[Sven Nilsen]

I've played a few courses on extremely windy sites, including The Ocean Course, courses on both coasts in Ireland, the courses at Bandon, the two courses at Barnbougle and courses in the plains of the American west.  It strikes me that most of these are designed so that the majority of the holes play either into or with the  prevailing winds.

Is this the prevailing theme for windy sites?  If its coincidence, what factors contribute to making this so?  Would you prefer playing a "down or into the wind" course v. a "cross breeze" course?

[Garland Bayley]

You want all winds. Preferably the course changes direction with every hole so that you are playing a different wind every hole.

[Jason Connor]

Are you saying that most holes are parallel to the wind; and rarely perpendicular to the wind?

If so, I'd say that's because the wind usually comes from the ocean and holes tend to be parallel to the ocean.

[Wade Whitehead]

Holes 12-17 at Ballyhack play onto the windiest section of the property in a figure eight routing.  Every conceivable wind condition occurs over the stretch of six holes, including a variety of quartering winds.  The site is very windy (the course is just under Windy Gap Mountain) and absolutely anything can happen on the back nine on a blustery day.

WW

[Sven Nilsen]

Are you saying that most holes are parallel to the wind; and rarely perpendicular to the wind?

If so, I'd say that's because the wind usually comes from the ocean and holes tend to be parallel to the ocean.

Jason:

You described it correctly.  For example, take a pure out and back routing where the first 9 plays directly into the wind and the returning 9 plays straight downwind.

[Sean_A]

I've played a few courses on extremely windy sites, including The Ocean Course, courses on both coasts in Ireland, the courses at Bandon, the two courses at Barnbougle and courses in the plains of the American west.  It strikes me that most of these are designed so that the majority of the holes play either into or with the  prevailing winds.

Is this the prevailing theme for windy sites?  If its coincidence, what factors contribute to making this so?  Would you prefer playing a "down or into the wind" course v. a "cross breeze" course?

I think the prevailing theme for links sites anyway is which way the dunes run.  Its difficult to design many holes over dunes and still keep a straight face as a designer.  For sites which route along a beach cross winds are very common and I believe this is the most difficult type of wind - for me it is unquestionably wind off the left which I struggle in.  From my experience, Birkdale and Portrush are the two championship courses I think of first when I think of cross wind driving at least - both are very difficult tests with the driver.  Many holes turn at the driving zone which accentuates the problems of cross wind.  Portrush uses rough to kill guys and Birkdale has dunes.  There is no question in my mind that the player who can control his ball flight and move it either direction has a huge advantage in cross winds.  All that said, I do believe that the concept of prevailing wind in England at least is of far less importance than it used to be.  Wind seems to come from very different directions more than it used to.  Consequently, I think archies should be more mindful of wind coming from all directions when designing instead of relying on previous wind patterns in gauging the necessary width of a corridor and fairway.  In the UK this is the single biggest problem championship designs, they are not accomodating enough for the club member while focusing too much on championship play - the balance is out of sync.

Ciao  

[Tom_Doak]

As Sean suggests, on a site with big dunes you are often forced to build holes parallel with the lines of the dunes, which form along the line of the prevailing wind ... so you get lots of holes running into the wind and downwind, not so much crosswind.

I think that's actually a blessing, as it gives you a bit more chance to control the ball.  I know that in theory, it would be great to have holes running in every direction ... but in PRACTICE, on a very windy site, it's not so much fun to play crosswind more than once or twice.  I think that's the reason a fair number of people favor Barnbougle over Lost Farm.  Playing in a 30-MPH crosswind is hard for anybody, and darn near impossible for the average golfer.

[David Cronheim]

As Sean suggests, on a site with big dunes you are often forced to build holes parallel with the lines of the dunes, which form along the line of the prevailing wind ... so you get lots of holes running into the wind and downwind, not so much crosswind.

I think that's actually a blessing, as it gives you a bit more chance to control the ball.  I know that in theory, it would be great to have holes running in every direction ... but in PRACTICE, on a very windy site, it's not so much fun to play crosswind more than once or twice.  I think that's the reason a fair number of people favor Barnbougle over Lost Farm.  Playing in a 30-MPH crosswind is hard for anybody, and darn near impossible for the average golfer.

I couldn't agree with you more, Tom. I was watching the British Open this year and the announcers were discussing how hard it was to warm up in a left to right wind. Since the ranges on my two home clubs are aligned so that the prevailing wind is right to left, I thought they were exaggerating. The next week, we had a strong gale from the non-prevailing direction. I warmed up in a left to right crosswind and played in the same gale crosswind. It was one of the worst rounds I've played in years.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think its hard to design for the wind. It changes a lot in the UK for certain from all points of the compass and whilst there is a prevailing wind the land dictates much more the routing. My take would be ... after the routing you might consider the complexity of a greens area in deciding the bunkering and at tougher holes be kinder.

[Sven Nilsen]

As Sean suggests, on a site with big dunes you are often forced to build holes parallel with the lines of the dunes, which form along the line of the prevailing wind ... so you get lots of holes running into the wind and downwind, not so much crosswind.

I think that's actually a blessing, as it gives you a bit more chance to control the ball.  I know that in theory, it would be great to have holes running in every direction ... but in PRACTICE, on a very windy site, it's not so much fun to play crosswind more than once or twice.  I think that's the reason a fair number of people favor Barnbougle over Lost Farm.  Playing in a 30-MPH crosswind is hard for anybody, and darn near impossible for the average golfer.

Tom:

What concerns arise when working on a site with the potential for high winds (like Barnbougle) as opposed to a site that will generally be calmer (lets use Beechtree as an example)?

[Sean_A]

I think its hard to design for the wind. It changes a lot in the UK for certain from all points of the compass and whilst there is a prevailing wind the land dictates much more the routing. My take would be ... after the routing you might consider the complexity of a greens area in deciding the bunkering and at tougher holes be kinder.

Adrian

I largely agree.  The bunkering can make all the difference in the world.  I was just trying to realte this about some places at Deal.. The bunkering cuts off the realistic line of approach considering the wind in a few places where I think it could be kinder.  While bunkering is not the issue, Burnham's 14th suffers the same problem - here just isn't enough space to approach if the wind is moderately strong.  This is a problem on many drives, but the club has been more vigilant in the past few years with controlling the rough.  The result is a far better golfing experience during the summer months.

Ciao

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