[Rick Sides]

I Played Paxon Hollow for the first time yesterday. All i can say is , what a blast, . Under 6,000 yards, this course was a refreshing experience to play.  Each hole was unique and I used each club in my bag.  My friend and I left the course and both said we could play it every day . I wish more courses were like this.  Variety of par 3's, short par fours, elevation changes and variety of holes made this ideal.  Please go play this.

[MCirba]

Here hear!!

[David_Tepper]

Rick -

It never hurts to identify where a course is located when you start a thread like this. The U.S. is a BIG country. Being out here on the left coast, I am pretty sure I am not the only one who had never heard of this course before. At least let us know the state (PA) where the course is located.

http://www.paxonhollowgolf.com/

DT
 

[Joe Bausch]

Rick -

It never hurts to identify where a course is located when you start a thread like this. The U.S. is a BIG country. Being out here on the left coast, I am pretty sure I am not the only one who had never heard of this course before. At least let us know the state (PA) where the course is located.

http://www.paxonhollowgolf.com/

DT

"Paxon" is just outside of Philly.  Here is a photo-journal of the course that I'm quite proud of:


http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/PaxonHollow_2019/index.html

[mike_malone]

Paxon is fun. It’s on similar terrain as Aronimink, Merion, and Rolling Green. They all are on rolling land just outside of Philly.


 Dan Mailey has tended it with loving care for years. Some work by his buddy Jim Wagner of Hanse Design makes the bunkering a step above your average muni.

[Ryan Farrow]

A few shots from more than a few years back. Glad you enjoyed it, Jim Wagner spent some time out there over the years working to improve the course. More people should know about this one.

[John Emerson]

http://www2.cybergolf.com/sites/courses/template.asp?id=723&page=110328


Place is losing some holes to make way for a range.

[Chris Mavros]

http://www2.cybergolf.com/sites/courses/template.asp?id=723&page=110328


Place is losing some holes to make way for a range.

Hey John, the first three holes are being replaced/moved while the practice area is moved/expanded.  The course is utilizing a lot of existing land on property that was not in play. 

[MCirba]

It looks to be an interesting project by Tyler Rae.   The first three holes, while good, are not the most stellar holes on the course and the end result may be an overall improvement along with the revenue stream provided by a full driving range.

[Kyle Harris]

It looks to be an interesting project by Tyler Rae.   The first three holes, while good, are not the most stellar holes on the course and the end result may be an overall improvement along with the revenue stream provided by a full driving range.

Strong disagree here, Mike. The third hole is unique. Worthy of restoration/preservation. The fourth hole is the wedged in one. Restoring the original 2nd and 3rd is the real play here though probably an engineering challenge.


They say pace of play is a reason for the change. Not sure how opening with Par 5 - Par 3 is going to speed things up at all.


If it’s revenue, just say it.

[MCirba]

Kyle,


Agree the 4th is squeezed in and agree pace of play will not improve.  The 3rd may suffer from the fact that I've never played it well.    

[D_Malley]

Kyle,
I said that pace of play was one of several reasons for this project and by no means was it the only reason. We did initially have a few design ideas where the 2nd hole would not be a par 3 but they were not ideal. We currently use 12 minute intervals between our tee times and that is necessitated bc of the design of our current opening holes. Whether or not the new design will allow us to shorten that interval is TBD, maybe a par 5 opener will help spread out play better. We will study the situation when we open the new holes and do whatever proves to work best, even if that means we remain at 12 minute intervals.


And to your other point regarding revenue, projected revenue is a major consideration when deciding to make this type of investment. These are projections and there are no guarantees, but a project like this would never get off the ground unless the financials make some sort of sense. That should be obvious to anyone.


I'm interested in why you think restoring the old 2nd hole would be a better option, based on what i know about that hole it would be a nightmare on a busy public goilf course. not to mention that the old 2nd and 3rd greens are in a flood zone.

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle,
I said that pace of play was one of several reasons for this project and by no means was it the only reason. We did initially have a few design ideas where the 2nd hole would not be a par 3 but they were not ideal. We currently use 12 minute intervals between our tee times and that is necessitated bc of the design of our current opening holes. Whether or not the new design will allow us to shorten that interval is TBD, maybe a par 5 opener will help spread out play better. We will study the situation when we open the new holes and do whatever proves to work best, even if that means we remain at 12 minute intervals.


And to your other point regarding revenue, projected revenue is a major consideration when deciding to make this type of investment. These are projections and there are no guarantees, but a project like this would never get off the ground unless the financials make some sort of sense. That should be obvious to anyone.


I'm interested in why you think restoring the old 2nd hole would be a better option, based on what i know about that hole it would be a nightmare on a busy public goilf course. not to mention that the old 2nd and 3rd greens are in a flood zone.

Because Paxon Hollow might possibly be THE unique quirk-fest in American golf… the kind of quirk only found on Links courses but in the American parkland setting. Engineering issues aside it’s worth restoring from a museum-piece perspective. I’ll take the delays in pace of play for sure, with that. Pace of play can be fixed with better golf habits.

[MCirba]

Since we're getting into some discussion on holes that don't exist anymore from the original routing I thought it might be useful to post the original 27 hole diagram (only 18 were ever built, I'm pretty certain) that I just borrowed from the Bausch Collection on MyPhillyGolf.com

I'm sure I would have loved to have played it but suspect that some severe elevation changes and flood plain issues mentioned probably necessitated the re-routing.

[mike_malone]

Mike,
 I was told that two was a par three but not according to this.


Dan,


  Good luck. I’ll be there once it’s done.

[MCirba]

The original layout of the course including the aforementioned first 3 or 4 holes can be seen on the following two aerials, compliments of the Hagley Museum (DE) and their Dallin Aerial collection.   You can ZOOM way in on both photos.    *Note - The course was the original White Manor Country Club.


https://digital.hagley.org/70200_03361?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=4532062b0c648e969b51&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=0&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=0

https://digital.hagley.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A2013849/datastream/OBJ/view

[D_Malley]

the course was originally Paxon Hollow CC and before that was Brookline Square Club in havertown.
It was White Manor for about 10 years after WW2, i believe they leased it from the bank for this time frame.
http://paxonhollowgolf.com/-club-history


If we restored the old 2nd hole I would be fired and laughed out of the golf business.
i think Joe B. has a picture of the old 2nd green, he sent it to me but i can not find it.


it looks to me like the best way to play that hole (par4) would be a 7 iron off the tee


I would love to get some feedback on the new design by Tyler Rae
maybe someone could post the picture up here

[MCirba]

the course was originally Paxon Hollow CC and before that was Brookline Square Club in havertown.
It was White Manor for about 10 years after WW2, i believe they leased it from the bank for this time frame.


If we restored the old 2nd hole I would be fired and laughed out of the golf business.
i think Joe B. has a picture of the old 2nd green, he sent it to me but i can not find it.

Yes, I should have mentioned the multiple names, Dan.  Just didnt want to confuse folks who pulled it up and saw the name White Manor.


Next time I'm out there I'm going to take a walk down in that area.  Now you really have me intrigued.

[mike_malone]

Don’t want the great Dan Malley drummed out of the golf biz.

[D_Malley]

I would love to get some feedback on the new design by Tyler Rae maybe someone could post the picture up here.
never did figure out how to post a pic, happy to email it to someone

[MCirba]

Here you go, Dan!

[MCirba]

Dan, is the approach to #1 downhill and the 2nd hole quite a bit uphill?   

[Kyle Harris]

the course was originally Paxon Hollow CC and before that was Brookline Square Club in havertown.
It was White Manor for about 10 years after WW2, i believe they leased it from the bank for this time frame.
http://paxonhollowgolf.com/-club-history


If we restored the old 2nd hole I would be fired and laughed out of the golf business.
i think Joe B. has a picture of the old 2nd green, he sent it to me but i can not find it.


it looks to me like the best way to play that hole (par4) would be a 7 iron off the tee


I would love to get some feedback on the new design by Tyler Rae
maybe someone could post the picture up here

Didn’t happen to Jack Connelly when they rebuilt C-2 at Huntingdon Valley. Tillinghast even wrote about a “cart before the horse” hole. Also sounds like a potentially great way to give the shorter hitter an advantage over a longer hitter.


Wasn’t it Mayday Malone’s opinion that Paxon is a great course to play with a 4-iron off the tee?

[D_Malley]

the approach to #1 is downhill and the second hole is probably a little downhill.
the area between 1 green and 3 tee is severly uphill


I will try to post the topo map at the site where you got the picture above

[Kyle Harris]

Also, the original 2nd seems to share similarities to the current 5th at Clearwater Country Club.

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