[Troy Alderson]

As I was looking at some old pictures of early golf, I came to re-realize that golf in the early days may have been considered, much like we today, going to the lake or a day hike.  Golf courses were called country clubs for a reason, they were in the country away from the city life.

Maybe that is a marketing tool the industry could use to show how we view golf, an outing away for the hustle and bustle of living.  Much like someone would go to the lake or ride a bike or find a trail to hike.

Thoughts?

[Mike Cirba]

Troy,

I think this is a spot-on observation, particularly in the early days in the United States.

I was researching Trenton Country Club recently, and it was clear from the description that all the original members thought they needed to do for a golf course was locate some areas for tees and greens, and a cow was described as effective as a lawn mower for keeping the greens trimmed to a playable length.

They formed the club in October, and during a November visit tried to get some holes underway.

The course opened in March and by May, was described as overtaking tennis in popularity with the members.

We make it far too complicated and add way too many accoutrements.    Golf is a simple game, or should be.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Troy

Please define 'Early' - you mean early American circa 1895 to say 1915 and not GB & I early.

Melvyn

[Willie_Dow]

Troy - We have a short course laid out in 1914 as an "early recreation plan".  The original Charter states that "The Association will not conduct any business of any kind and is practically the incorporation of a Golf Club with the intention of increasing the scope of its activities along the mutual improvement lines for the members."

There is a movement afloat to introduce our land into a conservation restriction.

What affect will this have on our golf course ?

[Kris Shreiner]

Willie,

While not a lawyer, I have had some experience working with land use and conservation easements, which I imagine is along the lines of what your club is investigating. Generally, these property-owner options are excellent oportunities to place land in a protected state that prohibits overbuilding and drastic change development-wise.

Frequently, parcels of land are given tax breaks if owners agree to certain stipulations which can vary in scope depending on how strict community laws are for the program. While a decision on this should have careful consideration prior to commiting to it, most folks I've been involved with, who have entered into these agreements, have found them full of positives and very few negatives, unless one wants to develop the land for profit at a future date.

Golf course property would seem to be a good candidate for a conservation easement and there are several quality organizations that can assist in evaluating the property to help provide good information for members to make a sound decision. IM me if you want more info and we can chat.

Cheers,
Kris

[Tom MacWood]

Melvyn has tendency to exaggerate. There were relatively few courses in the UK prior to 1890, and they experienced explosive growth in the 1890s. It is also true in the UK that during that period the upper and upper middle classes were trying to get out of the grime of the major metroplitain areas and into the country.

[Peter Pallotta]

Troy - two quick points: 1) I think you'll increasingly see (in fact, are already seeng) a dramatic rise in the appeal of the far flung and radically natural golf coursey, e.g Ballyneal. 2) I think you're right about early golf - here's two quotes from Haultain's Mystery of Golf (1908) that sure seem to focus on the walk in nature:

"Golf is unique, too, in that it can be played anywhere -- on lone seashores or crowded heaths, over high road and hedge, amid  moss and weed, on the veldt, on the prairie, on the mead."

"…And how beautiful the vacated links at dawn, when the dew gleams untrodden beneath the pendant flags and the long shadows lie quiet on the green; when no caddie intrudes upon the still and silent lawns, and you stroll from hole to hole and drink in the beauties of a land to which you know will be all too blind when the sun mounts high and you toss for the honour!"

Peter

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Waverley Country Club here in Portland is the second oldest club west of the Mississippi (built in 1896) and it was originally polo grounds along the banks of the Willamette River. That was certainly the country back then.

[Jason Topp]

I read a history of the American Country Club last year and it defined the early purpose of a country club as being a group of people that could not afford country estates pooling resources so they could have the amenities of such an estate while sharing the expense. 

I think this is the book but the cover is different than the version I read:

http://www.ebay.com/ctg/American-Country-Club-Its-Origins-and-Development-1998-Hardcover-/357164

[Mike Cirba]

Related to this topic is the fact that many of the early US golf course related their lengths in overall mileage, not overall yardage of the course.

[Dan Kelly]

Maybe that is a marketing tool the industry could use to show how we view golf, an outing away for the hustle and bustle of living.  Much like someone would go to the lake or ride a bike or find a trail to hike.

Thoughts?

My only thought is: In too much of golf today, there is too much hustle and bustle to have get-away-from-the-hustle-and-bustle be very effective as a marketing approach.

I agree with Mike Cirba: "We make it far too complicated and add way too many accoutrements."

I'm thinking of Rick Shefchik as I look at this thread, for two reasons:

(1) He's finishing up a book about the classic Minnesota golf clubs -- many of which began, in fact, as COUNTRY clubs, and pretty humbly at that.

(2) His home course, Stillwater CC, still has that simple, get-away-from-the-hustle-and-bustle quality, from everything I've heard.

[Melvyn Morrow]

I asked a simple question

Troy

Please define 'Early' - you mean early American circa 1895 to say 1915 and not GB & I early.

Melvyn

I get as usual on this site no answers but just a pile of crap, this time from T MacWood. His comments reads as follows

Melvyn has tendency to exaggerate. There were relatively few courses in the UK prior to 1890, and they experienced explosive growth in the 1890s. It is also true in the UK that during that period the upper and upper middle classes were trying to get out of the grime of the major metroplitain areas and into the country.
Just what have I said in my one line question that can be defined as “tendency to exaggerate”

To correct Tom, let me say there were adequate courses in Scotland pre 1890, inland as well as Links courses, nevertheless that is totally irrelevant to my original question.

[Ulrich Mayring]

In 1888 I believe there were 73 in Scotland, 57 in England, 6 in Ireland and 2 in Wales.

Not sure about RoW, maybe even less than 10?

Ulrich

[paul cowley]

Ulrich...now I find that very interesting indeed! Thank you.

[Tom MacWood]

According to Sir Guy Campbell these are the early courses in England, and the year of their founding:

1864 Westward Ho!
1865 Wimbledon
1869 Hoylake, Alnmouth
1875 Seaton Carew, Cambridge, Oxford
1878 Royal Jersey
1880 Bath, Kingsdown, Felixstowe
1882 Bembridge, Minehead
1883 Hayling Island, Great Yarmouth
1884 Formby, Aldeburgh, Aldershot
1885 Woolwich
1886 Guilford, Lytham
1887 Sandwich, Nottinghamshire, Cromer, Eastbourne, Ascot, Buxton & High Peak, Durham, Coventry, Chatham
1888 Littlestone, Winchester, Tooting Bec
1889 St. Enodoc, Huddersfield, Minchinghampton

[Melvyn Morrow]

What no mention of Blackheath GC 1608 so much for the modern researcher, missed the oldest club, wow

So much for Sir Guy.

[Troy Alderson]

Troy

Please define 'Early' - you mean early American circa 1895 to say 1915 and not GB & I early.

Melvyn

Melvyn,

Yes    Actually I am thinking both.  I do not think the mind set was much different between the two areas.

[Troy Alderson]

Waverley Country Club here in Portland is the second oldest club west of the Mississippi (built in 1896) and it was originally polo grounds along the banks of the Willamette River. That was certainly the country back then.

Thank you Emile, I know Waverley well and the history of the polo grounds.  Congratulations on the restoration project.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Troy

One of the many reasons why golf exploded out into the general populace in Scotland was the new train system winding its way through the country. With the facility of the trains people travelled around their part of the country – not many miles but enough to see the horizon. It was at this time that Steamers and Piers started to come into their own making sites like Machrie on Islay very popular destination. Courses close to the Steamer/harbours benefitted by the day-trippers. This started in the 1880’s and continued until just prior to WW1. Places like Strathpeffer Spa (near Inverness) not well know today but they had direct train routes from London. The railways opened up the country and golf as well as helped formed clubs that welcomed the extra revenue being formed in the main by the Golf loving public and no longer just by the landed gentry.

It was due to the general public interest and the ability to commute to these new courses, be they at the seaside on the Isles or inland which gave Golf the kick start and ability to travel. Previously most of the overseas courses started from Scotsman based either in the military or doing business in these remote areas lands. Look to places like Lahinch, its beginnings started via the Scottish regiments stationed in the area.

The trains brought the visitors, who in turn brought money to the clubs allowing the clubs to lease better land or buy their own land, then erect clubhouses. All that came from club funds boosted by the day-tripper. That tradition is well and still in place to this day allowing Visitors to play 99% of our courses in GB&I.

Melvyn

[Mike Cirba]

Melvyn,

Thanks for the information.   Trains were a big impetus to golf course development in the US, as well.   It's amazing how many of our classic courses have train tracks adjacent, many abandoned, but many still functional.

Two questions....how many golf courses would you say existed in Scotland prior to 1890 and related to that question, did any "informal" courses exist that weren't necessarily associated with clubs?

In other words, I'd imagine that there might be a course laid out and played by the locals in a town somewhere without any formal structure like a club governing its usage, which is consistent with the theme of this thread.   Do we find any evidence of that in early Scotland golf?

[Tom MacWood]

My mistake, Sir Guy did mention the primitive course at Blackheath, as well as Molesey Hurst and Old Manchester. As you can see the growth was relatively slow in the 1870s and 1880s, and it was not until the 1890s that course development really took off. There were a number of factors including transportation and the ability to purchase land, which allowed, among other things, city dwellers to move out into the country, and to places like Surrey, Berkshire, etc. There was also a change of attitude regarding the working week, and an emphasis on leisure activities, which often took place in the country. I would estimate 500+ golf courses were built in a ten to fifteen year period after 1890.

1608 Blackheath
1758 Molesey
1818 Old Manchester
1864 Westward Ho!
1865 Wimbledon
1869 Hoylake, Alnmouth
1875 Seaton Carew, Cambridge, Oxford
1878 Royal Jersey
1880 Bath, Kingsdown, Felixstowe
1882 Bembridge, Minehead
1883 Hayling Island, Great Yarmouth
1884 Formby, Aldeburgh, Aldershot
1885 Woolwich
1886 Guilford, Lytham
1887 Sandwich, Nottinghamshire, Cromer, Eastbourne, Ascot, Buxton & High Peak, Durham, Coventry, Chatham
1888 Littlestone, Winchester, Tooting Bec
1889 St. Enodoc, Huddersfield, Minchinghampton

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mike

I presume you are referring to courses with no association with a club or any formal golfing house. If that is the case then the following list of 10 should give you an idea of the early recorded sites and locations.


Perth      1502
Carnoustie   1527       5 Holes by 1830
Montrose   1562       7 Holes by 1810
Musselburgh   1567       7 Holes by 1832
ST Andrews   1574      12 Holes by 1764
Dornoch   1619
Leith      1619       5 Holes in 1744
Aberdeen   1625
Burntsfield   1711       6 Holes by 1818
Glasgow Green  1721

Hope it is of some help.

Melvyn

[Mike Cirba]

Melvyn,

Yes, that's precisely what I'm talking about....

Places where golf was played, most likely very informally by the townsfolk, perhaps even with variable holes and courses, either on the links or other common areas, but without the governance and structure of a formal club.

I would imagine that's how golf began and prospered in those areas for probably decades if not centuries before becoming more "organized" around clubs and other structural parameters.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Mike

I presume you are referring to courses with no association with a club or any formal golfing house. If that is the case then the following known list of 10 should give you an idea of the early recorded sites and locations.


Perth      1502
Carnoustie                   1527
Montrose                   1562
Musselburgh   1567
ST Andrews   1574
Dornoch                   1619
Leith      1619
Aberdeen                   1625
Burntsfield                   1711
Glasgow Green            1721

Hope it is of some help.

Melvyn

Hi Melvyn,

Which of these links now have clubs and courses playing over approximately the same land?... Obviously Leith is no longer there and Aberdeen refers to the Queen's Links which played to the south (but with approximately the same starting point) as the current King's Links course....

Most of the others must be in roughly the same places, surely?... What about Glasgow Green though?... I have never heard of it....

Thanks,
Ally

P.S. the trains is an important observation and certainly backs up the golf as a country outing topic...

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mike

the dates are approx and will go back further, Dornoch 400 years of recorded golf is being celebrated in 2016 not 2019, Perth is patchy and will be rather older . I have as I have checked on some records been able to give the number of Holes at specific dated in the history on the land.

Melvyn

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