Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Jimmy Muratt on February 15, 2003, 06:58:30 PM
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What are everyone's opinions of Pete Dye Golf Club in West Virginia? How do you think it compares to some of his best work which includes The Golf Club in Ohio, The Ocean Course at Kiawah, Whistling Straits and TPC Sawgrass?
It looks like it sits on a tremendous piece of property and incorporates a great variety of holes requiring the player to work the ball and come up with a definite strategy.
I read in Tom Doak's Confidential Guide that he thought it was one of Pete's best designs and he gave it a 7.
Your thoughts?
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I think this course is definitely in Pete's top 3.........The Golf Club is #1 without a doubt...then you can debate TOC, TPC or Whistling Straits........
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I put it at least third, behind The Golf Club (probably his #1 unanimously) and TPC, because of the amazing engineering and because of the boldness of the design for the time. The Pete Dye Club also set a standard for reclaiming a played out industrial site. It may be one of the prettiest places I've ever played during foliage season. There is the issue with the 17th green, unless that's been addressed since I was there, whiv=ch has been a few years.
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It amazes me every time I hear people detract from PDGC because of the 17th green. Personally, I don't understand the "issue". It effectively plays as the smallest green on the course when you consider the cupable/pinnable area. Personally, I have no problem with that since (at least for good players) they are going to be throwing a wedge of some sort in there. The great aspect to me is that it effects you mentally leading up to it. Can I get my ball far enough down the fairway to go at it with a sand wedge? Can I get to a good yardage? If I get too close to the green I have no chance!!! It forces you to think from the tee, and it requires that you execute a shot with a short club at a critical time in a match. If you don't execute, you may still have some work left to make bogey.
I personally love glancing over at that green as I leave 15, thinking about how I might be able to attack that hole. Plus, I know that I have an advantage over my opponent if they don't think that it's fair. I think for most people, they need to disregard the hole location and just try to get the ball on the middle of the green. If you can do that, you'll never have more than a 20 footer for birdie.
Just my two cents.
Sobe
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JimmVa--Played the Pete Dye Club during its' opening year(10+-yrs/construction) ,with membership aspirations,and discovered a creative conversion of this strip mine area.The novel Shelter(mine shaft)house was imaginative and recently excitingly, reproduced with a Sod bank at Doonbeg(Norman).The finish work/details were somewhat lacking(New Course?),but remember the course as Good,somewhat a caricature, but just difficult/hard.The Golf Club(6,900/MbsT)has such a harmonious flow to a good(not great) land parcel with a continuous stream of very playable Golf holes.Kiawah would be #2, though very difficult, so Thrilling!If you are a Pete Dye Zealot,Desciple consider visiting Urbana CC(Oh); a simple,old (9) Hole'r converted to (18) a few years ago.The designer's wife of the original(9) persuaded her grandson,P.B., to donate the addition with a 'Minamalist' design.The Old(9),with flat,heart shaped greens w/abrupt bunkering is so reminiscent within Pete's work.
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I agree with everyone else here..Probably a Dye top 3 design..I have no idea how this course is not on GD top 100 list..They must be smoking crack over there!! :o This course is also without a doubt more than a 7 on the Doak scale.
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I would never consider myself a disciple of Pete Dye. However, I do believe that Pete Dye Golf Club is truly one of the best courses in the Country. I too have a problem with the 17th green. My biggest issue with it is that it does not fit in with the rest of the course. It is like a giant pimple on JLo's ass. You can look past it but you would prefer a little cosmetic work. I did not play Pete Dye Golf Club in 2002, but will make every effort to return in 2003. ;D
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Relative to his other works, the weaknesses of the Pete Dye Golf Club are:
1) weak set of one shotters.
2) weak set of short two shotters
3) weak finish, with 15-17 undermining the great 18th
On the positive side, few courses have such thrilling holes as the 2nd, 5th, 8th, and 18th and holes like the 9th and 14th (!)are among his best anywhere.
Still, those weaknesses help account for why it appears lower in some of the rankings than others might hope and why I wouldn't put it among his top 7 designs.
Cheers,
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I have seen everyone here listing most of Pete's best, but where does The Honors fall in the list?
Its one shotters are solid, but not entirely spectacular; but I think that was one of Jack Lupton's goals in the development of The Honors: to create a course that doesn't come across as over the top or visually "busy", but is solid from start to finish nonetheless.
It has a spectacular short par fours in the 9th and 12th.
I really never cared for the seventh, though.
I really like the second, fourth, fifth and sixth on the front and the stretch of 11 through 15 on the back.
And of course the texture given to the course by David Stone really adds to the feel and aura of the course.
Keith.
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God, I can't believe I forgot Honors Course.......having been a member of a Georgia Dye course I have played at Honors and love it. And what about Long Cove......another great track.....especially after the latest update. The Golf Club still #1 with Honors/TOC/TPC/Long Cove all in the top 5..........you look at TGC WV/Blackwolf/Whistiling Straits and you have a great top ten. And that is not even taking into account Old Marsh, Oak Tree, Harbor Town, PGA West, Bulle Rock and Colleton River.....and what about Teeth of the Dog? The more you look at Dye's body of work the more he looks like the best current architect........over Fazio and other notables. Dye's top 5 is pretty tough to beat........
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Where would Crooked Stick fit into the mix for most of you?
I haven't seen anybody mention that one yet.
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Thanks for the additional courses' reminder.The Colloton River Course is an excellent course and very walker friendly.Long Cove should,also, be strongly considered.A local architect,Jack Kidwell(great gentleman/deceased), commented Pete as certainly the most creative.
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rpurd-great point.
I'd like to add The Wolf at Pauite Resort in LV...recently played it and was very impressed with the layout, etc...and inquire where (if at all) those more in the know would put it among Dye's work.
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Being a BIG Dye fan I was astonished at what I heard this past weekend down in S. Carolina. A very reliable source told me and other that Pete Dye Golf Club is having major money problems. Could this be true? I thought the owner was very well to do............it seems pretty reasonable to join. I heard going semi-private is a possibility. I hope it isn't the case......with Hawk's Ridge, Golf Club of Georgia and others having MAJOR money troubles....this is not good news.
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The only Pete Dye course that I like better than PDGC is his Whistling Straights.
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I heard going semi-private is a possibility. I hope it isn't the case......with Hawk's Ridge, Golf Club of Georgia and others having MAJOR money troubles....this is not good news.
Let me ask (respectfully): is there something inherently wrong in the public having easier access to a good/great course? I don't think so.
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There is nothing wrong with public access on a public course or for that matter on a private course in an outing or guest day. When a course is started privately and memberships are sold for tens of thousands of dollars, I feel for the members when the club has to let outsiders in for money's sake.