Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: JDoyle on December 19, 2002, 03:47:59 PM
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I was just reading a past thread from 12-4-01 titled The Best Front Nine in Golf. Among the worldclass courses that were suggested (RCD, Crystal Downs, NGLA, PV) was Yale, with the caveat that its condition greatly improve. I have a soft spot in my heart for Yale for several reasons. I am originally from Connecticut and would like to see more quality golf course there, Seth Raynor is my personal favorite course architect, and perhaps most importantly, I love the wild, non-Country Club, European flair of the course. The second shot on #3, #8 and #10 are awesome shot values. The strategy of the tee shot on the 4th. The world famous 9th with it's massive Baiarritz green; and the wild finish that #18 delivers.
Everyone I speak to about how "great" Yale is seems to laugh. They fire back about the poor conditioning. The phrase "dog-track" is thrown in my face. :'(
I have spoken to a friend who was the greens keeper there for a few few years ago. He said the big obstacle to upgrading the condition of the course was Yale University and their support of union labor. He tried to get the workers there pumped-up about returning this course to Top 100 status. What he got in return was non-complience and a total lack of interest in making a push for quality work, attention to detail and acheiving results. He moved on and works for another CT private club.
Yale has "great bones". Like the beautiful brownstone at the end of the block that one dreams of restoring to its original power and grace. While people search the country for great pieces of property for development (Bandon / Pac Dunes) and pay through the nose for land (Bayberry Land) we have a great course waiting to be re-discovered in New Haven.
Other great courses have disappreared over time. Lido comes to mind. I would hate to see that slowly happen to Yale.
How can we save this great golf course from those who have no idea what they have?
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JDoyle:
We know the people at Yale don't appreciate what they have and I can't offer any quick fix.
But, maybe if you could convince George Bahto to do a book just about Yale it would motivate the folks there to look after the place better.
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Get rid of the union and hire a quality superintendent that understands great architecture.
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Who owns and operates the course?
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WB-I think you can substitute the words "golf architect" for "superintendent" also.
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Forgive this possibly naive post, but where is the Yale alumni in all this.? I probably don't understand the current ownership structure. Is it a private, (equity or non-equity) club now? What is the organizational/corporate status.
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Up here in Canada, when we hear, "Yale," we think about history, greatness, and achievement. Funny, the same words come to mind when I think of Mr. Raynor's course there.
As RJ Daley points out above, it's amazing that some alumni haven't made a push to change things for the better.
What to do? Sounds like a complex situation...
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Dick Daley:
I know there are Yale alumni concerned about the situation, but labor relations at the university (not just the golf course)have been troubled for some time. It doesn't sound like the alumni can have much influence, unfortunately.
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I find it sad when any entity doesn't know what it has and kind of throws it away like it's nothing. I know here in my world this is prevalent in not only the courses design but also it's conditioning and pace of play policy. Litterally the best policy in the whole flippin country and they don't practice it anymore.
Brings new meaning to higher learning :P
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$2mm cap ex, a real maintanence buget and the help of Gil Hanse and/or George Bahto.
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we could all chip in towards the ca.$400,000 per year property taxes that the course pays, freeing up like amount for restoration.
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Brad: We could probably figure out how to fix Yale, too -- and we haven't spent even $1 million total on any of the other Macdonald and Raynor courses we've worked on to date.
We're not taking on any more consulting work, but I'd probably come out of retirement if the university could suck it up long enough to listen to a Cornell guy. I'm not holding my breath, though.
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Tom Doak- If you are serious, I would be very pleased to get you in touch with the person currently in charge of the so called "Restoration". G-d knows they need help and even George Bahto couldn't convince them a year ago. Maybe, given the absence of any new work this fall, they are reevaluating their future plans.
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Geoffrey,
Clearly Tom is too busy and he comes from the wrong school. You should keep looking.
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Duke went through a version of this a number of years ago. This has been discussed before on this site, but the Duke course was an RTJ course with both design and conditioning problems (severe!) A number of yrs. ago, Rees Jones, did a redesign for free (daughter was attending Duke) and the University rennovated the entire complex. I believe that the key was an Athletic Director who made it a priority and the private raising of the money to do it. UNC did much the same thing more recently, again all privately raised money.
The downside of this, in both cases, is that the courses are now very significantly more expensive, but it can be done.
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Geoffrey,
Can you invite Beineke to the January 11th meeting at Alpine ? It might be the right environment to get him motivated to rally the troops. Also feel free to have him replace me when Tom and Pat potentially come up next Spring.
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JDoyle,
There is good news and there is bad news ?
The good news would be if someone who clearly understands the magnificence of the asset, buys the golf course from Yale,
and undertakes the necessary work needed to restore and maintain it. Very few doubt that with those items addressed, Yale would be a top 25 golf course. A purchaser could reach an agreement with the University to perpetually accomodate students, faculty and alumni, keeping everybody happy. I hope this happens and happens soon, everyone would benefit, and the golf course would be returned to its rightful place, amongst the greats of the world.
The bad news is, the University really doesn't care about the golf course.
I believe YALE has the second largest endowment amongst US institutions, and that their investment policies have allowed them to make substantial gains, even in these last few, difficult years, SO, unfortunately, money isn't the issue.
They have plenty of it, enough to restore and maintain the golf course properly, if it was on their list of priorities, which obviously it isn't.
But, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
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Maybe an article written and published in an important golf magazine commenting on the wonderful restoration work done to the Yale Golf Course "as if it had been done", wouldn't that be a treat and it might get a few people thinking.
Tom, the $2mm was just a number out of the air, don't you build courses on great ground for that much? :) Design fee and irrigation aside.
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Money is the issue at Yale. Or more specifically, the priority of where the University spends its money. They have a huge amount of work to do on their buildings. There was an article in the NY Times Sunday magazine a few years back that discussed a "billion dollar infrastructure problem". Unfortunately the golf course is probably --and tragically-not high on the list of of projects.
That said, I finally got to play the course last year and it is an absolutely great course and it is in terrible shape. My father grew up in the neighborhood by the course and played it as a kid--I believe he knew the greenskeeper. He loved the place and had it in his top three along with Pine Valley and Winged Foot. His three comments I remember best are:
"It is in the middle of New Haven and you can't see a single house"
"Bobby Jones thought the par three on the back 9 ( 13 ? )was one of the best holes in america."
"Play the 18th from the back tees--no one even knows they are there."
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I've played Yale a couple of times, most recently a couple of years ago, and it is a thrill despite the chronically poor conditioning. Rather reminds me of the situation at Bethpage Black which, at least in the 70s when I played it, made Yale look like Augusta in terms of conditioning. Perhaps if the USGA could be persuaded to use Yale for, say, a Women's or Senior Open could funds be generated for an overhaul. Or does only the US Open make that kind of money?
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Does Yale have what it takes to host the US Open? Sounds like a great way for the USGA to lend a hand, ala Bethpage.
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Tommy 65:
Only the U.S. Open makes money. Even the Senior Open is a money loser and the Women's Open isn't even close.
Corporate tents and ad sales are really minimal at all events except the Big Show.