[JNC Lyon]

After seeing Lederach today for the first time, I was reminded how interesting bunkerless greens can be.  This was something learned well in the British Isles, but I really had it hammered home today.  The greens at 1, 3, 5 and 12 are bunkerless and are phenomenal holes.

What are some of your favorite bunkerless greens?  A few choices of mine:

3, 6 and 17 at Deal
4 at Huntercombe
2 at Long Shadow
3 at Morgan Hill
13 at North Berwick
10 at Renaissance

MORE IMPORTANT QUESTION: Do bunkerless greens lend themselves to more options, both with the approach shot and around the green?  Bunkers only present one short game option (unless they are very shallow, a type of bunker I am warming to), and they often restrict ground options.  Are bunkerless greens preferable to those with a liberal use of bunkering?

[David_Tepper]

#14 (Foxy) at Royal Dornoch

[JNC Lyon]

Of course! How could I forget about Foxy?

What would this green be like if it had a bunker or two around the green?  Would it sacrifice options or merely character?

[mike_beene]

18 at TOC with the valley of sin making things Interesting

[David_Tepper]

John -

It is hard to imagine the green at Foxy would be better defended with a greenside bunker or two. Those slopes in front of the green repel any poorly hit approach shot and force the ball to roll 20-30 yards away from the green.

I would much rather be playing my 3rd shot from a greenside bunker rather than have to decide whether to putt, chip or pitch my 3rd shot from a tight lie while I was 20-30 yards from the green.

DT 

[Peter Ferlicca]

Two of the bunkerless greens at Stone Eagle; #1 and #4

#1, you hit an approach shot to a angle green that has three tiers, if you are not on the right tier you are most likely to get a three putt unless you hit a fantastic first putt.

#4, this is one of the best holes at Stone Eagle, the green is wild.  It has two saddles on each side and then a big set of breasts in the middle of the green one at 6 o clock and another at 12 o clock.  This makes it extremely difficult if you have to putt from one side of the green to the other.  #4 doesn't have any bunkers and is one of the best holes I will ever play.  I swear the tee shot combined with the green makes one hell of a golf hole. 

[Sean_A]

JNC

As you know Burnham has 9 bunkerless greens and as probably don't know Pennard has 8.  This lack of bunkering is one of the best traits of both these courses and really helps to distinguish them by relying on the land more than many other courses do.    With very few exceptions my favourite courses are relatively light on sand no matter where placed.  I don't know how many pix of greens I see and think the hole would be better without sand.  For some reason archies don't want to trust to a good green site with a clever green being enough to get the job down.  I wonder if green speeds have made it harder for archies to create that interest?

Ciao

[Leo Barber]

Paraparaumu Beach only has 35 bunkers in total across its links and 4 of the holes are completely bunkerless, 1,5,13 and 16.  These greens complexes however rate amongst the most clever on the course with short grass and undulations creating subtle strategy.  These complexes are possibly the most difficult to negotiate as well.



5th Hole



13th Hole



16th Hole

[Ben Sims]

Leo,

One day my friend, one day.  Those shots look great.  Pram is on the short list.

With all the dunes around and some dramatic bunkering in places, a lot of folks forget that Ballyneal has a relatively low number of true green side bunkers.  I remember several holes that have a bunker nearby, but play like a bunkerless green.  I know that 9 has one on back, but it seems to be out of play.  15 (Dell) has one off to the left up on the dune, but I feel like it's a bit out of play as well.  The only true bunkerless green is 14, and it's really well done in my opinion with the big swale short right.

[Rory Connaughton]

Lancaster 11
Enniscrone 15-17

[Travis Dewire]

The 7th hole at Brae Burn, in Newton, Ma, has a nice bunkerless green on hole 7. Hole travels uphill to a green site perched into a hill, with the land sloping hard and steep to the front/left, and left part of the greens. Generally there is some fescue in that direction, as well as the hilltop overlooking the right side of the approach fairway, and green. Beyond the green is a 7 foot grade, covered in fescue, which holds the 8th tees. Going long to such an uphill hole is difficult, but when you do, you are above the hole, in deep rough or fescue, everything running away from you - not fun.  The Cheesecake brooke, which runs the whole property, intersects the fairway at about 130 yrds on the right, and 115 yrds on the left (diagnol, but out of play unless you are a long ball hiiter, or have to lay up, and can not make it over the carry). To carry the creek to the next fairway, there is a good 10 foot steep hill, traveling up from the creek's bank, so a lay up is no easy task. The green is "flat" but will break a ton, and it sits unobstructed from trees, so the sun really gets the green moving.

The pond was added in the 80's. Just beyond the pond, were two fairway bunkers, put in by Ross, either in 1912 or 1928. They were since removed, I am not sure when, but my guess is in the 80's when Brian Silva did some course work. The 7th hole, is the original 2nd hole, built in 1897, and has remained in play, and bunkerless, since its inception. Great hole, and after 6 challenging, challenging holes, the 7th is no breather, but birdies have been known to be found here.



this is a shot from 97 looking back down the hole, from above the green



a view up the hill, from around the 30's or 40's. You can see the hole snaking up hill, with the land falling left, and the green, bunkelrlessly perched straight away

[Travis Dewire]

[Travis Dewire]

why don't pictures load? I put them into the [img] brackets, and it is closed with the closing bracket. Tried putting in with the file extension (jpg), and without, both times did not work

Have had lots and lots of problems uploading pictures....any help please??

[mike_malone]

 I think it is more important not to have bunkers on the ideal side to come to the green if there is random, interesting land. Might I be thinking of #7 at Rolling Green?

[Kalen Braley]

why don't pictures load? I put them into the [img]http://brackets, and it is closed with the closing bracket. Tried putting in with the file extension (jpg), and without, both times did not work

Have had lots and lots of problems uploading pictures....any help please??

Your 2nd bracket needs to include a "/" before img

[James Boon]

John,

Plenty at Burnham as Sean has already said. Here are my favourites, some of which have already been mentioned:

1, 3 and 14 at Burnham & Berrow
14 at Royal Dornoch
3 and 6 at Deal
5, 6 and 14 at Royal Portrush
5 at Royal Worlington & Newmarket
17 at Hunstanton

With a great green site, you don't always need bunkers, well actually as far as the whole course is concerned, when it comes to bunkers, less is more as they say. But I'd say there are too many variables to say for certain that a bunkerless green gives you more options. But I expect they lull a lot of people used to bunkers into having a false sense of security?

John -

It is hard to imagine the green at Foxy would be better defended with a greenside bunker or two. Those slopes in front of the green repel any poorly hit approach shot and force the ball to roll 20-30 yards away from the green.

I would much rather be playing my 3rd shot from a greenside bunker rather than have to decide whether to putt, chip or pitch my 3rd shot from a tight lie while I was 20-30 yards from the green.

DT 

David,

I wouldn't have Foxy any other way, and I can see where you are coming from regarding that you would rather be in a bunker but if its a real deep one, awkward lie, one leg in, one out, coming out backwards... are you sure?

Cheers,

James

[Sean_A]

Boony

Interesting.  I would take #s 7 & 15 as my favourite non-bunker greens at Burnham. 

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

Boony

Interesting.  I would take #s 7 & 15 as my favourite non-bunker greens at Burnham. 

Ciao

I have been playing Burnham for 35 years, no one mentions that only half the greens are bunkered, that I think is great testament to the quality of the defence of those greens. 15 is my fave, lovely options to feed.

[Sean_A]

Adrian

No, I don't hear many people lamenting the lack of sand at Burnham.  The balance of sand, humps/hollows and wind is about as good as it gets.  The only real drawback is the out n' back routing which creates long stretches of similar wind.  I still think that if they had a few million quid and a good designer, the current courses could be scrapped and an all world one built.

That 15th green is my favourite on the course.  The borrows are incredibly deceptive. 

Ciao

[JNC Lyon]

Sean, I loved the bunkerless greens at Burnham, and I agree that 7 and 15 are two of the best.

Are bunkerless greens inherently more nature and therefore more desirable than green complexes that contain bunkers.  I can only imagine how I would feel about greens like Dornoch's 14th or Deal's 6th if they were marred with bunkers for aesthetic purposes.

In fact, I felt a few of Lederach's greens, particularly the 2nd and the 17th, could be improved with the elimination of a bunker or two.

[Tony_Chapman]

14 at Augusta (that I haven't played) and 6 at Wild Horse (the entire hole is bunkerless).

[Sean_A]

Sean, I loved the bunkerless greens at Burnham, and I agree that 7 and 15 are two of the best.

Are bunkerless greens inherently more nature and therefore more desirable than green complexes that contain bunkers.  I can only imagine how I would feel about greens like Dornoch's 14th or Deal's 6th if they were marred with bunkers for strategic purposes.

In fact, I felt a few of Lederach's greens, particularly the 2nd and the 17th, could be improved with the elimination of a bunker or two.

JNC

I don't really know.  Perhaps much of it comes down to one's eye for design.  I think a lot of people expect and want to see sand as a major influence on green design.  Its also could be a matter of terrain.  Some designers may be hesitant to push dirt around in creating humps/hollows but not so in creating bunkers - maybe its "safer" to do this.  My eye is more attuned to seeing rolling linksland or even sharp features such as at Huntercombe instead of bunkers (which probably explains why I like the hidden look of revetted or grass face bunkers compared to sand faced ones).  I often find sand jarring to look and when something stands out like that I then begin to question if its needed or makes the hole better.  Even then, I am inclined to prefer one bunker.  Although, sometimes a setting is just right and a load of bunkers looks good.  Burnham's 9th is a good example of an attractive multiple bunker green site.  

Then I could look at Pennard's 11th and wonder why the bunker is there.  Its a superb greensite that needs no sand.

Now compare that to Burnham's 7th and I bet most people would pick that hoel as a real dud aesthetically speaking, but once you get to know the hole beauty can take on a different meaning.


Ciao

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Baltray has a great green complex on the back nine that is bunkerless

[Ian_L]

The Dell hole at Lahinch.

[Chris Flamion]

While I obviously have no where near the experience of most people on this board when it comes to bunkerless greens, I can say that I love them.  My favorite shots around greens are usually shots bounding over grass and watching the ball feed toward the cup.  I have yet to come across a bunker that allows me to chip out and use the hill between me and the cup as a method of slowing down the ball.

As a side note I wish there were simply more greens around that had more fairway than rough within 10 yards of the green.

Chris

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