[Tommy Williamsen]

Many guys who have played Point Hardy have commented on the severe uphill par four tenth. As a longtime (former) member of Ballyhack, it didn't bother me much. Number one there is similar. The PH design team is building an alternate hole. It looks to be a medium-length hole. When I was there yesterday (May 15) I could see where they were building it. It changes the hole dramatically. It is not nearly as uphill as the old hole. They plan to keep both greens in place for a while. They want to see how both play for members and that will determine which hole they will keep.


]This is the view from the tee. The existing hole is to the right, and the new hole is the gray gravel to the left
The landing area

Farther up the new fairway


The greensite near the tractor.


The hole will not be nearly as uphill as the existing hole. It will be interesting to see what happens there in the next few years.

[Charlie Goerges]

The current hole looks very severe, what is the reasoning that it was built in the first place instead of the new alternate hole?

[Alex Miller]

Tommy (and others who have played it),


From pictures it did seem the current 10th is severe, but perhaps just as much so the straightness and narrowness of the fairway as much as the uphill nature of it?


The hole is not long if I recall... I wonder if the new fairway and the width it brings will improve the existing hole with more of a bailout off the tee. Any thoughts?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Ten is 344 yards from the back tees and 324 from the regular tees. The fairway is terraced a bit, so balls don't roll back toward the tee. It is severely uphill, but I did not mind it, and it played okay. It would not be anyone's favorite hole, but it gets you to the top of the hill, so the rest of the nine does not have any severe slopes. The new hole, though, looks really good.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I know some of you have played PH. What did you think of ten?

[Wayne_Kozun]

I wasn't crazy about this hole when I played back in January.  In too many instances the ball rolls back a long way.  Here are the photos that I posted - it doesn't seem like they have done a ton in the last four months, although it looks like the have put down sand.  From this thread: https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,72673.msg1745190.htm


For those that have played here - what was the rough like when you got over the fairways.  When I played it was automatic lost ball.

[Jackson C]

Tommy and Wayne,
I was able to get around twice and in pretty benign conditions.
I didn’t take ten seriously because the club has already decided to change it dramatically.  It’s an acknowledgment the current ten doesn’t work/work well.  Personally, I agree it is almost unplayable, and even if you play two good shots, I doubt you would consider it a good or OK hole.
New hole it’s hard to tell the quality as it is still being built/shaped.  It has to be better I imagine.  And the bar is low, it just has to be decent.  One question will be how long and awkward the transition will be to eleven.

[Charlie Goerges]

Just wondering, why did they build this 10 originally instead of what will be the new version?

[Jackson C]

Routing.  11 starts above the hill.


To be more precise as it is relevant 11 is beyond the top of the hill, about another 100 yards further uphill from current 10 green.
From 11 to finish the routing/transitions are tight.

[Tommy Williamsen]

C&C built the tenth hole to access the rest of the back nine without building another uphill hole. It ιs a short walk to eleven from the tenth green. The new hole has an uphill tee shot, but the rest of the hole is relatively flat. A short uphill cart ride will get the player from the tenth green to the eleventh tee. The course is not very walkable, so the cart ride is no big deal.

[Charlie Goerges]

Is it a fair statement that it was a vain attempt to improve the walk on a course that many probably won't be walking?

[Wayne_Kozun]

C&C built the tenth hole to access the rest of the back nine without building another uphill hole. It ιs a short walk to eleven from the tenth green.

I didn't walk it, but it seemed to me that it isn't a short walk from the current 10th to the 11th and it is very uphill.  The route from the new 10th green to the 11th tee is going to be even longer and steeper.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Routing.  11 starts above the hill.


To be more precise as it is relevant 11 is beyond the top of the hill, about another 100 yards further uphill from current 10 green.
From 11 to finish the routing/transitions are tight.

And other than 1 & 10 you aren't really playing significantly uphill, but there are lots of downhill shots.  The uphill transitions are mainly in a cart.

[Michael Morandi]

I’m pretty familiar with the Caribbean, having sailed up and down the islands several times. When I heard that a course was going up on St Lucia I immediately assumed it would be a difficult walk and, while it would feature stunning views, the winds and forced carries would not be for me. I’d rather hike this topography than get frustrated trying to hit a little white ball. Golf courses don’t need to be everywhere.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I’m pretty familiar with the Caribbean, having sailed up and down the islands several times. When I heard that a course was going up on St Lucia I immediately assumed it would be a difficult walk and, while it would feature stunning views, the winds and forced carries would not be for me. I’d rather hike this topography than get frustrated trying to hit a little white ball. Golf courses don’t need to be everywhere.

Michael, all I can tell you is that my 78-year-old wife did not have any trouble negotiating the course or making the forced carries.

[Michael Morandi]

Good for your wife, Tommy. An older friend of mine struggled.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I thought that the course played very difficult with severe winds when I was there in January.  IMO the course/slope ratings were way too low at 71.0/132 for the Green tees - which is lower than the Blue tees my home club of Scarboro (71.2/135).
And the rough is beyond penal.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I thought that the course played very difficult with severe winds when I was there in January.  IMO the course/slope ratings were way too low at 71.0/132 for the Green tees - which is lower than the Blue tees my home club of Scarboro (71.2/135).
And the rough is beyond penal.

I agree for sure. I thought the course/slope were surprisingly low, even though there was considerable width off the tee.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I agree for sure. I thought the course/slope were surprisingly low, even though there was considerable width off the tee.

There is a lot of width but if you somehow missed the generous fairways, which I managed to do occasionally, then you were pretty much an automatic lost ball.  It isn't like a parkland course where you might be on an adjacent fairway or under some trees.  You are in this wispy 12" long grass that swallows balls.

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