Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Steve_ Shaffer on June 28, 2005, 11:42:51 AM
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From the July issue of Travel+Leisure Golf. Here's the link to the article:
www.travelandleisure.com/tlgolf/invoke.cfm?page=1&objectid=ADCC57AB-140B-4348-829FB058E3801B23
Steve Wynn's Vegas Play (The Sequel)
Shadow Creek's mastermind deals another ace
by Joe Passov
...When asked in a rare one-on-one interview at his Las Vegas offices in April whether Wynn Las Vegas would rival such world-class golf resorts as Pebble Beach, the American Club and Bandon Dunes, Wynn thundered, "Yes! I sure hope so!" He added: "The property is worth $10 million to $15 million an acre. I've got a billion and a half dollars of real estate under that golf course. It better become a destination, or I'm gonna look like a jerk, and then goodbye golf course. It will be filled with buildings."
Indeed, even for one of the world's highest rollers, Wynn has made a big bet. Estimates place the golf course development costs alone at $22 million, and while it may not be quite the engineering marvel that was Shadow Creek, it most certainly qualifies as an oasis-in-the-desert act of magic. The course occupies one of America's most legendary blocks, bounded by the Strip (a.k.a. Las Vegas Boulevard), Sands Boulevard and Paradise and Desert Inn roads. Yet thanks to a man-made berm that extends around the perimeter of the property and is crowned with tall pines, passersby can get nary a glimpse of the holes. While playing the course, you can see the occasional local landmark, such as the Stratosphere needle, but mostly the feeling is of a self-contained, grand urban park...
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Here's an unbroken link (http://www.travelandleisure.com/tlgolf/invoke.cfm?page=2&objectid=ADCC57AB-140B-4348-829FB058E3801B23)
In designing his courses, Wynn has placed far more emphasis on, of all things, the play of light on the land. "Light is the single biggest asset that a designer has, whether you're a sculptor or a painter or a golf course architect," he says. At Wynn Las Vegas, he insisted that most of the holes run either north to south or south to north, perpendicular to both the morning and the afternoon sun. That way, says Wynn, "you create shadowing, which accentuates, deepens, heightens the natural sculpting and modeling of the earth that the architect does."
Any of the architects in the house want to discuss "light" as the most important asset in course design?
Certainly you need light to see what you're doing, but....
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In my opinion Wynn Las Vegas isn't anything special at all. I would like to know where all the 2.5 billion dollars went.
I stayed at Wynn opening night weekend. The service was horrible, it took 15 minutes to get a operator for room service. We got locked out of our room. We got charged for drinks from our mini bar that we didn't even drink. We tried to get into our mini bar but it wouldn't open.
On the counter in the rooms they have chips, etc. If one looks at the chips and decides they don't want them, the room is automatically charged if they are off their computer pedestal for more than 15 seconds.
The pool is nothing special at all. They have fake turf in some sections and fake silk plants on a trellis. The cocktails were around $13, I would pay that in Hawaii but don't expect to pay that in Las Vegas.
I counted only 4 golf carts on the golf course at 10am, I guess everybody realized what a dud that golf course really is.
I could go on and on, but I need to get some work done here in the office. Overall I wouldn't stay at that hotel again even if my room was comped.
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"It better become a destination, or I'm gonna look like a jerk, and then goodbye golf course. It will be filled with buildings."
...nuff said.
FBD.
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maybe we should start an over/under re when the course will be gone!
also heard about $12 beers and terrible service from friends who have gone there
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Trying to out-trump Trump??
??? ???
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Paul Thomas,
I say the course will be gone in two years.
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I'll bet you $10 on that
Cary
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a tepid review of the course in the GOLF World with M Campbell on the cover
I left it at home, but in it Fazio and Wynn -- and I'm 99% sure I got this right -- both say that shot values are overrated!!!
from my gut: it will be gone soemday soon unless they lower the price
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Any of the architects in the house want to discuss "light" as the most important asset in course design?
Certainly you need light to see what you're doing, but....
Scott,
I recall in Wynn's book about "Shadow Creek", he dwelled on "sun angles", as he called them, and how important they were to him. In particular, his concern for the bright sunlight of the desert.
JJ
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Remember that unlike most golf courses this one does not have to pay for itself to be a success. With a $1.5B land value it really can't be a success just on green fees alone. If this course makes a few whales and other large bettors happy and makes then choose Wynn over other options in Vegas, then it IS paying for itself.
It's not the greens fee paying crowd that's going to make this course successful. Even if they charged $1,000 a round and got 100 rounds a day for 365 days a year, that is only a gross revenue of only $36,500,000. That's an outrageous estimate, but would give about a 2.5% return on the $1.5B piece of land! And thats if they own the land outright and not considering operating expenses!
It's whether this course can help attract the whales that will make Wynn GC successful. Thats where the casinos make most of their profits.
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I was out there in May and the tee sheet was full, so I am thinking that they are doing okay for now. I know for almost sure that the course will be torn up inside a decaded. The land is just too valuable for it to stay a golf course. You will see Wynn building one off site somewhere that will rival his previous two.
Now that being said, I think its funny some of the negative comments about the course form people that haven't played it.
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I believe Wynn is or is trying to buy the Las Vegas County Club behind the Las Vegas Hilton and redue the entire facility.
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There are many high rise condos planned near The Strip. If they are a success, Wynn GC may not make to 10 years.
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Wynn Golf Club won't make it 2-3 years. The high rise condo phase has over saturated the market and it will soon come to a hault. Currently I think there are plans for about 40-50 condo projects, and only about 15 have been approved.
Even if money grew on trees there is no way in hell that I would purchase a condo here in Vegas at the prices they are charging.
Palms Place:
600 sq.ft. studio $600,000
The Residences At MGM:
600 sq. ft. $450,000
Panorama:
$600,000 and up
Overall the condo pricing goes from about $450,000-$3,000,000. The square footage goes from 600-3,000
Cheers,
John
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Paul Thomas,
I say the course will be gone in two years.
You're off by 12 years.
Wynn Resorts (http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/WYNN)[/size][/font] plans to start construction as early as December on the first phase of its $1.5 billion Paradise Park, creating a white sand lagoon waterfront featuring attractions in Las Vegas, the company said Tuesday.
[/size]"We've got all these great ideas that are going into this lagoon and this beach front property," said Chairman and CEO Steve Wynn during the resort giant's first-quarter earnings call.[/color]
[/size]The new park was first disclosed last year at the Analyst Day event but Wynn said Tuesday on the call the company's board of directors had now approved the project and indicated construction will start in six or seven months.[/color]
[/size]Wynn laid out the first phase of the plan, which includes building a lagoon, boardwalk, new convention space and food services. That said, the company hasn't indicated just how many phases of the park development there will ultimately be.[/color]
[/size]Paradise Park would be located on a nearly 130-acre golf course property owned by the company and adjacent to Wynn's existing casino resort in the famed gambling city[/color]
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I stayed at the Wynn a couple of weeks ago and asked the folks in the golf shop when they are planning to close the course and they told me they are not booking golf beyond August. Crazy to think it's going to be gone. I only played it once and really enjoyed it but love looking down at it from either of the towers.
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The lack of variety was painful. One par 4 under 400 yards (398) is terrible. Overly manicured with really slow greens. The old Desert Inn blew the Wynn away. Good riddance.
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Does anyone know the latest on the Wynn GC now that Mr. Wynn is no longer with the company? Is it gone for sure now? Are they still moving forward with the new development of the lagoon/theme park and new hotel? Has anyone seen the site of the golf course recently - whether from the ground or from up in the hotel? what's going on there- e.g. is it still being maintained as a golf course/under construction etc?
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There are many high rise condos planned near The Strip. If they are a success, Wynn GC may not make to 10 years.
Steve you were very close!
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Does anyone know the latest on the Wynn GC now that Mr. Wynn is no longer with the company? Is it gone for sure now? Are they still moving forward with the new development of the lagoon/theme park and new hotel? Has anyone seen the site of the golf course recently - whether from the ground or from up in the hotel? what's going on there- e.g. is it still being maintained as a golf course/under construction etc?
Bulldozers were at work there in January. Not an operating golf course anymore.