Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: dsilk on February 27, 2007, 08:00:44 AM
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Looking for some guidance as to golf courses in the S.D. area that might be worth playing- aside from the Torrey Pines, Aviara and LaCosta venues. I have been asked to set up some tee times for an event in July and I think that the top tier courses will be too expensive for my troops.
Thoughts??
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I don't know if the price range is right, but otherwise I would really recommend Barona Creek - http://www.baronagolf.com/. Posted some pics from there last year: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=23264;start=msg425774#msg425774 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=23264;start=msg425774#msg425774)
Pete Lavelle will most definitely show up here with some good advice.
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I seem to recall the course at Camp Pendelton is now available to the public - I played it a few years ago with my brother when it was still military access. Nice course, seemed to be in pretty good shape. I don't know what changes public access may have wrought though.
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Looking for some guidance as to golf courses in the S.D. area that might be worth playing- aside from the Torrey Pines, Aviara and LaCosta venues. I have been asked to set up some tee times for an event in July and I think that the top tier courses will be too expensive for my troops.
Thoughts??
I wouldn't call any of those three "top tier." For being one of my all-time favorite cities, San Diego's golf is inept at best. Torrey, Aviara and LaCosta - yawn.
That being said, I've never played Barona Creek.
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I think in my research I saw that Marine Memorial at Camp Pendleton is open to the public currently only M-TH, for about $30. There are some pics on here that were taken of this course about a month or 6 weeks ago.
I have finally decided to go the Socal route with a spring (4/11-4-16) golf trip, and one of the days will be spent in SD. Barona is a given, but we are still considering where the AM round will be played....
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I don't know the SD area well, but on previous trips and Kings Putters, you can't go wrong with Barona Creek. I think they have some decent stay and play packages too, depending on what your troops like to do in the way of gambling...
Also, the two times I played Balboa, it was maintained very soft. Yet, the bones of a neat old course are there. I would like to play it a bit more firm, but for a muni and price, it is a nice round of golf. I don't know what the reserve a block of tee times policy is, but Pete sure does, since it is his home course.
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San Diego and hidden gems do not go toether well. Barona is the best course I have seen there.
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Where to play in San Diego?
Resorts:
Barona Creek 619-387-7018
This is the must play course in the San Diego area. Just a 30 minute drive from downtown, Todd Eckenrode’s creation in Wild Cat Canyon offers a thrill for every class of golfer. The course features strategic bunkering, scattered at different distances, through the wide fairways. Firm and fast conditions put a premium on attacking from the correct angles to the highly contoured greens. Hotel and Casino on site.
Torrey Pines (reservations) 619-570-1234
South: The host for the 2008 US Open is set up as a test of the modern game. Even from the white tees (6,880) this course plays long. Rees improved the 3 holes he moved to the canyon’s edge (3, 4&14) but 18 double plateau greens are a bit repetitive. Greens still need work to justify the $100-$125 rate
North The proposed redesign has been postponed, here’s your chance to play what could be William Francis Bell’s best work. Better use of terrain, nicely contoured set of pushup greens, surely the more scenic of the two courses.
Golfers can show up as early as they want to line up for the morning’s first hour of tee times (cars line up in the parking lot on weekends, during the week you place your golf bag in line in front of the starters booth on the balcony); singles stand a decent chance of getting off through the waiting list in the afternoon.
Carlton Oaks 619-448-4500
This Perry Dye redesign has all the “dye-abolical” trademarks: waste areas, pot bunkers, bulk headed water hazards and many greens that slope away in the back. At 7,225 75.2/146from the tips it’s definitely the second toughest layout in the County. Lots of fun from the blue or white tees though. Hotel on site.
La Costa 760-438-9111
Fans of Dick Wilson will enjoy the artistry of the bunkering on the original tournament course. The bad news is it has been split into the South, with 9 holes shoehorned in by Wilson and the North with its’ additional 9 holes on ample ground with good movement across the street, done by Joe Lee. Unfortunately neither nines are a match for the original work. Sometimes the Resort will let the first group off the North actually play the tournament course, so long as they can beat the first group off the South to the back 9.
Warner Springs Ranch 760-782-4270
High desert course is both scenic and challenging. The remote atmosphere makes this course special; resort rooms have no TV or phones! Little over an hour from downtown but very close to Barona.
Municipal:
Coronado 619-435-3121
Jack Daray designed San Diego’s “Hidden Gem”, built on fill dredged from the harbor in the 50’s, it has 4 holes that play along Glorietta Bay, subtle doglegs test driving ability, the pushup greens punish poor iron play, wind is often a factor. At $25/day for everyone it’s the best deal in town.
Balboa Park (reservations) 619-570-1234
Built in 1918 by William Park Bell, this short (6,281) trip out through the canyons and back across the mesa has remained a tough track to score on. Sam Snead’s course record 60, shot here while in the Navy in WWII, still stands. Views of downtown and the Coronado Islands, walkups should have no trouble playing here.
Encinitas Ranch 760-944-1936
Located ten minutes north of Torrey Pines and five minutes south of Legoland this is an enjoyable and reasonably priced daily fee course. Wide open front nine is complemented by the canyons on the back. Built on the site of a former flower ranch, conditions are usually good.
CCFAD’s:
Maderas CC 858-451-8100
Built on a hilly site this course promises the thrilling downhill holes off the bat, the key here is how much fun the uphill holes are. Neal Meagher’s perfect mix off unique green sites are worth the price of admission alone. Soon to go private when enough memberships are sold.
Del Mar National 858-792-6200
The only Fazio course in San Diego County; All golfers really want is a thrill; this course comes up short here. Very playable and takes a great picture, but the tea cups at Disney Land are more exciting than this place.
The Auld Course changed to Salt Creek 619-482-4666
Although built to sell houses you would find it hard to hit one from the golf course. Die hard walkers beware, you must ride here. Cary Bickler and John Cook have crafted some fine holes here, well worth a look if your in the South Bay area.
Privates:
Rancho Santa Fe CC
Don’t pass up an opportunity to play here. Max Behr’s 1929 layout got the highest Doak rating in San Diego County (5).
La Jolla CC
Canyon golf at its best from William Park Bell, built in 1927.
San Diego CC
Another William Park Bell layout with several barrancas was built in 1921. The redesigned greens seem unsympathetic to the Bell style.
Tijuana CC
The course claims a MacKenzie heritage, but it sure looks like a William Park Bell to me; possibly during his relationship with Tillinghast. Close enough to the border to take the trolley down and hop in a cab for the short journey to the golf course; public access allowed.
Pauma Valley
The only Robert Trent Jones course in San Diego County is in the high desert just past Barona; once rated within the top 20 in Ca.
Military:
Marine Memorial GC, Camp Pendleton 760-725-4704
Set within the expansive Marine base this course by William Francis Bell occupies a peaceful and secluded river valley 50 minutes from downtown. Somewhat shaggy conditioning here doesn’t detract from the enjoyment.
Miramar, Memorial GC 858-577-4155
Jack Daray shows how to turn a flat parcel of land into an interesting golf course at the old Top Gun base. Now a Marine Corp Air Station it has some of the best conditioned greens in the County; wind and FA-18’s are always a factor here.
Sea & Air GC 619-545-9659
Located on North Island Naval Air Station it is a tale of two nines, the front is cramped with many parallel holes, not much to write home about. However the back nine’s holes are wonderfully separated with 3 playing along the sand dunes right along the beach. The runway splits the back nine and you’ll have an opportunity to see many types of Military Aircraft practicing their touch and goes.
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Dave,
Barona is really a step above everything else; although the rates are steep, the stay and play packages would help make it more affordable. Nearby in Ramona is a very pleasant mountain course, San Vicente.
Coronado is definetly the hidden gem; you can reserve tee times after 10:00 am in advance by paying an extra $15 per person, $40 is still a good deal there.
Carlton Oaks would be my next choice; you might be able to reseve a block of times there.
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What a great guide Pete, thanks!!
One question...do Sea & Air and Miramar allow public play like the M-TH deal at Marine Memorial?
And OT-
What do you think of Manny reporting late?
Do you agree with not extending Schilling at least for now?
Papelbon as starter or closer, and if starter, who gets the first shot at closing?
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Brad,
Unfortunately to play Sea & Air you need a sticker on your vehicle to get on North Island Naval Air Base. Once you're on the base they will let you play at the visitor rate. They are planning on completely redesigning the front nine; the project keeps getting pushed ahead, but could start any day now.
The Marine Corps will allow visitors on base without a decal; both courses are practically empty with all our Marines being deployed to Iraq.
As far as the Red Sox:
Hey, it's just Manny being Manny!
Best to be cautiouis when dealing with 40 year old pitchers, Schilling included.
I say let Papelbon start; lets not burn him out like we did to poor Kieth Foulke.
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I've heard some good things about Steele Canyon. While its not in San Diego itself, isn't it close enough to be considerd in the SD vicinity?
Is this course worth a visit?
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I'm guessing a sticker can only be obtained if i was in the military or had someone's car who worked on base..
Manny is Manny, but I bed his agents don't like apologizing for him every time. I would think that by now he knows what actions rock the boat and what actions will not.
I actually agree with letting the Schilling situation go. I would love to have him back, if he pitches well, but the odds are 50-50 if not slightly leaning in the team's favor.
I agree the Papelbon should start, as I think he will be great. Who knows who will get the closer job though. My guess is that it will be between Timlin (barring back spasms), Piniero, and Donnelly. Too bad all have not closed for very long (if at all) in their careers.
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I photographed Steele Canyon about ten years ago. It looked like a lot of fun. Three distinct 9's. Ranch, Canyon, and Meadows.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/0163SteeleCyn-Canyon8H.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/4284SteelCyn-Canyon7H.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/0158SteeleCyn-Meadows4F.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/4290SteeleCyn-Ranch8.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/4292SteeleCyn-Ranch3AM.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/yeldrab/4289SteeleCyn-Ranch7red.jpg)
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Kalen,
Steele Canyon is a Gary Player design, I personally don't find it very attractive. It is virtually unwalkable, that would be the biggest turnoff to me. It has some fun holes and if you like teeing off at the top of a mountain then it just might float your boat. They are trying to go private but are unable to get enough people to sign up, at a fairly attractive rate, so that should tell you something. The place is always well conditioned, the weekday rate seems about right for what you get. It's a 20 minute drive from downtown.
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Dave,
Check out Singing Hills in El Cajon, about 30 min. west of the city. 20+ years ago this was by far the best play in SD outside of Torrey and Coronado.
It appears an Indian reservation has taken over the place and they now sport a lodge and casino. Not sure how the golf has held up over the years. They had 2 18's (Willow Glen & Oak Glen - can't recall which I preferred) and a 9 holer.
Interested to hear what the San Diego boys have to about how it stacks up now...
www.sycuanresort.com
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Pete,
I have nothing against Gary Player, elevated tee shots, or good conditioning. As to the course, I'll be honest, when its a brutally hilly course/massive walks from green to next tee, I'll take the cart and won't think twice about it.
I guess I was just surprised that given the lack of good options in the San Diego area that this wasn't included.
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Scott,
Singing Hills has 2 18 hole courses designed by Ted Robinson. The longer one, Willow Glen is virtually the same as when built; although they bought Ted back to change the green on a back nine par 3 to his patented triple tier; he also added one of his patented "waterscapes". Oak Glen has changed the back nine, the part furthest away from the clubhouse to up the total yardage just a bit and interupt the string of 300 yard holes. There is also the 18 hole par 3 course, Pine Glen.
The Sycaun Casino is just down the road, certainly the influx of tribal cash has helped the golf course, the place was in great shape the last time I played out there. One might get the impression that it's all in the same place but the golf course and resort accomadations are not right next to the casino.
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Encinitas Ranch near Carlsbad would be a good tourny course and is near the ocean but 1/2 the price of Torrey and much easier to get on. Inland I liked Mt. Woodson, cart ball but fun and challenging. Best bang for buck inland is Vineyard and Eagle Valley in Escondido.
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I'd second any nomination for Barona; great place. Mount Woodson is a bit of a drive, and not mentioned yet, but I've always found it enjoyable, in spite of a few bad spots.
To answer the "hidden gem" question, Camp Pendleton might be the closest thing...a good bang for the buck, M-Th. The pace of play is good, weak conditioning, some solid holes......but not many people to share the excitement with!
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Mt Woodson is certainly unique; you have to ask yourself how they built some of the holes there, they must have heloed in the equipment. One thing I don't like about Mt woodson is that it takes the driver out of play on far too many holes. There are also ficticious back tees which are needed to get the overall yardage up to 6000 yards on the scorecard. Not a bad place to take your grandpa or grandma; for those who have never golfed on a mountain with boulders strewn everywhere it could be a fun day out. I just hesitate to recommend a 5900 yard golf course.
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... Not a bad place to take your grandpa or grandma; for those who have never golfed on a mountain with boulders strewn everywhere it could be a fun day out. I just hesitate to recommend a 5900 yard golf course.
Pete
You're suffering from the Doak conundrum
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Yes, definitely check out Salt Creek (formerly The Auld Golf Club).
I played there several months back and the course was in great shape. It was quite windy, but a very good test of golf... a very good test.
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If you are trying to play 2 courses in the same day with Barona the for sure play, then your other choices are very limited geographically--Barona is out in the boondocks. that being said, Carlton Oaks is a half hour away. San Vicente and Mt. Woodson are 20 minutes away. Camp Pendleton and Coronado are 1and 1/2 hours away. San Vicente could be Ted R's best--at least it is fun to play. I would go with Carlton Oaks.
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I toured Steele Canyon last week. Avoid the Meadows Nine which is routed through homes. The Ranch and Canyon Nines appeared very good with some spectacular elevation changes. Try to talk your way on as a resident for a better rate!
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Okay, as a resident San Diegan, here it goes. There are not any hidden gems in the city. San Diego is certainly one of, if not THE worst golf area for a major city in the country. I'll concur with Robert and Pete, Barona is a very good course and if here, should definitley be on the list. However, unless you can access to Rancho Sante Fe GC, San Diego CC or Pauma Valley CC, there is very little I could say with confidence to recommend. Carlton Oaks is very tough, but I've never found it anything more than that. It will be going under the knife this year with the assistance of Geoff Shackelford. Coronado is a fun course, nothing spectacular, but has great views of the city skyline and plays along the bay. Pete covered descriptions pretty well so I can't really add anything to that, but a drive to South Orange County is really not that far and it will give you a few more options. San Clemente Muni is a fun and inexpensive Billy Bell sr and jr design. Right down the road from there is Arroyo Trabuco and is not bad. Talega is close by as well, a Brian Curley/Fred Couples design, although I have not played that as of yet so I can't say how good it is. The SCGA Club is a RTJ Sr. is about an hour or so away in Murrieta. Not great, but has some fun holes. I will say that Maderas is one of the best public access in SD, but it can be very expensive depending on when you go. Good Luck. IM me if you need a fourth.
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Guys,
thank you!! awesome intel and great ideas for every price point-
much appreciated!
ds
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For the odd day out:
Balboa Park (Wm. Parc Bell...but significantly altered...yet, somehow an interesting experiece.)
Tecolote Canyon (Robert Trent Jones, Sr., and often, credeited to Sam Snead...?...an interesting executive layout in a narrow canyon. A true throw-back.)
http://www.americangolf.com/coursedetails.cfm?courseid=28
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I used to live in SD and played Balboa a few times. It is a fun course, nothing real special but I do love the canyons in the park. Somehow to me the canyons around San Diego really sort of define the area. Some are high end residential and some are tangles of undergrowth full of trash and anyone or anything that can live there.
If you get an early tee time at Balboa you can see it all. There are all types (homeless or illegals) who take refuge in the shrubs along the canyon walls in the park. They can become a makeshift gallery sometimes even taking a mild interest in your game as you pass by.
It can be a beautiful thing in the early morning.
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By the way....
You MUST go to Point Loma Seafoods for a fried squid sandwich! it is spectacular, I still have cravings. Big chunks of VERY tender squid about 1" thick, breaded and fried and served on french sourdough with home made tartar sauce.
Doh.....! I drooled again.
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So, San Diego experts, I have a "friend" who was wondering--is Barona Creek a "ditch the family and brave any repurcussions" kind of course, or is it more of a great local course that an out of towner should play if they have the time?
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Pete,
When I played golf with Curt Schilling last year (he was in town playing the Phillies), he told me this was going to be his last year. Interesting that he changed his mind. He is one heck of a nice guy. I hope he plays well this year and that he wants to play golf again...he doesn't play at home during the season; only on the road.
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Just back from a trip, and I thought this was a neat history of Marine Memorial GC @ Camp Pendleton:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ds5QBqQ9FeE/V4I_i5enwGI/AAAAAAAAC9c/PqlIyrpiODQwhSdrva3bIvFeNhVke1rtgCL0B/s703-no/IMG_1342.JPG)
I found the back nine to be pretty good:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HkuAmA-OQbA/V4JCtCAY-CI/AAAAAAAAC-E/FixPf1N8QzonorcAgQQZPECqquVwYwsDgCL0B/w937-h703-no/IMG_1334.JPG)
Overall, a nice course with potential (soft greens, missing bunkers, and few trees that don't belong) in a very nice isolated canyon floor setting on Camp Pendleton.
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Glad you liked it, Mike. It's my home course. I like it.
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I'm a Marine Memorial fan, too. Around this time last year, they had allowed the grasses between certain holes to grow about a foot tall, creating a nice aesthetic in spots. Not sure if they have kept it that way. Also, the last time I was there, the course was swarming with squirrels.
Here's my album of 25 photos of the course, if anyone's interested:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24952137@N00/albums/72157658183999818/with/21372436886/
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The MCMGC history there is a little off, but that's not unusual. For LJCC and SDCC ... those are both confirmed as being William Watson designs with Billy coming in afterwards to do some renovation work.
Love MCMGC for what it offers and agree it has some real potential in the right hands.
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OK Patrick, set us straight, who designed Marine Memorial? Is your take that it wasn't Billy Bell Jr.?
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Hi Pete,
I don't think I'm the resident expert for this, but I seem to recall that it was a son and father affair on this one. Perhaps David Stamm can chime in, as I think he has more on this possibly. I think even if one had not seen the history, one could probably guess from the ground, how the course is laid out and drains that it could have had some Billy Bell involvement.
The part that was off was the club's statement that both SDCC and LJCC were original Billy Bell designs. That has been confirmed without doubt to be incorrect. William Watson was the designer then later on Billy Bell came in for some rework. David's got the skinny on this and I don't think I should take away any of his thunder... ;D
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Patrick,
I'm still checking the mailbox for my invitation to La Jolla CC! SD CC has embraced their Willie Watson heritage and now proudly display a plaque by the first tee noting his contributions.
Quite often William Park Bell, the father, gets credit for William Francis Bell, the son's work. We do know that Billy Bell Sr. died in 1956. He is often credited with designing the two courses at Torrey Pines, but they weren't opened until 1957. If the course was indeed opened in 1948, Billy Bell Sr. would seem to be be the most likely candidate for its design.
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Would the recommendations in the 2007 part of this thread still be accurate? Anything closed or opened once that's worth playing?
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Would the recommendations in the 2007 part of this thread still be accurate? Anything closed or opened once that's worth playing?
On a quick scan, I didn't see Maderas mentioned in this thread. Maybe it opened post-2007, I'm not sure. It's a nice Johnny Miller layout in Poway. https://www.flickr.com/photos/24952137@N00/albums/72157659887719308/with/22439719192/
Singing Hills is mentioned in this thread, but now goes by the name Sycuan Golf Resort. I love both regulation courses there.
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Mark,
I am not sure how much Johnny Miller input went into Maderas, but the associate for Robert Muir Graves who spent all his time there was Neal Meagher, who used to post here.
P.S. The real hidden gem in San Diego is Pete Lavallee. That man knows how to host a party.
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Maderas opened in 1999.
Bob Graves did the majority of the design work and Johnny Miller came in and suggested some alternatives on a limited number of holes. In past five years, bunkers were reworked to allow better drainage and finer grain sand used throughout. Has held up reasonably well with the water shortage.
I think the final stretch of seven holes is challenging and aesthetically very nice.
Fairways are bermuda, which goes dormant in winter. Superintendent stopped fighting poa annua and they are maintaining greens from that perspective.
It is generally in very good shape.
Have played there since 2000 and bought a condo in San Diego in 2001, in Rancho Bernardo.
Being a city property owner, I can play Torrey Pines as resident. Probably would not pay full out of town rate.
Torrey South and Maderas are included in top 100 of America's public courses.
Aviara and Maderas are Troon affiliated. California Twosome card will get a two for one play at each course and discounted rates for two within booking window.
I like Barona Creek very much but haven't been there for a couple of years. Barona Club card is free and gets discount of 20 percent.
Have played a lot of the courses in the area in the last 15 years. There are quite a few courses in the area that would be 3.5 or 4 stars in the old Golf Digest rankings. They are decent places to play and lower rates are often available.
You can't fault the weather.
Charles Lund
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Thanks Craig and Charles. Good to know!
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Late response, but here it goes. The course did indeed open in 1948. Bell was able to secure some military projects in part because of his prior relationship with the Army Corps of Engineers as a turf consultant during the war. El Toro was another military project that sadly is now NLE.
As Patrick stated, there is much on the ground as well as aerials form the '50's that shows WPB's hand, such as the unusual serpentine like bunker around 1 green that is no longer there. In addition, there are a few bunker carcasses that are not anything like WFB ever did, such as the complex to the right of the 15th green complex. There are other things on the ground there as well, even today.
In addition, Francis did not join his fathers' business until after the war (still not sure on precisely when that was), but since the course was built in 1948, and the war ended in 1945, I'm not sure how much of an influence WFB would've had on MM, if at all. I feel very comfortable calling MM a WPB course.
Now, there has been work done to to the course since it was initially built, much of it for the worse, but that's another subject. Having said that, the course overall, it is quite solid and worth seeing, as there is not much original WPB left anywhere.
4,5,9, 12(from the right tee), 15 and 16 are very solid holes.
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Thanks for all the feedback. I have played with Pete in the past and perhaps next trip to San Diego, we can get a group together.
I know it is not "great", but I really would like to play Coronado GC as I have driven past it so many times. We went to "The Del" for dinner and thankfully the wifey is not much of a drinker so she drove home over "The Bridge". I think the Bay Bridge in Annapolis is scarier, but not by much!
(http://res.gdol.com/ap/p.php?a=pv&p=51883)
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Mike, Coronado is a very pleasant experience and showcases the beauty of our city quite well. I always enjoy playing there.
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Mike,
My buddy and I were on the wait list for 5 years to get into the Coronado Men's Club! It was well worth it as we have a two day weekend tournament every month, with a couple of one day satellites. We get free breakfast on Sat and free lunch and beer on Sun! We get great participation with the tee box full from 6:00 till 12:00. We kiss the ground every time we get to play in their events. It is truly the ideal muni course, the wide fairways and very low rough make it easy for the beginner to get around and the push up greens provide a great challenge for the better player. The setting is fantastic with 4 holes that play along side of Glorrieta Bay. Conditions have come a long way as the Poa Annua greens are maintained with minimal water so ball marks and footprints are no longer an issue. They don't discriminate against tourists either as Coronado residents get a slight discount and everyone else pays the same.
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How about Rancho Bernardo? We're escaping the obscene heat here in the Valley of the Sun for a few days there in August. It's now a JC Golf affiliate and so is Encinitas Ranch . Is that course nearby?
Thanks.
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How about Rancho Bernardo? We're escaping the obscene heat here in the Valley of the Sun for a few days there in August. It's now a JC Golf affiliate and so is Encinitas Ranch . Is that course nearby?
As a Walnut Lane guy, I really do suggest a trip to Goat Hill:
(http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53ac7092e4b0cb2b675709f9/t/5697021a1f4039853c5288ef/1469076448900/?format=300w)
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Mike,
Goat Hill is worth a trip but we don't know how many days are golf days. I'll have to ask Mrs. S. ;D
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There are two courses at Ranco Bernardo, the Inn course is public, there is also a CC. The Inn course is a nice
Billy Bell Jr. Course. Dining at the Inn is highly rated. I haven't played the CC but you might be able to gain access if staying at the Inn.
Encinitas Ranch is a Cary Bickler design, wide open front nine with the back nine playing through canyons. Very close to Lego Land off I5.
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Encinitas Ranch is a waste of time, unless you want to play on a property that could have produced a Doak 9, but managed a 1.5! This shows why Bickler belongs with Fleming as the most incompetent course designers in the business! RB Inn found a way to play sopping wet in the driest months of the drought and they have taken watering to rice paddies extremes this summer. There are a couple good holes, but overall golf amongst homes, but a hotel that sets the standard for service. Carlton Oaks, after a few Korean owners trying to game the city for a condo development on the driving range, has a new Japanese owner who has brought the fairways up to the best condition in 10+ years. Bunkers are still a sand and clay adventure, but they are trying to improve conditions. Due to a lack of water, the greens are firm and roll out well. This course when playing firm is easily the most challenging in SD. Madras is not terrible, but way over priced. They survive because the owner is a Mexican billionaire in which the golf course neighborhood provides a perfect place for his estate to be secure without drawing interest.
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RBI is a better course than Encinitas Ranch by far. Encinitas Ranch was a blown opportunity and is......unfortunate. My daughter goes there once a week to play in a girls program, so I am very familiar with the course.
The Inn course is better than the private CC course. I don't much care for the CC, FWIW.
Goat Hill has to be seen to be believed. It is a wild ride with some over the top holes, a result of the very severe property. Still, it's worth seeing simply because of what Ashworth has accomplished there. It's working in it's efforts to bring affordable golf in a unique, quintessential California surfer type atmosphere combined with a town/community gathering spot ala Scotland. I like it, but would not want to play there all the time because of the severity of the course. It's a tough walk.
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All,
Thanks for your thoughts. We will play at RBI one day. Carlton Oaks looks promising. How about Carmel Mountain Ranch? It seems to be closer to RBI. Their website reveals a recent renovation. Seems to be a housing development course. Wanted to play Marine Memorial but they have a ladies club event every Tuesday morning.
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You might look at Greenskeeper.org and see what it says recently about Carlton Oaks. I usually play it in winter when bermuda is dormant.
Carmel Mountain Ranch did a renovation and reopened some time ago. I think they took out a lot of grass and went with enlarged waste areas. One of the outside services at Maderas plays Carmel Mountain as home course and spoke positively of the renovation.
Farther up I-15 from Rancho Bernardobis Golf Club of California, built by Landmark in early 2000s to be a private course. We go up there from time to time.
Charles Lund
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I feel the turf reduction at Carmel Mountain Ranch hurt the course. I had played it a few times many years ago, and then returned last December to check it out, post-turf reduction. It's too tricked out in spots and plays too firm to have nothing but crushed granite if you stray from the fairway and minimal rough. This causes it to play very much as a "target golf" course. There are still a few interesting holes, but nothing I'd go too far out of your way to see.
My album of 23 photos from that day can be viewed here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24952137@N00/albums/72157661406587549/with/23206922389/
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Carmel Mountain Ranch is just terrible, with or without turf reduction.
Mt. Woodson is not a bad option. It's shortish, but has some fun holes.
Steve, if you can make Marine Memorial work, it's really one of the best options in the area.
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Pete,
Unfortunately, Marine Memorial has a tournament scheduled on one of our golf days so we'll play RBI and nearby Mt. Woodson ($39 senior rate!)
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Just returned. Played Mt. Woodson & Rancho Bernardo Resort Course.
Mt. Woodson is a very interesting course. Short but challenging. 6000y. Cartball. I can't imagine anyone walking there. Reminded me of a mini Wolf Creek. Requires a few plays to figure out some holes and get used to mountain greens. For $39 senior rate, it's a good value course. Recently sold. New owners doing some work.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/may/10/mt-woodson-golf-course-new-owner/
http://mtwoodsongolfclub.com/
RBI is another interesting course. My first experience on zoysia/kikuyu grass. 18 is a strong finishing hole- dogleg right, then uphill to a green fronted by a lake. Wm F Bell 1962 design. Very good bunkering. Greens were a little slow as the pro said it's a resort course and they're keeping them up for the summer.Having well water helps in CA..
http://www.ranchobernardoinn.com/golf/courses
Some pictures here:
https://www.yelp.com/biz/rancho-bernardo-inn-golf-course-san-diego
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Steve,
Glad you enjoyed your golf in SD. Mt Woodsen is an interesting experience, unwalkable is quite a good description. Although the scorecard says 6000, there are some fictitious back tees which don't exist to get to that number. They claimed the environmentalists wouldn't allow them to be built! Still the elevation changes keep you honest. Quite a few holes that can be driven, at your peril. Probably more prudent to lay up off the tee but where's the fun in that! A coworker recently bought a house there with a putting green in the backyard, so he decided to take up golf; we have played there few times with him and the course has grown on me a bit.
RBI struggles with overwatering as its a bit inland, no one was ever fired for putting too much water on their greens! Although the course is the work of Billy Bell Jr the waterscape on 18 is surely the work of Ted Robinson. Eye catching but perhaps a bit out of place.
Next time make sure you get out to Barona Creek, you will not be disappointed.
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Pete, I can't remember. Was the waterfall there before Curley did his work?
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It was there the first time I played it. If it was Curley, Robinsons son should sue for copywrite infringement!
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Anyone having any new thoughts on San Diego area golf, public or private. The last post here is about seven years ago and, surely, there’s something new there or maybe even opinions have changed.
JG
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I'd try Marine Memorial GC @ Camp Pendleton:
Unyielding to the seasoned, yet playable for the novice, William P. Bell’s Marine Memorial Golf Course has been praised for its bunkers, ingenuity, and innovations in golf course construction. Enjoy the Marine Corps heritage of this course and play for the history, the heroes, and the tradition.
Open to the public. Apply for base access. There is a one-week wait for processing. Once approved, access is valid for 90 days.
https://pendleton.usmc-mccs.org/recreation-fitness/recreation/outdoor-recreation/marine-memorial-golf-course
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Does no mention of Admiral Baker North mean it’s a bit hidden or inspires no love? I prefer it to some mentioned so far. Centrally located, not expensive, no civilian restrictions. Popular, but tee times available.
The South course is the less gifted brother.
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A lot has changed since this post was started! I used to be able to access all the military bases with my DOD Retiree card but those were made invalid on August 31.
Barona is no longer open to the public. They have severe water issues and are waiting for a pipeline to be built from the wastewater treatment plant in Ramona. Until then just 9 holes are open with 2 flags per green. They are only watering tees and greens. The course is only open to Tribal members and high rollers from the Casino.
Salt Creek, Warner Springs and Carmel Mountain have closed due to lack of water.
San Vicente Resort, 15 minutes north of Barona completely redesigned their greens with Andy Staples and the results are stunning. Definitely the place to tee it up in SD now. $70 during the week.
Sycaun has changed back to Singing Hills to avoid confusion with the new hotel at the Casino. The tribe just finished a renovation on Oak Glen, they are working on Willow Glen now. The par 3 course Pine Glen will close in October to make soccer fields for the new MLS Team.
Admiral Baker North redesigned their greens about 10 years ago and they are still A4 bent with paspalum green surrounds. Conditions here are very good. The trouble is the Military, Retirees, DOD have first priority for tee times so opening could be scarce for the general public which is welcome. Right near the old Jack Murphy Stadium. Avoid the South course which is slated for a redesign once the survey for unexplored ordnance is completed!
The only new course built is Arrowood in Oceanside, a very hilly housing track. Also the Golf Club of California went public, it’s located in Fallbrook.
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Admiral Baker North redesigned their greens about 10 years ago and they are still A4 bent with paspalum green surrounds. Conditions here are very good. The trouble is the Military, Retirees, DOD have first priority for tee times so opening could be scarce for the general public which is welcome. Right near the old Jack Murphy Stadium. Avoid the South course which is slated for a redesign once the survey for unexplored ordnance is completed!
Pete, good to hear about the South redesign. Do you know any details?
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Goat Hill is fun, in better shape than it has ever been in and you can meet some interesting people.
Other than that, San Diego probably has some of the most uninspired golf of any major American city, which considering the weather is a shame !
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Since nobody has mentioned it. I have been enjoying my casual games at The Loma Club in Point Loma, designed by A. G. Spalding.
It's casual like Goat Hill but only 9 holes. It's a nice place for a quick game to kill some time before a flight as it's right beside the airport. It really rests on the few holes overlooking the harbour but it is one of those places that is really embracing the more casual side of golf. As you can see kids, surfers, business men and all manner of people enjoying the spot.
I think I might play it tomorrow as I have a lag day in San Diego.
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Greg,
The South Course at Admiral Baker was originally a short “beginners course”. Around 20 years ago they lengthened it and put in dwarf Bermuda greens. Those greens lasted about 5 years and are now perfect circles of Poa Annua. Their motivation for the redesign is that officials said they can’t let water laden with fertilizer or pesticides leech in the adjacent San Diego River. MWR has $5MM in the coffers to perform the work. They have selected Cary Bickler to do the work. Apparently he had drawn up a plan but it has not been made public. I suspect there will be a detention pond added somewhere. They said they don’t have enough money to reroute the cart paths so the layout will probably be unchanged. Work was meant to start this spring until the Ordnance Survey was mandated; apparently the place was a Military training ground in WW II. The Army Corps of Engineers has a contractor who has a large machine which can scan 3 feet below any digging. I asked in the Pro Shop last week how things were going and with a sigh they said: it’s in the hands of the Environmentalists now.
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I'd like to throw in a plug for the Lomas Santa Fe executive golf course in Solana Beach. It is cheap, accessible and really fun with hilly terrain, a decent variety of yardages and greens that are usually in excellent shape. It is one of the better Par 3 courses I've played and has a great vibe - I usually play as a single and always have a good time.
Also, Balboa Park has been doing some tree removal on the back nine and the holes around the canyons look better than ever.
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John,
The tree removal on #10 was the result of a visit from the USGA Agronomist during the last US Open at Torrey Pines. He suggested removing the massive Eucalyptus from behind the green; it must have been over 100 years old and its demise was surely imminent. The skyline view to downtown is now quite impressive. He also recommended removing the one to the right of the green side bunker. It’s made a dramatic change and the hole doesn't play any easier. He also made a suggestion on how to fix the 4th hole; I’d love to hear about that!
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When I lived in SD I used to like Encinitas Ranch alot when Torrey was too busy. Challenging course with great greens and ocean breezes although not on the ocean you could see it.
Also Maderas was very challenging and always in great shape.
Carlton Oaks and Mission Trails are inland courses which were always challenging and fun with the later on Lake Murray with some great views.
It's been some time since I have been down there so maybe some of the locals can confirm current conditions. 8)
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Looks like Barona Creek has shut down 9 holes due to water conservation.
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John:
Your timing is perfect. I have been chatting with a neighbor who is teaching himself and his son, and I have not seen Lomas Santa Fe either.
Pete:
Oh, for some money for mounding and hazards on at least some of ABS's forgettable holes!
I too would love to hear the Balboa #4 suggestion. Would I want it to be realized? (Yes, I admit to being a little bit fond of that crazy thing.) The DG might like a crack at its redesign if someone with technical skill would be kind enough to post a graphic.
Tim
Nice to see a vote for Mission Trails, which is priced in the muni range. 10 to 17 is a pleasant walk with some fun holes, especially 10 and 16. Some quirky (to be polite) holes elsewhere, including 4, 5 and 18.
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Playing The Loma Club at dawn with a friend last December before my flight home and seeing the sun rise over the city skyline is a top-tier golf course moment for me.
If there's a better $60-$70 golf course in America than San Vicente, I'd love to see it.
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Has anyone played Marine Memorial recently? Or more specifically, has anyone gotten a civilian access pass for Camp Pendleton recently? I called at some point in the springtime and they told me the Visitor's Center had been badly damaged by all the early-year rain, and as a result, there would be no way to apply for base access for several months until they fixed and reopened it.
When this thread was bumped a week or so ago, it reminded me to inquire. (I'm not sure if the "apply and the approval takes about a week" message on their website is current because the process for gaining access seems to change every year or so.) I've tried to call the course several times over the weekend and today, and it just rings and rings with no answer. They used to always answer their phone. Any chance they're closed for overseeding right now?
Also, anyone know if the water main break that caused the course to dry out has been fixed?
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Update: Called again today and their phones worked normally. The guy who answered said there's no update since the Visitors Center was damaged, and there's currently no way for civilians to apply for base access. Bummer.
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Update: Called again today and their phones worked normally. The guy who answered said there's no update since the Visitors Center was damaged, and there's currently no way for civilians to apply for base access. Bummer.
It's been years since I played there but when I did I just drove up to the front gate and told the guard I was meeting a friend at the golf course and they let me right through as I have done at many military courses. Also it's not as if Pendleton is some top secret base, it's a training center for infantry. ;D
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Update: Called again today and their phones worked normally. The guy who answered said there's no update since the Visitors Center was damaged, and there's currently no way for civilians to apply for base access. Bummer.
It's been years since I played there but when I did I just drove up to the front gate and told the guard I was meeting a friend at the golf course and they let me right through as I have done at many military courses. Also it's not as if Pendleton is some top secret base, it's a training center for infantry. ;D
Not sure if you're just being nostalgic or saying that I'm overly dramatizing the process. When I first played there (I think about a decade ago), the process was much looser... just show ID at the gate. Since then, they've changed it several times, and most recently for me (April 2022), I had to go into the Visitor's Center where they conducted some sort of quick background check and then issued a 90-day base access pass. The whole process took around 45 minutes to an hour. I believe that's still the "official" process (once the Visitor's Center reopens, that is) but maybe they are more lax at the gates than I know of.