Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Brian Phillips on February 06, 2003, 04:11:16 AM
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Seeing as Scott doesn't have time to post AOTD at the moment maybe we can have a bit of fun with some pics that you may or may not recognise.
Here is a typical links course in Scotland. It is one of the oldest in Scotland. In my opinion of the great par 3s.
Par 3 - 170 yards
(http://home.c2i.net/pgd/mystery/mysterypic1.jpg)
Brian Phillips
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FYI, the picture is not showing up :'(
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No picture,
It is showing up on my browser. ???
Brian.
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Not showing up in mine either, not even the little x.
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How about now? It was showing up in Opera browser but not my Explorer but I think Ihave fixed it now.
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It's showing up now.
No idea to the course, but the hole itself looks is as wrinkled as a bloodhound's forehead.
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I'm pretty sure I know what it is, but I'll wait for the guesses of some of the foreign-based posters before I log it in here...
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Darren,
If you didn't know it I would be dissappointed!!
BP
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I know it. A super hole at the bottom of the course. The hole preceding it is pretty good too.
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Did you see Archie out there with his dog? Good views to the capital city on clear days?
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Is there a golf museum right by the first tee?
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Better watch out, there may be a panzer division coming up the beach behind you!
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A birdie there from six inches and dinner at La Potiniere afterwards made for a perfect day.
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North Berwick.
After the par-5.
The 10th?
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Here is another photo of the hole which might help:
(http://home.c2i.net/pgd/mystery/mysterypic2.jpg)
Golf has been played here for over 300 years. As far back as 1650 the Weavers of Aberlady played the Weavers of Dirleton on 'Auld Hansel Monday' - which was the first Monday of the New Year. There were only 7 holes up until 1850. In 1850 the gutta ball was invented and Golf and G*****e began to expand.
Tony,
So close yet so far...wrong town my friend.
Brian.
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Gullane No. 1.
Hole no. 13 or 14?
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BCrosby,
Spot on!
As Paul mentioned the hole before was a gem of a hole being a Par 5 off the whites.
This hole is called Hole Across.
If anyone visits North Berwick and does not play Gullane No.1 they have passed up on a great course.
Brian Phillips
I'll see what I can dig out of the picture library in the next few days.
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Brian -
I'm not sure I share the enthusiasm you and many others have for Gullane. Certainly the views over the tank traps are unequalled. And there are some wonderful holes, especially in the middle of the course. But the first three holes I thught were uninspiring. The 17th is at best mediocre (downhill off the tee, wedge to the green); not much going on in the fairway, as I recall.
Would love to hear different views, but after an afternoon at N. Berwick, a morning at Muirfield, my follow-on round at Gullane was a disappointment. Not in the same league as the other two.
Bob
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Bob - funny you should mention that, because my first impression of Gullane No. 1 vs. Muirfield was that the former might possibly be better. Gullane Hill makes its topography much more varied; I strongly disagree with your assessments of #2 and #17, both of which make very good use of the hill IMHO. (In particular, both require very precise drives when the rough is high and the wind is up.) I think my first impression was quite possibly misleading, but still...I think Muirfield gets way too many points for exclusivity and ambience when it comes to frankly assessing the merits of its architecture.
Cheers,
Darren
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Bob,
I, like you did not like the 1st or the 2nd. That 2nd fw is very tight!!
However, the 17th is a fun hole!! We played Carnoustie, Kingsbarns and The Eden in the same couple of weeks and rate Gullane No.1 above all of them for natural links golf.
I find it a bit hard that you compare it with North Berwick...my favourite links course in the world and Muirfield the favourite of many on the panel for Golf World.
That's tough competition!!
Darren,
Do ever go to bed?
Brian.
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While I agree that it is not in the same class as North Berwick, and I also agree that #1 and # 2 are a bit odd, I would encourage anyone to play Gullane #1 if they are in that part of Scotland.
I would also suggest you play Gullane #2. While it is very uneven, it has some wonderful holes--particularly those on the other side of the hill. And you will most likely be one of the few people on the course.
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I want to check out Gullane #3, looks interesting.
Gullane #1 has many fine holes-super set of 3s- but I can't see it's close to Muirfield's class. Just doesn't have nearly as interesting hazard placement (not much placement needed off the tee), nor green complexes. With the level changes, I find the course similar to Porthcawl and Sligo, although I prefer either of those two.
Of all the paintings by Rountree in Darwin's book, I think the 6th at Gullane is the most like its modern equivalent (apart from the sheep of course).
Longniddry is the one I really want to play in that area.
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I rate G#1 about equal to North Berwick (both 1* in my book). I'm sure there is an ambience element to Muirfield's lofty ranking, but I also think that if it were plonked down in Southampton, or Carmel, or Bandon or maybe even Mullen (never been there), it would more than hold its own with the current denizens of those locales.
I'm with Brian re: the 2nd and 17th at G#1. Both really thrilling holes that elegantly solve the Duke of York problem of having to march up the hill and then (eventually) march back again. I particularly love the 2nd shot to #2. To me, this is a real "bottle" hole. The drive into the ether at 17 is also a great experience. 1 and 18 are flat and mediocre, but so are the equivalent holes on TOC.
Paul T
#3 is worth playing. The first thought that came to my mind when you mentioned it was.....Painswick!
PS--I am told that Gullane #4 (also known as Muirfield #2 or Luffness) is also worth playing if you are in the area.
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It's always a design challenge to get a course to transition from one elevation to another. I don't think Gullane's nos. 2 or 17 do a particularly imgainative job of dealing with the issue. At least for a course with a lofty reputation. Both holes make the change in levels in a solid, workmanlike manner. But no more than that, imho.
It can be done well. I think nos. 2,9,10 and 18 at ANGC deal wonderfully with the challenge of extreme changes in elevation. There are lots of other examples.
Bob
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Brian, I don't know it but would somewhere on Gullane hill be a close guess?
Paul
Seeing as Scott doesn't have time to post AOTD at the moment maybe we can have a bit of fun with some pics that you may or may not recognise.
Here is a typical links course in Scotland. It is one of the oldest in Scotland. In my opinion of the great par 3s.
Par 3 - 170 yards
(http://home.c2i.net/pgd/mystery/mysterypic1.jpg)
Brian Phillips
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Bob,
I find it difficult to see how a manmade course such as ANGC (no matter how well it was routed) can be compared with that of a course that evolved from 1650!
The members realised (IMHO) that they had to get over the hill probably from town so that's how they did it. Basic brutal GCA!!
Isn't it unfair to compare ANGC with Gullane?
Gullane is just a wonderful, rough and ready links course, which difficult yet fun to play. No more no less.
Brian.
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Brian -
I don't mean to single out Gullane. One of the things that struck me about the courses I played in Scotland last summer was how inartfully some of them handle elevation changes.
For example, I think the weakest holes at Dornoch (nos. 7 and 16) both happen to involve elevation changes. Ditto for Cruden Bay; nos. 9 and 10 are not up to the rest of the holes on that wonderful course. Gullane fits the same pattern.
It's interesting to note that Kingsbarns is built on the side of a large hill, but the course is routed so that the only time you move up or down its pronounced slope is between greens and tees. No hole climbs or descends the hill. Well, maybe the tee shot on no. 18 does. But you take my point.
As to my ANGC comparison, I think it apt. Though Gullane is some 400 years older, both were designed by the hand of man. Someone located tees, greens and fairway centerlines on both courses. Weighing the relative merits of those design decisions is not, I think, improper.
Bob