[Matt Schoolfield]

I'm just curious as to what different angles of doglegs can achieve. I haven't really thought about it too much, but it suddenly made me curious as to how one should determine what type of dogleg to design.

A 90º angle effectively stops all forward progress, a 45º angle allows players to try and cut the corner, whereas a very small angle simply act to favor a fade or draw. How does a sharp angle affect play differently than a slow curve?

Any thoughts? Just curious about how people here think about them when designing or playing at a high level.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Generally speaking, I like doglegs where the angle isn’t even a consideration.


What I mean by that is that as soon as you start thinking of the angle, it is probably because the hole has been designed for a target turning point; as opposed to a more classic offset sweeping dogleg.

[Phil Young]

Are there trees on the hole? Is the turn around body of water? Is there a large carry over a deep gully filled with all sorts of out-of-control growth? Is there a massive sea of sand that must be carried? Is there simply nothing but rough over which the fairway turns around? Isn't it not so much the angle but what is between the spot where the ball lands and the landing area or green being the location that one seeks to hit their next shot to that decides what that specific angle creating the dogleg achieved?

[Thomas Dai]

Wasn’t there a thread recently about angles no longer mattering?
Atb

[Pierre C]

Thread on angles.. ca. Feb. 2023.


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,71685.0.html

Wasn’t there a thread recently about angles no longer mattering?
Atb

[Simon Barrington]

From James Braid - "Advanced Golf" (1908) -

Some in the period and after, refer to Braid as the "inventor of the dog-leg" which is a bit of stretch (before others point that out!  )

But, Braid certainly was one of the first, if not the first, to explain the strategy behind them (& angles prescribed by them) in writing.

He innovated to use "diagonal bunkering" (which he introduced in "Advanced Golf" too) to create such dog-leg effects, even on holes that were ostensibly straight (in the playing corridor):-

"Everybody knows what are the distinguishing and excellent qualities of a good dog-legged hole.
The player has a carry to make from the tee over a hazard that runs at an angle to the straight line to the hole, and he can choose his own length of carry.
If he can drive far and will take risks, he goes over the farthest point-straightest for the hole; and if he makes a good shot he is much nearer to the hole than he would have been if he had taken the short carry, and ought then to be given a good or even easy chance of getting on to the green in comfort with his next stroke.
On the other hand, the short driver may take an easy carry, but he will then probably be out of range of the green.
The good qualities of this type of hazard are apparent, and they may easily be applied to made bunkers at straight holes."

[Jeff_Brauer]

My mentors used to say that there are only two times to avoid a sharp dogleg......one is where there are trees, and the other is where when there aren't.


I did find one good use for a near 90 degree dogleg.  If there is a pond the length of the driving zone, and a wide fw, playing safely costs you 30 yards on the approach, and I never put a hazard on the other side, just to keep them honest, as encouraging the safe play caused more penalty.


My mentors had designed a 90 degree dogleg with a pond just at the LZ.  It turned out it was shorter to lay up in the rough as the distance to the green was the same as chancing the pond with a full drive, which highlighted their point of view.

[Stewart Abramson]

I did find one good use for a near 90 degree dogleg.  If there is a pond the length of the driving zone, and a wide fw, playing safely costs you 30 yards on the approach, and I never put a hazard on the other side, just to keep them honest, as encouraging the safe play caused more penalty.

I played a hole a couple days ago that sounds similar to what you describe. It's #13 at the new "Monster" course at Resorts Catskills designed by Bryce Swanson & Rees Jones (f/k/a the Concord Monster).



Resorts Catskills New Monster #13 from middle tee


[/size]                                      Resorts Catskills New Monster #13 approach from left side of fairway                                        Resorts Catskills New Monster #13 approach from right side of fairway at 90* dogleg right[size=78%]

[Jeff_Brauer]

Stewart,


If I am reading those photos correctly, the blindness of that little ditch due to the swaying fw line is what made Pete Dye (and me....) design dogleg water holes with a long straight line pond edge.

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