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Sean_A

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Colt's Cunning CAMBERLEY HEATH New
« on: April 13, 2010, 06:59:17 PM »
After the Other Muldoon came up trumps with his suggestion of Oxford I decided to follow his advice and pull up at Camberley Heath. Designed in 1913, fairly early in Colt's career, Camberley is a joy to play.  However, I will get the bad points squared away immediately so as to try and not harp on the negative too much. First, the bunkering is a slop job.  One will clearly see this as the tour progresses.  Second, the pond on 16 - huh!  Its a shocker.  Mind you, the hole with or without a pond is drab.  I think a great many of the "improvements" were made when a Japanese contingent owned the course, including the huge clubhouse and the mounding behind #3 when the underpass was built.  I was struck by all the mounding around the course.  I haven't seen another Colt course use this element so blatantly, mind you, much of this handiwork is diminished by tree growth which isn't too harsh, but it does annoy at times.  On to the course.

#1 brings a promising start.  The hole originally played from a tee perhaps 40 yards behind the present one in an area just in front of where the old clubhouse used to stand. 




True to Colt's standards, all the short holes are a delight.  The 2nd is particularly good because the green has two tiers and a ridge bisecting the green into left and right halves as well. 




The three-shot 3rd is a terrific hole and the favourite of many.  If one hits an average drive the alps-like hill poses an interesting dilemma. 


The unmissable mounding behind the green is probably a visual block of nearby Chobham Rd.


We now cross under the Chobham Road for what is half the course.  The walk pays off for the the 4th is a gem of a hole which is drivable, but not without its risks.  I am not sure who did much of the work at Camberley, but it is obvious this green is new.  I suspect the green was grade level at one time and leaning away from the fairway.  The new green is quite good and I like how it angles from left to right.


Like the 3rd, #5 requires big hitting, but the card is rather miserly in only offering four shots to cover 495 yards.  I spose this is as good a hole as any to point out the lack of attention to details, which while not deal breakers, are important in the experience of the course.  Fairway lines, scrubby trees inside the main tree line and wishy washy bunkering are issues which the club need to sort out. 




It is a shame the sixth comes so closely after the fourth for its another drivable two-shotter.  Its set-up is rather similar to the 4th, legging left with oob down the left and bunkers everywhere. 




The following hole used to play straightaway, but a tee was placed near the lay-up area for the 6th hole which created a dogleg right.  Its a better hole, but I am not sure it is worth the 100 yard walk.  Perhaps if the bunkers were better integrated I would change my mind.  The approach is deceptively uphill and dead ends into the fairway corridor of #10. This routing technique was used to great effect by Braid at Pennard.

The 8th is a solid benched-green par 3 with its aesthetics crossed a bit by the path.
 

The outward nine finishes with a shortish par 5 cutting up the head of a little valley.  This is a hole Tom Simpson was involved in designing, but I fear it has been greatly altered. 


The second isn't terribly onerous, but the player needs to keep right, near more curious mounds to earn the best angle of the approach.  In recent years the green has been extended to accommodate more difficult hole locations. 




Much like a links, the golfer is now at the furthest point away from the clubhouse.  The property, which looks like an arched ballerina's foot, is not suitable for two loops of nine.  However, Colt creatively designed a routing whereby one can play a perfectly flowing nine holes by jumping to the adjacent tee 13th after playing #3.   Additionally, there are a few other opportunities to easily cut short a full round if so desired.  The 10th is a double valley hole over heather and canting severely to the right. The photo below is taken from just shy of the first crest.  Even from here the second dip isn't obvious.


A longish par 3, the 11th features a flat landing area short of the green.  Often times for the British archies of Colt's era this sort of characteristic signals a front to back green.


The modest length 12th offers a break by playing over flat ground.  The foliage to the rear of the green hides more huge mounding.  There is also some wild stuff down the left. I know I keep hammering on about the mounding, but I found it to be incredible.  If I didn't know Camberley Heath was a Colt course I would swear Fowler had a hand in its design.  After crossing once again under the Chobham Road we play the final three-shotter.  As on the tenth, heather cuts the 13th  fairway in two and thus thwarts the flat belly from driving to the bottom of the hill.   




#14 takes us back to the house.  There are a handful of sloping front to back greens, but this short hole's green is the most severe of this type and thus explains the placement of the forward bunker.  Notice the wee mound to the rear of the green.  This is much more what I think of the typical Colt mounding which invariably frames greens. 


The short, two-shotter 15th has a blind drive and plays to a corner of the course.  It feels a bit like Colt ran out of room in this section of the property.


The 16th showcases what has to be one of the worst features I have ever seen added to a Colt course...enough said!  Thankfully, the remaining two holes bring us home in style.  The penultimate hole asks the golfer to play well left to earn a solid view of the hole by remaining on the same level as the green.  However, this safe play isn't at all obvious!  The play to the right is shorter, but must flirt with the bunker and it leaves an obscured approach.

The home hole is a doozy.  It reminds me of a shortened version of St Enodoc's 10th!  Is the play right or down the skinny strip of fairway to the left?  Today this wasn't a difficult decision, but I can imagine the golfer leaning into a cold winter's wind and not coming up with the correct choice, if there is one.  I don't imagine Colt thought golfers could carry the hill so the choice looks to be more limited back in his day.




The approach if one successfully carries the hill, although many can drive this green.


A look at Simpson's wild 18th green with the old house in the background. This green was some distance short and a bit right of the current green....which created more of a dogleg effect from the tee.


Camberley Heath rises wonderfully above the disjointed, sometimes misplaced bunkers and the odd feature or two which rankle.  The routing is superb and affords all manner of holes; valley, double valley, up n' overs, flat, sidehill - did I miss anything?  This course is a bit too inconsistent to be in the league with some of the well known courses of London, but I think Camberley Heath stands apart because of its very good 3s and 5s.  The course does, however, seem to suffer from soft greens and for this reason I can't give it a 1*.  If anything Camberley Heath demonstrates how deep the quality of golf around London is and that one needn't necessarily pay top whack for interesting, fun, quality golf.

If folks do decide to visit Camberley Heath, be sure to take a look at the trophy case behind the pro shop.  There is a touching display of Molly Gourlay memorabilia.  Several medals, paper clippings, posters etc are the mainstay of the collection.  Sadly, no mention is made of Mrs Gourlay's architectural contributions at Ballybunion or County Louth, but one can't help but be impressed by her career as a golfer.   Rumour has it that when Simpson made minor changes at Camberley Heath that Molly Gourlay was the supervising architect.  2014

Simpson and Gourlay supervising work..I wish I knew where.


Gourlay showing off her graceful swing.


Ciao     
« Last Edit: February 03, 2022, 08:55:18 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

JNC Lyon

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2010, 08:20:44 PM »
Sean,

I cannot believe I missed out on this!  Today was ideal for golf, and tt looks like a fantastic layout.  Like West Hill, Worplesdon, and Huntercombe, I had never heard about Camberley Heath until I got here.  It appears to be very quirky.  Is this true?
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Tim Gavrich

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 09:33:48 PM »
Sean--

I have greatly enjoyed this long parade of photo tours of UK courses.  I am starting to think that there are no less-than-very good golf courses in the UK!

I for one would love to see the other 13 holes at Camberley Heath if you have the time to take us through them.

Cheers.

--Tim
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Sean_A

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2010, 04:31:29 AM »
I will try to finish the tour tomorrow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 08:17:23 PM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

John Chilver-Stainer

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (front 9)
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 03:33:57 AM »
Sean,

Once again a great photo tour - and in spite of only 3 replies up to now is a real welcome thread among some of the OT’s out there - looking forward to the second  9.

I was interested on your comment “First, the bunkering is a slop job”.

Can you elaborate?

Gareth Williams

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (all 18)
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2010, 06:47:40 AM »
Nice write up Sean and good to bump into you after your round  ;)

As I mentioned the previous owners of CH have, over the years, done quite a few things that have (to a point) ruined a nice little course/club.

The most obvious and awful change is the Koi Carp pond on the 16th hole. Picture the 18th at St. Andrews Old with a pond and fountain (and throw in a few gargoyles for good measure..) and you're about there for how inappropriate and ugly it is.....thanks to the Japanese owners.

Also the course feels far more "hemmed in" than years gone by as owners have sold off significant parcels of land for property development as means to supplement the club finances. This is especially evident for the front nine and around the turn.

It's only a small point but I hate the 15th hole and the stupid big mirror to see where you are driving - and if it is clear!! What's wrong with a bell?!?! As you rightly say Sean it does feel somewhat shoe horned in between the 14th and 16th.

Lastly the clubhouse is quite possibly the ugliest I have ever seen!! The "old" clubhouse was a classic home counties early 20th Century design not unlike those at the three W's. From recollection the old one was deemed a fire hazard, hence the addition of the new (current) one to replace it.

For me the 3rd is a wonderful hole and sets up so well - as do the 8th/9th and 10th. With a little work the course could be a lot better but it's one of the more interesting (and frustrating) courses in the immediate area.


Robin_Hiseman

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (all 18)
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2010, 09:15:21 AM »
Sean

I love your photo essays - definitely one of the best things about this site.  Keep 'em coming.

I drive past Camberley Heath on a daily basis, yet have only played there once in 5 years of living here.  I think that needs to be redressed this summer.

With regard to the giant mounds at the back of 3 and 12, I would think they have a lot to do with the adjacent tunnel under the road.  Firstly, as a method of screening the dark black hole of the tunnel portals, but also as a means of getting rid of the spoil.  I could be wrong, but that's my take on them.
2022: Al Mouj; Cleeve Hill, Painswick, Minch Old, Weybrook Park, The Astbury, Silloth, Royal Balfron, Strathendrick, Archerfield (Fidra), Roxburghe, Stoneham, Woburn (Marquess), JCB, Pyrford, Hayling, Clandon, Wentworth (East), Ashbourne, East Sussex National (West)

Jon Earl

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (all 18)
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2010, 12:03:42 PM »
Sean

Great tour as usual.

Although the entrance is wider, the 8th superficially looks similar to the 4th at Swinley. How do they compare (if at all)?

Thanks

Jon
Splosh! One of the finest sights in the world: the other man's ball dropping in the water - preferably so that he can see it but cannot quite reach it and has therefore to leave it there, thus rendering himself so mad that he loses the next hole as well.

Scott Warren

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (all 18)
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 12:06:26 PM »
It certainly does, Jon. Good pick-up.

Gareth Williams

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (all 18)
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2010, 04:35:51 PM »
Sean

Great tour as usual.

Although the entrance is wider, the 8th superficially looks similar to the 4th at Swinley. How do they compare (if at all)?

Thanks

Jon



Very different hole Jon.

The 8th at CH is played slightly down hill and it is a much longer hole than the 4th at Swinley Forest. Also the green at CH is quite an easy putting surface whereas the 4th at SF is anything but that.

For me the 4th at Swinley Forest is a far superior hole.

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (all 18)
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 05:41:11 PM »
Once again thanks Sean.  

What are the great relatively unsung Heathland courses I've yet to play?

Camberley, Hankley, Reigate Heath, Liphook, Blackmoor, Copt...

This looks a blast, one of the most photogenic courses (if you ignore the houses), but then who ever listens to their younger brother? ;)





If Adrian reads this perhaps he can persude Marc Haring to make a swansong on this site. I believe he was the Head Greenkeeper when the changes were forced on the course.  I always enjoyed his contributions and it's sad he's given all this up.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 06:01:03 PM by Tony_Muldoon »
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Scott Macpherson

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (all 18)
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2010, 06:06:34 PM »
Hi Sean,

I spent two days studying this course in preparation of our 'Colt' course we are currently building in Newcastle (UK). I too was quite taken by it, and the work the team at the Club are putting into the course. This is an original Colt design opened in 1913. It was built for £20,000. It is par 71, at 6426 yards (so not overly long), but there are some great contours and slopes that deliver some excellent shot values and put a premium on ball striking.

For me the stand out holes were the 2nd, 8th, 13th and 17th. The worst hole is the 16th (with the lake :()!!! )

There have been quite a number of changes to the course over the years, but there are still quite a number of Colt features on the course.

This course is well worth a visit and it was a privilege to visit. Good work with the photos, and bringing the course to the attention of more people.

scott

Neil_Crafter

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (all 18)
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2010, 09:01:37 PM »
Well done Sean!
Another great photo tour. After having visited a couple of heathland courses last week - sadly no chance to play - I have a new appreciation of them. ;D

Gareth Williams

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (all 18)
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2010, 06:44:19 AM »
Once again thanks Sean.  

What are the great relatively unsung Heathland courses I've yet to play?

Camberley, Hankley, Reigate Heath, Liphook, Blackmoor, Copt...

This looks a blast, one of the most photogenic courses (if you ignore the houses), but then who ever listens to their younger brother? ;)





If Adrian reads this perhaps he can persude Marc Haring to make a swansong on this site. I believe he was the Head Greenkeeper when the changes were forced on the course.  I always enjoyed his contributions and it's sad he's given all this up.




Tony

You have to play Hankley.......

Gareth  :)

Sean_A

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (front 9)
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2010, 02:27:57 AM »
Sean,

Once again a great photo tour - and in spite of only 3 replies up to now is a real welcome thread among some of the OT’s out there - looking forward to the second  9.

I was interested on your comment “First, the bunkering is a slop job”.

Can you elaborate?


John

Just look around the course and see how the bunkers differ in their appearance.  I would also say the course has had many newish bunkers which add nothing except difficulty.  There are still a handful of the old bunkers with heather.  At the very least the club should try to blend the old with the new.  

Robin

I think you are right regarding 3 and 12.  Do you spose more mounding was added after Colt?

Jon

Gareth is right.  Swinley's 4th and Camberley's 8th are really totally different holes.  Besides the length difference, Swinley's is really a version of the Redan and Camberley's is a bench green that is rounded off.

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 02:31:08 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

BCrosby

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (all 18)
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2010, 08:06:40 AM »
Sean -

Great stuff. Thanks. There is something so inviting about Colt's designs. He had the courage to understate. Something golf architecture lost along the way.

Bob

James Boon

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (all 18)
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2010, 04:59:17 AM »
Sean,

Thanks for the photo tour. Camberley looks a fine course (apart from the 16th's pond!) and certainly worth checking out.

When your photos disappeared a couple of days ago, I had a look on Google Maps aerial of the course, and so was pretty amazed when you posted the photos of the 18th. Having seen it from above in 2D I just wasn't expecting that!

Cheers,

James
2022 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Reay

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Philip Gawith

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills (all 18)
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2010, 02:27:28 PM »
Thanks Sean - great looking course. Reminds me most of Woking and Swinley. There are some attractive looking 3-shotters. Now i must find out where it is so i can go and play!

Paul_Turner

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2010, 07:37:25 PM »
Sean

Nice review!

That mound behind the 3rd is crazy big, but overall I didn't think the mounding was unique for Colt....Harborne has wild stuff on a few holes.  I haven't seen Prestbury but I think it still has some heavy mounding on a  few holes most notably the 13th ?

Meyrick Park has a lot of big mounds  and Tandridge has some outrageous "tunnels of alpinisation" on 9th and 12th.  Both are really worth checking out and a similar calibre to Camberley.

Par 5s were the standout to me.  Which is unusual for Colt.

Steel redid the 4th.  I can't believe the 6th greenside bunkering.  They were completely redone about 10 years ago with heather faces and now its all gone!  

There now looks to be quite a bodge of bunker styles.  

You can easily spot the Steel bunkers on 4th and fronting the 8th.  Curvy machine style that he's done elsewhere:  Stoke Poges, Tandridge.

 EGD did the modern looking redone bunkers on the 18th.

The 18th green was moved slightly with the new horrible clubhouse.  The owners were (are?) clueless. The buggy paths were (are?) crazy.

Agree that the pond is the worst addition ever to a Colt course.  It used to have a rock with a plastic heron on it, to keep the carp safe!

The bones of the course are gen
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 08:28:42 PM by Paul_Turner »
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John Mayhugh

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2010, 10:27:27 PM »
Another envy-inducing photo tour.  Thanks.

I have to say I was not prepared for the pond on the 16th!

Sean_A

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2010, 03:40:16 AM »
Sean

Nice review!

That mound behind the 3rd is crazy big, but overall I didn't think the mounding was unique for Colt....Harborne has wild stuff on a few holes.  I haven't seen Prestbury but I think it still has some heavy mounding on a  few holes most notably the 13th ?

Meyrick Park has a lot of big mounds  and Tandridge has some outrageous "tunnels of alpinisation" on 9th and 12th.  Both are really worth checking out and a similar calibre to Camberley.

Par 5s were the standout to me.  Which is unusual for Colt.

Steel redid the 4th.  I can't believe the 6th greenside bunkering.  They were completely redone about 10 years ago with heather faces and now its all gone!  

There now looks to be quite a bodge of bunker styles.  

You can easily spot the Steel bunkers on 4th and fronting the 8th.  Curvy machine style that he's done elsewhere:  Stoke Poges, Tandridge.

 EGD did the modern looking redone bunkers on the 18th.

The 18th green was moved slightly with the new horrible clubhouse.  The owners were (are?) clueless. The buggy paths were (are?) crazy.

Agree that the pond is the worst addition ever to a Colt course.  It used to have a rock with a plastic heron on it, to keep the carp safe!

The bones of the course are gen


Paul

To me the mounding is very different between Camberley and Harborne.  Doc Hiseman is probably correct about #s 3 and 12, but check out this difference.  

#10 Camberley


#2 Harborne


#3 Harborne - much more typical of Colt.  


Do you know if Frank Bros built Camberley?

Yes, the 4th looks to me as if the green has been radically changed.  I think it used to be a grade level one sliding front to back with the land.  I suspect the 6th is also different.  I know the two new pots short of the green used to be heathery bunkers.  

The cart paths (possibly worse than the pond especially as Camberley has some of the best drainage of any heathland course - great grade drainage because of the routing), pond, new house and some archie changes came when the Japanese owned the course.  

I was impressed with the great diversity of holes.  I couldn't say the 3s, 4s or 5s particularly stood out as a group.   

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Sean_A

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Re: CAMBERLEY HEATH: More Of Colt's Magic In The Hills
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2012, 04:56:17 AM »
Brian

I am glad you enjoyed the course.  There is something magnetic about practically all Colt courses and Camberley is no different.  I noticed things a bit more than the previous visit due to the slow nature of our round and they did niggle.  For sure I think the aesthetic experience of Camberley could be greatly improved and I think for many this would greatly raise the profile of the course.  I am not sure a better course near London can be had for Camberley's £49 fee.  Less than £50 for quality golf is virtually unheard of around London with its bloated green fees.

I updated the tour - take a look. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 06:22:11 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

PPallotta

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Re: Colt's Cunning: CAMBERLEY HEATH
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2012, 11:49:45 AM »
Thanks as always, Sean. (Increasingly, for me at least, the very best this site has to offer are these profiles).  Yes, it is GOLF. What more could anyone want/expect?

Peter

Jeff_Lewis

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Re: Colt's Cunning CAMBERLEY HEATH
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2012, 01:35:35 PM »
Sean, thank you for the great descriptions and photos.  Hard to believe there any "hidden gems" left, but apparently so. I'll just bang my "Harry Colt for the WGHOF" drum now and be off.

Sean_A

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Re: Colt's Cunning: CAMBERLEY HEATH
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2012, 03:43:43 PM »
Thanks as always, Sean. (Increasingly, for me at least, the very best this site has to offer are these profiles).  Yes, it is GOLF. What more could anyone want/expect?

Peter

Pietro

I seem to connect with you on these matters.  We don't seem to need the best there is, just something thoughtful and a bit attractive.  I recall writing the following about Cavendish and it applies to so much of Colt:

Can golf get any better than this for that price?  Does golf need to be any better than this for any price?

Brian

I guess my highlights are more than one hole if I am to take my words above seriously.  #s 2, 3, 4, 6, 10, 13 and 18 are all fine holes which would grace most any course. 

Thank you Jeff.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

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