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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
2019 YANK AWARDS
« on: December 03, 2019, 02:04:02 PM »
It has been another down year with 15 new courses played.  Truth be told I haven't enjoyed golf all that much, but that has everything to do with my quickly spiraling out of control game and nothing to do with the courses.  If anything, I am becoming more and more choosy about where I tee it up.  Still, four new plays made it into my Nifty 50 and none of them are great...so I am not overly picky.     

MOST SURPRISING NEW PLAY COURSE: Seahouses back 9 (club offers 9 hole rates).  The surprising thing is the back 9 is the new part of the course.  It is a great shame the front doesn't look at all enticing.  Still, a newish course hard on the sea which impresses...gotta love it. 
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66839.0.html

I think my runner-up is Wimereux.  The course has a load of good holes, but in a typical French way, has no identity! This course could be the posterboy for why aesthetics matter.
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67309.msg1609659.html#msg1609659


MOST DISAPPOINTING NEW PLAY COURSE: This is without question Touquet La Mer...enough said.


BEST NEW PLAY INLAND COURSE: Hardelot Les Pins is a very elegant design  highlighted by a few pure golf holes. 
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67303.msg1609518.html#msg1609518

The runner-up is a toss up between Isle of Purbeck and Hardelot Les Dunes.  Both are a slight cheat because they have obvious seaside qualities.  However, since the sea is never in sight, I will go with Hardelot...another modern design and an estate course to boot.  Regardless, this is a good course which is easily enjoyed while playing Les Pins. 
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67306.msg1609129.html#msg1609129


BEST NEW PLAY LINKS: The one course which jumps out is Castlerock Bann.  Being such a small footprint course, this must have felt and looked very strange when it was built in the 80s.  At the time, golf was all about spreading the wings of excess or in the case of GB&I just getting farmland converted as quick as possible.  I remain impressed the club would build the course, especially at that time.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67049.0.html


MOST SURPRISING SECOND (third or fourth!) PLAY COURSE: The more I get to know Alnmouth Village the more I am  impressed.  Yes, this is yet another 9 holes I have singled out for praise and I think the trend will continue!
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,65709.0.html

 
FAVOURITE NEW PLAY LINKS:  See Castlerock Bann


FAVOURITE NEW PLAY INLAND COURSE:  I have to go with the cheap and chipper Llandrindod Wells.  It may be easy to get down on this Welsh gem because Kington is just down the road.  All I can say is try to forget that and enjoy what is on offer....and bring your climbing boots  8)
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67344.0.html


BEST AFFORDABLE COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: By affordable I mean under £40 (~$50) and once again Kington is king.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30926.0.html


BEST MODERATELY PRICED COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: By moderate I mean between £40 and £55 (~$70) and no member invitation, deals or other special circumstances involved. Goswick just pips Reigate.  I think in the coming years Goswick with more attention via social media, will become better known and appreciated. 
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,64104.0.html


BEST COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: Without question it is Deal.  How Deal fails to properly dent rankings is a mystery I don't seem able to solve. 
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44965.msg982124.html#msg982124


FAVOURITE COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: Kington remains top of the heap.  Hopefully the 2020 Pests will gain some insight as to why I love Kington.


I would like to read about your 2019 list! 

Happy Hockey
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 11:23:30 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2019, 03:38:27 PM »
Glad to see your mentioning of The Bann at Castlerock and Llandrindod Wells, two courses I’ve been keen on for quite some time. In particular, the game of golf would be a better place if there were more courses like The Bann.
As to places I’ve especially enjoyed this year then a return to Welshpool, which I first played far to many years ago to remember, was a highlight as were some dry rounds at RStD-Harlech, now with splendid revised bunkering, plus a couple of rounds at the ‘new’ Hotchkin course at Woodhall Spa. I say ‘new’ due to the very impressive work done there by TD and his Renaissance Golf team. I will also mention Beau Desert, much improved the last couple of years by tree and vegetation clearance, although I suggest more of same is still needed.
‘Best’ courses played this year? Marmite time .... Westward Ho! and Minchinhampton Old naturally! :) :)
Atb
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 03:41:39 PM by Thomas Dai »

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2019, 07:31:03 PM »
Best New Play: The Loop. Either way. Left to Right. Right to Left. Inside out. Upside down. My cup of tea.


Best Repeat Play: Bay Harbor. I love this course. Haven't played the Preserve in two visits, but did get to photography it this time.


Continues To Disappoint: The Heather (fka The Heater). Drive zones choked with trees. Every green has the same bunker scheme. Carry or die philosophy. Blech.


2nd-Best New Play: South Course-Arcadia Bluffs. Man, did Fry-Straka nail this one. Big and brawny, on a Golden-Age scale. Tremendous bunkers. Big like Yale is big. Big like NGLA is big. I like it more than the original course. Would play it 7-3 over original course.


2nd-Best Repeat Play: Old Course-Arcadia Bluffs. They've made improvements since I was there, ten years ago. Still has great vistas. Only problem was, sloooooowwwww play.


Can you tell I was in Michigan?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 10:25:42 PM by Ronald Montesano »
Coming in August 2023
~Manakiki
~OSU Scarlet
~OSU Grey
~NCR South
~Springfield
~Columbus
~Lake Forest (OH)
~Sleepy Hollow (OH)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2019, 09:49:41 PM »

The Heater. Drive zones choked with trees. Every green has the same bunker scheme. Carry or die philosophy. Blech.


Can you tell I was in Michigan?


Was this a typo for the Heather course at Boyne Highlands, or is there really a course named The Heater?


I honestly don't know.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2019, 09:50:43 PM »
Sean:


So the Simpson course at Hardelot is "The Pines" and the newer one is "The Dunes" ?  I would have guessed it was the other way around.  I don't think the new one was there when I was there in 1985.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2019, 10:26:17 PM »
R.I.P. The Heater

Typo corrected.
Coming in August 2023
~Manakiki
~OSU Scarlet
~OSU Grey
~NCR South
~Springfield
~Columbus
~Lake Forest (OH)
~Sleepy Hollow (OH)

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2019, 04:41:45 AM »
Sean:

So the Simpson course at Hardelot is "The Pines" and the newer one is "The Dunes" ?  I would have guessed it was the other way around.  I don't think the new one was there when I was there in 1985.

Tom

I don't think Les Dunes was built until 1991, probably as a planned housing estate.  There is a more up and down nature to Les Dunes which makes it easy to imagine that back in the day this was rough duneland. Both courses are pretty close to the ocean.  Les Pins also has houses, but I think they were built later.

Happy Hockey
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2019, 06:30:19 AM »
Sean,
Interesting diary for the year.

MOST SURPRISING NEW PLAY COURSE: Cape Wickham - I didn't prep a lot for my Australia trip and had never played there previously.  We had a great lineup and I was blown away by the beauty there, but also the care in making it playable with the windy conditions. Ocean Dunes was a disappointment by contrast by in a similar location, but too high of overgrown fescue/native vegetation took away from our enjoyment, needs more width.

MOST DISAPPOINTING NEW PLAY COURSE: European Club - sorry, combining blind shots with terrible conditions caused me to think this place to be less penal, only having 3-4 forecaddies to look for wayward shots would have salvaged this.  I respect Mr. Ruddy's creation as it is his own, but I didn't feel there were many scorable holes where I could breath in the round.  I'm a bogey golfer and we played from the appropriate tee, but just couldn't come up for air.

BEST NEW PLAY INLAND COURSE: Ganton - while I know it's reputation for bunkering is legendary, I really like the subtle elevation changes just enough to hide what is next, for example on hole 1 slightly uphill. Wonderful dogleg holes, like 18 where you can't just bang driver.

BEST NEW PLAY LINKS: Royal St. Georges - I think this is the best links I have played and enjoy the bad kicks and randomness of a good shot perhaps not getting rewarded.  Very difficult course with movement in the greens I didn't see continuously. Like the 2 ball philosophy employed here and the very loosen your belt lunch buffet.

MOST SURPRISING SECOND (third or fourth!) PLAY COURSE:  Chicago GC - Never tire of this place, as being from the area you respect it as the iconic course in the region. Of course the template holes are done very well here and square greens give it character.  We were the one of two foursomes to play this day, a shame they have such a small membership and get very little play for a real iconic course.

FAVOURITE NEW PLAY LINKS:  Royal Cinque Ports - this course's back 9 is fierce we all know, but I appreciate how it warms up with hole 1 and then loops the opposite direction as you get a feel for the wind right away and the impact it will have on the day. The membership is welcoming and had a wonderful 2 days there, would like to go back on a nice August / September day where it maybe playing harder and faster.

FAVOURITE NEW PLAY INLAND COURSE:  Royal Worlington & Newmarket - Yes it is only 9 holes but a splendid layout which have doglegs, a long and medium par 3's and some quirk (really like 9 hitting across the road
).

BEST AFFORDABLE COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: Kankakee Elks - mom is from the area and sister and her family live there, have played there many times and for the value ($30 bucks) you can have a great time. More so for me as I have family connection to the area. Plus we actually used to go to the Kankakee Elks Lodge for dinner's which were great as my grandfather was a member for decades before his passing at 98years old.

BEST COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: Sunningdale (Old) - hard to top this parkland course and would be proud to have this as a daily course to play. Conditions are fabulous yes, but they don't allow the trees to encroach as much as other courses and has a mix of scoreable holes 9th and hard 5th/10th.

FAVOURITE COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: Fishers Island - it was my first time and hopefully not my last. Did a charity round and enjoyed it with dad/brother and a fabulous host. Perfect July day and from the boat ride over to the return it was total enjoyment of fresh air, water views, great conditioning and iconic Raynor architecture. Hard to top.

running up: Bel Air - first time after the renovation and it is much improved over the previous version. More open and less gimmicky, still maintaining much of the charm for a very harsh setting for golf. Par 3 tenth is still as hard it always was and 18 a memorable finish with the bridge in the background.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 12:07:16 PM by Jeff Schley »
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2019, 11:56:12 AM »
Sean,

I always look forward to your end of the year awards thread, well done!.

I do have a question about 4 of your awards.  I saw you have "Best New Play Inland" and "Favorite New Play Inland", (and same for the Links category). I noticed that you and Jeff have two different courses for at least one of these category pairs.

Given all the recent threads on which criteria people use to evaluate courses, it got me thinking wouldn't "Favorite" be the same as what you consider "Best"?  Or is this a case of trying to figure out what the masses would like and calling that the "Best", even if your own personal preferences leads to a different "Favorite"?

Thanks!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2019, 12:33:41 PM »
Kalen

Best for me at least, focuses solely on the courses.  That has never been the be all of why I play the game and why I choose to play where I do.  Therefore, I prefer to focus more on favourite courses.  I accept that most of these courses aren't as good as the best, but I am fine with that so long as I feel I am getting to play courses of quality and distinction, usually at prices that make far more sense than what it costs to play the best courses.  I offer a few best categories so folks can have some idea of where I am coming from. That said, I fully understand if folks don't distinguish between best and favourite, but for me they have never been the same. 

Happy Hockey
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2019, 02:27:05 PM »
Sean,

That makes perfect sense.  When I look back at all the best courses I've played, the chance of playing them again are likely slim at best due to a variety of reasons.  I guess a favorite is better served when you know its one you will likely play multiple times. Ideally the best and favorite would be one in the same, but I'm not one of the fortunate few who can claim that.  ;)

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2019, 07:30:20 PM »
   
MOST SURPRISING NEW PLAY COURSE: Buckie Strathlene-not a lot of info on this course-multiple good holes(wondeful opening stretch 1-7), many scenic seaside holes and a cool use  of one very distinct hill in the middle of property very cramped (think helmets) last 4 holes but excellent stretch with one of the better short par 4s I've played at 17.

I think my runner-up is Spey Bay-again minimal info-deserted at 2 pm on a beautiful cloudless Saturday afternoon-some cool very natural land rustic inks holes. The course I most want to return to.


MOST DISAPPOINTING NEW PLAY COURSE:I'm rarely disappointed but if pressed? Peterhead, which was a better course than Buckpool (the least favorite of my Scotland trip though I shot 69)but I had higher hopes for Peterhead.


BEST NEW PLAY INLAND COURSE:Ferndown

The runner-up is Hankley Common


BEST NEW PLAY LINKS:I see no distinction between "best" and favorite, but playing along I'll take West Lancashire by a nose over Fraserburgh though I prefer Frserburgh

MOST SURPRISING SECOND (third or fourth!) PLAY COURSE: St. Anne's Old Links-Had played it 6 years ago and while I enjoyed, didn't see the subtlties. In the wind for 3 days and in competition it showed its teeth and variety.

 
FAVOURITE NEW PLAY LINKS:Fraserburgh


FAVOURITE NEW PLAY INLAND COURSE: Ferndown-would perhaps be Royal Ashdown Forest but it was a muddy slog


BEST AFFORDABLE COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: By affordable I mean under £40:Probably Seoule Park domestically(I paid $12). Overseas Covesea -9 holes-(15 pounds) or Spey Bay(25 pounds weekends), although Coveseas was the only course I paid for on the trip -in an honor box)


BEST MODERATELY PRICED COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: Hayling or Moray Old


BEST COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: Palmetto(
(although according to GOLF Magazine Muirfiled Village was the only World Top 100 course I played in calandar 2019(played Ohoopee in December 2018) -though I walked Rivierra,TPC,ANGC and Bethpage at their respective Tour events and had non playing events at Shinnecock, Sleepy Hollow and Pinehurst)


FAVOURITE COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: Augusta CC ( I just don't play Palmetto very well despite hundreds of attempts...)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 08:27:01 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2019, 08:54:17 PM »
My year based on your format, with the caveat that I am talking about courses I saw, which I didn't necessarily play:


MOST SURPRISING NEW COURSE: Lofoten Links, in Norway.  When I came back in from walking it my first day, my wife asked what I thought of it, and I said it might be the most beautiful course I've ever seen.  My wife, more than anyone in the world, knows that I do not say shit like that lightly.  It's too narrow in many spots, and on some holes that's okay, but there are way too many of them.  But I went all that way expecting it to be too narrow and unplayable, and I was blown away by how beautiful it is up there.


I think my runner-up is Kidjaberg, in Iceland.  It sits a few miles off the road up to Geysir National Park; I stumbled upon it totally by accident while looking on Google Earth, though there was way more topography than I thought.  Best course in Iceland, in my view, yet totally overlooked even by their tourist board that promotes golf in Iceland.

MOST DISAPPOINTING NEW PLAY COURSE: This was without question Ile Aux Cerfs, the Bernhard Langer design on an island in Mauritius.  The island is like the Garden of Eden.  The golf course is ridiculously narrow and you will lose a dozen balls playing it.  It's the course that lures people to Mauritius -- which is one of the most beautiful places I've been -- but it's also the least fun course to play I saw on Mauritius.

BEST NEW PLAY INLAND COURSE:  The Other Course @ Scottsdale National, which I played with one of the co-architects, David Kahn.  Amazing work on a very difficult site, half of which had previous been graded for residential development.  Their creative solutions for dealing with the washes that cross the holes are beautiful and original, making this different than other desert courses, and more walkable and playable at the same time.
The runner-up is Trinity Forest ... though I didn't play it.  I was impressed with how far the ball could run away from a green if you missed the green, and astounded by how many greens had a severe contour in front, so that you couldn't run the ball onto the green unless you landed it way way short and got the line just right.

BEST NEW PLAY LINKS: Besides Lofoten, and our own work at The National in Australia, the one course which jumps out is La Moye. on Jersey, in the Channel Islands.  It's a links in the sky, 200 feet above the west coast of the island with dramatic views, but it definitely plays like a links.

MOST SURPRISING SECOND (third or fourth!) PLAY COURSE: I have been to Kilspindie a couple of times before, but I hadn't played it, preferring to go back to North Berwick or The Renaissance Club or Muirfield.  On a nice day, there are few nicer places to be than Kilspindie.  The first few holes along the bay are beautiful, and the procession of 280-yard and 340-yard holes in the middle are fun for both the low handicapper and the high handicapper. 

FAVOURITE NEW PLAY LINKS:  See Lofoten Links.  Runner-up would be Granville, the Harry Colt design in north-western France.  It was burnt toast in July, but there are lots of cool, gentle undulations and good green sites.

FAVOURITE NEW PLAY INLAND COURSE:  I have to go with Kidjaberg, even though I did not play it.

BEST AFFORDABLE COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR:  Well I only played 25-30 rounds of golf this year and I did not pay once, but I'd have to guess that the most affordable course I saw was the run-down but still beloved Makuyu Club, an hour north of Nairobi, Kenya.  The open-air clubhouse and three 3-hole loops made for the most social setting I've ever seen for golf.

BEST MODERATELY PRICED COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR:  I'm pretty sure Kidjaberg fits here.

BEST COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR:  The only 10's I played in 2019 were Crystal Downs and Muirfield

FAVOURITE COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR:  The most fun I had all year [apart from walking land for new designs] was playing at Kilspindie on the Monday of the Scottish Open.  Good company had a lot to do with it, but it's definitely a course I'd like to play again.  Same goes for our new course at The National -- and I'm looking forward to going back there in February 2020 for the Renaissance Cup.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 09:26:51 PM by Tom_Doak »

Peter Pallotta

Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2019, 09:06:15 PM »
Kalen -
I'm in your shoes.
But lately I've been thinking: for golfers like Sean and Jeff (and maybe me and you one day), if 'favourite' *isn't* also the 'best', then there's something very wrong with our (collective) definitions of 'best'.
Do you know what I mean?
I've spent years reading/reading about well-traveled golfers (many of them panelists) tying themselves in knots -- sometimes to 'fit' their views into whatever criteria is placed before them, sometimes to 'defend' a preference for course C over course A, when the latter is the media darling of the day, sometimes arguing among themselves about various Top whatever lists, and clearly having their favourites and yet not being able to 'rationalize' them -- and I've started to think that the 'best' aren't really, actually "The Best". It's the *favourites* that are the best.
You quoted The Matrix the other day, and it's a good metaphor. We've all taken the blue pill (me especially), and believe that there is a distinction between 'favourite' and 'best', and that both the distinction and 'the best' are *real*; but there must be at least a few golfers and gca aficionados out there (probably lurkers) who took the red pill, and now know the truth!
Peter
PS - I think I'm too scared to take the red pill. As the guy said in The Matrix, I know the steak is not real, but I love it! 
 
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 09:10:11 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2019, 09:29:52 PM »
Peter:


There are a million reasons to like a course, and many of them are fleeting . . . it wouldn't have been the same on a different day or in different company.  So using "favorite" as your sole barometer is a bit weak.


By the same token, I think people make rankings too complicated, mostly by modifying their opinions along the lines of what other people say they SHOULD think.  Setting specific criteria for what makes a great course is the wrong path.

Peter Pallotta

Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2019, 09:45:43 PM »
Tom -
you're almost certainly right if you're talking about me and the millions of average golfers and gca fans like me; and you may be right in general too.
But I was thinking about your essay on Pine Valley, and then/now about Sean's thread. I mean, Sean has a lot of winter tours under his belt, and has played both the 'best' and his 'favourites' many times.
Yes, he himself makes that distinction, and even explains it.
But if after years of playing experience -- on all those courses, over many days and in differing conditions -- his 'favourites' remain his 'favourites', what definition of 'best' is actually meaningful?
You recognize the architectural excellence of PV -- but if it's not also your favourite course, by what standards or criteria or value system does it nonetheless remain one of the very best?
Or to put it differently: maybe the standards and criteria and value systems that you or Sean or Jeff embrace (consciously or not) in identifying your 'favourites' are, in fact, the very same ones that could be used to determine the 'best'.
P     

« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 09:47:26 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2019, 02:47:05 AM »
Sean,

That makes perfect sense.  When I look back at all the best courses I've played, the chance of playing them again are likely slim at best due to a variety of reasons.  I guess a favorite is better served when you know its one you will likely play multiple times. Ideally the best and favorite would be one in the same, but I'm not one of the fortunate few who can claim that.  ;)

The idea of best in many esoteric aspects of life has never resonated with me. Look, I'm a guy from Detroit who drives a Ford despite living in England. That's as good a bio as I can muster.

Jeff, with that great line up of courses I am slightly surprised to see Sunny Old top the list.

Tom

Thanks for the Granville heads up.

Pietro

I generally think of best as a class of courses which among many attributes can challenge and intrigue very good (but not best) players capable of going low and be enjoyable and thoughtful for higher cappers. I place no such restrictions on my favourite courses. I don't much care about very good players when it comes to my enjoyment of the game.

Happy Hockey
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 04:53:01 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2019, 04:04:32 AM »


Jeff, with that great line up of courses I am slightly surprised to see Sunny Old top the list.

It has been a memorable year, but I liked what I think was the fairness and straightforwardness of Sunningdale Old. IIRC the New was a little tighter and I thought a tougher course, although they did run together somewhat.  The Old had some score able holes which if you hit a good shot you would get rewarded. It didn't just encroach on the fairway with gorse/heather/trees as I felt with Walton Heath a tad.  It was forgiving to an extent off the tee where you could frame your drives, but bunker placement got me on several approaches, which I saw the bunker and just couldn't execute the shot needed and got penalized.  No tricks or hidden challenges.  The word the comes to my mind was FAIR, while being beautiful, secluded, in good condition.


Perhaps while I was tempted to put down New South Wales for disappointing (Gasp! I'm running for cover. ;) ), as it had too many blind holes for a virgin play and windy conditions; Sunningdale was pretty benign and right in front of you.  Doesn't mean NSW isn't a fine layout and a big challenge which it was, but for my own preference I prefer a minimum of blind shots particularly for first (and probably only) plays as I may never be back.


To finish up on Sunningdale, the most memorable hole for me was the 10th with the cabin halfway hut in the background, which is certainly one of the most iconic par 4's I have played. I did have a twosome behind me (I played as a single) who had their dogs with them, which was pretty common there and thought added to the unpretentiousness of what is an iconic club.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2019, 09:55:43 AM »
The island is like the Garden of Eden.

How's that course? Too many trees? Overwatered?
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2019, 12:59:33 PM »
I'll give this a try:

MOST SURPRISING NEW PLAY COURSE: Bamburgh Castle – expected a dumb blonde and got it in spots. But also a number of really good holes, and that setting was enough to make this a course I cannot wait to return to. Honorable mention would be Braid Hills. I had seen some photos on GCA and decided to rush around it before dark after dropping a friend at EDI. Great views, firm turf, somewhat confusing routing, a bunch of good green complexes, and loads of quirk. Held back by too much gorse.
 
MOST DISAPPOINTING NEW PLAY COURSE: None, really, as I pretty much knew what to expect with every new place I played. Those that surprised were more in a good way.
 
BEST NEW PLAY INLAND: Bel-Air – I hadn’t seen the course before RGD’s work, but found this version to be full of interest and fun on a difficult site. I think a lot of plays would be needed to putt very well.
 
BEST NEW PLAY LINKS: Muirfield – Though it lacks much in the way of quirkiness, it’s relentlessly good and every hole intrigues. Was fortunate to play it on two different trips. The worst part about playing there the second time was staying at Greywalls and looking out my window at the course on the morning I was playing elsewhere. 

MOST SURPRISING SECOND (OR MORE) PLAY COURSE: Elie – I thought it was terrific last year when I played it for the first time by myself. Two more times around with a bunch of good friends in May had me marveling at the variety and often simplicity of the course. A great example about how par (16 par 4s) isn’t all that important. The town is also a great place to stay.
 
FAVORITE NEW PLAY LINKS: Muirfield – competition was from places like Lundin, Leven, Goswick, Kilspindie, Dunbar & even Dunstanburgh Castle. Muirfield was clearly the best of the bunch, but the more I play links courses, the more I feel like I need to move to the UK.

FAVORITE NEW PLAY INLAND: Bel-Air – not a lot of competition as most inland courses I saw this year were repeat plays. Hanging out after the round is almost as good as the golf.
 
BEST AFFORDABLE COURSE PLAYED: Goswick – loads of competition here from Dunbar. These are both higher than Sean’s cost guideline, but when you compare to US prices, most any non-big name UK course seems affordable to me. Playing either of these makes one wonder how much more you really need from a course.
 
BEST TRULY INEXPENSIVE COURSE: Alnmouth Village at £25 or Dunstanburgh Castle at £36. I think Dunstanburgh would be a shoe-in winner except for my dislike of the 18th. Delight for the £ is very high at Bamburgh Castle as well.
 
BEST COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: TOC – the only problem with playing it is that the round goes by far too fast and you realize you’re never going to get to see the course as much as you want. So many shots I dream of playing (or replaying) and just not enough rounds.
 
FAVORITE COURSE PLAYED THIS YEAR: Toss up between North Berwick and TOC. Both are dawn to dark kind of places, if only that were possible.


And a few more categories:


MOST IMPORTANT THREAD ON GCA: This one, lamenting changes happening to courses in GB&I. Some participants here may feel that concerns and criticisms are misguided, noting that courses are constantly changing. I just feel that changes should be more thoughtful and be careful not to take away uniqueness. http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67394.0.html


BEST REASON TO GO ON A GOLF TRIP: BUDA - Each year I marvel at the success organizers have booking a bunch of enthusiasts onto architecturally significant courses - especially so when it's at the weekend. Each year I think it can't get any better, then there's the next one. The best thing about these trips is the anchor nature of them, affording participants the chance to see other stuff before or after. If anyone is reading, here's a plug for Kington 2020!
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67596.0.html


BILLY GRAHAM AWARD: Ran Morrissett- I am hopeful that his role as architecture editor at Golf Magazine will eventually help to expose more people to ideas such as character is as important as challenge, land matters more than length, and fun trumps fair. Not everyone will answer the altar call, but I do think the ranks will grow.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 02:09:11 PM by John Mayhugh »

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2019, 01:30:22 PM »
This is a particularly good thread Sean, thanks.


I'd like to participate and will at some point but since I have a year end wrap up thread will all the courses I played this year only about 25% finished I need to hold off a bit.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2019, 08:38:23 AM »
Sean


100% agree re your comments on Deal. It's a fantastic course and also to my way of thinking the club has a good vibe which doesn't always go hand in hand with the quality of the course.


Wimereaux - I enjoyed this course but wouldn't go over board on it. I'm not sure if it was the lack of identity you refer to as more a feeling that the course had been buggered about with in a couple of places judging by the routing and walks between holes.


Touquet La Mer - similar comments to Wimereaux but the good stuff was of a higher standard. No disrespect to Frank and Patrice but not convinced simply re-instating Colt's holes was the best option. It looks to me that better golf holes could have been built if there was less adherence to simply reinstating what was there before.


Hardelot - Frank and Patrices work in reinstating the Simpson look in the bunkers on the Le Pins course is outstanding however I can't help thinking that the Dunes course was a more enjoyable routing over more interesting terrain even if the aesthetics weren't as good.


Niall

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2019, 09:27:20 AM »
The island is like the Garden of Eden.



lots of temptation but overly penile  ;) :o
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 02:36:14 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2019, 11:27:05 AM »
Jeff

So you preferred Strathlene to Buckpool. Most do although I must say I prefer Buckpool. It's got more interesting bits to it particularly some of the greens. That said the par 3 at Strathlene that plays along the spine of the hill is probably the best hole on either course. It's been a few years since I played either but Strathlene benefits from not really having any vegetation in the middle of the course whereas Buckpool had gorse encroaching everywhere, is that still the case ?

Niall

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2019 YANK AWARDS
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2019, 12:38:00 PM »
Sean

100% agree re your comments on Deal. It's a fantastic course and also to my way of thinking the club has a good vibe which doesn't always go hand in hand with the quality of the course.

Wimereaux - I enjoyed this course but wouldn't go over board on it. I'm not sure if it was the lack of identity you refer to as more a feeling that the course had been buggered about with in a couple of places judging by the routing and walks between holes.

Touquet La Mer - similar comments to Wimereaux but the good stuff was of a higher standard. No disrespect to Frank and Patrice but not convinced simply re-instating Colt's holes was the best option. It looks to me that better golf holes could have been built if there was less adherence to simply reinstating what was there before.

Hardelot - Frank and Patrices work in reinstating the Simpson look in the bunkers on the Le Pins course is outstanding however I can't help thinking that the Dunes course was a more enjoyable routing over more interesting terrain even if the aesthetics weren't as good.

Niall

Niall, yes, the disjointed routing is part of the lack of identity for Wimereux. Still, a pretty good course.

I found the routing at Les Dunes a bit too much on the sharp dogleg side.  Its probably the terrain which causes this.  That said, I wouldn't be adverse to playing Les Pins and Les Dunes again maybe as part of a trip heading toward Paris. 

Happy Hockey 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 04:54:18 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

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