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Sean_A

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Gallant GANTON GC New
« on: October 02, 2013, 06:33:09 PM »
Map of the course.


At once tucked away in England's no man’s land and yet perhaps the most heralded of all England’s inland courses, Ganton’s name lays on the tongue of the golf connoisseur with the same savoury taste as Yorkshire Pudding smothered in gravy.  It wasn’t long after the founding of the club that Ganton began to build its reputation as a host of prominent events which is second to none among British inland courses.  It was the unflappable Harry Vardon, the greatest of all English golfers, starring in the heyday of British domination of the game who took centre stage in two matches before the turn of the century could be counted.  In 1895, a year before his appointment as club professional, Vardon comfortably dispatched with JH Taylor.  The triumph propelled Vardon to win the first of a record six Open titles the following year at Murfield. Vardon scored another famous victory, this time over Willie Park Jr in 1899 by dismantling the Scottish professional over the final 36 hole leg of their challenge match.  Not surprisingly, Vardon took the Claret Jug the same year at Sandwich by a cosy five shot margin. 

It was the turn of the women for the next great event which saw Joyce Wethered emerge victorious in the 1923 English Ladies Championship. A further two English Ladies Championships and two English Amateur Championships were hosted previous to the epic 1949 Ryder Cup matches. Perhaps the matches were slightly marred by non-playing Captain Hogan’s claim that the grooves on some British clubs failed to comply with the rules.  The R&A confirmed this suspicion and the club pro worked through the night to ensure the clubs adhered to rules.  The US eventually won a closely fought contest 7-5.  The Brabazon and PGA News of The World Matchplay (won by M Faulkner) soon followed.  The impressive list of events continues to this day.  Three Amateur Championships (Ganton being the only inland course to be so honoured), a Curtis Cup and most recently in 2003, a Walker Cup have all added to lore of Ganton. 

Many well known writers have chipped in with their opinions.  Patric Dickinson offered the following apt description: “Ganton doesn’t gamble.  Play steadily, play discreetly, and play with good taste and common sense...it has no really quotable holes.”   In one of the rare moments I would disagree with Bernard Darwin, no, Ganton isn't like Woking or Worplesdon.  Ganton is rugged in a northern manner, yet one can’t say Ganton is overly long nor are there distressing carries.  Where Ganton extracts its pound of flesh is in the relationship between the combination of strategic and penal bunkering and the subtle lay of the land.  Of particular interest, and to beg off Dickinson once again, “...but there are other bunkers, beautiful sirens, daring us to steer too near them, rallying our faint hearts to carry over them, and sneering at our feebleness if we take the middle course.”  There are several examples, but perhaps the best is displayed on the short two-shot third (which used to be a long par 3).  There are also examples such as the second where a bunker(s) eats into the left of the fairway while the terrain leans right. 

Unfortunately, when Ganton is in near perfect condition, running keen, the fairways can play quite narrow.  At times it will take a near perfect tee shot to play the champion game.  Of course, some will say Ganton is a championship links (there can be no better way to describe the course) and should therefore be punishing.  Perhaps there is something in this attitude, but it is this author’s opinion that an extra 10 yards of width would truly make some of the more interestingly placed bunkers “beautiful sirens”.   

The opener sets the tone.  A tight drive which offers the scope of playing shy of the bunkers; in a nutshell, this is the Ganton dilemma.  Below is our first look at a pit of despair. 


Whereas the modest length first turns right, the more forceful second turns left.  The front to back sloping green has a curious effect of creating a double dogleg.  Many drives will finish out to the right and leave a less than envious angle of approach.


More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 09:30:59 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies & Crystal Downs

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #2
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2013, 07:18:03 PM »
Do any greens convey a better sense of 'architectural repose' than Ganton's? The way they rest upon the terrain -- really, in the terrain -- is quiet yet miles from boring. And those bunkers, though fearsome, when viewed from a distance at eye level do anything but shout.

Two holes in and the aesthetic charms of Ganton already are on full display: refined harmony.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Sean_A

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #2 New
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2013, 03:32:08 AM »
GANTON TOUR CONT

As on the opening two holes, the third is visually restrained, though at least one can see the options on hand for this hole is dead straight. Given the many difficult par 4s, it is probably best if handicap players choose a tee which offers the opportunity of reaching the green in one.  For some, this will mean the daily 288 yard tee.  Though it doesn't appear to be the case, in normal conditions the large bunker eating into the driving zone from the left can easily be carried. Almost without fail, at Ganton, when a bunker crowds the fairway the land beyond will continue running in that direction and trouble invariably awaits on the far side; in this case it is bunkers, but there will often be a united front of rough, gorse and bunkers.   Perhaps worse is to be caught behind the bunkers with the unenviable task of playing over sand to a green which slips away toward a ditch to the rear of the green.  I mention the ditch because it must be taken into account from the tee and for the approach when Ganton is on summer form.   


The roll call of Ganton's architects reads like a hall of fame register: Vardon, H Hilton, CK Hutchinson and the remaining two of the Great Triumvirate; Braid and Taylor all visited in 1905 with the aim of beefing up Ganton's defences after the arrival of the Haskell.  Harry Colt first made suggestions to revise Ganton in 1907, perhaps his first paying job as an architect.  It is thought the removal of several cross bunkers and added yardage were the main targets for improvement.  Mackenzie also played a part in the Ganton story in 1912 and 1920.  Colt's final bit of work saw the creation of new greens for #s 13 and 17 and an entirely new 4th.  It is on this hole that we finally see an appreciable elevation change.  Legging to the right, the tee shot plays down an alley of greenery; shrubs, trees and other likely unpronounceable Yorkshian delights which will no doubt intimidate all but the most focused golfers.  Below are views of the green from the right rough and the 13th fairway.




There are too few short holes (only two from the white tees!), but what a terrific set!  The shortest of the three is encountered first.  Playing downhill it will often be the case that a kick in is prudent.  Not 25 yards shy of the green is a blind water hazard to contend with.


Coverering less than 450 yards and despite the great bunker down the left (not dissimilar to the 3rd) testing the resolve of golfers, the sixth is an uncommonly easy hole against par.  That said, once golfers understand the hole can be had, there will be more pressure to press for 4s.  In most cases, when golfers push against Ganton, Ganton pushes back.     

More to follow.

Ciao 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 09:32:27 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies & Crystal Downs

Brent Hutto

Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2013, 06:42:11 AM »
When I played there in 2012 I did not carry a scorecard or Strokesaver. Since I was going to be playing six rounds in three days I figured the course would get familiar soon enough.

My first five rounds were solo but I joined up with a member on the afternoon of the third day. When we finished the sixth hole I said something like "This is one hole I wouldn't be able to par if I played it 50 times". He said "You just made a five, that's par" and honestly that's the first moment I realized it was not yet another long, tough Par 4.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2013, 08:17:56 AM »
It's the bunkers, isn't it?... Placement and shapes...

Vegetation doesn't look too bad from the first few photos, Brian?

Might bow out of this thread though because don't want to look at too many photos before I play it...

Brent Hutto

Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2013, 08:30:24 AM »
Brian,

Seriously, is there any tree on any golf course anywhere that you think should be there?

Brent Hutto

Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2013, 09:39:15 AM »
Brian,

I must have been confused, thinking you were of the golf-course-as-blank-slate no tree brigade. Sorry.

Mark Pearce

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2013, 10:56:19 AM »
I have to say that Ganton has never struck me as particularly narrow.  There are a couple of tight drives (9 and 13, I think) but otherwise I don't think it's narrow.  I'd say Notts, for instance, is narrower and I don't think Notts is too narrow.  I don't really get the problem with gorse.  Which holes do you have in mind?
In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

Brent Hutto

Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2013, 11:03:41 AM »
Mark,

On my visit to Ganton and Notts last year, I did not come away with any inkling that someone might describe either course as narrow or tight. As you say, there's a tee shot here or trouble near a green there at each course. But my overall impression of both courses was of width and expansive scope.

Now if you want to avoid the BUNKERS at Ganton, shot selection and execution get a bit more precise!

Brent Hutto

Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2013, 04:35:58 PM »
Brian,

I suspect very, very few USA golfers have played Ganton. There were a couple contingents who visited there before or after the Northern Buda in 2007. And myself and a couple others since then. But to go play Ganton you have to GO PLAY GANTON. It does not dovetail well into a visit to the Lancashire coast, the Manchester area or even if your destination is Beau Desert or Notts.

If/when I visit again, I'll probably do basically what I did last year. Fly into Manchester and go settle into the Greyhound for a few days to play the course. Then move onto Notts or some other destination for a few additional days. But it's just not really practical to grab an 18 or 36 hole day at Ganton on your way to or from some place with ocean views (oops, did I just slag the preference for ocean views?).

Mark Pearce

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2013, 05:09:48 PM »
Brian,

 I have stayed at the Greyhound a couple of times and have never found the road noise to be a problem.  Indeed, I can't say I have ever noticed road noise.  After a couple of bottles of good Cotes de Castillon I can't imagine road noise being a problem!
In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2013, 05:12:38 PM »
Jsut to say I've played it and since then I've always considered it the No1 inland course in GB&I.

Cannot understand why it gets compared with Woddhall. After 2 rounds at both, I long to return to Ganton and will only go back to Woodhall if there's a special reason to. The superficial resembance is in the depth of the bunkers. I don't find that more than something peculiar to both.


Yes it's remote but for once I have to side with those who beoive GB is but a smal lisland. I drove to it from Leeds, past Alwoodley in 1hr 15mins and after 36 holes back to London in about 5 1/2 hrs.  I enjoyed it so much I never felt tired or in need of a snooze break.


Will try and keep up with the tour but I'm on the road from tomorrow. Thanks for the memories.

on 29th May I am riding 100 Miles to help raise funds for Dementia Research. All donations are welcome.
https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ridelondon-tonymuldoon

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2013, 05:37:52 PM »
Spose I should chime in. I have played Ganton at least 50 times over the years. Its turf is second to none that I have seen. It is a top routing which is made all the better by great bunkering. I can't fault any of the holes on the course and have been surprised that some here do not appreciate 14 for being an outstanding example of a short hole which in my opinion is better than any to be found at Sunningdale's two courses though I know many will disagree.

Also the 16th is a great example on how a green and pin placement can influence the decision of where to hit the tee shot. The only thing missing at Ganton is any real elevation and so it suffers from not having the scenic vistas of many other courses. If the course has a weakness it is that it really is a links course and were there a beach running along one of the boundaries of the course it would be raved about by many a GCA connoisseur. But there is no ocean view and so Ganton is difficult to put in a cubbyhole.

I have always found the course to be in good nick and often better to play in the winter than the summer. I would agree that it would be improved by a radical tree and undergrowth removal programme.

As well as playing Ganton it is well worth playing York GC (Strensil), Fulford as well as Pannel.

Jon

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2013, 05:51:12 PM »
It appears only a handful of us have played Ganton? I knew Mark P, Mark B and Brent would chime in but surely it's not just the 6 of us that have played it? It's a shame that threads on great British courses such as these get such scant commentary on this board as it is not a straightforward course to figure out from one play and would love to see it get the real detailed treatment...



Brian

This is not a bug, it's a feature. You think hit n runners complain about TOC and #2 being overrated, were Ganton's fame spread far and wide there'd be no end to the humphs and whinges.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Sean_A

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #9 New
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2013, 06:40:07 PM »
The 7th and 8th swing to and fro.  Not surprisingly, the 7th has a nest of bunkers guarding the inside line down the right with horrible rough through the fairway left.  The angles once again are perfection with the safer line creating added difficulty with the approach. The photo below depicts a fairly wide corridor, but the dogleg right is sharp enough to considerably reduce that width.  Because the bunkering is often visually discreet and the land can quietly shift toward trouble, invariably, Ganton's fairways are narrower than they first appear.  Often times, the heart of the driving zones are 35 yards wide or considerably less.  Throw in the added element of wind and Ganton could not be accused of  being excessively wide.     


Mr Sheehy fell victim to the safe play by finding a greenside bunker.


The 8th is not dissimilar to #2 except for the more rolly polly green.  The side ends with a par 5 featuring one of the best green complexes on the course and more obvious movement in the fairway. 


More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 09:32:56 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies & Crystal Downs

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2013, 06:57:49 PM »
Regarding width, there are a few areas where the gorse and / or shrubbery pinch in and could stand to go. Gorse apparently was everywhere 100+ years ago; as part of his alterations Colt had a fair amount removed. For example, gorse formed a crossing hazard on the 3rd.

Speaking of Colt, the quality of the course is impressive given how many worked on it and how much. On the other hand, when that 'committee' consists of Braid, Vardon, Colt, and Mackenzie, perhaps it's less of a miracle.

And speaking of the 3rd, if the crap down the right were cut back OB might come more into play as well as the temptation to avoid the bunker left (setting up a more difficult second shot). Here's the 3rd is as it is:








And here it is flipped vertically to facilitate a comparison:




What similarities do you see in playing strategies, nature and severity of misses, etc? Is the comparison a valid one, and if so, why is the one famous yet the other obscure, particularly if the other predates the one?
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #9
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2013, 07:12:21 PM »
I despair of catching up. Skipping 4-6, I think the 7th was new to Colt's 1908 redo. The 7th in 1897 according to Horace Hutchinson was a 180-yard two shotter(!) that played across a swamp. In 1912 Mackenzie softened the approach feeding into the green.

I say it deserves consideration as one of the world's great par 4s. Would everyone characterize it as more a dogleg or a reverse dogleg?

The bunkering in the dogleg can be carried with a good drive, setting up a shorter second shot. But the green slopes away from the golfer from over there, particularly if he's gotten too greedy.

Conversely, hitting out to the left is safer -- assuming you don't bail out too far into that death bunker over there. But a well-placed drive over there leaves a longer second. You can bounce / run it in better I think from over there but there's that bunker short of the green to be negotiated.

This is maybe my favorite green on the course. Just outstanding.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2013, 07:23:37 PM »
I can't fault any of the holes on the course and have been surprised that some here do not appreciate 14 for being an outstanding example of a short hole which in my opinion is better than any to be found at Sunningdale's two courses though I know many will disagree.



I am on the record in the archives as calling the 14th maybe the best short 4 I've ever played. I feel this hole is worthy of its own thread. So there's that.  :P
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #6
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2013, 07:28:41 PM »
I can't fault any of the holes on the course and have been surprised that some here do not appreciate 14 for being an outstanding example of a short hole which in my opinion is better than any to be found at Sunningdale's two courses though I know many will disagree.



I am on the record in the archives as calling the 14th maybe the best short 4 I've ever played. I feel this hole is worthy of its own thread. So there's that.  :P

Mark,

I did notice your comment on 14. It is a hole that regardless of how often you play it never allows you to settle on one way to get from tee to green. I always have to deliberate what to do when standing on the tee and it is never easy to decide.

Jon

Brent Hutto

Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #9
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2013, 08:16:14 PM »
NOTE: I MADE THE FOLLOWING COMMENT THINKING IT WAS THE 14TH BUT IT'S THE 12TH. THE ACTUAL 14TH IS A VERY, VERY COOL HOLE.

I think for me the best strategy would be to just aim for the bunker on the 12th. Every shot I play trying NOT to go in the bunker ends up in trouble. And if I try to just play short of it I'll hit the best shot of the day and make it there anyway.

I think for six rounds I must have been about six over par on a 350-yard (or whatever it was from the yellow tees) hole. Couple pars, couple bogeys, couple doubles and never even a sniff at birdie. Off the tee there's crap off to the left and that little ditch thingy short and right, it's surprisingly easy to make a six.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 06:15:16 AM by Brent Hutto »

PPallotta

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #2
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2013, 09:02:47 PM »
Do any greens convey a better sense of 'architectural repose' than Ganton's? The way they rest upon the terrain -- really, in the terrain -- is quiet yet miles from boring. And those bunkers, though fearsome, when viewed from a distance at eye level do anything but shout.

Two holes in and the aesthetic charms of Ganton already are on full display: refined harmony.

Perfectly said.

Thanks much Sean.


Steve Lang

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #9
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2013, 09:06:15 PM »
 8) Sean,

Thanks for posting this thread and the instructive pics.  I played Ganton back in Sep 1996 after playing TOC a week earlier and remember my host Dr. Allison's directions regarding "think inland links!"   Nothing but great memories there.. So i've set to looking things up on Google Earth, plotting the shots I can still remember making.  I will chime in later... especially about the 18th and THE TREE!

p.s.
I travelled from 5 am in Broadway in the Cotswolds by taxi and then i think 3 trains to get to York around noon.. I got picked up and we motored off into Yorkshire and in relatively short order, after a quick sandwich in the clubhouse, gazing at things on the walls, and having fun with the pro to assemble a set of sticks, we set out on a wonderful trek for some match play...  unfortunately spent too much time and missed my train out of York, but had great dinner near Monk's Gate... Bright Moments indeed!

p.s. still interested in northern mich golf pics?
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #9
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2013, 09:23:21 PM »
The 7th and 8th swing to and fro.  Not surprisingly, the 7th has a nest of bunkers guarding the inside line down the right with horrible rough through the fairway left.  The angles once again are perfection with the safer line creating added difficulty with the approach. The photo below depicts a fairly wide corridor, but the dogleg right is sharp enough to considerably reduce that width.  Because the bunkering is often visually discreet and the land can quietly shift toward trouble, invariably, Ganton's fairways are narrower than they first appear.  Often times, the heart of the driving zones are 35 yards wide or considerably less.  Throw in the added element of wind and Ganton could not be accused of excess width.      



I would like to see the mowing line moved out.

Actually, as I suspect you'd agree, the course on many holes for we mortals could be more difficult without rough. Not, say 4, where the rough is brutal, but on many other dogleg holes such as 7. Controlling one's ball out there, as on any links, presents quite a challenge. The rough, if not 'horrible' deep, can be your friend, as it buffers shots from the gorse. On 7 and again on 11 driving through the dogleg into the course was sufficiently probable for me that it induced genuine thought and concern. I would like to see that preserved yet at the same time see the rough maintained at everyday-play heights. A balance then in both rough width and height.

And let's put this one to bed: Ganton is a links, it's simply a matter of the time you choose to measure sea levels. As a links, it could do without trees! A bit of gorse however is essential. Down the left on 14 for example. (I think.)
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Sean_A

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #9
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2013, 02:08:27 AM »
I wouldn't have picked out the 4th as a particularly great hole.  It is devious and difficult for sure, but great?  I would need to see it a few more times to draw a final conclusion.  With one play the only hole I thought stood out above all others was the 10th. 

I agree, Ganton is an inland links, but that isn't quite the same thing as a links...hence the qualifier.  I think that is rather obvious in the pix.  However, the vegetation takes away from that joy to be alive.  The site is expansive, yet somehow manages to feel very constricted. Over the course of two days Sheehy and I had running shoot outs with Gentle James concerning Ganton's width.  I think he did some googling to compare widths with Alwoodley (which Sheehy and myself thought was significantly wider than Ganton yet not overly wide), but I didn't get any results.  I would also also say that so far, on #s 2, 3, 7 & 8 that the Ganton widths are less wide than they measure because of land movement.  In the conditions we played (the course was in great nick) it was my impression that to take on the bunkering required very accurate and/or long driving was required.  Though I understand that the course will not be as keen much of the year and this is a somewhat exceptional year for grand weather.  In any case, and this is a great shame, the course doesn't strike me as wide enough to accommodate the apple pie conditions.  Its almost as if the design is too clever for the green keepers - tee hee. 

BTW - The 7th may have been the product of the Great Tri plus mates.  They were the first to roust Ganton.

BTW II - I agree concerning #3.  Sometimes shorter grass creates more problems.  Without a dangerous situation to the right I can't see why the OOB line isn't better used.  Concerning the 7th, I disagree.  That short rough is a saver from the harsh stuff.  The hole plays narrow and the rough is a counterbalance. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 04:41:11 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies & Crystal Downs

Mark Pearce

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Re: Gallant GANTON GC - thru #9
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2013, 02:25:06 AM »
Sean,

I'm looking forward to see what you make of 14.  In my view, as I have said elsewhere and I know in Mark B's, it is one of the very great short par  4s, yet you clearly think the only hole that stood out above the others was 10, not a hole I think of as one of the better ones on the property.  What are we seeing that you are not, or vice versa?

As to width, I still don't get your complaint.  Did you lose balls out there?  Sure it requires accurate play but that rough ain't Muirfield style hay (even though that's an unfair characterisation of Muirfield) and losing a ball at Ganton takes a really, really wide ball or a daft play.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 03:28:03 AM by Mark Pearce »
In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

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