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So here's my question: with woods left and trouble right, it being impossible to reach the green for most players, and an approach from short-right being one of the toughest spots, does this hole not become a bore with the prudent player always hitting hybrid(ish) to the centre/right part of the fairway, and SW into the slope of the green? I understand that in matchplay, things change, but there is no way a thinking player will ever hit driver here. Just so little reward for the added risk.
No doubt you know better than I, but it seems to me that the play is still to bail out right rather than run the risk of challenging the left. I see little or no benefit being on the left because of the shape of the green.
Great thread, I always enjoy Mark's pictures and we are lucky to have an expert on Dormie like Cory. I have to echo Jason's statement though, I'd been told that all the holes at Dormie went left?
Quote from: Mark Saltzman on November 03, 2011, 09:59:37 PMNo doubt you know better than I, but it seems to me that the play is still to bail out right rather than run the risk of challenging the left. I see little or no benefit being on the left because of the shape of the green.IMO the best angle is from the left. You have a clear view of the green and the pin, you can hit a bump and run, which I often encourage, and you can use the contours of the green to your advantage.
As for #15, I don't have the game to challenge the right side. But I'll bet good golfers do all the time.
Mark,What's wrong with a driveable par 4 that most/you can't drive?307 uphill is a mighty blast, yet certainly doable by some/many these days, particularly given the open approach.Too many modern par 4's are designed so many/most can have a go, which to me takes away the excitement of doing it(Do you really want to brag about driving a green everyone can reach?)Occasionally it's nice to have to blast one to do itSure it's less choices, but I'd hit driver as I like to be as close as possible(even though I couldn't reach )I love the simplicity of the hole-and I'd think it was cool if it was 330 -340 yards as well (a really unpopular distance)
I agree that this is a thoughtful thread and wish more were like it. But I also disagree with the premise. I think 15 offers the best players a large reward for a fairly large risk. Just because my game dictates that I should hit a three wood to the left side means the hole IS strategic. It offers me an option for a safer tee shot, but one that comes with a significant disadvantage: a much more difficult approach. Given the way modern balls/clubs allow good players to hit their drives, their must occassionally be a significant penalty to get their attention (the possible reload) and make them consider the options. Bart
Great thread! I think you are being a little severe in your assessments of options on these holes Mark. While most of us can't drive the green on that that short four, don't assume that every player will automatically hit what gets him/her closet for the next shot. Certain days, depending on wind or firmness, many players will hit much less off the tee so they can flight in something different than the stock lob or sand shot.I've walked the course and seen both of those holes twice, but I'm finally going to tee it up there this weekend and I'm totally juiced to play what I think is a superb golf course. With the proper refinements, the presentation when mature there, in a couple of years, will compare with some of C&C's best from my view. In fact, DC has a good chance of becoming as good an inland course as has been built in the last 10 years if the principles give it the love it deserves.Take elements of PV, Merion and Pinehurst #2, toss them in a dice shaker and spill them out on that undulating ground...it's pretty damn special!Cheers, Kris
Mark, thanks for the photos! I wonder if you have any of the waste/scrub area on the inside of #10, the par 5 (i think)?Also, how is the overall conditioning and the speed of the greens?
But what about missing left of the fairway. I recall there being some trees and pine needles over there. And from there does the green not slope directly away from you (because it slopes generally from left to right)? I, fortunately, did not hit one over there, but I think getting the ball on the green from there would be next to impossible.
Quote from: Ed Oden on November 03, 2011, 10:25:40 PMAs for #15, I don't have the game to challenge the right side. But I'll bet good golfers do all the time. Ed, I call bullsh*t. You're better than 97.4% of golfers who play Dormie. If you're not going for it, then I don't care about the small percentage of golfers who would.
Quote from: Mark Saltzman on November 04, 2011, 09:41:51 AMQuote from: Ed Oden on November 03, 2011, 10:25:40 PMAs for #15, I don't have the game to challenge the right side. But I'll bet good golfers do all the time. Ed, I call bullsh*t. You're better than 97.4% of golfers who play Dormie. If you're not going for it, then I don't care about the small percentage of golfers who would.Isn't it necessary to have occasional holes that only tempt one "class" of golfer? Surely all holes can't be all things to all golfers.Interesting thread regardless.