[MCirba]

C&W lists one T. McClure Peters as having designed the original nine holes at Van Cortlandt Park in New York City in 1895.   While Peters was one of the native Scots who was instrumental in gaining permission from the Park Department for a links, it appears that instead this nine holes appears to have been designed by Willie Dunn.

First, a 1910 article from the Yonkers Statesman newspaper describing the provenance as well as the style and relative location of the golf course;




Note the description of the mound hazards and location.   The following New York Sun article from June of 1895 describes the course that is just in the process of opening very similarly.


 

[Benjamin Litman]

Thanks for sharing, Mike. I plan to put together a brief history and photo tour of Van Cortlandt (and possibly the other NYC municipal courses) this year. Having this kind of information is certainly very helpful.

[Sven Nilsen]

Mike:


Its curious to me that none of the contemporaneous reports note Dunn's involvement.  That being said, I haven't seen anything that attributes the course to Peters either.


You would think that Willie Dunn laying out a course that close to the city would receive some kind of coverage.  There are a number of reports of his activities in 1895, but nothing about Van Cortlandt.


Sven

[Benjamin Litman]

Sven,


The official NYC website attributes the original nine-hole course to Peters.


See the third sentence in the third paragraph at this page:


http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/VanCortlandtPark/highlights/11046


Benjamin

[Sven Nilsen]

Benjamin:


I was particularly discussing contemporaneous reports.


Sven

[Phil Young]

I wouldn't write off T. McClure Peters just yet... From the May 17, 1895 New York Sun:


Evidently Peters was active in the growth of New York City Park golf courses... I think more searching is needed on this one before writing him off...

[Jim_Kennedy]

I wouldn't write off T. McClure Peters just yet... From the May 17, 1895 New York Sun:


Evidently Peters was active in the growth of New York City Park golf courses... I think more searching is needed on this one before writing him off...

Not saying he had no hand in it, but he was a practicing attorney.
 

[Phil Young]

Jim, you stated, "Not saying he had no hand in it, but he was a practicing attorney." That's a good point... then again I understand that George Crump was a "Hotelier" but he seemed to have the time to design and build a golf course...

My reason for posting that blurb is two-fold. First it corroborates that Peters was part of those who founded an early NYC public golf course. Second. since no one has yet produced anything of substance to show who did design Van Cortland, maybe this article proving Peters connection to early NYC public golf courses shows that there might be some actual reason why the NYC website below does attribute it to Peters...

[Benjamin Litman]

Perhaps the answer is "both." Recall that in those days, architects (like Tom Bendelow, who would expand Van Cortlandt to 18 holes starting in 1899) often designed courses based on a single, day-long visit. Implementing the design, or "constructing" the course, was left to someone else. We know Dunn, the professional at Shinnecock at the time, was busy, so perhaps he designed the course and left its construction to Peters. Note that the NYC Parks website uses the verb "constructed," as opposed to "designed," in describing what Peters did at Van Cortlandt. Note also that the NYC Parks website, on a separate but related page containing the history of not only Van Cortlandt but the other municipal courses in NYC parks (http://www.nycgovparks.org/about/history/golf), uses the verb "designed" in describing what other people did at other courses. As we say in the law, that proves that, if the historians at the Parks Department had wanted to attribute the Van Cortlandt design to Peters, they could have done so because they knew precisely how to do so. That they didn't must therefore be interpreted as deliberate. (I awoke thinking Mr. Peters would have wanted me to identify by name the relevant principle of interpretation. It is expressio (or inclusio) unius est exclusio alteris, or "the expression/inclusion of one is the exclusion of the other.")

[MCirba]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the article mentioning T. McClure Peters.   You may have missed it but the June 1895 NY Sun article I posted above in my initial post also mentions Peters (stating that he has played some golf abroad), as well as the other officers of the Mosholu Club, including M. Taylor Pyne, who I believe was a Princeton grad.   I mention Princeton only because Willie Dunn also designed a new course for the Princeton University at the turn of last century on land that is today's Springdale Golf Club (revised years later by William Flynn) on that campus, so there may be a related connection.

In any case, I haven't had time today but am thinking that Dunn was likely in the neighborhood during May/June of 1895 working on Ardsley Casino, at the time the most expensive (and difficult as much of it was cut from forest) golf course project ever in the states, and as you know, just a short distance from Van Cortlandt Park.    So, he had opportunity, and with the names of some of the prominent folks of the Mosholu Club that likely ran in many of the same circles, he likely had motive, as well.

The article I posted in 1915 from the Yonkers Statesman was run in other newspapers, as well, such as NY Sun.

Here's some info about Ardsley from an article Joe Bausch found some time back;  http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/1896NYTimes/pages/page_2.html

[Benjamin Litman]

Mike/Phil: No one can seriously dispute Peters's involvement. Indeed, the official minutes of the July 3, 1895 meeting of the Board of Commissioners of the New York City Department of Public Parks contain this entry:






So we know that he spearheaded the project at least politically. Again, the only issue is what his involvement with the building of the course was. I stand by my previous post that, based on the NYC Parks Department's website, he "constructed" the original nine-hole course, while Dunn designed it.

[MCirba]

Benjamin,

Interesting that Peters of the Mosholu Club got the city to pay them directly to construct the links.  One could reasonably suspect they were well connected.

I did learn that Willie Dunn became the pro at municipal Forest Park in 1905 and then was resident pro at Van Cortlandt by 1906/07.  I'm not sure how he went from Shinnecock and Ardsley to serving the NYC munis but perhaps others with more knowledge of his career will weigh in.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike

I think there are several reasons that he left the 'private' world.
 
Dunn's business concerns - there was a considerably larger customer base in the public sector than the private. There were no discount houses in 1900s, so everyone was forced to a clubmaker or a department store, and Dunn saw the benefits of that. The boom in golf meant  that his teaching skills would also be available to a large and hungry market. He might also have thought that there would be no conflicts of interest that might arise from his design business if he was in the public market.. 

He was moving around from club to club and also playing a lot of golf. He probably realized that there was more money to be made playing in exhibitions and tournaments, and it was 'easier' money than being at the beck and call of members.

His skills were diminishing by 1906, his injuries must have taken a toll on his body. Going 'home' in 1907 probably seemed like a very good idea to him.


The 11th article mentions that he was 'losing his grip' at the end of his stateside career. Sad, but so is the 1911 want ad for a job so he could return to the USA.
   
Hope these are useful,
Jim
 
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4036157/the_wichita_beacon/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4036092/the_minneapolis_journal/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4036018/the_brooklyn_daily_eagle/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4036008/the_evening_world/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4036061/the_brooklyn_daily_eagle/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4035951/the_brooklyn_daily_eagle/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4035928/coshocton_daily_age/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4035811/the_scranton_republican/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4035860/newyork_tribune/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4035804/new_oxford_item/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4035802/the_new_york_times/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4035825/the_washington_post/


Got to give him credit. Here he is in 1933 with his newest invention:

[Sven Nilsen]

Jim:

He had a minor resurrection in the early '20s designing a few courses in the west.

It makes one wonder if the stigma of the "Willie Dunn System" as dubbed by Travis curtailed his design career.

Sven

[John Sabino]

Mike - thanks for posting. I know H.B. Martin's 1936 book Fifty Years of American Golf has a discussion about the creating of the original course, I don't recall whether he attributed it to Peters in his description or not. John

[MCirba]

Jim,

Thanks for helping round out the early story of Willie Dunn in this country.   It sounds as though a series of physical setbacks caused some interruptions in his career.   

John,

I have the Martin book at home but don't recall it going into extensive detail about the architecture of the original course.   I'll check tonight, thanks!

[MCirba]

A bit more to chew on here from the May 19th, 1895 New York Sun.   The article states that "the ideas of the golf players who petitioned the Park Board for the links have been followed as far as possible, and the opinions of other experts obtained."

Additionally, the article states that Mr. Roosevelt, who had charge of the matter for the Park Commission, "had been in consultation with golf experts and contractors, and promptly closed a bargain with the lowest bidder."

Which begs the question of who in 1895 NY City would be classified as a "golf expert"?   Frankly, I've seen the term used in the first decades in the states most often related to the playing ability of an individual, so it seems very possible that the article may be referring to Pyne, Peters, and the other charter members of the Mosholu Club.   However, in this case, those men were already mentioned as "the...golf players who petitioned the Park Board", and leaves open the question of who the "other experts" were whose opinions were obtained.

Certainly from a playing perspective, the real "experts" in this country at that time would have primarily included professionals like Willie Dunn, Willie Davis, and Willie Park, Jr..   It's pretty clear from the timeline of the nearby Ardsley Club that Dunn would have been in the immediate area of Van Cortlandt undertaking that large project by the late spring of 1895.   

Certainly nothing contemporaneously dispositive but certainly suggestive that more than Peters was involved in the creation.

[MCirba]

A bit more on the connection between Van Cortlandt and Willie Dunn...

As mentioned earlier, M. Taylor Pyne (Moses was his first name) was a Princeton man who was elected the first President of the Mosholu Club; in fact, the incorporation meeting was held at his NYC office.   

Later in 1895, this NY Sun article from November 11th shows that Pyne was instrumental in creating the first course and golf club at Princeton on property known as "Stockton Woods", which opened in 1896.   It is presently unknown who laid out that course but by 1897 Pyne was also elected President of that golf club.

It appears that course was very ramshackle, somewhat substandard, and before long the club was looking for new digs.  In November of 1899 240 acres were purchased and Willie Dunn assisted the Greens Committee with laying out the golf course, after a topographical survey of the property was completed.   Following are the referenced 11/11/1895 New York Sun article, as well as articles found previously by Joe Bausch from Princeton University publications.



Nov 15, 1899



Nov 16, 1899



Nov 18, 1899

[Bill Crane]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the article mentioning T. McClure Peters.   You may have missed it but the June 1895 NY Sun article I posted above in my initial post also mentions Peters (stating that he has played some golf abroad), as well as the other officers of the Mosholu Club, including M. Taylor Pyne, who I believe was a Princeton grad.   I mention Princeton only because Willie Dunn also designed a new course for the Princeton University at the turn of last century on land that is today's Springdale Golf Club (revised years later by William Flynn) on that campus, so there may be a related connection.

In any case, I haven't had time today but am thinking that Dunn was likely in the neighborhood during May/June of 1895 working on Ardsley Casino, at the time the most expensive (and difficult as much of it was cut from forest) golf course project ever in the states, and as you know, just a short distance from Van Cortlandt Park.    So, he had opportunity, and with the names of some of the prominent folks of the Mosholu Club that likely ran in many of the same circles, he likely had motive, as well.

Mike:
Bingo!   
Moses Taylor Pyne and Cleveland H. Dodge are two of the founders of Springdale G C - formerly known as The Princeton Golf Club.  We knew that they were involved with the founding of what became the first Municipal Golf Club in the U S - now Van Cortland Park.
It does seem like they may be a connection to Willie Dunn.
Also, one of the two estates USGA Headquarters is located on was an estate of relative of M T Pyne,  Percy Pyne II, although it is in not clear to me the relationship.   The putting course at USGA Golf House is the "Pynes Course" named in his honor.
It is ironic that John Read of Apple Tree Gang of Yonkers is mentioned since his grandson is a member of Springdale.   I recently had a discussion with him about Read who was a close friend and contemporary of Andrew Carnegie, having growing up together in Scotland and emigrated to the U S at roughly the same time.

Bill
ska WmFlynnfan

[Anthony Gholz]

Mike/Sven/Phil et al:

Just to throw fat on the fire, lets see what TB had to say 20 years after the fact, about the first three courses in America.  I'm not taking sides on this one as my knowledge of east coast courses is only what I read on these pages.  And thanks to all for that.  I'll put up what I find in the backwater of Detroit, somewhat west of the Hudson River. 

Tony

From the Detroit Free Press October 23, 1921.




[size=78%] [/size]

[Bill Crane]

Mike:
Looks like you found those articles while I was responding, but thanks for posting and looping in the Springdale information.   
Wayne Morrison previously brought them to our attention.
Bill

[Bill Crane]

A bit more on the connection between Van Cortlandt and Willie Dunn...

As mentioned earlier, M. Taylor Pyne (Moses was his first name) was a Princeton man who was elected the first President of the Mosholu Club; in fact, the incorporation meeting was held at his NYC office.   

Later in 1895, this NY Sun article from November 11th shows that Pyne was instrumental in creating the first course and golf club at Princeton on property known as "Stockton Woods", which opened in 1896.   It is presently unknown who laid out that course but by 1897 Pyne was also elected President of that golf club.

It appears that course was very ramshackle, somewhat substandard, and before long the club was looking for new digs.  In November of 1899 240 acres were purchased and Willie Dunn assisted the Greens Committee with laying out the golf course, after a topographical survey of the property was completed.   Following are the referenced 11/11/1895 New York Sun article, as well as articles found previously by Joe Bausch from Princeton University publications.

Mike;
To close another loop from a previous discussion, the original nine hole golf course was roughly located around Quarry Road in Princeton and Wayne Morrison provided us some newspaper articles that showed several holes routed over the quarry.   This is the course on which Hugh Wilson played most of his Princeton - college golf.  You will remember he joined our Green Committee when the course was being moved to it's current location, the project mentioned above.
Fun stuff.
Bill
ska Wm Flynnfan

[MCirba]

Bill,

Thanks for the additional information.   You may find it of interest that the first Philadelphia club that Hugh Wilson belonged to prior to his time at Princeton (Belmont Cricket Club) also had holes that played over and along a quarry.   

Anthony,

Tom Bendelow laid out two proposed 9-hole extensions to Van Cortlandt in late 1898.   In March of 1899 one of those plans was accepted by the Park Commissioners who also hired him to run the place at $500 a month.   I believe the full 18 hole course opened later that year.

All,

To further the confusion, this March 9th, 1899 article regarding Bendelow's hire states that Samuel Tucker of the St. Andrews Club was the one who laid out the first course at Van Cortlandt.   This seems a bit questionable as it mentions that it happened late in 1895 (other reports I've seen indicate that folks were playing just a month or so after the course was laid out in late spring), but who knows?  This article also mentions his rate at $100 a month, but other reports at the time indicated $500 monthly.

[Benjamin Litman]

Mike,


Regarding the timing of the construction of the original nine-hole course at Van Cortlandt Park, recall that the board minutes I posted above--authorizing Peters to "erect" a course--were dated July 3, 1895. A late-in-the-year opening date therefore seems to make sense. (To be sure, Peters might well have "erected" the course before his bill was approved, but that's pure speculation.)


Benjamin

[MCirba]

Benjamin,

There were reports of folks playing the course as early as June 1895 (see my opening post on this thread - second article) and other articles that proposed an opening date of July 1895.   The bill from McClure that was approved by the Park Commission reads to me as though it was for work already done, not for work proposed, thus the very specific amount of $624.80.   

Additionally, the June 1895 article describes work already done to construct the golf course.

I did come across an article from April 1896 that described a significant amount of work that needed to be done (new sodding of the greens, etc.) to get the links into better shape and it sounded as though that work was done late 1895 into 1896.   I didn't copy it in the interest of time today but suspect that may have been when Samuel Tucker of nearby St. Andrews was involved, or possibly employed by the Park Commission briefly.

Do you have access to other Park Commission records?

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