Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Willie_Dow on February 10, 2007, 06:10:42 AM
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It is up for grabs ! But where is the shortest, and describe the green contour.
Willie
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Top o' the morning, Bill.
Pocono Manor East current 7th is a decidedly downhill 77 yards with all players playing from a single tee.
Flynn's design was 115 yards when it played as his 3rd hole.
I don't know the green contours, but all the greens have shrunk to a small fraction of the original size. I understand Mark Fine may be doing something there in the future.
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I assume we're talking regulation full length 18 hole courses on this one. I've played some pitch and putts with some little shorties.
And my local mini putt-putt has got some short little dosies that you are just praying to get down in the 3 putts on ;D
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Kalen,
Pocono Manor East plays from the forward tees to 5977 yards and from the tips 6565 yards. This 77-yard hole on a regulation course has to be one of the shortest holes in all of golf and it is steeply downhill.
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Very nice Wayne,
I can think of one that comes close to that. Its at Highlands golf course in northern idaho. On the front 9 there is a par 3 that plays 85 yards over a steep ravine to a tiny 2 tiered green. With trouble lurking behind, its actually an intimidating shot, even at that distance. Get on the upper tier, with the pin down below and your just hoping to keep it on the green.
From the tips this plays at 6300+
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#7 green at PM east has a sharp back to front tilt on it and also has a creek fronting the very small green. there is a road directly behind the tee, with a tunnel crossing under it to get from 6th green to 7th tee. the road must not of been there when it was played at 125 yrds., unless they played over it. the hole also is extremely downhill, and probably plays closer to 55-60 yards.
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Wayne, what's the 77 yard hole like? Easy...hard...any hazards...O.B...wind...tough green...what club(s) do you hit there?
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Jim, it is especially hard for the first or second timer because it is almost impossible to believe how short the shot plays with 77 yards combined with its dramatic drop downhill. It truly plays, if memory serves (it has been ~ 20 years), more like a 30 yard pitch. As Racetrack George mentioned, there is a creek in front, and there are woods long.
I don't remember now, but Art Wall had a number of holes-in-one on this little gem (his son Greg was (is?) the pro there).
Willie, I don't recall this green having much in the way of contouring, though it did slope towards the creek.
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andy
Art Wall had 43 career hole in ones, but i do not think any were at Pocono Manor. He rarely played there, although he did represent PM while playing the tour.
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I stand corrected. Thanks Racetrack---I had that tucked away for years--not sure why.
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What a difficult shot these short holes can play. We have an 89 yarder here at The Moorings Club where with the pin up front any putt behind the pin that misses the cup goes off the green .
Wayne, when did they change Flynn's original hole ? It must have been a devil of a shot with hickories !
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andy what did you think of the 3rd hole at PM east?
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I played a Langford and Moreau in my youth, CC of Lansing, MI, that had a 90 yard par 3. Wonder if its still there...
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The third hole at Glenbrook GC (on the Nevada side of Lake Tahoe) isn't the shortest but it's certainly one of the coolest. Only 85 yards, it plays across a very large bunker, most of the area between the tee and green in fact, and immediately behind the large, flattish green is Lake Tahoe!
Great variety of holes on that little nine holer, the next hole is a 225 yard par 3!
Anthony Pioppi, is Glenbrook on your list?
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andy what did you think of the 3rd hole at PM east?
It makes the 7th look conventional. ;)
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There was a tiny par 3 on a course near Long Beach. It was a full length 18 on a very small footprint. I think it was about 90 yards to a green that jutted into a small pond. The course was Cypress ______. It was a Dye project that closed for houses as I recall...
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Kalen,
Why did you assume it has to be a regulation 18? What's wrong with a 9-hole course of regulation length?
Anthony
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Anthony, how about Glenbrook GC that I mentioned above? Is that on your list of 9-holers?
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Can't quite beat Wayne, but the 3rd at River Run GC in Crossville, TN is 88 yards from the tips. Its also steeply downhill and is an island green (or peninsula if you wanted to be very picky there is some ground to the right but it does not help with avoiding the pond. The green is small and shallow.
The hole before is 567 yards, they used to have the shortest and longest holes in the county back-to-back. 6430 total.
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The Quarry at Ilfracombe is 75 yards. There's a picture of it at http://www.ilfracombegolfclub.com/
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could someone knowledgable pls fill in the details ...Inniscrone, front nine, after a very good dogleg par 4???...maybe #5?.....
basically it appeared Gil "ran out of room" and squeezed a very very fun, testing downhiller ...it felt like 80 yards, but was probably longer...green sloped away, I believe, and tilted rt to left??? trouble of some sort lurked behind???... someone pls help fill in the details...
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Mark, I couldn't find the picture of the 75 yarder at Ilfracome, but was it a downhill or an uphill/flat hole ? Is the hole measured by the flight of the ball, or the distance to the vertical position of the green ? (If you know what I'm trying to say here.)
Scott, we'll have to get Kittleman on here to give you the history of the Inniscrone short hole.
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Willie,
Select 'card' on the left menu, then click on the hole name.
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Willie,
go to the website referenced, click one scorecard, then click on the name (quarry) left of the entry for the hole.
Looks like it is fairly level.
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Thanks Peter and Garland ! I wonder what the comment next to the picture "but don't look down" means ? Normally, I'm told not to look up on my golf shot .
But I still wonder on an elevated tee, with a very short carry, like that at Pocono Manor East, maybe the shot is actually shorter than at Ilfracome. How would you answer that ?
Mark, I'm not trying to start a Walker Cup controversy here.
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A course in Scotland called Loch Ness, built in '96 on the side of a hill has a par 3 on the backside 76 yards! I couldn't believe it when I got to it. It plays across a ravine, a little downhill and has a trap in front. I don't remember what the green was like, only that it played about 60 yards.
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What's the shortest par 3 you have played that you really liked?
I've only played the hole at Pocono Manor of those listed so far, but I'm not looking to copy it somewhere on one of my own designs.
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Tom Doak,
The 10th at Inwood is a nice par 3 at under 100 yards.
The rear tier in the putting surface and falloff long make the hole more challenging than indicated by the yardage, and, being close to the water makes the wind more of a factor.
It's a neat little hole.
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Tom,
Personally, I love the little par three at River Run. My poor father hated the golf course, but while my grandparents lived in the area I tried to drag him back every year we went down. It wasn't just for the one hole, but it was a terrifying little shot. One would think you should be able to stuff it from 75 yards, but 'twas not always the case here :)
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I would think these holes would really only work on courses in VERY windy climates that play fast/firm (see Postage Stamp) or on a private course that doesn't see much play, so you can have the 800 sq ft green you need to preserve some challenge.
Even that wouldn't be challenging enough for the stereotypical old guy who can't hit it like he used to but has a wedge game most of us would kill for. But I guess that's fair enough considering that every driveable par 4 and reachable par 5 is an advantage (well, in theory at least) for us younger long knockers.
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The 11th at SaddleCreek in Copperopolis. Its pretty short from the whites, less than 110 if memory serves me right. Its a tiny little undulated green surronded by a hazard on 2 sides with big willows growing in the pond. The hole plays downhill and even at such a short distance, the tee shot is very intimidating. Its only after you get down to the green that you realize there is a little more room than appears from the tee box .
Great little short par 3.
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I think these holes can be more fun with a large green with many shelves, fall-offs, and sections, ala #5 at Bandon Trails. That green may have 10-12 great pin locations. The one rounds I played there, it was located on the tiny little plateau in the green's center, about halfway between the lower front section, and the upper rear section. There was not more than an 8 ft. X 8 ft. level section around the hole that day....
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The Ranch in San Jose probably holds the record for shortest total par-3 yardage for the par-3's on its back nine. The course is listed at 6,747 from the tips.
The two par 3's on the back are listed at 119 and 143, but these yardages do not actually exist. The actual back-tee-to-middle-of-green yardages are 99 and 124; the 99 is not playable from beyond 95 due to that part of the teebox curving around an overhanging tree (!).
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andy what did you think of the 3rd hole at PM east?
racetrack, sorry, just saw this. It has been more than 20 years since I played at Pocono Manor. I'm afraid the 77 yarder is the only hole I remember well. Though I do recall going eagle-birdie on back-to-back par 5s on one of the courses, which was way cool for a 15 year old kid ;)
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#4 at Hanover CC in NH is 106 from the back edge of the back tee...course is about 6600
#7 at the Va-Jo-Wa GC in Maine is about 105 to a green smaller than my desk, over wetlands...course is about 6200
#17 at Paxon Hollow in PA has to be like 100, straight off a cliff, this hole probably plays 70 yards....course is what, 6100?
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The shortest I have played is at Brockway Golf Club in Lapel, Indiana. When I played it, the hole was only 67 yards in length. The green was basically flat with a small spine in the middle that split the green in half. There was a small bunker on the front left and the green was raised above its surrounds by about two feet, so if you missed the green it was a difficult chip up to the putting surface. The one time I played it none of that mattered as I hit my shot within six inches, the closest I've ever come to a hole-in-one. Since that time I believe they have changed the hole in some way from what I have heard because there isn't a hole of that length anymore on the course.
In general, the course was not anything to brag about, but each hole was rather unique on that little nine-hole course.