However in the summer, it possible to have to only play a driver 6 or 7 times due to the run on the ball, which is saying something for a course just shy of 7,000 yards?
Scott, James,
Afraid I cant add to the comparison with NSW as I've never played it.
Scott,
That's Neil White with us. He joined GCA since you left these parts and is a thoroughly decent chap as well a being on this years golf course architecture course!
Cheers,
James
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James,
Every time I see photos of Notts or even better play there I think it is better and better even after playing it so many times, vastly underated by most of the golfing world. It looks like the course is in really good shape given the winter and weather we've had too.
Have more trees been cleared to the right of the 13th tee, it looks like the view has been opened up more than I remember it from my last visit? Or was that all the done with the other clearance work between 9,10,11 & 12 a few years back and I've just forgotten?!
Are the club still hoping to attract the Walker Cup or have the logistical problems scuppered the plans? I assume they had bid for the 2019 event that Hoylake has been given?
Cheers
Tom
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Tom,
Those trees on the right of 13 were cleared out long ago as you mention. There has though been quite a bit of clearing elsewhere, which I believe is at the direction of Gordon Irvine to get more air circulation around the greens. There is a presentation to the members in a few weeks time and I can probably report back after that? A lot of trees and gorse have come out from the bank on the left of the 10th green and the gorse has all come out of the bank on the left of 15.
The R&A did seem very impressed with the course and the club after the Boys Championship last year! Whether or not the club is still keen to host a Walker Cup, I can't comment officially, but I do still hear reference to it possibly happening? I do though think there may be a few logistical problems, mainly related to the entrance driveway being so close to the 3rd and 18th greens, but as I always say regarding Open venues and logistics, if the R&A want something it will happen?
We do though have the Brabazon Trophy in 2015.
Let me know next time you are this way and we can meet up for a game?
Cheers,
James
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James,
I will do and same goes to you if your down south and fancy stopping by Liphook let me know.
Cheers
Tom
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Had the good fortune to play Notts for the first time yesterday.
In terms of the Midlands and to this uneducated eye it ranks as #1 or thereabouts with Beau.
Played off the white, in wind/rain with the rough up, quite a test from the tee. The back nine is a wonderful series of holes for sure.
Only downside was the lack of any food in the evening when we finished up.
For me the Midlands is pretty barren in terms of golf courses, but Notts is well worth a visit; wont be regretted.
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The Winter Tour stopped in at Notts again earlier this week. Notts seems to be slowly growing on me because it does tick a lot of boxes: fine long 4s, fine drive short iron 4s, good mix of 5s with the 3rd having one of the great second shots in the Midlands, superb variety and some well placed and attractive bunkers. See the updated Tour on page 1.
Previous stops on the Tour:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48115.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48115.0.html) Mosely NR
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47211.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47211.0.html) Worplesdon R
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60107.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60107.0.html) Walton Heath New 1*
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59831.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59831.0.html) Cumberwell Park Orange 1*
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30926.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30926.0.html) Kington 1*
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.0.html) Cleeve Cloud R
Future Scheduled Stops: Delamere Forest, Formby Ladies, Formby & Little Aston
3* Don’t Miss For Any Reason
2* Plan A Trip Around This Course
1* Worth An Overnight Detour
R Worth A Daytrip
r A Good Fall Back On Course If Nearby
NR Not Recommended
Ciao
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Sean - you are a man who knows what he likes, and who knows that he knows. And, while it profits such a man little to play a *2 but to pay too much, will you really throw away the chance (and at a bargain price) simply for lack of a drivable 4 and too few 3s?? The former - for me - is the singularly most over rated type of golf hole to be found, and the latter are a dime a dozen, and most of them banal. Do reconsider upgrading one of my favourites....
Peter
Very good scale, by the way - very clear utility. And yes, a big jump from *1 to *2.
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Pietro
Yes, the Recommendation Scale is designed around the course, experience and cost of the game. 1* is a very good rating as it was meant to be ala Michelin.
I know you had an epiphany concerning 3s and very short 4s. Our difference in opinion could be that I am used to getting good 3s etc and you are not? From my perspective these type holes are the only way to design in maximum variety...the variety in length that big courses ultimately fail to provide. That said, Notts has for a very long time been a big course which can host the flat bellies...this is quite unusual for classic inland English courses....even so I suspect the Muirfield menu of serious rough would be employed to keep these guys in check. I haven't seen Notts in proper summer conditions so I don't know what the tradeoff is between rough and extra roll (Notts is long!)...the fairways though are not wide on many holes...there could be a lot of laying up for the thinking golfer thus negating the extra roll factor.
At the end of the day, variety is probably my most important factor when evaluating courses. Notts has that where the terrain is concerned, but not so much in length of holes...and I love a large and good set of 3s and few very shortie 4s to add spice to a round. The 4s are real strength of Notts and it isn't a stretch to say this could be the best set in England. However, with a lot of banger golf on the card, the 3s take on added role of importance. Despite the charming 13th, as a set, Notts' 3s do not stand out.
Ciao
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Peter,
I've found that lately you have a knack for posting thoughts with which I find myself in immediate and severe agreement. This is not one of them. If you think extra Par 3's, short Par 4's and the like are undesirable or overrated then I'm afraid I fail to miss your point. In fact I've recently moved from my old club of 10 years to one with five Par 3 holes (including one ridiculously long uphill one) and one brutally difficult Par 4 of around 300 yards effective playing length. And my most recent "new favorite" course from last year's UK golf holiday was Harlech which is virtually overrun with Par 3's of all types including long ones, blind ones, a Par 3 for the 18th hole, you name it.
Sean,
My one round at Notts was on a warm day in September, what we'd call "Indian Summer" conditions back home. And the course was quite keen, still with summertime rough but very dry and firm turf running keenly and the greens had balls bounding this way and that. As you know, Notts from the medal tees is "too long" for my game but fortunately I was playing with James Boon as a partner in a better-ball deal so I could just do my best to keep up and I had some good holes on my own ball I must say.
My summary of that one round would be to say in "proper summer conditions" Notts does in fact play to a manageable length despite what the card yardages might indicate. And at least that particular summer I found there to be enough width that the extra run on the ball was generally useful, unlike some courses which are so narrow and rough-choked that keen conditions just cause the ball to run into trouble.
That said, there were many areas where it wasn't just "rough" but the gnarly, long, irregular clumpy stuff that eats balls and, if you do luck out and find it, are borderline un-hackable anyway. My memory is that most of the gnarled clumpy rough was encountered by shots that *flew* well off line. Balls that were struck in the right general direction but slightly errant tended to run into more manageable lies in the shorter, trimmed rough. As you say, perhaps when set up for flatbelly tournaments they don't have that shorter type of rough in which case it's just a brutal tournament course. I didn't see it my day there in September, 2012 during an Invitation Day outing.
P.S. But then again, my round at Notts was immediately after three days at Ganton which I found gloriously wide and playable w.r.t. rough. Only the bunkers at Ganton were constant obstacles to my tee game. Perhaps after six rounds dealing with Ganton's bunkering I was simply glad to be risking rough rather than deep sand pits on my tee shots!
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The last time I played Notts was with Sean, Sheehy and James Boon and was a Winter round (I want to say February but it might have been Marh). The ground was a bit soft and we played (to Sean's disapproval) a long set of tees (maybe Blues?) I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised that it didn't (to me at least) feel at all like a long slog even from those tees and in those conditions. I wonder if it is just one of those courses that doesn't feel as long as it is, whilst others feel longer than they are? Alternatively, maybe it was just the esteemed company that made it feel that way......
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Sean,
Thanks for the review. Great stuff as always. Course looks excellent. have to agree on the rough being left so long down to the green level on that what could be punchbowl like green. It would make it fun to be able to use the banks with consistency coming in from off angles. Though it would make it much easier perhaps.
I'm not sure about the watering hole Boony suckered you guys into drinking out of after he washed off his spikes....
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Sean,
Thanks for the review. Great stuff as always. Course looks excellent. have to agree on the rough being left so long down to the green level on that what could be punchbowl like green. It would make it fun to be able to use the banks with consistency coming in from off angles. Though it would make it much easier perhaps.
I'm not sure about the watering hole Boony suckered you guys into drinking out of after he washed off his spikes....
Unfortunately I think cutting the grass around the 15th green any shorter would be nearly impossible as it is so steep.
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Sean,
Thanks for the review. Great stuff as always. Course looks excellent. have to agree on the rough being left so long down to the green level on that what could be punchbowl like green. It would make it fun to be able to use the banks with consistency coming in from off angles. Though it would make it much easier perhaps.
I'm not sure about the watering hole Boony suckered you guys into drinking out of after he washed off his spikes....
Unfortunately I think cutting the grass around the 15th green any shorter would be nearly impossible as it is so steep.
Tom
I too thought this and water run-off down to the green might be an issue. But I was thinking more of shorter grass maybe a yard or so up the slopes from the green.
Ciao
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Sean,
Nice revised write up. Glad Hollinwell is slowly growing on you!
I tend to agree with you that the grass around 15 might be better a bit shorter but its very steep and wouldnt be easy to maintain.
Regarding length, members can play from any tees they want to, with low single figures often going off the blues, most the whites and older guys the yellows (still 6,600). Despite the numbers, as Mark P says, it doesnt seem to feel that long apart from some of the long 4s. In the summer when its playing firm and fast, from the white tees at 6,900 I have on occasion only hit 6 or 7 drivers and as I'm far from the longest hitter that hopefully gives an indication of how it can run.
Having said that, I wouldnt mind seeing the 9th played from a more forward tee through the summer giving a shorter par 3, and perhaps building a bit of a larger tee around the ladies tee on 16 which might tempt a few average players to try and bounce one up onto the green?
Sean, the course should be in good condition come August for Buda when I suspect the rough will have been trimmed a little, but you are welcome to come earlier in the year around the Brabazon Trophy to see what its like then as well if you like? ;)
Cheers,
James
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I'm guessing for the Brabazon it is going to be a case of "where is the fairway?" on the 18th tee? I'm all for width but part of me loves the look of the long fescue in its full glory scaring the living daylights out of the golfers, and the view from 18 when the English Am was on there a few years ago summed it up perfectly.
It would be nice to see a few more guys tempted to have a cut at 16 with a forward tee. I'd also like to have a go from the old Willie Park tee right of 15th for abit of variety.
Would the 5th not work better as a shorter par 3 than the 9th? It would leave a longer green to tee walk, but to me the green would work better for a shorter shot and provide abit more variety between the long 4th & 6th holes than the 9th which is between two shortish fours in 8 & 10.
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I'm not convinced 16 at Notts is a great candidate for turning into a drivable par four. Partly, I love the tee shot as it is - it's a really nice drive and pitch hole - and secondly, I don't think too many people would want to hit driver given the fronting bunker. I suppose you could cut the grass on the high side and give people a chance to run it in from there, but otherwise you'd surely lay up unless the tee went a mile forward?
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Adam
I agree with you. The rough right and how the fairway moves around it is one of the keys to the hole because it doesn't take a huge drive to go thru the fairway left...which makes guys want to cheat a bit up the right and challenge the bunker. Plus, only big hitters could reach that green because it would be all carry unless the front bunker was altered. On the other hand, it would be next to impossible to stay below the hole when driving the green...and in keen conditions there would be a ton of disappointing 3 putts.
Boony
The daily tees was plenty of golf last weekend...provided for a load of hybrid play.
Ciao
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Adam,
You are probably right, but risky as it might be the very top / longest players can go for the green from the current tees. During the Boys Championship a couple of years ago, some players went for it from the back tee. When they moved the tee forwards to the ladies tee for the quarter finals I think pretty much all of them went for it but struggled as they weren't hitting drives full on.
Having the yellow, white and blue all within 20 yards or so of each other doesn't provide much variety. A larger tee down by the ladies, maybe even if only for the yellow tees, would mean the occasional venture down there for longer hitters may tempt people to go for it? Still a great pitch in for anyone going down the middle, but interesting risk and reward potential for anyone brave (stupid) enough to try ;D Might need the very right side of the fronting bunker filling in to give more chance of running a shot in, but anything pulled or short would end up in the bunker.
To be honest things are just fine, but its an interesting hypothetical debate...
Cheers,
James
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The course really looks good JB; i must say it has vaulted into a top five or ten I want to see. So disappointed that Buda fell just a bit too early for a Walker Cup walkaround; but maybe I can squeeze a drive over the Midlands with a mate.
Am I picking up mixed references to short par fours? A drivable two shotter and a drive and pitch version? I am curious to hear the distinction between these two and why if Notts has the latter this disqualifies it for variety?
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Ward,
If I can get my diary to work with yours, you are more than welcome!
The 16th isn't really a drive able par 4. The very best / longest might give it a go, but it's out of the question for everybody else. This is because rather than having a set of tees that make the hole gradually shorter, they are all very close together at the top of a hill, which means the 350odd yards drive and pitch are almost the same for everyone, hence the 300yard cutting of the corner is achievable by the best but madness for the rest.
Cheers,
James
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James
16 is quite a severe dogleg isn't it? Not 90 degrees but at least 45 degrees. IIRC. Position the tee-shot then play a second. A lesser version of CPC 8.
James B
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I think Buda went very well and Boony is to be commended on his efforts. It was fine to see Notts in the summer with some roll on the ball to mitigate the length of the course :D My opinion of the course has gone up...it has only taken 15 years! I really enjoyed taking a good long look around these past few days. Notts really is a marvelous property! See the updated tour.
Ciao
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This year's Buda was fantastic! Kudos to James for organizing such a fine event. The courses were spectacular... especially Notts.
Thanks, Sean, for updating the photo tour. My wife is pleased that my Royal Cinque Ports hose will be documented for posterity!
Very fine!
Mike
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I was going to say how sad I was to miss this year's Buda, but I'm not so sure now. It's hard to swing a golf club when you're rolling around on the grass pmsl!
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/NOTTS/DSC03846_zpsvmi00qck.jpg)
Wow! Just gorgeous, Beau!
Love,
F.
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:o :o
Reminds me of Chappers' blazer!
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Sean,
Thanks for the updated tour! As you include a variety of photos from different visits at different times of the year, the changes in texture and colour really do highlight Hollinwell as a magnificent setting for golf (though I'm not sure Whitty's socks add much 8) )
You mention the 14th deserving more accolades. I've a copy of an old cigarette card that includes the 14th at Notts as part o the inland perfect course, with words by Darwin...
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/Misc/IMG_7441.jpg) (http://s306.photobucket.com/user/jamesboon53/media/Misc/IMG_7441.jpg.html) [size=78%](http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/jamesboon53/Misc/IMG_7442.jpg) (http://s306.photobucket.com/user/jamesboon53/media/Misc/IMG_7442.jpg.html)[/size]
Cheers,
James
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Following, gingerly, in the footsteps of BUDA, one of my oldest golfing chums and I just had a super East Midlands mini-break to Luffenham, Hollinwell and Coxmoor. On the drive up from Cambridge we played 18 at Luffenham (which I knew quite well) as a warm-up, and then 36 at Hollinwell and Coxmoor (both new to me), in gorgeous early autumn conditions (unlike the forecast semi-hurricane: had we cancelled in response to the 'severe weather warning' we would have been more than a tad irritated...). The whole venture worked at £42 per round, which for golf of this calibre was a very good deal indeed. I won't add to the extensive stream of laudatory comments on Hollinwell, other than to append this link to
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/hollin_well_annesley/
the former (and surprisingly extensive) Hollinwell Halt (a name now of course taken over by the admirably-positioned halfway-ish hut). Rightly or wrongly, we played off the yellow tees at Hollinwell, and the whites at Luffenham and Coxmoor: there was zero run in the morning dew, and this seemed the sensible thing to do. Coxmoor and Hollinwell are both SSS 73 when played from these tees, and we both thought that in that specific context Coxmoor was the tougher test: obviously, Hollinwell off the whites would have been an altogether bigger challenge, but for my friend (6 handicap) and me (14) it did seem pleasingly 'doable', and we both played to or slightly under handicap.
GCAers will be very pleased to hear, following Sean's comments on Coxmoor of a few years ago, that there has been a major programme of tree removal: one of the members we were chatting to said that the course was 'unrecognisable in parts' from even twelve months ago, especially around the 7th, 8th and 9th. That said, there is still some way to go, with some superfluous leylandii prime candidates for the saw. Obviously Coxmoor is ten times noisier and busier than Hollinwell, which shows in the overall conditioning. The entry to Hollinwell, and the sheer scale of the whole site, is unmatched in my experience of British golf inland, and seems more akin to those US courses like Ekwanok that I have only ever glimpsed in photographs. The welcome at both was warm and friendly.
The one east midlands disappointment was the clubhouse beer, which seemed prevalently Greene King and not very exciting. On this outing we couldn't sample Sherwood Forest, about the merits of which there seems some GCA disagreement, but for an unusual British golf trip, combining scenery, history (Robin Hood, Lord Byron etc), industrial archaeology, and really enjoyable and challenging inland golf at very reasonable rates, the East Midlands takes some beating.
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Richard,
Glad you enjoyed your trip to this part of the World.
Your points about the local beer are ones that I agree with. There are a number of smaller local breweries and I think the golf clubs should be embracing them. The Castle Rock brewery in Nottingham does an excellent pale ale called Harvest Pale that would go down very well in most golf clubs!
Thanks for the extra information on the old railways station. I was aware of some of this, but the extra detail and photos are very interesting, and I will add them to the club archive, thanks!
If you are ever this way again, please let me know and we can try and arrange a game.
Cheers,
James
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Hard to believe its been nearly two years since the Notts Buda. Lovely as ever is Notts! See the updated tour.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33988.0.html (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33988.0.html)
Ciao
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The pound seats. I preferred the intensity of the cross bunker to the three new bunkers.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4359/35969524900_591d2eee3a_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4359/35969524900_591d2eee3a_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4374/35530565034_22082078b1_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4374/35530565034_22082078b1_b.jpg)
I like the use of the word intensity, it wouldn't have come to my mind but fits the bill perfectly. I agree, it's a shame the bunker has gone. It did need a tidy up and I assume they had maintenance issues, probably wash-outs that the new split bunkers will alleviate. Though sometimes abit of pain and work is worth the effort for a feature that makes such an impression as the old bunker did.
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Tom
Yes, I was told drainage and erosion issues were the reasons for the bunker split. Though I agree with you that sometimes a bit of grief is worth it. I would rather have seen the bunker visually enhanced rather than done away with.
Ciao
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Sean,
Thanks for the updated tour.
If I could fathom out how to repost pics, I'd put up the old cigarette card of the 14th again, along with the original routing plan.
It goes without saying that anyone who fancies a game here is welcome to get in touch!
Cheers,
James
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Boonie
I saw somewhere that the 5th has been very successfully transformed. Pix?
Ciao
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Boonie
I saw somewhere that the 5th has been very successfully transformed. Pix?
Ciao
Sean,
Yes, a large area of gorse and yorkshire fog grass has been removed and the area between tee and green is now a sandscrape. My best photos on miserable winter days dont do it justice, so I'll wait till things have bedded in a little more in the summer before posting photos, but in the mean time, this link is to one the head greenkeeper took on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/nottsgolfclub/status/1225025525695025153?s=20
[/size]
[/size]We hope to have these on 2 or 3 other holes, but this first one is very much an experiment to see how it works on a heathland course, as I'm only really aware of them on links courses up to now, unless you count Pandy at Ganton? If it doesnt quite work out then at least we've got rid of some dense gorse and thick grass which would then hopefully be replaced by finer grasses and heather coming in naturally?
[/size]Cheers,
[/size]
[/size]James
[/size]
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Boonie
I saw somewhere that the 5th has been very successfully transformed. Pix?
Ciao
Sean,
Yes, a large area of gorse and yorkshire fog grass has been removed and the area between tee and green is now a sandscrape. My best photos on miserable winter days dont do it justice, so I'll wait till things have bedded in a little more in the summer before posting photos, but in the mean time, this link is to one the head greenkeeper took on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/nottsgolfclub/status/1225025525695025153?s=20 (https://twitter.com/nottsgolfclub/status/1225025525695025153?s=20)
We hope to have these on 2 or 3 other holes, but this first one is very much an experiment to see how it works on a heathland course, as I'm only really aware of them on links courses up to now, unless you count Pandy at Ganton? If it doesnt quite work out then at least we've got rid of some dense gorse and thick grass which would then hopefully be replaced by finer grasses and heather coming in naturally?
Cheers,
James
Sounds good Boonie. Which other holes are being considered for the treatment?
Ciao
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The Winter Tour stopped at Notts and I had a chance to take a look at some of the new work. The bunkering is slowly becoming more naturalised. The are a few natural waste areas on the 5th. More importantly, I noticed a few trees and some gorse removed which improves the playability. All in all, a very enjoyable game of golf is to be had at Notts! See the updated tour.
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33988.0.html (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33988.0.html)
Richard, you will be pleased to know that Timmy Taylors is now behind the bar. A fine pint.
2021-22 Winter Tour Previous Stops
Royal Porthcawl
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45933.0.html (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45933.0.html)
Seaton Carew New
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,70404.msg1693517.html#msg1693517 (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,70404.msg1693517.html#msg1693517)
Cleeve Hill
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.0.html (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.0.html)
Minch Old
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48765.75.html (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48765.75.html)
Scheduled Tour Stops
Hunstanton
Brancaster
Muirfield
Goswick
Renaissance
Ciao
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Sean,
Thanks for the updated tour and its always good to be able to show you around my home course.
While playing we discussed the "Original" Willie Park Jnr routing from 1901, the "Old" routing and then the "New" routing which is pretty much as it is today. For anyone else interested here is a link to a thread regarding the history of the layouts, from a few years ago:
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68410.0.html
Cheers,
James
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Thank you James. Very enjoyable.
Atb
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Sean,
Thanks for the updated tour and its always good to be able to show you around my home course.
While playing we discussed the "Original" Willie Park Jnr routing from 1901, the "Old" routing and then the "New" routing which is pretty much as it is today. For anyone else interested here is a link to a thread regarding the history of the layouts, from a few years ago:
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68410.0.html (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68410.0.html)
Cheers,
James
Are there going to be more waste areas and if so, where? I know some on here push back against this kind of thing, but I am sold. I like how the 5th was transformed. We did discuss the idea of a waste area on the 9th.
Ciao
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Sean,
The M&E Masterplan does suggest a few other areas where these sandscrapes could be introduced. In some cases this is where historically there were large cross bunkers, such as before the 15th fairway, while a few others proposed are more out of play.
However, its an emotive subject and the plan is that once we've had the one on the 5th for a few years, the membership will be asked about whether they will be happy to have the others in the masterplan implemented, before we actually do so.
Cheers,
James
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Coincidentally, I was just looking at some aerials of Hollinwell from the 1950s James. This one shows the big bunker at the start of the 15th fairway.
https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/archive/collections/aerial-photos/record/RAF_540_1121_F22_0153 (https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/archive/collections/aerial-photos/record/RAF_540_1121_F22_0153)
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Sean,
Thanks for the updated tour and its always good to be able to show you around my home course.
While playing we discussed the "Original" Willie Park Jnr routing from 1901, the "Old" routing and then the "New" routing which is pretty much as it is today. For anyone else interested here is a link to a thread regarding the history of the layouts, from a few years ago:
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68410.0.html (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68410.0.html)
Cheers,
James
Are there going to be more waste areas and if so, where? I know some on here push back against this kind of thing, but I am sold. I like how the 5th was transformed. We did discuss the idea of a waste area on the 9th.
Ciao
Count me as one who is not sold. And that photo of the 5th does nothing further to convince me.
I look forward to seeing the course in person but in 2D, that scrape looks more like a construction scar than something that would occur naturally.
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Sean,
Thanks for the updated tour and its always good to be able to show you around my home course.
While playing we discussed the "Original" Willie Park Jnr routing from 1901, the "Old" routing and then the "New" routing which is pretty much as it is today. For anyone else interested here is a link to a thread regarding the history of the layouts, from a few years ago:
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68410.0.html (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68410.0.html)
Cheers,
James
Are there going to be more waste areas and if so, where? I know some on here push back against this kind of thing, but I am sold. I like how the 5th was transformed. We did discuss the idea of a waste area on the 9th.
Ciao
Count me as one who is not sold. And that photo of the 5th does nothing further to convince me.
I look forward to seeing the course in person but in 2D, that scrape looks more like a construction scar than something that would occur naturally.
Ally
I echo your thoughts and will need to see it.
M+E have done similar work at Hankley (the 2nd hole I think) which looks more natural.
Also at Ganton they have large expansive sandy waste areas which looks better on a flatter course and also at the expense of gorse which seems to have been vastly reduced which most have said it would be a better course if the amount of gorse was reduced.
Cheers
Ben
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The Pandy area at Ganton was restored before M&E got there. Important to note that it was in an area that had been naturally occurring, worked in to (and sheltered) by the diagonal ridge on the 18th hole carry, hence very three dimensional. Quite feasible that wind would have worked in that fashion to create Pandy.
I understand Ganton are now adding open sand elsewhere. I’ll wait to see if that works as well as Pandy.
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The Pandy area at Ganton was restored before M&E got there. Important to note that it was in an area that had been naturally occurring, worked in to (and sheltered) by the diagonal ridge on the 18th hole carry, hence very three dimensional. Quite feasible that wind would have worked in that fashion to create Pandy.
I understand Ganton are now adding open sand elsewhere. I’ll wait to see if that works as well as Pandy.
The Pandy was brought back a few years ago by Conor Walsh and the latest images shows it being extended to the areas between the tee and fairway recently
They have done more sandy waste areas - pics of 9 and 14 are on their twitter feed - it looks like its turning into UK's version of Pine Valley.
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Sean,
Thanks for the updated tour and its always good to be able to show you around my home course.
While playing we discussed the "Original" Willie Park Jnr routing from 1901, the "Old" routing and then the "New" routing which is pretty much as it is today. For anyone else interested here is a link to a thread regarding the history of the layouts, from a few years ago:
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68410.0.html (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68410.0.html)
Cheers,
James
Are there going to be more waste areas and if so, where? I know some on here push back against this kind of thing, but I am sold. I like how the 5th was transformed. We did discuss the idea of a waste area on the 9th.
Ciao
Count me as one who is not sold. And that photo of the 5th does nothing further to convince me.
I look forward to seeing the course in person but in 2D, that scrape looks more like a construction scar than something that would occur naturally.
I am not overly concerned about what would occur naturally on a golf course. It's an environment prepared for golf which we sometimes try to weave through, preserve or recreate a version of nature which enhances the aesthetics and may even have a positive impact on the biodiversity of the area. It may not be the version of nature you envision, but it is a version a nature.
Ciao