Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: cary lichtenstein on February 24, 2003, 06:38:58 PM
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Who do you think are the 4 best architects today for a flat Florida piece of property for an owner who wants to move lots of dirt and wants a dramatic great course?
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No one can move dirt like Fazio... Where is the project? Why the desire to stick to a Florida architect? What are the soils like...?
If you are looking for a Florida (or Southeastern familiar) based architect to move a bunch of dirt - I would have on the list of 4:
Fazio
Smyers
Weed
Palmer
Not that they are the best, they just fit your Florida/dirt criteria...
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Hey, no one can move dirt like Tom Doak. The vast amount they shoved around in Texas should qualify them for Florida.
Question is, if you get sites like PD or some of that NZ property, what would drive you to Fla. Money??
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Gary Koch, Steve Smyers, Ron Garl, Kurt Sandness, Mike Dasher.
Possibly even Dave Harman.
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After playing Fazio's Emerald Dunes last year where a LOT of dirt was moved, I'd list Steve Smyers as a guy who will move a lot of dirt and make it look like not much was moved at all. Pretty seamless stuff.
I'd also nominate Kelly Blake Moran, who would try to find a creative way to NOT move a lot of dirt. The work he did with and without Von Hagge at Boca Rio is some superbly enticing architecture.
Finally, Bobby Weed is a wonderfully creative architect who is not mentioned enough on this DG.
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John Conley,
I played Mike Dasher's Huntingdon Reserve and although I liked the openness and the layout in general I thought his use of 4 or 5 Biarritz style greens was a little much. What do you think?
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Highlands Reserve was Dash's first solo course after leaving Art Hills. I think the mandate was for a "friendly" course and I'm guessing he decided he didn't want it to be too easy to score on!!
#1 is Biarritz style, but the over-the-top example is at the end of the round. WOW. I hate that green. I've only played there 2 or 3 times.
North Shore is a great example of his work on a site with more traditional goals. I'm guessing he could make a longer course and didn't need to trick up the greens. I think he'd do a great job on an area course if he had a large budget. We'll find out soon as he has one opening near Black Bear this summer!
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with proven results moving dirt and producing the dramatic
Dye
Fry
Silva
Nicklaus
Of course would love to see what C&C or Doak would do in the swamps.
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I think one has to consider Robert Von Hagge. While I haven't played any of his tracks in Florida (I don't think of Doral as one of his, although I know he did some restoration work there), I have played some of his Mexico designs. With the help of an exceptional piece of property he has created a masterpiece at Isla Navidad. He certainly has no trouble moving dirt and his work at the less than ideal property at Playacar is commendable.
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Ron Garl has done some great work around Vero Beach. Sandridge Dunes and Lakes (36 holes - Public), and Indian River, (18 holes - Private), are worth looking over.
Jimmy Fazio and Nick Price at Quail Valley are big on moving dirt. My guess, 8 million yards = 18 holes - Private.
Pete Dye at Johns Island, and Jim Fazio at Hawk's Nest are also great.
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I would add my name to the list of those suggesting Steve Smyers. He has been successful on low budgets moving little dirt (Southern Dunes in Haines City) and with larger budgets where more earth was moved (Olde Memorial in Tampa). He has also done very interesting work outside of Florida such as Wolf Run. Steve does a great job creating risk reward holes, creates attractive bunkering as part of the strategic plan, and builds challenging green complexes. He is also an interesting and articulate person who is worth talking to when decing how to proceed.