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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Lovely LIPHOOK GC: New Layout New
« on: June 18, 2012, 08:03:56 PM »
Arthur Croome had the benefit of learning his trade from the likes of Colt, Park Jr and Fowler before completing his 1923 master design at Liphook.  As a member of the club and Green Committee, it is believed that Tom Simpson had the ear of Croome. Originally, the course was within the Wheatsheaf Common Inclosure.  The members used the Wheatsheaf Hotel as the clubhouse and after failing to negotiate its purchase the club bought additional land to create a few new holes and construct a clubhouse near what was the original 10th tee.  Additionally, the nines were switched in 1949, consequently, the 9th green and 10th tee were closest to what is now the Links Tavern. 

However, this year Liphook went under the knife once more. The main goal of the Tom Mackenzie work was to eliminate the horribly dangerous road crossing after the 14th. This was achieved by renumbering holes, building two completely new holes and changing the routing for three holes...two of which used existing greens and one which required a new green.  Not only did the work eliminate one nasty road crossing, but there is now a better course cohesion which flows more naturally than the previous iteration of Liphook. 

Being an Oxford Blue and the first secretary of the Oxford & Cambridge GS, Croome was well known in the world of golf.  Despite owning a name in golf circles and being in partnership with Fowler, Abercrombie & Simpson, it isnít known why a man which handled the business side of the firmís activity was selected as Liphookís architect.  What is known is that Croome had a sound partner in Tom Simpson and an experienced construction team in Frank Harris Bros.  It is thought that Croome worked on a slim budget and thus had to get the most out of the land. Judging by the manner in which the hills are attacked, the greens sites and usage of rig and furrow, many would agree that Croome was very successful in taking advantage of what the good lord provided.  Of course, some wonderfully placed bunkers and skilful green contours also tend to keep the golfer fully engaged.

While the current look of Liphook most assuredly is very different from the original blueprint, I wonder if the course plays all that differently.  I write this because the tree management at Liphook is for the most part a model of excellence.  They come into play here and there, but usually as a creative and welcome diversion from the other hazards on offer.

The opening six holes are the same as before the recent work.  The short 1st is not an attractive nor inspiring opener. However, we can't blame Croome as this hole was created when the new house was built.  That said, the green and terrain to the left makes for a difficult recovery.


Fortunately, the second is a super hole which requires some brute strength and guile.


I reckon in the height of summer proper, this angle of approach would be nigh on impossible to achieve due the severe fairway slope.  The greensite is a premonition of things to come as the golfer will encounter several greens falling away from the line of play.


It isn't often a class course features two short holes in the opening three.  While easier than #1, I much prefer the third. At 116 yards from the daily tee the short yardage may lull folks into not take into account the uphill nature of the terrain and quite possibly a head wind.  Below is a look at the hole from the longer left tee. 


More to come.

Ciao 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 11:32:41 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012, 08:40:30 PM »
When we played Liphook in last year's Buda I had never heard of the course but wow, what fun and what a challenge.   A great routing that wanders all over the place, and some excellent greens while not over the top.   

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK New
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 04:03:31 AM »
Ace

I agree.  The routing does move all over the place and the greens are contoured just enough to be interesting yet are able to be made quite firm to ratchet up the difficulty.

LIPHOOK CONT

The good golf continues on #4.  The left hand bunker is oddly placed in today's no man's land as it can't be reached off the tee and yet it is miles short of the green.  I am a fan of this sort of placement if only to harass recovery shots.  There are, however, some well camouflaged bunkers left and right of the green.   


Of particular note is the sand on the left.  A little swale shy of the green feeds toward this bunker and will have a good chance of catching a slightly pulled approach.  Then and now.




We make the first of a handful of road crossings to reach the par 5 fifth tee.  On the card, all of the par 5s look as if they are merely strong par 4s due to their sub 500 yard length from the daily tees.  However, #s 5 and 7 may prompt the player to ask himself if there has been an error in measurement for they seem to require two mighty blows! 

It seems to me that driving to the outside of the leg is prudent. Yet when standing over the second, the hole doesn't visually favour one side over the other.  It isn't until closer to the green that one spies the danger in the guise of two bunkers protecting the left of the green.  Well short of the putting surface, a nest of bunkers awaits in the right heather, although, in most cases heather is a worse place to be than sand.  The sunken green too is quite clever.  It forces players looking to make birdie to fly the third past the ridge to the back tier or be very precise with the bump and run.


A very good two-shotter, the 6th moves right around heather (or over it for flat bellies).  There is a hidden bunker on the safe left line from the tee and a pair of aiming bunkers further up the fairway for the most aggressive minded golfers.  The green is well protected and favours play from those who challenge the heather off the tee.






Roads, roads and more roads!  We now follow a lane to a parcel of the property which contains the bulk of the course and more importantly many of the best holes Liphook has to offer.  The 7th was the 13th.  Named Two Counties because the hole straddles the Hampshire-Sussex border, this three-shotter is definitely reachable in two, but it looks like one could hit the ball all day and never reach the green. There have been a few modifications to this hole such as the removal of the bunker on the right over the water, but nothing which materially alters how the hole is played. 


A look at the approach for those who can't cover the abyss in two.  This is visually the most striking par 5, but I don't think its any better than the more mundane 5th.  I question if this hole shouldn't be a par 4 in trying to bring the water more into play with a tee not so far back. 


#s 8 & 9 are the entirely new holes.  Both are good holes, but I wonder if the greens could have been more imaginative.  The short 8th plays downhill and with a left to right slope. I dislike the trees down the left because they unnecessarily limit shot shaping.   


A short par 4, the 9th doglegs hard right.  Perhaps my favourite aspect of the new work is the beautiful drainage pond built on the right side of the hole after the fairway turns. 




The back nine used to be punctuated by four short par 4s, none of which were completely compelling.  The new layout spreads the short 4s more evenly through the course and makes for a more enjoyable back nine.  The lovely 10th is a combination of the old 10th and 11th holes using the green from the 11th. For many, the approach won't be all that different from playing the old 11th, but with a slightly better angle.


Just as was the case with the old 11th, the green is a tight, but highly engaging target.


Extended some 75 yards, the 11th is now a par 5 which plays over the old green to a new, very well protected green.  I don't care for the look of the approach as the trees create a clausterphobic feel. In fact, many more trees could have come out on this section of the property to open up more views. 


Perhaps my favourite hole, the 12th (old 7th) is a testing one-shotter with a severe two-tier green and not much possibility of an up n' down par. 


Below is how the hole appeared in what I think was some time not far shy of WWII. 


It seems as though this green has been altered somewhat.




A short par 4, though the 13th (old 8th) is not quite what I would consider driveable.  Consequently, the player must decide if it is worth taking on the bunkers and the narrow landing zone for the drive.  Its probably wise to lay-up, but the challenge is quite tempting despite there not being much reward for success.  A very interesting green; there is a large pimple in the centre left of the surface and a general back to front and a rounded slope to the green.


We now come to what originally would have been a grand closer.  The 14th (old 9th) plays over a valley to a wide fairway.  The second is fairly long, blind and to a green which slips down the far side of the hill.  Luckily, there is a marker post for guidance.  The rig & furrow contours seen at the top of the hill continue in a less prominent fashion to the tee shot landing zone.  One may wonder why there is such heavy foliage to the right; down the 12th through 14th holes is the Portsmouth to London rail line. 


A closer look at the huge rig & furrow contours.  There are several places this type of earthworks come into play.


A look at the green from the crest of the hill.


One gets the impression the ball will funnel down to the green, but there is a swale just short that will trap any weak efforts.  I am sorry for the plethora of photos, but one doesn't come across many truly unique holes.  While I can imagine many adamant opponents of architecture such as this I would argue this is exactly the sort of hole which helps a course distinguish itself from others cut of the same cloth. 


More to come.   

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 14, 2022, 02:00:33 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2012, 06:14:20 AM »
Sean, One of my favourites. I look forward to the rest of your pictures and commentary. I was playing there some years ago before the Liphook by-pass was built and the main A3 ran through the course. A lady member was killed crossing from the far side back to the clubhouse side. None of us had the wish to continue playing. Mark.

Tom Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 09:04:03 AM »
I am just in the process of joining Liphook having moved down to the area recently and I can't wait to get playing.

It is largely thanks to the coverage it got on GCA last year that I looked into the club as I doubt I would have heard of it otherwise.

It is further from my home than a number of other clubs but being that few miles south of the M3 it seems offers far better value for money than most of the other options I had further north. The 'intermediate' age group membership options have also helped abit too, otherwise I would have been playing down the local muni for quite a while!

On first viewing I really think it has 14 or 15 fantastic golf holes, unfortunately as you say a few of the short fours on the back, which I will be interested to hear peoples opinions on and the annoyance of the road bring down the overall quality of the course slightly. I already know my pet peeve will be anything that occurs between the 14th green and the 16th tee.

I wonder who owns the land adjacent to the 15th fairway....?!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK New
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2012, 06:00:44 PM »
Tom

None of the drive/wedge holes are bad, its just that there are five of this sort.  Its a few too many for my liking.  Speaking of the short 4s...

LIPHOOK CONT

We must cross the road again for two isolated back and forth holes.  The 15th used to be a dogleg right, it now turns left slightly. The drive offers an exciting option to go for the green.  A well placed bunker down the right about 90 yards short of the green is the main hazard, although missing left is a real possibility.  I must say the fairway where the bunker is narrows down to a ridiculous 10ish yards.  The approach is seemingly benign, but the green features a gully cutting the surface in two with the back half moving away from the fairway. If one looks carefully, it looks as though a path used to run through the green probably before it was used for golf.

One must not be at all adventurous with a choice of club for #16.  The fairway narrows to about 10 yards out of sight from the tee, however, the approach is quite attractive.




The final par 3, Sussex Ridge, plays over more rig & furrow earthworks which come into play when the flag is to the rear of the green. The green is set slightly diagonal to the tee and provides for perhaps two clubs difference in yardage between the front and back of the putting surface.  Unfortunately, trees come into play if the hole is on the far left side of the green.

For those that know Huntercombe, the house will look familiar; the same company built both.  The finisher is probably the weakest of the par 5s, but that may be no disadvantage as the last hole.  A good drive will easily see the player within range of the green in two, but the final yards of the approach steadily climb through the green. Behind the green.


I am nearly always going to be susceptible to the guile of a well designed course around the 6000 yard mark from the daily tees.  Now that the main road issue and better course flow issues have been solved, I am even more impressed with Liphook.  With two All England candidates in 12 & 14, Liphook also hits high quality notes.  Despite some misgivings about the new work, I have no doubt Liphook has been significantly improved and I look forward to visiting again.  2020

Ciao 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 10:54:14 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012, 06:12:25 PM »
15 and 16 are tricky holes, but the road crossing from 14 green to 15 tee is the most dangerous part of the Liphook journey.   Those cars whip around the corner like it's the chicane at LeMans. 

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2012, 06:21:41 PM »
Sean,

Thanks for your thoughts and pictures of Liphook. I think the course is marvellous and only spoilt by the road crossings.

When discussing the 9th you mention:

"I am sorry for plethora of photos, but one doesn't come across many truly unique holes.  While I can imagine many adamant opponents of architecture such as this I would argue this is exactly the sort of hole which helps a course distinguish itself from others cut from the same cloth."

Perhaps you have just hit the nail on the head regarding quirk... features or holes that help distinguish a course from others cut from the same cloth!

Tom,

Good luck on getting into Liphook!

Cheers,

James

ps here are a couple of other picture threads for those that are after more...
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49824.0.html
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49554.0.html
2022 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Reay

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Tom Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2012, 12:55:39 PM »
Sean,

I don't think the short 4's are bad holes as such, but most of them are not up to the standard of some of the other fantastic holes as you pointed out, which is a shame. I personally wouldn't mind that many short 4's if they are all good holes and offer some variety, but I am not convinced they do.

10th - I am not convinced a par 4 where I am forced to hit a 6 or 7 iron off the (yellow) tee can ever be good?!

14th - I would be interested to see whether the trees on the corner are original or a later addition. They seem very penal to the shorter hitter and make for a really awkward tee shot (for better or worse). I think without the trees it could be a more interesting hole, though my opinion may change with more plays.

15th - A horrible tee shot imo. The combination of the internal out of bounds, blindness, heavy rough long and left and the tree lined and narrow nature of the fairway further up really doesn't sit well with me. Get rid of a few of the trees on the right of the fairway and with a little more room long and left and it could be a good hole, but unfortunately that isn't going to happen with the H&S issues that the 16th fairway causes. The road crossing before doesn't help the hole either...........I do like the green and approach though.

I really like the other short par 4's. 16 is really unique and 8 is just a really good looking golf hole, with a great green.


I think Liphook has a great set of par 3's, but does anyone think that bunkering the 1st green would improve the hole?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2012, 01:14:36 PM »
Tom

I agree, the five short 4s aren't bad individually, but I think using five holes of this length out of 13 non par 3s is ott.  I stated before that converting one or two to drivable par 4s would be my approach - 14 being a prime target.  I am envisioning a sort of hole like Little Aston's 14th was originally, but a bit shorter so it can be driven.  The downhill nature after the turn is perfect for making flat bellies control the long ball.  The way the hole is set up now one must be huge to reach that green - plus the gap between the trees is quite narrow.  I don't think the reward is worth the risk. See bellow for a look at LA's 14th.

I kinda like #15 though I think for a blind drive there should be more space left.  Its already a bad spot for approaching - cut the rough back.  I don't like the trees up the right, but I don't think the club will be imaginative to do something else.  I would like to see them tinker with some huge centreline bunkers (15 and 16 being one fairway) and a path keeping players to the left side up the 16th fairway until folks coming up the 15th can be seen. 

Yes, #1 seems like it should have nasty bunker covering the front left - a wraparound jobbie.  I would also cut the tree in the valley down and just leave that cool gnarly tree next to it.

Ciao     
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 04:04:09 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Tom Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2012, 03:49:47 PM »
My first instinct when seeing 14 was that the trees should go and bunkers replace them. If done right they would still make the longer guys think twice about taking them on and wouldn't penalise the shorter hitters who lay up left as they still have a route over the bunkers to the green rather than being blocked out by the trees.

To take the green on in its current form is pretty brave....or just stupid.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2012, 05:46:20 PM »
My first instinct when seeing 14 was that the trees should go and bunkers replace them. If done right they would still make the longer guys think twice about taking them on and wouldn't penalise the shorter hitters who lay up left as they still have a route over the bunkers to the green rather than being blocked out by the trees.

To take the green on in its current form is pretty brave....or just stupid.

The bunkers are there already, but surprising because of the trees planted near them to mostly block that route.  I'd say cut the trees and keep the bunkers, let the long knockers have at it!

The feature I liked best on that hole was the swale all down the right side of the green, very tricky little shots required. 

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2012, 06:31:45 PM »
Sean, Portsmouth-London not Plymouth-London! Super pictures bringing back lots of happy memories of playing here in the 70s when visitor fees were the best you could find around London even adding in the train fare. Bill Large was the professional in those days, a professional good enough to be seen in tour events on the TV. Quite something to pay your green fee to him!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2018, 04:12:25 AM »
I had the good fortune to bring the tour to Liphook, unfortunately the weather was dire.  Still, its always a pleasure to meet up with folks and have a drink.  I heard a great deal about the major changes to accomodate a planned new tunnel under the B2070. Hopefully Tom will kick in and explain what is proposed, but to me practically anything which eliminates that road crossing has to be a positive for the design.  See the updated pix.

Previous Stops

Warkworth
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,65712.0.html

North Berwick
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59363.0.html

Alnmouth Village
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,65709.0.html

Little Aston
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38973.0.html

WHO
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61415.msg1460548.html#msg1460548

RAC
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,65366.0.html

St Georges Hill
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36130.0.html

Huntercombe
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32228.msg633321.html#msg633321

Worcester
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49998.msg1348691.html#msg1348691

Planned stops: Princes

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 04:15:08 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2018, 05:40:06 AM »
Not seen this thread before and donít know much about the course but it looks pretty impressive from the photos.
Atb

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2018, 11:11:40 AM »
Sean


I sat next to a Liphook member at a golf tournament dinner in Spain a couple of months ago and he had a great anecdote about the treacherous B2070.


Apparently at the beginning of WWII the Army Engineers had a training camp near Liphook and the Club granted playing membership at the Club (to only the officers, of course).  The commander experienced the lethal crossing and offered to build a bridge or dig a tunnel for free, as a training excercise for the troops.  The Club President, pondered quickly and declined the offer, for reasons unknown.
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2018, 11:33:09 AM »
A wonderful course. The road crossing certainly gets your attention. Also a lovely area.


Bob

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2018, 04:23:08 AM »
Sean

I sat next to a Liphook member at a golf tournament dinner in Spain a couple of months ago and he had a great anecdote about the treacherous B2070.

Apparently at the beginning of WWII the Army Engineers had a training camp near Liphook and the Club granted playing membership at the Club (to only the officers, of course).  The commander experienced the lethal crossing and offered to build a bridge or dig a tunnel for free, as a training excercise for the troops.  The Club President, pondered quickly and declined the offer, for reasons unknown.


What a bonehead move.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Tom Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2018, 10:50:05 AM »
Sorry, it's taken me a while to get around so this!


As Sean says there are some fairly big changes afoot at Liphook that are likely to take place over the next year or two, with the overall goal being to introduce tunnels under the road to avoid the awkward road crossings we presently have. The first tunnel will be between the 4th and 5th holes and won't affect the golf course but the second crossing will have to be moved from the present location between the current 14th and 15th holes as logistically a tunnel at that point is not possible due to the double issue of the road and railway bridge. Therefore the second tunnel will be from the current 9th green across the road to a car-park the club owns that is currently used by players teeing off the 10th tee at certain times. From that point there is already a pedestrian bridge under the railway line and out onto the land to the left of the current 15th fairway. For this to work the course needs a few tweaks to the routing so that the current 9th hole become the new 14th hole......Tom Mackenzie has been appointed and has come up with what seems like a good solution to the issues.


So it's bit hard to explain in words but pictures paint a thousand of them so here is a plan showing the new proposed routing;


White is the current routing with the dashed lines showing the holes/shots that will be lost. The purple lines show the new holes/routing. Please note the purple tee shot line on the current 9th/new 14th hole is only an option, I believe the existing tee will still be retained.





My opinion is that the club will be losing what are probably the 'weakest' tee shots on the course in 10, 14 & 15 which is a positive but will also be losing the set piece one shot 11th although you will still play to that green albeit as a par 4 (this was found to have been proposed by Tom Simpson long ago after the clubhouse moved from the pub and the 10th tee had to be built at the present location) and what I see as the biggest loss, the 14th green. I not a fan of the 14th hole overall but the green is a beauty. I hope the essence of this green can be incorporated into the two new greens being built. I think the success of the changes rests on the character of the two new greens and whether the the 9th hole can be pulled off with enough interest in what is quite a tight area.


Hopefully that makes sense, any questions just ask and I'll try to answer as best I can.

Cheers
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 05:28:01 AM by Tom Kelly »

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2018, 11:58:48 AM »
Sorry, it's taken me a while to get around so this!


As Sean says there are some fairly big changes afoot at Liphook that are likely to take place over the next year or two, with the overall goal being to introduce tunnels under the road to avoid the awkward road crossings we presently have. The first tunnel will be between the 4th and 5th holes and won't affect the golf course but the second crossing will have to be moved from the present location between the current 14th and 15th holes as logistically a tunnel at that point is not possible due to the double issue of the road and railway bridge. Therefore the second tunnel will be from the current 9th green across the road to a car-park the club owns that is currently used by players teeing off the 10th tee at certain times. From that point there is already a pedestrian bridge under the railway line and out onto the land to the west of the current 15th fairway. For this to work the course needs a few tweaks to the routing so that the current 9th hole become the new 14th hole......Tom Mackenzie has been appointed and has come up with what seems like a good solution to the issues.


So it's bit hard to explain in words but pictures paint a thousand of them so here is a plan showing the new proposed routing;


White is the current routing with the dashed lines showing the holes/shots that will be lost. The purple lines show the new holes/routing. Please note the purple tee shot line on the current 9th/new 14th hole is only an option, I believe the existing tee will still be retained.





My opinion is that the club will be losing what are probably the 'weakest' tee shots on the course in 10, 14 & 15 which is a positive but will also be losing the set piece one shot 11th although you will still play to that green albeit as a par 4 (this was found to have been proposed by Tom Simpson long ago after the clubhouse moved from the pub and the 10th tee had to be built at the present location) and what I see as the biggest loss, the 14th green. I not a fan of the 14th hole overall but the green is a beauty. I hope the essence of this green can be incorporated into the two new greens being built. I think the success of the changes rests on the character of the two new greens and whether the the 9th hole can be pulled off with enough interest in what is quite a tight area.


Hopefully that makes sense, any questions just ask and I'll try to answer as best I can.

Cheers


Hi Tom,


Thank you for this insight regarding the course changes and having been at Liphook at BUDA I am glad to see that the changes actually improve the course in theory however why don't they reuse the existing 14th green as the new 13th green (existing 8th) and create a new frontage that would definitely make this hole more interesting.


I was not a keen fan of the 16th as you had to drive long and right to get a clear view of the green - they could move the green slightly further right where the existing 15th tee is.


Look forward to seeing further details and proposals by Tom Mackenzie.


Cheers
Ben

Tom Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2018, 08:08:15 AM »
Hi Ben,


I don't think the 14th green would work from the angle of the 8th as it is quite bit lower than the existing 8th green, falling away from the line of play and also very shallow from that angle. It works so well from the line of the 14th because of the swale cut into the front left of the green, which wouldn't affect play as much from the 8th. I am also a huge fan of the 8th green. I don't think it gets much love at first because the right side seems open and relatively flat but the large lump centre/left of the green is a superb defence whenever the pin is anywhere near it. I am actually a big fan of the hole, it's a definite grower as you see the green and pin position effect play the more you play it.


Here are a few photos of the greens;


14th green;



Looking down on 14th from back of 8th green;



Looking back up 8th from same position;



Older ones from the front of 8th green, note how low the 14th flag is in background;


Tom Kelly

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Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2018, 08:11:40 AM »
A few photos showing the land for the new holes are below, taken a few weeks back when the weather wasn't quite so nice!


The new par 3 8th hole;

Playing across the carry of the present 14th.


The approach to the new 9th green from just short of the landing zone;



I recently heard from the club that the work is due to start next spring assuming all the planning continues smoothly.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 05:30:19 AM by Tom Kelly »

Sean_A

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Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2019, 05:31:32 AM »
Sorry, it's taken me a while to get around so this!


As Sean says there are some fairly big changes afoot at Liphook that are likely to take place over the next year or two, with the overall goal being to introduce tunnels under the road to avoid the awkward road crossings we presently have. The first tunnel will be between the 4th and 5th holes and won't affect the golf course but the second crossing will have to be moved from the present location between the current 14th and 15th holes as logistically a tunnel at that point is not possible due to the double issue of the road and railway bridge. Therefore the second tunnel will be from the current 9th green across the road to a car-park the club owns that is currently used by players teeing off the 10th tee at certain times. From that point there is already a pedestrian bridge under the railway line and out onto the land to the west of the current 15th fairway. For this to work the course needs a few tweaks to the routing so that the current 9th hole become the new 14th hole......Tom Mackenzie has been appointed and has come up with what seems like a good solution to the issues.


So it's bit hard to explain in words but pictures paint a thousand of them so here is a plan showing the new proposed routing;


White is the current routing with the dashed lines showing the holes/shots that will be lost. The purple lines show the new holes/routing. Please note the purple tee shot line on the current 9th/new 14th hole is only an option, I believe the existing tee will still be retained.





My opinion is that the club will be losing what are probably the 'weakest' tee shots on the course in 10, 14 & 15 which is a positive but will also be losing the set piece one shot 11th although you will still play to that green albeit as a par 4 (this was found to have been proposed by Tom Simpson long ago after the clubhouse moved from the pub and the 10th tee had to be built at the present location) and what I see as the biggest loss, the 14th green. I not a fan of the 14th hole overall but the green is a beauty. I hope the essence of this green can be incorporated into the two new greens being built. I think the success of the changes rests on the character of the two new greens and whether the the 9th hole can be pulled off with enough interest in what is quite a tight area.


Hopefully that makes sense, any questions just ask and I'll try to answer as best I can.

Cheers


Kicked forward for the TK take.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Tom Kelly

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Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2019, 10:50:49 AM »
Latest is that the work will start this summer as planning has now been approved.


Additional work has been mooted to extend the 12th into a par 5 by moving the green back. Would become the 11th hole and make the walk to the 12th (current 7th) tee much easier and safer to avoid crossing the present 13th for those taking a short cut. Again possibly a good change but although I'm not too fussed about it I think it would make the hole easier to par despite lengthening the course overall (members think longer is automatically harder....) and feel it is a shame to lose another original green. I've grown to really like the 12th green at present, perhaps they could copy it for the new green?


An interesting note is that the ground which the new green would occupy was once a par 3 hole that was taken out of play when the clubhouse moved to the current location and the 1st hole was built by Morrison.

Sean_A

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Re: Lovely LIPHOOK GC: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2020, 06:19:25 AM »
Tom, so will the 12th be pushed back and played as a three shotter? Have there been thoughts to do the opposite and move the 13th tee forward?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

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